jewish settlement on arab lands

[tommywho70x]

This is intersting too.


Tanach Study Center - Matot-Masei


The people of Israel desperately desire peace. And we desperately desire that our enemies should desire this as much as we do. We are simply not prepared to accept a reality that contradicts this all-consuming desire.

People looking at us from the outside are scratching their heads and saying: What's the matter with these people? Have their brains leaked out of their heads? Don't they see that every time they make concessions to their enemies, or even talk about making concessions -- more people die? More Jews die, and more Arabs die, and the sufferings of both peoples increase. Yet when they hold firm, refuse to give up any land, and fight the killers with intelligence and determination, there are fewer Jewish casualties, fewer Arab deaths, and the lives of both peoples improve. They've been in this back-and-forth cycle for 100 years now, and every time the same thing happens!

But even when we lose the ability to think straight, we still have the Torah. So what does the Torah say about the question of "land for peace"?

There's actually an explicit, unambiguous ruling in the Shulchan Aruch, the Torah's "Code of Law." It's in the Code's first volume, Orach Chayim, section 329. This law does not even speak about the land of Israel -- it applies equally to Jerusalem, to Brooklyn, New York, and to Wellington, New Zealand.

The law describes the following scenario: A hostile army attacks you, or threatens to attack you, and demands a piece of territory. They say, "Give us this piece of land, and we'll leave you alone." The overriding issue is pikuach nefesh, saving lives, which supersedes the entire Torah. Do we go to war to prevent the enemy's occupation of the territory, or do we relinquish the territory in return for a promise of future non-aggression?

The Torah rules: Giving up territory will make you more vulnerable to attack. To give up territory in return for a promise of "peace" is not just a reckless gamble of your and your people's lives -- it's a gamble that you're sure to lose. Do not yield territory that makes you more vulnerable to attack, even if you must go to war to prevent that. It's a matter of pikuach nefesh -- preventing the loss of life. War is a dangerous thing, but one must go to war to save lives.
The holiness of the land is not the issue (though the Torah has a lot to say about that). The fact that the land of Israel is the eternal possession of all Jews of all generations, and no one has the right to give it to anyone else, is not the issue (though the Torah has lots to say on that, too). The issue is pikuach nefesh, saving lives.

Protecting your own life and the lives of your loved ones is generally a matter of common sense. It's also a Torah ideal. Common sense sometimes fails us. That's why we have a Torah.

the TORAH says nothing of the sort. that is some later rabbis schmoozing it up on hypothetical issues and formulating opinions based on their own interpretations of related passages.

 

[CMike]

Some rabbis schmoozing?? I thought you said you cared about serving Hashem?

Also what about Genesis 15:18 that laid out the borders?

 

[tommywho70x]

Some rabbis schmoozing?? I thought you said you cared about serving Hashem?

Also what about Genesis 15:18 that laid out the borders?

some of us don't take our marching orders from crown heights

i'm having a little traffic jam problem right at the moment and my browser wouldn't wait for the chabad server.

you really think the jews should "own" everything between the nile and the euphrates?

 

[CMike]

I think if you are looking for biblical support of why Israel should have Israel, it's pretty clear that it's there.

 

[jillian]

Some rabbis schmoozing?? I thought you said you cared about serving Hashem?

Also what about Genesis 15:18 that laid out the borders?

some of us don't take our marching orders from crown heights

i'm having a little traffic jam problem right at the moment and my browser wouldn't wait for the chabad server.

you really think the jews should "own" everything between the nile and the euphrates?

i don't think jews should own everything between the nile and the euphrates. nor do i think the pals should be without dignity.

but some of us don't take our marching orders from hamas.

 

[tommywho70x]

Some rabbis schmoozing?? I thought you said you cared about serving Hashem?

