It will be Republican Chuck Hagel 4 Defense Secretary: Whoo Hoo! Fight is on.

[Ravi]

Speaking at other groups is more of a partisan nature & they don't represent foreign countries. This is not so w/ the other lobby. It is mandatory/a death knell for the campaign if you don't go suck up to them because of the role of $ in American politics.

I admit it. I put America, and her interests, first.

Do you feel the same way about Greek and Armenian lobbys? Israel certainly isn't the only "foreign power" that has lobby groups in the USA nor is it the only one that effects our foreign policy.

The problem being is that the ONLY foreign lobby group I see lefties criticizing is the one that supports Israel. Certainly you can see why this would cause people to label others anti-semitic.

btw, Jillian is an America-firster. Not that there is anything wrong with being an Israel-firster but get your facts straight.

For the record, I am adamantly opposed to the outsized strength of those two foreign lobbies, also. Both have used their considerable influence to put wedges and roadblocks against closer U.S. relations with Türkiye. They both have enormous influence in California and Hollywood, also. In fact, about 10-15 years ago the son of Lawrence Olivier (I'm pretty sure it was him...) was putting together an epic movie about the life of The Great Man, Kemal Mustapha Ataturk, which was to star Antonio Banderas (which is inspired casting - he would have been perfect). Those two lobbies (especially the Hellenic lobby) squashed it, with Banderas and wife Melanie Griffith actually receiving death threats, which scared the shit out of them.

Now we know that your reasons are logical and not based on some knee jerk reaction. Thank you.

 

[Ravi]

For the record, I'm not a Hagel fan but watching the rightwingloon meltdown over ONE OF THEIR OWN being nominated is very funny.

 

[jillian]

Do you feel the same way about Greek and Armenian lobbys? Israel certainly isn't the only "foreign power" that has lobby groups in the USA nor is it the only one that effects our foreign policy.

The problem being is that the ONLY foreign lobby group I see lefties criticizing is the one that supports Israel. Certainly you can see why this would cause people to label others anti-semitic.

btw, Jillian is an America-firster. Not that there is anything wrong with being an Israel-firster but get your facts straight.

For the record, I am adamantly opposed to the outsized strength of those two foreign lobbies, also. Both have used their considerable influence to put wedges and roadblocks against closer U.S. relations with Türkiye. They both have enormous influence in California and Hollywood, also. In fact, about 10-15 years ago the son of Lawrence Olivier (I'm pretty sure it was him...) was putting together an epic movie about the life of The Great Man, Kemal Mustapha Ataturk, which was to star Antonio Banderas (which is inspired casting - he would have been perfect). Those two lobbies (especially the Hellenic lobby) squashed it, with Banderas and wife Melanie Griffith actually receiving death threats, which scared the shit out of them.

Now we know that your reasons are logical and not based on some knee jerk reaction. Thank you.

synth isn't a hater like dot and the randian idiot.

 

[Dot Com]

For the record, I am adamantly opposed to the outsized strength of those two foreign lobbies, also. Both have used their considerable influence to put wedges and roadblocks against closer U.S. relations with Türkiye. They both have enormous influence in California and Hollywood, also. In fact, about 10-15 years ago the son of Lawrence Olivier (I'm pretty sure it was him...) was putting together an epic movie about the life of The Great Man, Kemal Mustapha Ataturk, which was to star Antonio Banderas (which is inspired casting - he would have been perfect). Those two lobbies (especially the Hellenic lobby) squashed it, with Banderas and wife Melanie Griffith actually receiving death threats, which scared the shit out of them.

Now we know that your reasons are logical and not based on some knee jerk reaction. Thank you.

synth isn't a hater like dot and the randian idiot.

resulting to personal attacks again? WINNER!!! I'm being criticized for being overly patriotic (not wanting foreign countries having disproportionate influence in US choosing OUR politicians)

 

[Dante]

again, i haven't heard one way or the other whether hormel changed his mind. i was simply pointing out what i knew.

as for 'good enough'. it's a funny thing about that. my understanding of my religion is that it is only for the wronged party to forgive. no one can offer forgiveness for them. so the wrong has to be righted with the person aggrieved in the first instance.

It's about moving forward. As Ambassador Guest so eloquently states "I cannot claim I know Hagel well. But as a career diplomat, I had occasions to work with him and his staff. In that work, I found Hagel to be a man of integrity — honest and direct in his assessments and willing to seek common ground. He was true to his word. And if Hagel says he would fully implement the repeal of “don’t ask, don’t tell,” I take him at his word."

Our LGBT community should care deeply, of course, about that issue. Should President Barack Obama decide to nominate him to serve our country at the Pentagon, as is widely reported, Hagel should be closely questioned on precisely his leadership to ensure fairness for gay and lesbian military personnel and their families.

