Judge Bans Use Of “Illegal” and “Aliens”

[Grismonda]

I will however, say that I will never again go to a bullfight. I see nothing "heroric" about it. .

Yes, better to just take out a hunting rifle and shoot it dead on the spot! Now that is heroic!

(of course I'm being facetious...for those who haven't "guessed")

 

[Againsheila]

Yes, better to just take out a hunting rifle and shoot it dead on the spot! Now that is heroic!

(of course I'm being facetious...for those who haven't "guessed")

For those that don't know, the Bullfight is started by a bunch of men on horses with long spears. They throw the spears at the bull, when he gets weaker, then men come out with these dart like things and run passed him, shoving those long darts into him. Then, after he's bled enough, and gotten weak enough, only then does the matador come out with his red cape.

To me, it's just torturing the bull to death.

Yeah, the matador is taking a chance, but only if the other guys didn't do their jobs right and someone made the wrong call on how weak the bull was.

BTW, I was cheering for the Bull.

 

[sky dancer]

No. I am, however, someone who isn't going to buy your liberal line of psychobabble bull shit. You sneak into this country, you break our laws, you're a criminal, that makes you illegal. You weren't born here, that makes you an alien. Put the two together and you get illegal alien. Sorry your brain is too full of hippie kool aide to understand that.

And I have no hate of Mexicans at all. None what so ever. I happen to like hispanics and the Mexican culture, their food, their music, and I like to vacation in Mexico. It's the ACTION of SNEAKING INTO MY COUNTRY that I despise, and it's got NOTHING to do with ones nationality.

The issue is using the term 'illegals' as a noun to describe the personhood of human beings. I agree that some folks who enter the US without our governments knowledge and consent are considered undocumented or illegal immigrants.

Do you understand the difference between an adjective like 'illegal' and the improper use of the adjective 'illegal' in a sentence as a noun like 'illegals'?

If we are going to demand that our citizens and citizen candidates speak english we ought to be more concerned that our judges use proper english in the courtroom.

 

[Againsheila]

The issue is using the term 'illegals' as a noun to describe the personhood of human beings. I agree that some folks who enter the US without our governments knowledge and consent are considered undocumented or illegal immigrants.

Do you understand the difference between an adjective like 'illegal' and the improper use of the adjective 'illegal' in a sentence as a noun like 'illegals'?

If we are going to demand that our citizens and citizen candidates speak english we ought to be more concerned that our judges use proper english in the courtroom.

Actually, I don't think that was the issue at all. The judge wants to ban the word illegal AND the word alien to discribe illegal aliens. All in an effort to make it "non-biased". Like I said before, calling an illegal alien and undocumented worker is like calling a burglar an uninvited houseguest.

 

[Grismonda]

The issue is using the term 'illegals' as a noun to describe the personhood of human beings. I agree that some folks who enter the US without our governments knowledge and consent are considered undocumented or illegal immigrants.

Do you understand the difference between an adjective like 'illegal' and the improper use of the adjective 'illegal' in a sentence as a noun like 'illegals'?

If we are going to demand that our citizens and citizen candidates speak english we ought to be more concerned that our judges use proper english in the courtroom.

Honey, we are living in an age when Palin wants to write a book...do you really think you stand a chance explaining to some the proper use of an adjective?

If she would actually write it herself (and not have her creation audited), it should be hilarious.

Not even Bush could demolish the English language the way she does.

 

[catzmeow]

You posted something that you claimed showed that residing or working in the USA as an undocumented person was a felony. It showed nothing of the sort. If you don't wish to prove your assertion it matters not to me.

I never made that claim. Re-read the post. It was at the specific request of someone who suggested that being here illegally is not a crime. It is, in fact, a criminal offense (misdemeanor), punishable by up to 6 months in jail. Learn to read.

 

[catzmeow]

The issue is using the term 'illegals' as a noun to describe the personhood of human beings.

It doesn't describe their personhood. It describes their status in this country as a result of their concerted attempt to subvert American immigration laws. Whitewashing that status with terms like undocumented will not change the fact that they are illegal.

Furthermore, in the cases in question, the term illegal is used in reference to someone who is charged WITH OTHER OFFENSES. So, not only is their immigration status criminal, they have also preyed on Americans in other ways.

 

[sky dancer]

Changing the terminology won't change the fact that the immigrants have entered the US illegally. It makes sense to use approriate english--proper use of adjectives and nouns-- in court.

Since the Hispanic Lawyers and the Hispanic Journalists and Latino civil rights organizations have requested the change in terminology, I see no harm in respecting their wishes.

It all depends on whether you want to use inflammatory language or not. I'd rather not, myself.

 

[Againsheila]

Changing the terminology won't change the fact that the immigrants have entered the US illegally. It makes sense to use approriate english--proper use of adjectives and nouns-- in court.

Since the Hispanic Lawyers and the Hispanic Journalists and Latino civil rights organizations request the change in terminology, I see no harm in respecting their wishes.

Strange, only the hispanics are requesting this. Perhaps the immigrants from Germany, Thailand, Japan, Korea, and other places object to the illegal aliens being called immigrants?

I know I would, and I know my sister in law from Thailand does and I know my cousin in law from Germany does. They consider it an insult.

Why would you want to pacify illegal aliens and the cost of insulting legal immigrants?

 

[dilloduck]

Changing the terminology won't change the fact that the immigrants have entered the US illegally. It makes sense to use approriate english--proper use of adjectives and nouns-- in court.

Since the Hispanic Lawyers and the Hispanic Journalists and Latino civil rights organizations have requested the change in terminology, I see no harm in respecting their wishes.

It all depends on whether you want to use inflammatory language or not. I'd rather not, myself.

