Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

[kaz]

how the **** did we get off on this tangent ?

you liberfools keep detracting from the OP intent.

just flat out tell us gun owning patriotic law abiding citizens how you are going to keep guns from the law breakers ?

do that or shut the **** up forever, stop throwing sinker balls.

They have no plan, so they offer red herrings.

 

[Geaux4it]

how the **** did we get off on this tangent ?

you liberfools keep detracting from the OP intent.

just flat out tell us gun owning patriotic law abiding citizens how you are going to keep guns from the law breakers ?

do that or shut the **** up forever, stop throwing sinker balls.

They have no plan, so they offer red herrings.

Oh, the radical, leftist of the Obama nation have a plan....

-Geaux

 

[Mojo2]

Every time there's a shooting, liberals run around saying this proves we need more gun laws. I ask liberals over and over how exactly you are going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals every time you say you want more gun laws.

In particular, address given that drugs are illegal, and yet any parent knows any kid can get as much pot as they want. There are millions of guns in the US, millions more in the world. So don't just say more laws, explain how more laws are going to actually work.

So, there have been 7 shootings killing at least 10 people in the last decade. The only thing you've achieved so far is that no one was shooting back.

Terrific!



I just noticed this thread. It started before I joined, I think.

The numbers of responses it has is astonishing. There's really nothing else of importance for you Gun banners to say, in the final analysis, other than to post your plan as kaz challenged you to.

There IS no plan and yet the so-called "DEBATE" continues.

That's Liberals fer ya!

They never allow facts or reality to easily disturb their fantasy quest for Utopia via the Wrong Road of Shortsightedness and Le Rue De Unintended Consequences.

 

[Geaux4it]

Stop selling bullets.

Go for it. I cast my bullets

-Geaux

 

[TemplarKormac]

The only way I'd spend my bullets... is though the barrel of a gun.

 

[Mojo2]

It just hit me that MAYBE once everything shakes out the RW will have come to terms with the Gay thing and LWers will come to grips with the Constitution. Specifically, in this case, the 2nd Amendment.

 

[Spoonman]

 

[nodoginnafight]

It could apply.

For example. If you live in an apartment complex with heavy traffic right in front of your apartment. There is a huge window in the front of your apartment. The shades are open so all this traffic can see - in plain sight - a pile of guns on your couch. Your door isn't locked. Someone would have to "break" into your house to get those guns technically, but in reality you've dangled a carrot in front of their nose and provided virtually no deterent.

Under my proposal this could meet the gross neglegence standard.

Example 2: You leave your gun laying on the passenger seat of your unlocked car while you run into the store to pick up a gallon of milk.

Example 3: You live with a person who has a criminal record or who is either too young, too mentally incomptent, too emotionally disturbed, to pass a gun purchase background check. You take no provisions to try to deny that person access to your gun.

wow that is a wild way of looking at it. so you have to keep your private property out of the sight of a potential criminal so you don't tempt him to steal it. so I shouldn't park my Porsche in the driveway? I shouldn't wear my rolex watch out in public? what is it with you jokers always making excuses for the criminals?

If a woman wears a provocative dress, then if she gets raped that was her fault, right? Isn't that what nodog is telling us?

Nope - but it might be easier to argue with that strawman than with my REAL position.
Which is: People who own guns have a responsibility to secure their weapon at least to the level of common sense and decent judgement, and gun owners need to show at least a minimal level of respect for the damage that can be inflicted if they fail to do so.

Just be a mature and responsible gun owner. Apparently THAT is just waaaay too much to ask of some people ?????? Well, THOSE are the types of people who I couldn't care less about pissing off.

 

[Bumberclyde]

Stop selling bullets.

If the second protects firearms it by definition protects ammo too.

Sorry, but you might have a right to ammo, but the right for someone else to sell you ammo isn't protected.

 

[Spoonman]

wow that is a wild way of looking at it. so you have to keep your private property out of the sight of a potential criminal so you don't tempt him to steal it. so I shouldn't park my Porsche in the driveway? I shouldn't wear my rolex watch out in public? what is it with you jokers always making excuses for the criminals?

