John Kelly calls Robert E. Lee an "honorable man"

[g5000]

After lying about an African American Congresswoman, John Kelly called the pro- slavery man in charge of trying to break up the USA an "honorable man".

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Gen. GreedHead Grant

The South had slavery, the North had sweatshops.

You sound like a commie.

 

[g5000]

I don't know why these lovers of racist Confederates who sound more and more like socialists and commies every day don't go back to the Democratic Party whence their political ancestors came.

I really don't.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

If you are judging Lee by the standards of today he's not if you are judging him by the standards of the time he lived in he is. Trying to judge people who lived 150 to 200 years ago by todays standards is pretty dumb.

Decade After Decadent Decade, Generation After Degenerate Generation

Saving civilization from African-jungle savagery is a virtue for all time. You've been suckered into your "standards change over the years" meme, which is preached by both twin sides. Don't listen to any pompous pundit from that history-challenged bipartisan ruling clique. History will judge them all harshly.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

racism is not exclusively southern. much the northeast is racist. philly and bawztun are racist as shit.

Being racist and fighting a civil war in defense of it are really not the same. The South was fierce about their supremacy.

What sparks a war is rarely what the war is actually about.


The vast majority of the South were not fighting for slaves or racism.

Let me guess, the war was about an industrial economy v. agrarian? Thomas Pynchon made fun of that historical ? very well.

War was about a lot of things. Mostly nationalism imo opinion. On both sides.


Or do you believe that hundreds of thousands of northern whites were willing to die for the black man?

Each side, in fact different sides, were fighting for differing reasons. The South fired on Fort Sumter, so the men in the North were inflamed. Not just by Lincoln, by many Northern politicians. Slavery WAS an issue, Northern employers made sure to harp on the freedom of underpaid, overworked, WAGE SLAVES with no safety protections, read Mill Child one day. .

Self-Righteous Snob-Mob Scum

Only 3% of the Abolitionist hypocrites went on to support the rising labor movement, which was a threat to their pampered clique. As with modern Liberals, this proved that the born-rich hate, fear, and want to exclude all other White people. Lincoln married a rich girl; that's why he took their side and sent his own people to get slaughtered in order to save the ancestors of our gangbanging mooching misfits.

Henry Ward Beecher, a prominent Abo whose sister wrote Uncle Tom's Cabin, said this about the White working class's demands for a human level of wages, "If a man can't live on bread and water, he doesn't deserve to live."

 

[Correll]

There is nothing outlandish about my father serving in WWII..

Other than the fact that he didn't, and you're just making this shit up so you can lend yourself much-needed credibility that doesn't exist on the facts. What a fucking loser. Imagine being so insecure you have to invent given circumstances just to make your argument credible. What a disappointment.

My point did not require additional credibility beyond the fact that your hatred of the Confederacy is WAY out of proportion for something that happened before your grandfather was born.

You are pretending outrage over this to justify what a dick you are to those who disagree with you on this historical issue.

Because people like you, are using this shit to wage the Culture War TODAY.

By accurately recalling historical facts? Robert E. Lee was a traitor. Robert E. Lee was also a loser. So what "history" am I missing there?[/QUOTE]


Pretty much all of it. You are a liar and an anti-American asshole.

The history I learned in a norther public school was that Lee was a national war hero, who fought for his home state and lost.

Bullshit. First of all, I doubt you're even an American...as your posts continue to grow less and less articulate, become more and more rife with grammar and spelling errors, and appear as if they were put through an internet translator. Only a Russian would be this inarticulate on the internet...rightly so because English isn't your first language. All you're doing is Putin's directive to divide Americans with bullshit propaganda. You're no American. You're a rat.[/QUOTE]


You dishonest idiocy is noted, and dismissed.


My point stands.


The history I learned in a norther public school was that Lee was a national war hero, who fought for his home state and lost.

Not sure what you are referring to, but I am comfortable assuming you are lying.

I'm referring to you pretending your father fought in WWII just so you can make a shitty point about Robert E. Lee. And what was that point again? We won WWII (not you, becuase your father fought for the Wehrmacht). Robert E. Lee lost the Civil War. So how are they the same? They're not. You're just using a Russian Active Measure to sow division. If none of these statues matter, then tear them the fuck down. Are you going to forget who lost the Civil War if we take down statues of Confederate traitors?[/QUOTE]


The point was about your hatred being way too strong for something that happened before your grandfather was born.

You are the divisive one here, spreading hatred and trying to turn Americans against each other.

I never said the statues didn't matter.

THe rest of your idiocy is noted and dismissed. Try to be less of a lying asshole.

ANd my point about you doing all you can to avoid serious and honest discuss stands.

It's impossible to have an honest discussion with you because you just lie about yourself to cover your tracks, and to make up for your credibility gap. You invent imaginary people. You invent imaginary credentials. You make up a load of unverifiable bullshit that you use to lend your argument credibility it doesn't otherwise have on the facts.

