it wasn't a bow.............

[AnnECUCherry]

Fox news is owned 37% by the Saudis, maybe more, figure last time I checked.

You do not get it, so be it, citing Al Jazerra, please, you think the English version is a source. The news is anything but the news. Thats the problem. You are looking to TV for your answer and you will never find the answer. Your premis that the answer is in the papers has no bearing whatsoever. If you could find the truth in the papers Obama would never of been elected.

How many papers are owned by Soros, how much money did Soros give Obama, what is the Soros connection with the Saudis, What did Gerard Colby say in "The Will be done" about newspapers. Ya, I get it, the Messiah knows so much that for him to bow its above our intelligence. You are not going to find the answers by seeing what others think, especially when every source you go to is controlled by power and money.

For me this is not Obama good Bush baaaad, this is about the future, we are being sold down the river and have been sold down the river for forty years. You have no idea.

When I can go into the supermarket and buy a bottle of nice wine for 1$ and a pound of butter for 1.65$ I know there is a problem, did I say I was in Madrid, I am in Madrid, you do not have to tell me what the news in the world is saying I can turn on the TV. Last week it was all about Madonna, Than the G20 protests, now the terrorists they call pirates.

So when I see good wine cheap, butter cheap, butter is 4.50 a pound in hemet california, when I see the difference I know something is up. For one I know we are idiots in the USA, we will pay more for butter without thinking and WE WILL VOTE FOR A MARXISTS without thinking.

Obama bowed to the king, first president ever, if you are young you better wake up now, whats the worst that will happen if you listen to me, nothing, you will have another corporate controlled puppet, the best that can happen if you listen to me, maybe nothing more, but at least you wont post its not in the papers so it means nothing.

Read, learn, dont take my word, go to The Mark Levin Show » Audio download his shows and listen for a week, than see what you think, but dont stop thier, read books, old books, talk to people, which you are. I may not know much but I can see what spain has because I am here, I can tell you what they think because I am here, you know what they think, they think the news covered Madonna too much and that Obama is a concieted bore that speaks of himself.

Everything is about Obama and "look at me, I am black, bet you didnt expect this from the usa", I paraphrased, Obama did say that.

The guy has an idealogy and its not good for us, most likely if you really thought things through you would find out your are conservative. I have never met a liberal, I a have met ignorant people who call themselves liberal but just because you think you are liberal does not make you a liberal.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[KittenKoder]

what deal was obama offering....

I think you missed the whole point of the bow, it's not a deal or a "signature", it's a sign of mutual respect, reread my post.

i read every word.....you are changing what you said it means....you originally said......

"many great business propositions end in bows"

you have now ended up at respect.....

ok it wasn't a deal......why did obama bow to show respect....what is it about the king that deserves obamas respect....

That is what I said and have not changed it. You are somehow reading "every good business proposition is finalized by bowing" ... which is very different and nowhere near the truth. Ending a proposition with a bow is the same thing as a sign of respect, more universal than a handshake and can mean just as many things. The first to bow is often extending the opportunity to have mutual respect, king or not, they are the leader of another nation, the title and government may be different but how is that relevant. The bow itself, as I pointed out, is the issue brought to the table, this is merely an alternative angle to see it, but if you do not wish to I cannot force you to see the other angle.

However, from this angle you can see the opportunity to demonstrate to the rest of the world how these countries are arrogant and that they care nothing of respect, mutual discussion, or even peace. It could make us look stronger, more willing to work together for balancing out the world a little, and more united. Instead we are not, we are demonstrating that we are more willing (again) to hang our president out to dry.

 

[krotchdog]

Oh, baloney, krotch. Both DiveCon and I have posted several sources of statistics that prove you completely wrong.

Your source dont mean squat, you cannot even spell bologna.

I stated the truth, pure and simple.

Why did you not name the authors of your favorite arab writers, modern day writers, why do you state that teachers lie, teachers that state thier students in saudi arabia are all male, why dont you tell us how woman must cover thier face and never fall in love, tell us how the great arab writers are woman, that they are not married off while still children, yes, they are married, by the negotiation of men, while they are young, 12, 13, 14, and they have babies at that age, so your statistic tells us these young mothers, who have no choice in marriage, who are literally property, your statistic includes these woman.

You are nothing but ignorant. Come back and disagree than you are a liar. For I have now told you the cold, hard, facts.

