Jewish Arrival to New Amsterdam 1654

[zaangalewa]

Sephardi settled in a lot of places, including the Papal States; ironically the Pope had to order the local Jews to take some 10,000 Jewish refugees in, since the local Jews didn't want to let them into their communities. France took a lot, the Turks took in a lot, the Dutch took in some, and others went to the Americas, not many but enough to be noteworthy here and there. A lot stayed in Spain.

Of some 11,000 cases tried by inquisitors in Spain from the late 15th century through the first half of the 16th, only some 1,200 or so were convicted and sentenced to death, and of those 683 were only burned in effigy, which meant they weren't actually burned, but either allowed to leave or had to move to another town or something. About 10% or so were 'conversos' thought to be secretly practicing their old religion and had lied under oath about converting, and this would include Muslims, not just Jews, and the rest were Protestants or some other types of 'heretics' or other.

It's also noteworthy how few 'witches' and other superstition driven deaths there were in the Catholic Spanish and Papal states; most of those were in the the northern kingdoms and eastern kingdoms.

The myth that 2 million witches were burned from the inquisition of the Catholic Church was made from the Prussians in their so called culture fight, where the 'tolerant' Prussians fought against Catholics. Still today most people believe in this myth. Indeed in the Middle Ages to believe in whitches was just simple called a superstition - same so today. But in the beginning modern era did happen indeed masses of such burnings - on reasons, which were lies - but it were "only" about 50,000 witches and sorcceres who were burned. And as well Protestants and Catholics did do so. Prostestants burned about 90% women and 10% men - Catholics 50% men and 50% women. And where the inquisitions had been strong nearly never such burnings had happened. The lies of the Prussians seem to be harmless - on the other side: In the areas of Germany and Poland where this few real and many fantasy burnings theoretically had happened much later in history the Holocaust found the most victims. If this is more than only a random principle then there is perhaps a dimension of evil fantasies which is much more dangerous than we normally are able to think.

 

[DudleySmith]

The myth that 2 million witches were burned from the inquisition of the Catholic Church was made from the Prussians in their so called culture fight, where the 'tolerant' Prussians fought against Catholics. Still today most people believe in this myth. Indeed in the Middle Ages to believe in whitches was just simple called a superstition - same so today. But in the beginning modern era did happen indeed masses of such burnings - on reasons, which were lies - but it were "only" about 50,000 witches and sorcceres who were burned. And as well Protestants and Catholics did do so. Prostestants burned about 90% women and 10% men - Catholics 50% men and 50% women. And where the inquisitions had been strong nearly never such burnings had happened. The lies of the Prussians seem to be harmless - on the other side: In the areas of Germany and Poland where this few real and many fantasy burnings theoretically had happened much later in history the Holocaust found the most victims. If this is more than only a random principle then there is perhaps a dimension of evil fantasies which is much more dangerous than we normally are able to think.

Well, it was more like maybe 12,000 were burned, but poisoning was also included along with other crimes as 'witchcraft', not surprisng in a time where wives had few options in dealing with abusive husbands and poisoning them was pretty much the only option to get rid of them. There is even a geographical pattern to the burnings, usually along the frontiers between the French and German states, where paranoia would always be high and a stress on locals. England is kind of an outlier, having several burning rampages there. The Catholic Church's Roman inquisition killed hardly no one, the Portugese probably killed more than the Spanish did, and the many other 'Inquisitions' were mostly small local affairs, like the Venetian Inquisition.

Poland had the most Jewish holocaust victims because it had by far the largest Jewish population. The Operation Reinhardt death camps were set up specifically to murder Polish Jews. The Nazis had a lot of help from the local Poles and their police as well, and the main reason so many had to remain in the concentration camps for years after the war was the locals murdering any Jews who tried to return to their homes in Poland. This is why I'm glad we didn't waste lives trying to rescue them from the Soviets; they deserved the Russians.

 

[zaangalewa]

Well, it was more like maybe 12,000 were burned, but poisoning was also included along with other crimes as 'witchcraft', not surprisng in a time where wives had few options in dealing with abusive husbands and poisoning them was pretty much the only option to get rid of them. There is even a geographical pattern to the burnings, usually along the frontiers between the French and German states, where paranoia would always be high and a stress on locals. England is kind of an outlier, having several burning rampages there. The Catholic Church's Roman inquisition killed hardly no one, the Portugese probably killed more than the Spanish did, and the many other 'Inquisitions' were mostly small local affairs, like the Venetian Inquisition.

Poland had the most Jewish holocaust victims because it had by far the largest Jewish population. The Operation Reinhardt death camps were set up specifically to murder Polish Jews. The Nazis had a lot of help from the local Poles and their police as well, and the main reason so many had to remain in the concentration camps for years after the war was the locals murdering any Jews who tried to return to their homes in Poland. This is why I'm glad we didn't waste lives trying to rescue them from the Soviets; they deserved the Russians.

