Zone1 Just a reminder about the devil.

[ding]

That's quite the intellectual response.

I guess you're not up for an honest discussion. You have become what you hate.

 

[TNHarley]

You don't have to be to answer the question. Your logic is your logic.

The question isnt relevant to me. I am not omniscient. God is. So he would have known before he created them.
I cant possibly know that.
Your dishonest tactic isnt working. Sorry.

 

[ding]

The question isnt relevant to me. I am not omniscient. God is. So he would have known before he created them.
I cant possibly know that.
Your dishonest tactic isnt working. Sorry.

The only one being dishonest here is you. You have become what you hate.

 

[DennisPTate]

He created angels, drespite knowing some would betray him. Thats so weird.
Like who would create their own enemy that wants to destroy the rest of their creation?

You are correct that YHWh knew that Covering Cherub Helel would eventually rebel even from the very moment that Helel was created. Apparently though it did take a long time, perhaps billions of years before Covering Cherub fell and became Satan - the Adversary.


Near death experiencer Kevin L. Zadai was told by Jesus during his forty five minute or so near death experience back in 1992 by Jesus, that in His pre-existant form as YHWH or the Word or Logos Jesus knew that eventually Covering Cherub Helel would rebel. Jesus told Kevin Zadai that eating and eating and eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil in Eden played a huge role in Satan's eventual revolt against heaven.

So as The Tempter was asking Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus the questions and tests of Matthew chapter four Jesus could remember the day that He had created this being who became the Tempter or Satan.

1Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”
4But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”
5Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:
‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’
and,
‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’ ”
7Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’ ”
8Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”
10Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ”
11Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him.
Jesus Begins His Galilean Ministry
12Now when Jesus heard that John had been put in prison, He departed to Galilee. 13And leaving Nazareth, He came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is by the sea, in the regions of Zebulun and Naphtali, 14that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying:
15“The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali,
By the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan,
Galilee of the Gentiles:
16The people who sat in darkness have seen a great light,
And upon those who sat in the region and shadow of death
Light has dawned.”
17From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Matthew 4 | NKJV Bible | YouVersion

Satan Tempts JesusThen #Matt. 4:1–11; Mark 1:12; Luke 4:1Jesus was led up by #Ezek. 3:14; Acts 8:39the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And when He had fasted forty days an

www.bible.com

 

[TNHarley]

The only one being dishonest here is you. You have become what you hate.

 

[ding]

You're like a child throwing temper tantrums when you don't get your way.

 

[DennisPTate]

Are you suggesting you wouldn't have any kids because one of them might turn out bad? Because that's the logic you are employing here.

It's called free will. Would you have rather have been created as a drone? It's not virtuous if one is forced to virtuous. One must choose virtue of their own free will for virtue to have any value.

But to answer your question directly, you don't have perfect information. None of us do. So the traditional Christian answer to your question is that... with infinite power God could always create something different. But with infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world "in a state of journeying" towards its ultimate perfection. In God's plan this process of becoming involves the appearance of certain beings and the disappearance of others, the existence of the more perfect alongside the less perfect, both constructive and destructive forces of nature. With physical good there exists also physical evil as long as creation has not reached perfection. For almighty God. . ., because he is supremely good, would never allow any evil whatsoever to exist in his works if he were not so all-powerful and good as to cause good to emerge from evil itself.

In my opinion the name "Azazel" in Leviticus chapter sixteen in the original Hebrew hints that perhaps Azazel, king of the 208 or so Watchers, [sons of G-d], who fell because of the daughters of men, according to the Book of Enoch that is quoted in the Bible, may become somewhat like General Abner or the Apostle Paul and may be a major leader in a Revolt in Hell, against Satan, as a return toward the Creator begins perhaps even in the fallen angelic and fallen Watcher realms?

I cannot believe that YHWH would put the name Azazel into Leviticus chapter sixteen without a good and positive reason to do so.

The Lord spoke to Moses, after the death of the two sons of Aaron, when they drew near before the Lord and died; 2;and the Lord said to Moses, “Tell Aaron your brother not to come at all times into the holy place within the veil, before the mercy seat which is upon the ark, lest he die; for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat. 3;But thus shall Aaron come into the holy place: with a young bull for a sin offering and a ram for a burnt offering. 4;He shall put on the holy linen coat, and shall have the linen breeches on his body, be girded with the linen girdle, and wear the linen turban; these are the holy garments. He shall bathe his body in water, and then put them on. 5;And he shall take from the congregation of the people of Israel two male goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering.