If a woman wears a provocative dress, then if she gets raped that was her fault, right? Isn't that what nodog is telling us?

Nope - but it might be easier to argue with that strawman than with my REAL position.
Which is: People who own guns have a responsibility to secure their weapon at least to the level of common sense and decent judgement, and gun owners need to show at least a minimal level of respect for the damage that can be inflicted if they fail to do so.

Just be a mature and responsible gun owner. Apparently THAT is just waaaay too much to ask of some people ?????? Well, THOSE are the types of people who I couldn't care less about pissing off.

so are women who have breasts required to wear a bra?

 

[Spoonman]

Stop selling bullets.

If the second protects firearms it by definition protects ammo too.

Sorry, but you might have a right to ammo, but the right for someone else to sell you ammo isn't protected.

so we can restrict trade and commerce?

 

[nodoginnafight]

If a woman wears a provocative dress, then if she gets raped that was her fault, right? Isn't that what nodog is telling us?

Nope - but it might be easier to argue with that strawman than with my REAL position.
Which is: People who own guns have a responsibility to secure their weapon at least to the level of common sense and decent judgement, and gun owners need to show at least a minimal level of respect for the damage that can be inflicted if they fail to do so.

Just be a mature and responsible gun owner. Apparently THAT is just waaaay too much to ask of some people ?????? Well, THOSE are the types of people who I couldn't care less about pissing off.

so are women who have breasts required to wear a bra?

Not imho - why? What does that have to do with what I posted? Are their tits about to explode or something? Would the bra protect anyone?

Or is that just the best you could do?

I'll take that as a compliment, you couldn't muster up a real objection.

 

[Mojo2]

Stop selling bullets.

If the second protects firearms it by definition protects ammo too.

Sorry, but you might have a right to ammo, but the right for someone else to sell you ammo isn't protected.

I was making black powder from readily available ingredients from the drug store as a kid.

I can't imagine they could prevent the sale of these ingredients.

Ammo would be possible.

More expensive. Uneven quality if buying from self loaders.

But available.

But before it got to that point there would be some domestic reaction to a direct infringement of the second A.

Possibly affecting the availability of ammo from black market sources.

 

[Bumberclyde]

If the second protects firearms it by definition protects ammo too.

Sorry, but you might have a right to ammo, but the right for someone else to sell you ammo isn't protected.

so we can restrict trade and commerce?

You mean like with nukes and cruise missiles??

 

[Bumberclyde]

If the second protects firearms it by definition protects ammo too.

Sorry, but you might have a right to ammo, but the right for someone else to sell you ammo isn't protected.

I was making black powder from readily available ingredients from the drug store as a kid.

I can't imagine they could prevent the sale of these ingredients.

Ammo would be possible.

More expensive. Uneven quality if buying from self loaders.

But available.

But before it got to that point there would be some domestic reaction to a direct infringement of the second A.

Possibly affecting the availability of ammo from black market sources.

They used to sell the ingredients for meth at the drugstore as well.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Bumberclyde:

IMHO - The right of an individual to own and firearm (and logically the ammo to go along with it) is clearly protected by the Constitution. If you want to change that then you can get your votes together and change it - it's been done before.

But I cannot support an "end-run" around the Constitution.

 

[kaz]

If you live in an apartment complex with heavy traffic right in front of your apartment. There is a huge window in the front of your apartment. The shades are open so all this traffic can see - in plain sight - a pile of guns on your couch. Your door isn't locked. Someone would have to "break" into your house to get those guns technically, but in reality you've dangled a carrot in front of their nose and provided virtually no deterent.

Under my proposal this could meet the gross neglegence standard.

If a woman wears a provocative dress, then if she gets raped that was her fault, right? Isn't that what nodog is telling us?

Nope - but it might be easier to argue with that strawman than with my REAL position.
Which is: People who own guns have a responsibility to secure their weapon at least to the level of common sense and decent judgement, and gun owners need to show at least a minimal level of respect for the damage that can be inflicted if they fail to do so.