The Ashkenazim spoke yiddish - except in Germany where they spoke German like all others. But yiddish is a German language and who speaks a German language is a German. And they spoke Polish also with the color yiddish and were in the lands of the Slaws easily able to be identified as strangers. So the situation in Poland had been indeed a genocide - while the situation in Germany had been a fratricide with a racism marker on the clothing - David's star - and an entry in a passport: the Jews got an additional prename "Sarah" for women and "Israel" for men. Otherwise had not been any way to seperate Germans and Germans.

And the Polish government tries to install many taboos around the themes Russia, Germany and Holocaust. But in the Waffen-SS had been people from many nations - for example also naturalized Poles. But sometimes were there also people who were totally innocent to be there - as for example people from the Alsace, where an idiot decided to make Hitler a nice birthday present: all young man of the Alsace of the same age group had to go to the Waffen-SS - what doesn't mean they had to work in concentration camps.

And not to forget: In the extermination camps in Poland were eliminated Jews from all over Europe. The death industry of the Nazis worked everywhere.

 

[DudleySmith]

The Ashkenazim spoke yiddish - except in Germany where they spoke German like all others. But yiddish is a German language and who speaks a German language is a German. And they spoke Polish also with the color yiddish and were in the lands of the Slaws easily able to be identified as strangers. So the situation in Poland had been indeed a genocide - while the situation in Germany had been a fratricide with a racism marker on the clothing - David's star - and an entry in a passport: the Jews got an additional prename "Sarah" for women and "Israel" for men.

And the Polish government tries to install many taboos around the themes Russia, Germany and Holocaust. But in the Waffen-SS had been people from many nations - for example also naturalized Poles. But sometimes were there also people who were toally innocent to be there - as for example people from the Alsace, where an idiot decided to make Hitler a nice birthday prensent: all young man of the Asace of the same age group had to go to the Waffen-SS.

And not to forget: In the extermination camps in Poland were eliminated Jews from all over Europe. The death industry of the Nazis worked everywhere.

Danes and Dutch SS too, and let's not forget Petain in France.

 

[zaangalewa]

... This is why I'm glad we didn't waste lives trying to rescue them from the Soviets; they deserved the Russians.

This is by the way a perfect racist statement on reason to avoid to think about the "own" mistakes. "The Poles" exist as less as "the Russians" or "the Americans". "The Americans" is for example Geronimo, Al Capone and Woody Guthry.

 

[DudleySmith]

Whatever excuses they want to make; doesn't move me to pity at all.

 

[zaangalewa]

Whatever excuses they want to make; doesn't move me to pity at all.

Who is they? "The Poles"? In Yad Vashem you can find many Poles. The problem is that the government of Poland tries to use them as a shield for other Poles. Nationalism works in this way. One crime of anyone of a foreign nation makes all this people evil - one angel in the own nation makes everyone to an angel. In the end everyone loves the own criminals more than any angel of any other nation.

 

[zaangalewa]

Danes and Dutch SS too, and let's not forget Petain in France.

The Danes saved in an extraordinary action nearly all Danes who were Jews. I hope the whole Danish nation got an honorful place in Yad Vashem. In the Netherlands the situation had been in the extreme opposite: 73% of all Dutch Jews lost their life during the Holocaust. And in France ... one moment ... got it: 25% of the French Jews were murdered - 75% survived. From the German Jews survived also many Jews - 2/3rd - but very most not in Germany - many of them in America.

 

[DudleySmith]

The Danes saved in an extraordinary action nearly all Danes who were Jews. I hope the whole Danish nation got an honorful place in Yad Vashem. In the Netherlands the situation had been in the extreme opposite: 73% of all Dutch Jews lost their life during the Holocaust. And in France ... one moment ... got it: 25% of the French Jews were murdered - 75% survived. From the German Jews survived also many Jews - 2/3rd - but very most not in Germany - many of them in America.

Germany only had a few Jews relative to the eastern Slavic countries. In France there was an extensive underground and a network of Catholic priests smuggling all kinds of people into Spain. Most of the 130,000 Jews from Europe allowed into the U.S. in the 1930's were German Jews, as they usually had skill sets that got them past our immigration restrictions, i.e. they could support themselves.

 

[zaangalewa]

Germany only had a few Jews relative to the eastern Slavic countries.

0.5% - 1:200. And all of them were Germans like all others and lived everywhere in little numbers. And it existed not any wide spread anti-Semitism before Hitler came - who was by the way in his whole youth when he grew up also not confrontated with anti-Semitism.

In France there was an extensive underground and a network of Catholic priests smuggling all kinds of people into Spain. Most of the 130,000 Jews from Europe allowed into the U.S. in the 1930's were German Jews, as they usually had skill sets that got them past our immigration restrictions, i.e. they could support themselves.