Also what about Genesis 15:18 that laid out the borders?

some of us don't take our marching orders from crown heights

i'm having a little traffic jam problem right at the moment and my browser wouldn't wait for the chabad server.

you really think the jews should "own" everything between the nile and the euphrates?

i don't think jews should own everything between the nile and the euphrates. nor do i think the pals should be without dignity.

but some of us don't take our marching orders from hamas.

oh little miss hypocrite going to pipe in here? you realize you impugn those people's dignity just by calling them pals?

you also imply that i am somehow an agent of hamas which is completely absurd.

i walked away from the chicago JDL in 1975 when the FBI's agent provocateurs had suborned our original mission and was using us for little controlled riots against arab and extremist groups on the left and right.

israel was never very important to me. i do not believe that there is an honest biblical mandate for a jewish state without the presence of the messiah and hashem on the planet.

i am a native american hebrew-israelite and have never been particularly enamored with the way the israeli government conducted itself on the world stage. the behavior of some american jews in support of the violence is sickening to me.

rationalize all you like. killing is still killing no matter how righteous or necessary you think the killing may be.

 

[CMike]

No killing is not killing. There is a difference between killing in self defense, and killing just because you don't like someone being there.

In fact, the Torah also says that if you know that someone is coming to kill you are duty bound to get up earlier in the day and kill him first.

And I gave you the biblical reference to Israel.

When you turn back on Israel, you turn your back on Hashem.

Right there in Genesis 15:

18. On that day, the Lord formed a covenant with Abram, saying, "To your seed I have given this land, from the river of Egypt until the great river, the Euphrates river

Here is some more

Why is the land of Israel considered the Jewish Homeland? - israel holy land


The first interaction between G-d and the first Jew as recorded in the Torah was G-d's instruction to Abraham to travel "to the land that I will show you"1. Once Abraham was there, G-d said "Do you see this land? I will give this to you and your descendants for eternity".2

That land was Israel.

G-d reaffirmed that promise with Isaac3, and Jacob4. Later, when Jacob's descendants were but mere slaves in Egypt G-d told Moses He would liberate them and lead them to a land, a land He promised to their forefathers.5

That land was Israel.

In the dessert when the Jews received the Torah, the constitution of Judaism and its laws, some 300 (out of 613) laws were only applicable in, or significantly tied to, the land.

That land was Israel.

Joshua settled it. King David secured it. King Solomon developed it. For hundreds of years, since their Exodus from Egypt, the Jews knew there is a land G-d chose for His, and their, home. It would be the eternal center of their laws, and life. They were prohibited from ever replacing it with another land.6

That land was Israel.

Israel is the beginning of our history. It is the destination of our exodus. It is the venue for close to half of our commandments. It is the promise of our prophecies.

Force took the Jews out of Israel. But no force in the world can take Israel out of the Jew.

For thousands of years, wherever they were in the world, Jews sent money to the small, and often poor, communities of their brethren living in Israel. Every Passover Seder was, and is, concluded with the hopeful prayer "next year in Jerusalem".

Wherever the Jew prays, s/he prays facing the direction of one land. In every prayer the Jew prays for the peace of, and return to, one land.

That land is Israel. The Jewish Homeland.


Footnotes

1. Genesis 12:1
2. Genesis 13:15
3. Genesis 26:3
4. Genesis 28:13
5. Exodus 6:8

 

[tommywho70x]

i don't know about you but when i turn my back on hashem, he generally inserts his big toe up my ass crack.

i've read most of what you have posted here at one time or another and i stand by my conclusions, especially with a criminal like benny netanyahu in charge.


have fun in mackinac --- you going during the race? cool ass boats.

also, if you have the time to do it, the circumnavigation drive of lake michigan is supposed to be a real hoot. never done the whole way round but the parts i have been to are some of the prettiest forests and nicest small towns left in the country.

 

[jillian]

some of us don't take our marching orders from crown heights

i'm having a little traffic jam problem right at the moment and my browser wouldn't wait for the chabad server.

you really think the jews should "own" everything between the nile and the euphrates?

i don't think jews should own everything between the nile and the euphrates. nor do i think the pals should be without dignity.

but some of us don't take our marching orders from hamas.

oh little miss hypocrite going to pipe in here? you realize you impugn those people's dignity just by calling them pals?

you also imply that i am somehow an agent of hamas which is completely absurd.

i walked away from the chicago JDL in 1975 when the FBI's agent provocateurs had suborned our original mission and was using us for little controlled riots against arab and extremist groups on the left and right.

israel was never very important to me. i do not believe that there is an honest biblical mandate for a jewish state without the presence of the messiah and hashem on the planet.

i am a native american hebrew-israelite and have never been particularly enamored with the way the israeli government conducted itself on the world stage. the behavior of some american jews in support of the violence is sickening to me.