Putin would be very disappointed with you.[/QUOTE]




It is absurd for you to pretend that it is not believable that my father served in WWII.


Your hysterics and overly dramatic assertions aside, all you are doing it making excuses for your inability to make any point, without basing it on some form of logical fallacy.

Also, you are an asshole. FUck you.

 

[Correll]

You're losing focus. My judgement of that one post was that is was incredibly idiotic.

Your judgment is bullshit. You have poor judgment. After all, you support a Russian puppet. That's the worst fuckin' judgment since you supported invading Iraq.

Your Red Baiting is noted and laughed at.


YOu are a pathetic loser.

 

[Correll]

Slavery was not Lee's motivation, that was clear.

Of fucking course it was! How do you think he became a rich man? By exploiting free labor (aka slavery).

So, you got anything to support your claim that he was motivated by money in his decision to turn down command of the Union army and instead take command of the Army of Virginia?


lol!!!

That was a joke, I know that supporting your arguments is not for you. YOu are just a partisan hack who just says shit.

 

[Correll]

You lefties care. THat's why you keep insisting that the Civil War was about nothing BUT slavery..

Everything about the Civil War has slavery as the common denominator.

States' Rights...to own slaves
The economics...of slave-based economies

Fact is that without free labor, most all those plantation owners in the South wouldn't have been rich (Including Lee). So it was in their economic interests to preserve slavery because that's how they got their wealth. They were also a bunch of overt racists too who thought black people were born to be chattel. Many Conservatives still hold that view today. Like the owner of the Houston Texans who referred to his players as "inmates".

Nothing in your post supported your claim.


Your additional race baiting is noted and held against you.


You are a race baiting asshole. Fuck you.

So that you can vilify them, and thus any of their descendants that are not wallowing in guilt.

No, their decendents aren't wallowing in guilt, they're walloing in insecurity. Because they've been losers their entire lives they have to "win" something...that means selling out your principles to defend the memory of traitors, and to align yourself with Russia just so you can vicariously "win" something through Trump.

You're a loser and you'll always be a loser.[/QUOTE]



Trump won based on his Trade and Immigration policies.


Wanting better jobs and wages is a pretty normal voter interest.


That this offends you, is just you being an asshole.


So, fuck off and die, piece of shit.

 

[The Derp]

My point did not require additional credibility beyond the fact that your hatred of the Confederacy is WAY out of proportion for something that happened before your grandfather was born.You are pretending outrage over this to justify what a dick you are to those who disagree with you on this historical issue.

My hatred of traitors is just as strong now as it would have been 150 years ago. Confederates were traitors and anyone celebrating them are traitors too. And once again, you whine like a little bitch that I'm being mean to you by shutting down you shitty arguments. How about you get the fuck over yourself? Why is that not an option here? Are you not capable of that? You don't seem very capable of much.

Pretty much all of it. You are a liar and an anti-American asshole.

Robert E. Lee was anti-American. That's why he's a traitor. Did the South not lose the Civil War? What history am I missing? The South seceded, lost, and 150 years later the inbred descendants of traitors are arguing that being a traitor is a good thing. LOL.

You dishonest idiocy is noted, and dismissed.My point stands.The history I learned in a norther public school was that Lee was a national war hero, who fought for his home state and lost.

LOL! Now I know you're a Russian troll for sure. Lee fought to keep slaves because that's how he got rich. Maybe he was a racist, maybe he wasn't. One thing's for sure; he didn't have a problem with slavery. He wasn't fighting "for Virginia" he was fighting "for Virginia to keep slaves".

The point was about your hatred being way too strong for something that happened before your grandfather was born.

I'll remember this the next time one of you shitheads starts whining about Jesus and the Bible. To have such strong emotions for a guy who lived 2000 years ago doesn't seem justifiable to me. Why get so uppity about it? Hmmm?

You are the divisive one here, spreading hatred and trying to turn Americans against each other.

Ah, the "I'm rubber, you're glue" argument. A staple among inexperienced internet trolls. Spreading hate is your full time job. It's what Putin contracted you to do.

It is absurd for you to pretend that it is not believable that my father served in WWII.

I find the whole thing suspicious. Why would you invoke something you know you cannot prove on the internet message boards? Simple; to lend your shitty argument credibility it doesn't have.

Your hysterics and overly dramatic assertions aside, all you are doing it making excuses for your inability to make any point, without basing it on some form of logical fallacy.Also, you are an asshole. FUck you.

Now you're just spitting out random words in no particular order, in the hopes it'll fatigue the conversation and I'll just give up. Guess what? I won't.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Lee was an honorable man born on the wrong side of history. He was a slave owner, but he was admittedly against abusing slaves. He in fact freed all the slaves he inherited from his father-in-law. While he wasn’t against slavery he was an ideology in favor of it.