While Hagel’s Senate votes on lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender issues were hardly perfect, they are not reasons to oppose his nomination for defense secretary — especially under the clear leadership of a president who supports LGBT equality goals.

The LGBT community, together with all Americans, should care that the secretary of defense pursue all conceivable peaceful options before putting the lives of American men and women at risk.

We should want a defense secretary with international stature and the trust and confidence of the president — both essential elements to effectiveness in this difficult job.

Don't judge Chuck Hagel by 1998 comment - Ambassador Michael Guest - POLITICO.com

i just think there were better choices to be made.

Opinions are like...

It is the President's Cabinet, and he gets to nominate who he thinks is the best considering all the stuff that goes into the nomination process and who he feels will carry out his policies and give sound advice to him.

 

[jillian]

It's about moving forward. As Ambassador Guest so eloquently states "I cannot claim I know Hagel well. But as a career diplomat, I had occasions to work with him and his staff. In that work, I found Hagel to be a man of integrity — honest and direct in his assessments and willing to seek common ground. He was true to his word. And if Hagel says he would fully implement the repeal of “don’t ask, don’t tell,” I take him at his word."

Don't judge Chuck Hagel by 1998 comment - Ambassador Michael Guest - POLITICO.com

i just think there were better choices to be made.

Opinions are like...

It is the President's Cabinet, and he gets to nominate who he thinks is the best considering all the stuff that goes into the nomination process and who he feels will carry out his policies and give sound advice to him.

absolutely... and i'm not suggesting that the nomination should be scuttled. in fact, i suspect hagel was joe biden's pick because they're very close friends.

but yes, i have my opinions on the subject... as do we all.

and, for the record, i'd have been upset if he picked a neocon, too.

 

[jillian]

Now we know that your reasons are logical and not based on some knee jerk reaction. Thank you.

synth isn't a hater like dot and the randian idiot.

resulting to personal attacks again? WINNER!!!

as opposed to lying and calling me an 'israel firster'?

go ahead... talk about the jews' dual loyalty again.

and i have no doubt you'll get over whatever wounds you feel.

 

[Synthaholic]

Why is Hagels position on gays being ignored in this thread? Had a poster on here aspoused the position he did you guys would be shreading that poster.

Lemmings much?

It's not being ignored. It's a non issue except for a few people with agendas. Hagel apologized and Hormel accepted his apology.

what more do you want?

Actually, I believe Hormel refused to accept his apology, saying that it wasn't sincere and that it was only motivated by current politics.

I suspect he is correct.

As far as forgiving his comments, some famous Gays have and some haven't. More evidence that Gays do not prance in lockstep.

(sorry - couldn't resist. )

 

[Synthaholic]

And I haven't been deceitful in any manor.

Loon

Are you a Lord?

 

[Synthaholic]

What sort of outsized influence are you talking about?

I don't remember huge coverage and outrage from FOX Newsertainment over whether Obama was going to make time to meet the Japanese PM, or whether Obama's outreach to China was a slap in the face of Japan.

Feel free to change those countries to South Korea/North Korea if you do not believe that Japan has faced a constant threat from China (they have).

Fox News is posting on USMB?

WTF are you babbling about now? You haven't started drinking already, have you?

 

[Synthaholic]

What sort of outsized influence are you talking about?

I don't remember huge coverage and outrage from FOX Newsertainment over whether Obama was going to make time to meet the Japanese PM, or whether Obama's outreach to China was a slap in the face of Japan.

Feel free to change those countries to South Korea/North Korea if you do not believe that Japan has faced a constant threat from China (they have).

our involvement in the region stems more from our oil interests than anything else. so keeping peace there is pretty important. and, frankly, sometimes people shoudl do the right thing because it's the right thing. last i checked, we also had a common interest in de-fanging the jihadis, as well. and israel is a huge source of intel for us.

as for japan and china, unfortunately or fortunately, china holds our debt... do you really think we're going to face off with them in regard to japan when our larger concern in the region is north korea and keeping things with china civil.

And that fact should make the Japanese even more nervous about the U.S. being 100% behind them, not less. So why is there no poutrage over whether/when/how long POTUS meets with the Japanese PM?

and if george bush has snubbed nelson mandela, you'd have been a bit shocked and surprised. snubbing netanyahu was like that for jews. it was like 'why are you doing that to a friend'?

as it happens, the lack of personal warmth in that relationship seems not to have escalated to crazy levels. but i suspect netanyahu would have been able to make more of a case for certain things of interest to israel had he not tried to embarass the president.

But he wasn't snubbed. I remember that, at the time, the administration responded that POTUS talks with Netty frequently and that a face-to-face was not necessary.

Do you have a quote from Netty or the Israeli government complaining that they were snubbed? I didn't see any. In fact, I thought they backed the administration statement.

 

[Rinata]

So, let me get this straight. Dante supports the Nomination of a guy who once publicly said someone being gay made them not qualified to serve in any capacity?