rationalize all you like. killing is still killing no matter how righteous or necessary you think the killing may be.

hypocrite? really? i've been far too polite to you.

again, you've repeatedly said you know little about this subject. yet you insist on spewing.

hypocrite? i am very true to my beliefs. unlike you, i hold everyone to the same standard. i don't require that my people lay down and die to satisfy terrorists. nor should any jew ever go quietly to die again. how dare you dishonor everyone who came before you.

you say that 'levites' shouldn't own land.

on what planet?

not on any planet i live on.

and if you believe that, fine, don't.

but don't get people killed with stupidity.

and i don't believe for a second you're a native-american-hebrew-israelite.

you're something... but it isn't anything that you purport to be. and what you purport to be keeps boiling down to jews are supposed to die for terrorists and not defend themselves. so stop being offended that someone understands EXACTLY what you're saying.

or feel free to stop posting insanity like we're not supposed to defend ourselves. the first commandment says thou shalt not MURDER...

it has always been permissible to defend oneself and others and before you call me one more name, martyr, go prove me wrong about that.

just because you have a perverse need to be subjugated, doesn't mean you have any right to impose that need on others.

perhaps a healthier way for you to work it out would be to find an appropriate dom to go with your need to be a sub....

your lack of knowledge on this subject is astounding.

a native-american-hebrew-israelite?

i hate people who have survivor's guilt.

 

[CMike]

No I'm not, but it is fun. There are only horses and carriages allowed on the Island. We get there by ferry. It's way cool.

You still can't separate Israel from Judaism, almost every jewish prayer involves Israel.

 

[tommywho70x]

i don't think jews should own everything between the nile and the euphrates. nor do i think the pals should be without dignity.

but some of us don't take our marching orders from hamas.

oh little miss hypocrite going to pipe in here? you realize you impugn those people's dignity just by calling them pals?

you also imply that i am somehow an agent of hamas which is completely absurd.

i walked away from the chicago JDL in 1975 when the FBI's agent provocateurs had suborned our original mission and was using us for little controlled riots against arab and extremist groups on the left and right.

israel was never very important to me. i do not believe that there is an honest biblical mandate for a jewish state without the presence of the messiah and hashem on the planet.

i am a native american hebrew-israelite and have never been particularly enamored with the way the israeli government conducted itself on the world stage. the behavior of some american jews in support of the violence is sickening to me.

rationalize all you like. killing is still killing no matter how righteous or necessary you think the killing may be.

hypocrite? really? i've been far too polite to you.

again, you've repeatedly said you know little about this subject. yet you insist on spewing.

hypocrite? i am very true to my beliefs. unlike you, i hold everyone to the same standard. i don't require that my people lay down and die to satisfy terrorists. nor should any jew ever go quietly to die again. how dare you dishonor everyone who came before you.

you say that 'levites' shouldn't own land.

on what planet?

not on any planet i live on.

and if you believe that, fine, don't.

but don't get people killed with stupidity.

and i don't believe for a second you're a native-american-hebrew-israelite.

you're something... but it isn't anything that you purport to be. and what you purport to be keeps boiling down to jews are supposed to die for terrorists and not defend themselves. so stop being offended that someone understands EXACTLY what you're saying.

or feel free to stop posting insanity like we're not supposed to defend ourselves. the first commandment says thou shalt not MURDER...

it has always been permissible to defend oneself and others and before you call me one more name, martyr, go prove me wrong about that.

just because you have a perverse need to be subjugated, doesn't mean you have any right to impose that need on others.

perhaps a healthier way for you to work it out would be to find an appropriate dom to go with your need to be a sub....

your lack of knowledge on this subject is astounding.

a native-american-hebrew-israelite?

i hate people who have survivor's guilt.

neener-neener. people who hate are not fulfilling shema.

the rest of your post is off the wall horseshit projecting your own inadequacies at me.

not once have any of you rabies infected racist kykes admitted that maybe there is a solution other than fighting to the death.

and ms. legal secretary, go sit on your mouse and rotate. your idea of polite and emily post's are light years apart.

 

[CMike]

What are the 1st 3 words of shema?