A variety of sources have given figures within a reasonable range of each other. None were anywhere near as low as your suggested 42%.

But we digress.

Are or are not Saudis capable of receiving and comprehending news stories? If they are, why no comments from Saudis about Obama's greeting other than one describing it as showing "warmth"?

And BTW here are commentaries on the education of women in Saudi Arabia:

...women as a group have excelled academically over males in secondary schools, and the number of female graduates has outstripped the number of males, even though the number of girls entering school was considerably lower than the number of boys. The number of female secondary level graduates has increased more than tenfold, from 1,674 in 1975 to 18,211 in 1988. Calculated as a combination of the hours invested in those who drop out or repeat classes and those who graduate, it took an average of eighteen pupil years to produce a male graduate of general education, as opposed to fifteen pupil years to produce a female graduate....

At least two of the universities founded for religious instruction have integrated secular subjects and practical training into their curriculum.... In 1986 enrollment numbered 12,000 students with an additional 1,000 in graduate programs. More than 1,500 of these students were women. Umm al Qura University, originally a college of sharia with an institute to teach Arabic to non-Arabs, had grown to include colleges of agricultural sciences, applied sciences, engineering, and social sciences. Of its 7,500 undergraduate students in 1984, 51 percent, or 3,800, were women....

Saudi Arabia - EDUCATION

...Since the 1960s, Saudi Arabia has made substantial gains in the education of women. Primary enrollment rates for girls have reached 66%, with secondary enrollment at 64% and higher education enrollment at 25%, versus enrollment for men at 69%, 71% and 20%, respectively. 58% of all university students are women....

UNDP-POGAR:: Gender and Citizenship: Arab Countries

Nice, you can cut and paste propaganda, tell that to the 72 year old woman that just got 40 lashes for talking to two men not in her IMMEDIATE family. You think they made progress.

I only have one more question, Why does Carmin Bin Laden completely disagree with you?
Are saying this woman is a liar. Actually I have a lot more questions.

Are saying Carmin Bin Laden is a liar

is Carmin Bin Laden a liar

Is Carmin Bin Laden a liar

read her book, untill you read something other than a google search you are full of shit.

You realize that people pay to have your "studies and statistics" at the top of list. You think they do that because Carmin Bin Laden is a liar.

I wish she could read your comments and post, seeing how she isnt I can only speak for her best I can. Carmin would blow her top to here you.

What about the 13 year old girl that just got raped, is that progress, Sharia law found her guilty so they stoned her to death, is this the education you speak of. I bet the little girl would find comfort in your googled "studies and statistics" to bad you did not have a man that could of escorted you to the scene, with your face covered in black so the only part of the world you see is through a tiny sliver of black bigotry. Too bad, the girl would of found comfort in your words as those she has known for years stoned her to death.

So tell me, did Carmin Bin Laden lie.

Did Camin Bin Laden lie.

Tell me of the Saudi woman reporters that cover the news for the Saudi papers, must be one, you got "statistics and studies".

Tell us your favorite Saudi woman who travels as a man.

Tell us, tell us the woman go to the movies and meet a man and fall in love.

Pick it out of your study.

Obama Bowed to a brutal backward king who rules like a mad tyrant, yea, I called him a tyrant, that is what he is, its a backward religion and the Saudis spend billions to spread it across the land.

Obama did nothing about the terrrorists who you call pirates because he bowed to the king.

Obama bowed to the king of the worst country in the world, where woman are slaves.

Thats right I callled them slaves because that is what they are. I will say it again, watch me and thank me, the woman in Saudi Arabia are slaves.

All of you thank me, I am telling it as it is and the fools are argueing

I will say it again in case you cannot hear me. The woman in saudi arabia are slaves.

did you hear that, I will say is slower

The woman in saudi arabia are slaves, did you hear me.

I will say it again, how about louder

THE WOMEN IN SAUDI ARABIA ARE SLAVES

want more

the women in saudi arabia are slaves, they have no choice in marriage, they cannot divorce if the want, if they want to leave the country they cannot, the must escape, that is the culture, that is the truth,

there, I educated you, thank me,


all of you thank me, I educated a statist

thank me, thank me.

maybe you forgot what I said, here, listen here it comes

the woman in saudi arabia are slaves and obama bowed to thier king.

shove you studies, shove your statistics, they have no place in the usa while little girls get stoned to death and women are slaves.

so is carmin bin laden a liar/

I got to take a deep breath, I am too old for this, I okay, I am find but just in case you dont get it

Women are slaves in Saudi Arabia

 

[AnnECUCherry]

Your source dont mean squat, you cannot even spell bologna.