He apologized. It's bat crap crazies that hold grudges, not us.

 

[Dot Com]

This guy doesn't measure up :

Obama taps 'American patriot' Hagel for Pentagon job - NBC Politics

If confirmed, Hagel would be the first former enlisted soldier to become the secretary of defense. His views of international conflict are heavily influenced by his own service in the Vietnam War; he won two Purple Hearts for his service and still has pieces of shrapnel embedded in his chest.

 

[Katzndogz]

The only one I've heard talk about his vet record is you Sallow. Stop projecting

Projected what?

This isn't something new. Conservatives have smeared the war records of vets they don't like. From John Kerry to Tammy Duckworth.

Look what they did to Max Cleland.

You shouldn't get medals for blowing yourself up.

 

[Synthaholic]

Do you feel the same way about Greek and Armenian lobbys? Israel certainly isn't the only "foreign power" that has lobby groups in the USA nor is it the only one that effects our foreign policy.

The problem being is that the ONLY foreign lobby group I see lefties criticizing is the one that supports Israel. Certainly you can see why this would cause people to label others anti-semitic.

btw, Jillian is an America-firster. Not that there is anything wrong with being an Israel-firster but get your facts straight.

For the record, I am adamantly opposed to the outsized strength of those two foreign lobbies, also. Both have used their considerable influence to put wedges and roadblocks against closer U.S. relations with Türkiye. They both have enormous influence in California and Hollywood, also. In fact, about 10-15 years ago the son of Lawrence Olivier (I'm pretty sure it was him...) was putting together an epic movie about the life of The Great Man, Kemal Mustapha Ataturk, which was to star Antonio Banderas (which is inspired casting - he would have been perfect). Those two lobbies (especially the Hellenic lobby) squashed it, with Banderas and wife Melanie Griffith actually receiving death threats, which scared the shit out of them.

Now we know that your reasons are logical and not based on some knee jerk reaction. Thank you.

Thanks, Ravi.

And I still think that movie should be made. Ataturk's life story is perfect for an epic movie, from his victory over the Aussie's/New Zealand/British at Gallipoli to single-handedly creating a country through the sheer force of his cult of personality and the Turkish people's reverence for him. 'Ataturk' is not his given name - it was the name bestowed upon him by the Turkish people, and literally means "Father of the Turks". I personally believe he may be the greatest man of the past 2000 years. More people should know his life story.

 

[Synthaholic]

For the record, I'm not a Hagel fan but watching the rightwingloon meltdown over ONE OF THEIR OWN being nominated is very funny.

I agree. He had a 96% conservative rating. I believe he is also an anti-abortion nut.

 

[Synthaholic]

For the record, I am adamantly opposed to the outsized strength of those two foreign lobbies, also. Both have used their considerable influence to put wedges and roadblocks against closer U.S. relations with Türkiye. They both have enormous influence in California and Hollywood, also. In fact, about 10-15 years ago the son of Lawrence Olivier (I'm pretty sure it was him...) was putting together an epic movie about the life of The Great Man, Kemal Mustapha Ataturk, which was to star Antonio Banderas (which is inspired casting - he would have been perfect). Those two lobbies (especially the Hellenic lobby) squashed it, with Banderas and wife Melanie Griffith actually receiving death threats, which scared the shit out of them.

Now we know that your reasons are logical and not based on some knee jerk reaction. Thank you.

synth isn't a hater like dot and the randian idiot.

I do try to look at it logically and consistently.

 

[bodecea]

For the record, I'm not a Hagel fan but watching the rightwingloon meltdown over ONE OF THEIR OWN being nominated is very funny.

He could nominate Romney and they'd ***** and moan.

 

[Synthaholic]

It's about moving forward. As Ambassador Guest so eloquently states "I cannot claim I know Hagel well. But as a career diplomat, I had occasions to work with him and his staff. In that work, I found Hagel to be a man of integrity — honest and direct in his assessments and willing to seek common ground. He was true to his word. And if Hagel says he would fully implement the repeal of “don’t ask, don’t tell,” I take him at his word."

Don't judge Chuck Hagel by 1998 comment - Ambassador Michael Guest - POLITICO.com

i just think there were better choices to be made.

Opinions are like...

It is the President's Cabinet, and he gets to nominate who he thinks is the best considering all the stuff that goes into the nomination process and who he feels will carry out his policies and give sound advice to him.

C'mon, Dante - can you not think of any Democrats who are as qualified, or more qualified to be DoD boss?

 

[Ravi]

For the record, I'm not a Hagel fan but watching the rightwingloon meltdown over ONE OF THEIR OWN being nominated is very funny.

I agree. He had a 96% conservative rating. I believe he is also an anti-abortion nut.

Yep, he is totally an anti-abortion nut. And a gun nutter. He must have some redeeming qualities, though, because those things wouldn't affect his performance as SoD.