 

[tommywho70x]

No I'm not, but it is fun. There are only horses and carriages allowed on the Island. We get there by ferry. It's way cool.

You still can't separate Israel from Judaism, almost every jewish prayer involves Israel.

i know that and i don't. i am descended from Israel, who was Jacob, not a government.

i will admit to add v'kol ha'goyim to prayers blessing israel for just that reason.

i am also not what would be called typical. the cabalists call me a ba'aleh nefesh which means master of the animal spirit. i have healing hands and one of the clans making my family is the singers. when i sing or touch people, animals or plants, people smile.

i open my mouth to say things and people go nuts. i think that's why myron cohen used to crack, "so nu? god? vy don't you choose somebody else for a change?"

i think the jews as a people are on the brink of really fucking up big time with the big guy and i've been asking him to choose the texicans on the next go 'round.

nasty people like the zionist trolls on this board are one real clear indicator the jews as a people are not fulfilling shema.

 

[Marc39]

nasty people like the zionist trolls on this board are one real clear indicator the jews as a people are not fulfilling shema.

You don't even know what Zionism is, fat boy. Why use terms foreign to you?

 

[tommywho70x]

What are the 1st 3 words of shema?

in hebrew or english and do you start at shema or ve'hafta?

 

[tommywho70x]

nasty people like the zionist trolls on this board are one real clear indicator the jews as a people are not fulfilling shema.

You don't even know what Zionism is, fat boy. Why use terms foreign to you?

much as i'd like to hang out and bait you into posting incredibly stupid shit, it's saturday night and i need to move downtown in a bit to see a lady about some horses.

make it quick dweebazoid and maybe i'll have a little time for you to once more make a fool out of yourself.

that's a great picture of you in your office, weasel.

 

[jillian]

neener-neener. people who hate are not fulfilling shema.

the rest of your post is off the wall horseshit projecting your own inadequacies at me.

not once have any of you rabies infected racist kykes admitted that maybe there is a solution other than fighting to the death.

and ms. legal secretary, go sit on your mouse and rotate. your idea of polite and emily post's are light years apart.

it seems that not only don't you understand mid-east politics, you don't understand the shema either... since again, nothing in the shema would require that someone would not DEFEND oneself. Or does the word defend confuse you, too?

i'm not a legal secretary. i've been an attorney for two decades, so you can kiss my jew butt, mr. heir to a small fortune.

you might also stop lying about my take on this issue. i am not one of the people here, you nutbar, who thinks pals shouldn't have a home. i said that when you get attacked, you fight back. if you can't understand that concept, that's on you. you've already proven you don't understand mid east politics or judaism, i'm not surprised you don't understand self-preservation. but then again, someone who's created nothing but inherited a trust fund so he can pretend he's a blue collar guy, doesn't have too much honesty anyway.

people get treated by me as they deserve. and someone who calls another jew a **** is as worthless as boobs on a bull. and such a person who complains that i called a group of peoples pals was being disrespectful and then turns around and calls me a **** is a pathetic loser.

i don't know any jew who would call a jew a **** except maybe, maybe as a joke. so you're either a liar or you're just vile.

i think you're nuts, actually.

 

[tommywho70x]

ooh a doctor of jurisprudence! i'm underwhelmed. so do you actually do something besides fill in templates and collect the fees?



ya know, it wasn't until i met you folks that words like sheenie and kyke were ones i felt were fitting.
as comedy, racial slurs are okay by me. in normal conversation, i get offended by white people talking about *******, spicks, chinks, ragheads and so on.

your use of the term "pal" is offensive. what goes around, comes around.

i'm not a little nuts. i'm all the way out there and get paid really well for doing crazy shit that "normal" people have neither the skill or courage to do.

so you go right on snapping and snarling at me counselor and forget about the kiss on your royal jewish ass. you don't have enough money to get me to pull down your drawers and risk my health on your cellulite-laden tuchas.

 

[Barb]

It's backwards. It's Arab settlements on isreals land.

Did you hurt yourself when you bumped your head?

 

[Marc39]

It's backwards. It's Arab settlements on isreals land.

Did you hurt yourself when you bumped your head?

The Middle East and North Africa was originally Christian and Jewish, hun. Before, terrorist Muhammadans invaded and conquered their lands and massacred them.

Open a book, hun.