Slavery is how he maintained and grew his wealth. You get rich real quick when you don't have to pay labor. Whether or not he was a racist doesn't matter; he exploited slaves in order to enrich himself personally.

No honor there.

/——/ you aren’t well read. Believe what you want but here is some data. I doubt you’ll do more than scan it. Plantation owners were land rich but not necessarily cash rich. Their problem was the lack of a labor force that slavery solved: Measuring Worth - Measuring the Value of a Slave

 

[The Derp]

So, you got anything to support your claim that he was motivated by money in his decision to turn down command of the Union army and instead take command of the Army of Virginia?

Ummm, other than the fact that he personally profited off slavery?

 

[NYcarbineer]

I think there needs to be a poll once and for all of these USMB rightwingers...

...were the Southern Democrats of the Civil War era a. evil racists, or, b. honorable men?

 

[Votto]

Now did she call him an honorable man or a wonderful man?

 

[The Derp]

Nothing in your post supported your claim.

You're the ones who make the argument about economics of pre-Civil War America. You're the ones who say it wasn't fair and that Southern plantation owners should be allowed to have slaves in order to compete economically with the industrial north. So it's not my claim that there was an economic issue at the heart of it...that's your claim. How exactly am I "race-baiting"? Explain. I think you just vomited out that phrase because you had nothing intelligent to say.

Trump won based on his Trade and Immigration policies.

No, he won because Russian propagandists were successful in manipulating weak-minded Conservatives in three key states; WI, MI, PA. That's why y'all directed most of your Russian trolling efforts in the final two weeks of the campaign specifically to those on Facebook and Twitter in those states. Trump didn't have a trade policy. He didn't have a real Immigration policy either. He just had rhetoric and nonsense. BTW - how are those NAFTA negotiations going?

Wanting better jobs and wages is a pretty normal voter interest.

Too bad Conservatives don't want any of that. Conservatives want wages competitive with the rest of the world...which means US workers take a pay cut so that they can compete with workers in Third World Countries. That's why Conservatives want to abolish the minimum wage...they want American workers to have the same living standards as those in China, where Trump makes his products. Conservatives have absolutely no idea how to create jobs. The last Conservative President we had, Bush the Dumber, ended up losing net private sector jobs...~460,000 from 2001-2009.

That this offends you, is just you being an asshole.So, fuck off and die, piece of shit.

What offends me is that you feel you have to make up shit about yourself that no one can verify just to lend your argument credibility it doesn't have.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Slavery was not Lee's motivation, that was clear.

Of fucking course it was! How do you think he became a rich man? By exploiting free labor (aka slavery).

So, you got anything to support your claim that he was motivated by money in his decision to turn down command of the Union army and instead take command of the Army of Virginia?


lol!!!

That was a joke, I know that supporting your arguments is not for you. YOu are just a partisan hack who just says shit.

In short, he appears to have been a patriotic Virginian, as opposed to being a patriotic American.

 

[The Derp]

/——/ you aren’t well read. Believe what you want but here is some data. I doubt you’ll do more than scan it. Plantation owners were land rich but not necessarily cash rich. Their problem was the lack of a labor force that slavery solved: Measuring Worth - Measuring the Value of a Slave

But they were rich, and not paying slaves a wage meant you got to keep more of that wealth. That's why Lee became a traitor...his personal wealth was more important to him than the unity of the country.

 

[The Derp]

In short, he appears to have been a patriotic Virginian, as opposed to being a patriotic American.

He wasn't either. He was just a rich guy who wanted to stay rich.

 

[Cellblock2429]

/——/ you aren’t well read. Believe what you want but here is some data. I doubt you’ll do more than scan it. Plantation owners were land rich but not necessarily cash rich. Their problem was the lack of a labor force that slavery solved: Measuring Worth - Measuring the Value of a Slave

But they were rich, and not paying slaves a wage meant you got to keep more of that wealth. That's why Lee became a traitor...his personal wealth was more important to him than the unity of the country.

/——/ Yeah those rich Democrat slave owners were greedy alright.

 

[NYcarbineer]

By the pseudocons' own standards, Lee was a terrorist.

The real terrorist of the era was John Brown, the abolitionist, whose effect on Southern sentiments for secession had a much more profound effect than what is generally taught in basic Civil war history.

 

[NYcarbineer]

/——/ you aren’t well read. Believe what you want but here is some data. I doubt you’ll do more than scan it. Plantation owners were land rich but not necessarily cash rich. Their problem was the lack of a labor force that slavery solved: Measuring Worth - Measuring the Value of a Slave

But they were rich, and not paying slaves a wage meant you got to keep more of that wealth. That's why Lee became a traitor...his personal wealth was more important to him than the unity of the country.

/——/ Yeah those rich Democrat slave owners were greedy alright.

lol, see? As soon as they're triggered by the word 'Democrat',

even Robert E. Lee goes under the bus.