I stated the truth, pure and simple.

Why did you not name the authors of your favorite arab writers, modern day writers, why do you state that teachers lie, teachers that state thier students in saudi arabia are all male, why dont you tell us how woman must cover thier face and never fall in love, tell us how the great arab writers are woman, that they are not married off while still children, yes, they are married, by the negotiation of men, while they are young, 12, 13, 14, and they have babies at that age, so your statistic tells us these young mothers, who have no choice in marriage, who are literally property, your statistic includes these woman.

You are nothing but ignorant. Come back and disagree than you are a liar. For I have now told you the cold, hard, facts.

A variety of sources have given figures within a reasonable range of each other. None were anywhere near as low as your suggested 42%.

But we digress.

Are or are not Saudis capable of receiving and comprehending news stories? If they are, why no comments from Saudis about Obama's greeting other than one describing it as showing "warmth"?

And BTW here are commentaries on the education of women in Saudi Arabia:

...women as a group have excelled academically over males in secondary schools, and the number of female graduates has outstripped the number of males, even though the number of girls entering school was considerably lower than the number of boys. The number of female secondary level graduates has increased more than tenfold, from 1,674 in 1975 to 18,211 in 1988. Calculated as a combination of the hours invested in those who drop out or repeat classes and those who graduate, it took an average of eighteen pupil years to produce a male graduate of general education, as opposed to fifteen pupil years to produce a female graduate....

At least two of the universities founded for religious instruction have integrated secular subjects and practical training into their curriculum.... In 1986 enrollment numbered 12,000 students with an additional 1,000 in graduate programs. More than 1,500 of these students were women. Umm al Qura University, originally a college of sharia with an institute to teach Arabic to non-Arabs, had grown to include colleges of agricultural sciences, applied sciences, engineering, and social sciences. Of its 7,500 undergraduate students in 1984, 51 percent, or 3,800, were women....

Saudi Arabia - EDUCATION

...Since the 1960s, Saudi Arabia has made substantial gains in the education of women. Primary enrollment rates for girls have reached 66%, with secondary enrollment at 64% and higher education enrollment at 25%, versus enrollment for men at 69%, 71% and 20%, respectively. 58% of all university students are women....

UNDP-POGAR:: Gender and Citizenship: Arab Countries

Nice, you can cut and paste propaganda, tell that to the 72 year old woman that just got 40 lashes for talking to two men not in her IMMEDIATE family. You think they made progress.

I only have one more question, Why does Carmin Bin Laden completely disagree with you?
Are saying this woman is a liar. Actually I have a lot more questions.

Are saying Carmin Bin Laden is a liar

is Carmin Bin Laden a liar

Is Carmin Bin Laden a liar

read her book, untill you read something other than a google search you are full of shit.

You realize that people pay to have your "studies and statistics" at the top of list. You think they do that because Carmin Bin Laden is a liar.

I wish she could read your comments and post, seeing how she isnt I can only speak for her best I can. Carmin would blow her top to here you.

What about the 13 year old girl that just got raped, is that progress, Sharia law found her guilty so they stoned her to death, is this the education you speak of. I bet the little girl would find comfort in your googled "studies and statistics" to bad you did not have a man that could of escorted you to the scene, with your face covered in black so the only part of the world you see is through a tiny sliver of black bigotry. Too bad, the girl would of found comfort in your words as those she has known for years stoned her to death.

So tell me, did Carmin Bin Laden lie.

Did Camin Bin Laden lie.

Tell me of the Saudi woman reporters that cover the news for the Saudi papers, must be one, you got "statistics and studies".

Tell us your favorite Saudi woman who travels as a man.

Tell us, tell us the woman go to the movies and meet a man and fall in love.

Pick it out of your study.

Obama Bowed to a brutal backward king who rules like a mad tyrant, yea, I called him a tyrant, that is what he is, its a backward religion and the Saudis spend billions to spread it across the land.

Obama did nothing about the terrrorists who you call pirates because he bowed to the king.

Obama bowed to the king of the worst country in the world, where woman are slaves.