That was exactly what you said. You are saying if they aren't discrete, then you are going to hold them accountable. That is exactly like holding a woman accountable for wearing a slutty dress and getting raped.

Criminals are responsible for their own actions.

Just be a mature and responsible gun owner. Apparently THAT is just waaaay too much to ask of some people ?????? Well, THOSE are the types of people who I couldn't care less about pissing off.

And you have no stats about how much of a problem this is. I know lots of gun owners, I am a gun owner, and I know no one who does those things. So how doest this address any more than a tiny piece of the problem?

 

[nodoginnafight]

If a woman wears a provocative dress, then if she gets raped that was her fault, right? Isn't that what nodog is telling us?

Nope - but it might be easier to argue with that strawman than with my REAL position.
Which is: People who own guns have a responsibility to secure their weapon at least to the level of common sense and decent judgement, and gun owners need to show at least a minimal level of respect for the damage that can be inflicted if they fail to do so.

That was exactly what you said.

Just be a mature and responsible gun owner. Apparently THAT is just waaaay too much to ask of some people ?????? Well, THOSE are the types of people who I couldn't care less about pissing off.

And you have no stats about how much of a problem this is. I know lots of gun owners, I am a gun owner, and I know no one who does those things. So how doest this address any more than a tiny piece of the problem?

I know a lot of gun owners too. The vast majority ARE responsible gun owners and (mostly) treat their weapons in the ways I've advocated. But some do not.

I never said this was the ONLY provisions I supported. I have listed others as well - other posters just kept citing this one again and again and I responded to them again and again.

 

[kaz]

Nope - but it might be easier to argue with that strawman than with my REAL position.
Which is: People who own guns have a responsibility to secure their weapon at least to the level of common sense and decent judgement, and gun owners need to show at least a minimal level of respect for the damage that can be inflicted if they fail to do so.

That was exactly what you said.

Just be a mature and responsible gun owner. Apparently THAT is just waaaay too much to ask of some people ?????? Well, THOSE are the types of people who I couldn't care less about pissing off.

And you have no stats about how much of a problem this is. I know lots of gun owners, I am a gun owner, and I know no one who does those things. So how doest this address any more than a tiny piece of the problem?

I know a lot of gun owners too. The vast majority ARE responsible gun owners and (mostly) treat their weapons in the ways I've advocated. But some do not.

I never said this was the ONLY provisions I supported. I have listed others as well - other posters just kept citing this one again and again and I responded to them again and again.

Fair enough on your point that you're responding to this because people bring it up to you. I am drawing a blank as to what your other proposals were though, and I've followed this thread pretty closely as the OP. I don't remember in particular like this anything that addressed any more than a tiny percent of guns. Do you have proposals that address more than just a few outliers like this?

 

[nodoginnafight]

That was exactly what you said.



And you have no stats about how much of a problem this is. I know lots of gun owners, I am a gun owner, and I know no one who does those things. So how doest this address any more than a tiny piece of the problem?

I know a lot of gun owners too. The vast majority ARE responsible gun owners and (mostly) treat their weapons in the ways I've advocated. But some do not.

I never said this was the ONLY provisions I supported. I have listed others as well - other posters just kept citing this one again and again and I responded to them again and again.

Fair enough on your point that you're responding to this because people bring it up to you. I am drawing a blank as to what your other proposals were though, and I've followed this thread pretty closely as the OP. I don't remember in particular like this anything that addressed any more than a tiny percent of guns. Do you have proposals that address more than just a few outliers like this?

Well, this is a very long thread and I wouldn't expect people to be hanging on my every word either - so no sweat. Actually I'm happy to move away from the "be a responsible gun owner" meme because to me it is just so self-evident that I amazed that some folks seem to take such issue with it. But to each their own I suppose.

I also favor background checks for every gun purchase, and real enforcement against shadow buying (Now, exactly how do we put a stop to shadow buyers? I'm not positive - but I'm really open to listening to any ideas about how that can be accomplished.)

I favor putting the enforcement teeth back into the ATF (teeth mostly pulled by the Tiahardt Amendments) that will actually allow enforcement of our existing laws.