6;“And Aaron shall offer the bull as a sin offering for himself, and shall make atonement for himself and for his house. 7;Then he shall take the two goats, and set them before the Lord at the door of the tent of meeting; 8;and Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats, one lot for the Lord and the other lot for Aza′zel. 9;And Aaron shall present the goat on which the lot fell for the Lord, and offer it as a sin offering; 10;but the goat on which the lot fell for Aza′zel shall be presented alive before the Lord to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness to Aza′zel.

11;“Aaron shall present the bull as a sin offering for himself, and shall make atonement for himself and for his house; he shall kill the bull as a sin offering for himself. 12;And he shall take a censer full of coals of fire from the altar before the Lord, and two handfuls of sweet incense beaten small; and he shall bring it within the veil 13;and put the incense on the fire before the Lord, that the cloud of the incense may cover the mercy seat which is upon the testimony, lest he die; 14;and he shall take some of the blood of the bull, and sprinkle it with his finger on the front of the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat he shall sprinkle the blood with his finger seven times.

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 16 - Revised Standard Version

The Day of Atonement - The LORD spoke to Moses, after the death of the two sons of Aaron, when they drew near before the LORD and died; and the LORD said to Moses, “Tell Aaron your brother not to come at all times into the holy place within the veil, before the mercy seat which is upon the ark...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[TNHarley]

You're like a child throwing temper tantrums when you don't get your way.

So I am going to assume your only answer is god created the devil because good would come from evil. lol
Ok!

 

[ding]

So I am going to assume your only answer is god created the devil because good would come from evil. lol
Ok!

Or you could read what I wrote. Which you have yet to refute with anything more than an emoji.

With infinite power God could always create something different. But with infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world "in a state of journeying" towards its ultimate perfection. In God's plan this process of becoming involves the appearance of certain beings and the disappearance of others, the existence of the more perfect alongside the less perfect, both constructive and destructive forces of nature. With physical good there exists also physical evil as long as creation has not reached perfection. For almighty God. . ., because he is supremely good, would never allow any evil whatsoever to exist in his works if he were not so all-powerful and good as to cause good to emerge from evil itself.

 

[TNHarley]

Or you could read what I wrote. Which you have yet to refute with anything more than an emoji.

With infinite power God could always create something different. But with infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world "in a state of journeying" towards its ultimate perfection. In God's plan this process of becoming involves the appearance of certain beings and the disappearance of others, the existence of the more perfect alongside the less perfect, both constructive and destructive forces of nature. With physical good there exists also physical evil as long as creation has not reached perfection. For almighty God. . ., because he is supremely good, would never allow any evil whatsoever to exist in his works if he were not so all-powerful and good as to cause good to emerge from evil itself.

After all these years, god still hasnt got it right. Omniscient. LOL

 

[ding]

After all these years, god still hasnt got it right. Omniscient. LOL

Your external locus of control is off the chart but you still haven't refuted it.

 

[TNHarley]

Your external locus of control is off the chart but you still haven't refuted it.

Is that not basically what you said?

 

[ding]

Is that not basically what you said?

Correct. God isn't pushing buttons, pulling levers or turning dials. He doesn't need to. Glad you admit you aren't refuting it.

 

[TNHarley]

Correct. God isn't pushing buttons, pulling levers or turning dials. He doesn't need to. Glad you admit you aren't refuting it.

Refute what? I accept what you said. It just makes your god look like a loser, though.

 

[ding]

Refute what? I accept what you said.

I know. I win.

It just makes your god look like a loser, though.

I don't see how. The ultimate external locus of control is blaming God for man's failures.

 

[TNHarley]

I know. I win.

I don't see how. The ultimate external locus of control is blaming God for man's failures.

As usual, you misrepresent my argument. But thats ok. Im used to it.

 

[ding]

As usual, you misrepresent my argument. But thats ok. Im used to it.

Your argument is that God isn't good or doesn't exist unless everything is perfect. My response to that is that is idiotic logic.

 

[TNHarley]

Your argument is that God isn't good or doesn't exist unless everything is perfect. My response to that is that is idiotic logic.

As I said... thats not my argument. My argument is the great omniscient one is a failure.

 

[ding]

As I said... thats not my argument. My argument is the great omniscient one is a failure.

Same difference. Also idiotic logic.

 

[TNHarley]

Same difference. Also idiotic logic.

You agreed with me. You are just probably too narcissistic to realize it.