Thats right I callled them slaves because that is what they are. I will say it again, watch me and thank me, the woman in Saudi Arabia are slaves.

All of you thank me, I am telling it as it is and the fools are argueing

I will say it again in case you cannot hear me. The woman in saudi arabia are slaves.

did you hear that, I will say is slower

The woman in saudi arabia are slaves, did you hear me.

I will say it again, how about louder

THE WOMEN IN SAUDI ARABIA ARE SLAVES

want more

the women in saudi arabia are slaves, they have no choice in marriage, they cannot divorce if the want, if they want to leave the country they cannot, the must escape, that is the culture, that is the truth,

there, I educated you, thank me,


all of you thank me, I educated a statist

thank me, thank me.

maybe you forgot what I said, here, listen here it comes

the woman in saudi arabia are slaves and obama bowed to thier king.

shove you studies, shove your statistics, they have no place in the usa while little girls get stoned to death and women are slaves.

so is carmin bin laden a liar/

I got to take a deep breath, I am too old for this, I okay, I am find but just in case you dont get it

Women are slaves in Saudi Arabia

krotch, you have carried this off into the wild blue yonder.

No one (that I know of) in this discussion has said that life for women in Saudi Arabia is great.

I repeat: The only reason the literacy rate in Saudi Arabia was even brought up was that you attempted to dispute that Saudi citizens have sufficient literacy and access to news to comment on Obama's greeting.

Your thesis has been disproved.

(Methinks rice wine is waaaay too cheap in Spain!)

 

[krotchdog]

You did not answer the question

Is carmin bin laden a liar

you describe a 13 year old girl as being stoned to death as not great
woman cannot leave the country, its against the law, and its simply not great


Woman are slaves in Saudi Arabia and are uneducated, period.

The wine is Spain is Rioja, you dont even know that, and I did talk about Sake (not rice wine) with a man from japan last night.

You dont know wine, you dont know nothing but what you googled.

This is why the world sucks and this is the why the world sees us poorly.

Its because Obama bows to a tryant that owns women, thats right the saudi king owns dozens of women.

The only reason I get pissed is because you google and think that the studies you can produce prove anything.


Carmin Bin Laden literally escaped from Saudi Arabia.

the only reason blah, blah, blah,

tell me how you feel about the little girl

oh you did, here is what you said

yep you said its not great for women

stoned to death, its not great, but........

owned as slaves, its not great.............

unable to escape, in not great.............

You could not even say it was bad, you said it was better than bad, it just isnt great.


Woman are slaves in Saudi Arabia and Obama bowed to the King of Slaves, the Saudi king, the only country in the world named after its current leader, where woman are slaves and if a girl gets raped she is stoned to death.

But I am wrong, it was not a bow, Obama was merely showing respect because we respect when a King can show the world the proper way to tread woman and little girls. We must respect that.

A thesis, nope not at all, its just the facts, pure fact.

Why do you not have a problem with that, so dismissive.

So those who care, go to the used book store, go the section of the middle east. you do not have to buy the book but just thumb through some and read the stories as written by those who have been there.

and just in case someone forgets

rice wine is sake, wine in spain is good if it say Rioja on the bottle

AND OBAMA BOWED OR SHOWED RESPECT TO THE KING OF SLAVE WOMEN, THE KING OF SAUDI ARABIA.

All hail and show respect, all hail and show respect.

so tell us, IS CARMEN BIN LADEN A LIAR,

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

It was a bow, which is a signal of subservience... Someone suggested it was a signal of mutal respect... which would be SUPER, IF the Muslim King reciprocated... He did not.

What ya saw there was a bow by a Muslim, to a Muslim King. A simple function of what's real slipping through the facade. A peek at the true nature of OZ.

 

[krotchdog]

It was a bow, which is a signal of subservience... Someone suggested it was a signal of mutal respect... which would be SUPER, IF the Muslim King reciprocated... He did not.

What ya saw there was a bow by a Muslim, to a Muslim King. A simple function of what's real slipping through the facade. A peek at the true nature of OZ.

Love that Avatar, the people here should thank you, I do.

Yes it was a bow but look how the sick mind works, they argue he was showing respect. I listen to the Rush and he says the libs respect tyrants. The King of Slaves, Saud (his kingdom is named after his family name, Saud) owns women, he marrys them while they are still children, the young girls do not fall in love, they are forced into a relationship with an old man, a tyrant, they are never allowed to leave the kingdom of saud, and the obama supporters tell us they respect the King of Slaves.