I guess we would have to exclude other word too then --felon, sex offender etc etc ?

 

[sky dancer]

Strange, only the hispanics are requesting this. Perhaps the immigrants from Germany, Thailand, Japan, Korea, and other places object to the illegal aliens being called immigrants?

I know I would, and I know my sister in law from Thailand does and I know my cousin in law from Germany does. They consider it an insult.

Why would you want to pacify illegal aliens and the cost of insulting legal immigrants?

The Hispanics are requesting this in part because anti-latino racist increased.

 

[dilloduck]

The Hispanics are requesting this in part because anti-latino racist increased.

Shocking-- I wonder why ?

 

[sky dancer]

I guess we would have to exclude other word too then --felon, sex offender etc etc ?

No. I didn't say that. Felons and sex offenders are nouns--not adjectives like 'illegal'.

 

[sky dancer]

Shocking-- I wonder why ?

You do understand that American citizens who are brown skinned and Hispanic are being targeted? Doesn't that concern you?

"Although the overall number of reported hate crime incidents remained steady from 2006 to 2007, of particular note in the 2007 statistics are continued increases in reported violent attacks against persons of Hispanic origin and lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) persons. According to the new FBI report, there were 595 incidents of anti-Hispanic hate crimes in 2007, an increase of 3.3% from the 576 incidents reported in 2006. There was also a rise in the number of hate crimes motivated by sexual orientation bias, with a 5.5% increase in incidents from 2006 to 2007 (from 1195 to 1265 incidents).

This confirms trends reported in Human Rights First's 2008 Hate Crime Survey. Anti-Hispanic violence rose by 35 percent between 2003 and 2006, according to an analysis conducted by the Southern Poverty Law Center of FBI crime reports; anti-Hispanic incidents rose in 2007 in both the State of California and Los Angeles County, according to official statistics. The violence targets both U.S. citizens and foreigners, and both legal and illegal immigrants, and has taken place amidst recent mainstreaming of anti-immigrant rhetoric and fears. Many incidents appear to target those perceived to be or provide assistance to illegal immigrants."

http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/media/ij/2007/alert/354/

 

[Againsheila]

No. I didn't say that. Felons and sex offenders are nouns--not adjectives like 'illegal'.

felony is also an adjective. Felony conviction. See? Anyone can play with semantics.

Offender is the noun, sex is the adjective.

Now tell me, why do you want to pacify illegal aliens at the cost of insulting legal immigrants?

 

[sky dancer]

felony is also an adjective. Felony conviction. See? Anyone can play with semantics.

Offender is the noun, sex is the adjective.

Now tell me, why do you want to pacify illegal aliens at the cost of insulting legal immigrants?

Nope. Look up the word 'felon' in the dictionary. It is a noun meaning criminal.

I want to respect the wishes of Hispanic-American citizens who object to the use of the term.

Why are you unconcerned about insulting other American citizens? Only care about your relatives?

Latinos care just as much about their relatives as you do about yours.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No. I didn't say that. Felons and sex offenders are nouns--not adjectives like 'illegal'.

Talk about your hairsplitting. "It's not about people being offended by a completely accurate reference to their behavior. It's about nouns versus adjectives!"

In case you missed it, the word "alien" is also a noun, and the judge in question banned THAT, too.

 

[catzmeow]

Talk about your hairsplitting. "It's not about people being offended by a completely accurate reference to their behavior. It's about nouns versus adjectives!"

In case you missed it, the word "alien" is also a noun, and the judge in question banned THAT, too.

Furthermore, these terms AREN'T used to refer to American Hispanics aka Latinos, so WHY DO THEY HAVE A SAY IN WHAT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE CALLED?

oh, wait. Because they are the DEFENSE ATTORNEYS for illegal aliens convicted of crimes in the U.S., and they want to remove yet another stigma from their client (that of being a criminal, already, who disrespects the laws here). That is the context in which these attorneys are arguing that the phrase illegal aliens should not be used...to refer to offenders IN COURT.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Nope. Look up the word 'felon' in the dictionary. It is a noun meaning criminal.

I want to respect the wishes of Hispanic-American citizens who object to the use of the term.

Why are you unconcerned about insulting other American citizens? Only care about your relatives?

Latinos care just as much about their relatives as you do about yours.

She didn't say "felon". She said "felony", which in the phrase "felony offender" is an adjective.

Why would any "Hispanic-American" object to the term "illegal alien" or find it offensive? THEY are neither illegal nor aliens.

And by the way, I wouldn't make the mistake of thinking that a bunch of lawyers trying to get their scumbag clients off and a bunch of bleeding heart lefties represent the "Hispanic community". I live in Tucson, surrounded by Mexicans - hey, it's Arizona, they aren't likely to be Cubans, okay? - and "illegal alien" is probably the nicest and cleanest thing THEY call those people.

Any "Latino" whose relatives are here illegally and who actually defends that sort of behavior has just lost any claim on me giving a rat's ass if he's offended or not.

 

[sky dancer]

Talk about your hairsplitting. "It's not about people being offended by a completely accurate reference to their behavior. It's about nouns versus adjectives!"

In case you missed it, the word "alien" is also a noun, and the judge in question banned THAT, too.

I object less to the term alien than I do 'illegals'. The term 'alien' at least appears in immigration legislation.

The OP stresses a point about what is appropriate terminology to use in court to not appear to be demonstrating judical bias.

I comment on the general use of the terms as well as the point in the OP. Here is a resource:
http://www.wecanstopthehate.org/

This links to a pdf on 'Code Words of Hate'
http://www.wecanstopthehate.org/uploads/FS-CodeWordsDebate-FNL.pdf