Judge Throws Out England's Guilty Plea

[Yurt]

Whoa, this is going to be good.

FORT HOOD, Texas - A military judge Wednesday threw out Pfc. Lynndie England's guilty plea to abusing Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib prison, saying he was not convinced the Army reservist who appeared in some of the most notorious photos in the scandal knew her actions were wrong at the time.

The mistrial marks a stunning turn in the case and sends it back to square one.

The case will be reviewed again by Fort Hood's commander, Lt. Gen. Thomas Metz, who will decide what charges, if any, England should face. If she is charged, the case would go back to a military equivalent of a grand jury hearing, an Article 32 proceeding, prosecution spokesman Capt. Cullen Sheppard said.

The military judge, Col. James Pohl, entered a plea of not guilty for England on a charge of conspiring with Pvt. Charles Graner Jr. to maltreat detainees at the Baghdad-area prison and a related charge.

The mistrial came after Graner, the reputed ringleader of the abuse, testified as a defense witness at England's sentencing hearing that pictures he took of England holding a naked prisoner on a leash at Abu Ghraib were meant to be used as a legitimate training aid for other guards

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I am very interested in this story. I have to admit, I agree with the judge.

 

[dmp]

I think I agree with that...I mean, I could see how a newbie private, without adequate guidlines could assume her conduct was 'just how epw's are treated'...sorta...still..borderline.

 

[Mr. P]

I love it...NO way should this girl serve time nor be punished for what she did..(or didn't do).

 

[5stringJeff]

I don't know... it's not like people don't know it's wrong to pose with pictures of naked prisoners. While she may have been obeying orders, all of you ex-military types know that it's still not morally or ethically correct to obey an unlawful order. Therefore, while her punishment may be reduced, PFC England is not innocent.

 

[Yurt]

Do all military personnel get handbooks that detail they should not pose nude with POWs?

 

[freeandfun1]

I don't know... it's not like people don't know it's wrong to pose with pictures of naked prisoners. While she may have been obeying orders, all of you ex-military types know that it's still not morally or ethically correct to obey an unlawful order. Therefore, while her punishment may be reduced, PFC England is not innocent.

Agreed. But....

It is obvious there was a total breakdown in the chain of command within this unit and therefore, if anybody should be held accountable, in my opinion, it should be the platoon leaders, company commanders, battalion commanders and the brigade commander. She was get'n boned by her immediate supervisor. We all know that in a small unit like that, it had to be known and nothing was done about it. That is just one example of the total breakdown of the CoC in my humble opinion.

 

[freeandfun1]

Do all military personnel get handbooks that detail they should not pose nude with POWs?

No, but they are taught how to handle POW's. Plus, this was an MP unit.... even more the reason they should know

 

[Mr. P]

I don't know... it's not like people don't know it's wrong to pose with pictures of naked prisoners. While she may have been obeying orders, all of you ex-military types know that it's still not morally or ethically correct to obey an unlawful order. Therefore, while her punishment may be reduced, PFC England is not innocent.

She's guilty alright, guilty of being a dumb ass...But as far as I'm concerned she committed no crime..hell I went through POW training much worse that what these folks did, and all right here in the USA...Slap her hand and Let the girl go.

 

[5stringJeff]

Agreed. But....

It is obvious there was a total breakdown in the chain of command within this unit and therefore, if anybody should be held accountable, in my opinion, it should be the platoon leaders, company commanders, battalion commanders and the brigade commander. She was get'n boned by her immediate supervisor. We all know that in a small unit like that, it had to be known and nothing was done about it. That is just one example of the total breakdown of the CoC in my humble opinion.

I agree 100%.

I also think that there are some corrupt MP units out there.

 

[5stringJeff]

She's guilty alright, guilty of being a dumb ass...But as far as I'm concerned she committed no crime..hell I went through POW training much worse that what these folks did, and all right here in the USA...Slap her hand and Let the girl go.

I'm pretty sure what she did was a crime... but freeandfun's point is well taken - the whole chain of command should be on trial here.

 

[freeandfun1]

I agree 100%.

I also think that there are some corrupt MP units out there.

It seemed like every duty station I ever served at, at some point corruption was uncovered in the MP units. I know when I was at Ft. Stewart, the infantry grunts were buying all their drugs from MPs. Yes, there are some corrupt MP units out there.... mirrors the civilian world in many ways.

 

[Mr. P]

I'm pretty sure what she did was a crime... but freeandfun's point is well taken - the whole chain of command should be on trial here.

If anyone should be...yes I agree..I missed that post before I posted..
Still..I don't see a "crime" here.

 

[freeandfun1]

If anyone should be...yes I agree..I missed that post before I posted..
Still..I don't see a "crime" here.

Ignorance of the "law" is no excuse. She was wrong, but as I mentioned, a case could more easily be made against the CofC. In my opinion, she shoulda received an article 15.

 

[Mr. P]

Ignorance of the "law" is no excuse. She was wrong, but as I mentioned, a case could more easily be made against the CofC. In my opinion, she shoulda received an article 15.

Exactly, a slap on the hand.

Now, What law guys..I really want to know..I'm coming at this from a different angle I guess..
See they really beat the crap out of us in training. That was okay, but to humiliate the ENEMY is a crime?
See where I'm comin from.

 

[freeandfun1]

Exactly, a slap on the hand.

Now, What law guys..I really want to know..I'm coming at this from a different angle I guess...

See they really beat the crap out of us in training. That was okay, but to humiliate the ENEMY is a crime?

See where I'm comin from.

No, I don't. I assume that you went through SEER and in SEER, the entire point is that you are treated like you will likely be treated if captured not how all prisoners are treated. Remember, we are held to a higher standard - as we should be. We are supposed to be "the good guys".

Now, having said that, if the Army wanted to use SpecOps or interrogators to beat the shit out of them or humiliate them, fine - just do it where nobody can see. These troopers were taking matters into their own hands and going beyond what, I believe, was expected of them.

 

[Mr. P]

No, I don't. I assume that you went through SEER and in SEER, the entire point is that you are treated like you will likely be treated if captured not how all prisoners are treated.....

Now, having said that, if the Army wanted to use SpecOps or interrogators to beat the shit out of them or humiliate them, fine - just do it where nobody can see. These troopers were taking matters into their own hands and going beyond what, I believe, was expected of them.

No not SEER..what I went through was shut down..I wonder why?

Anyway..what law was broken?

 

[archangel]

Ignorance of the "law" is no excuse. She was wrong, but as I mentioned, a case could more easily be made against the CofC. In my opinion, she shoulda received an article 15.

This girl is obviously mentally challenged..probably met the minimum standards for military service..I agree a article 15 would be the proper charge!