If the Obama supporters never get that than they liberalism is as Michael Savage describes it, a mental disorder.

I never thought I would see the menatility of the german people of WW II that willingly followed hitler but we see examples of this every day. You can point out a tyrant but it does not matter, maybe people are reincarnated and these are nazis in thier next life.

 

[Yurt]

if the bow was a sign of respect....name one other head of state who also bowed to the saudi king.

if the bow is traditionally a sign of respect to the saudi king, why did bush and other US presidents not bow? obama is the first US president to bow to a muslim king. kind of interesting, given his muslim heritage.

 

[C-101]

The only "bots" here are the rightwingers who have jumped onto a fantasy they claim as fact but cannot prove.

Wouldn't one think that if President Obama had greeted the Saudi king with a gesture that actually is "a symbol of subservience" or a "sign of submission," the Saudi press would have been all over it like white on rice with articles featuring headlines like "King Abdullah Owns Barack Obama"?!

So I did y'all's homework for you. I checked as many sources of Saudi news as I could find.

But, nope, no articles, no headlines, not even any photos with the cutline "U.S. President in King Abdullah's Highlight Film."

The only article I could find referencing the greeting included the quote Said1 has already mentioned: "...Suhaila Zainal Abideen, a Saudi woman member of the National Human Rights Society and Muslim World League, noted the warmth Obama showed by kissing the hand of King Abdullah...."


No mention of submission or subservience or weakness or transfer of authority.

And that one sentence is the only reference to the greeting in the fairly lengthy article. The rest of it discusses what President Obama said and how it was received by Saudi citizens:

"...Mohsin Al-Shaikh Al-Hassan, a renowned TV journalist and CEO of FarLimit, a PR company, said Obama’s positive statements about Islam, Muslims and the Arab world indicate that the America of the Bush years is changing.
'I have never thought that an American president would make positive remarks about Islam, Muslims and Arabs. President Obama’s remarks are indicative of a changing American strategy from the worst in the past to the best toward Muslims and Arab world,' he said...."

"...Many like Jaffar Al-Shayab, a Saudi writer and columnist, said: 'It is really good to hear something positive about Islam, Muslims and Arabs from an American president, which will definitely work to improve relations between the US and the Arab world....'"

Number 1: You still have about four unanswered questions from me.

Are all the G20 leaders except Obama disrespectful and arrogant because they did not bow to King Abdullah?

Why did King Abdullah not bow back?

Why did Obama not bow to Queen Elizabeth II?

If the bow was not important why did the CNN reporter bother asking about it?

Number 2: Opinions do not overrule facts. Everyone in the world could say that the Earth is flat and it still will not be true.

 

[KittenKoder]

if the bow was a sign of respect....name one other head of state who also bowed to the saudi king.

if the bow is traditionally a sign of respect to the saudi king, why did bush and other US presidents not bow? obama is the first US president to bow to a muslim king. kind of interesting, given his muslim heritage.

Differing cultures, much of how we see things is dependent on what cultures we encounter most in our lifetimes. There are many ... many countries that use the bow as the respectful "hello", more than those who use the handshake. Bush just had different influences in life. Remember, I live in an area with a vast amount of foreigners (mostly legal ones going to school here) and even I do the "half bow" reflexively as a hello (often referred to as the nod), which mixes the bow with a more American (less proper) attitude, but it's more widely accepted. Right now I can picture a lot of other countries who were first angry with the saudi now asking "what the hell are they mad at their own leader for?"

 

[Yurt]

if the bow was a sign of respect....name one other head of state who also bowed to the saudi king.

if the bow is traditionally a sign of respect to the saudi king, why did bush and other US presidents not bow? obama is the first US president to bow to a muslim king. kind of interesting, given his muslim heritage.

Differing cultures, much of how we see things is dependent on what cultures we encounter most in our lifetimes. There are many ... many countries that use the bow as the respectful "hello", more than those who use the handshake. Bush just had different influences in life. Remember, I live in an area with a vast amount of foreigners (mostly legal ones going to school here) and even I do the "half bow" reflexively as a hello (often referred to as the nod), which mixes the bow with a more American (less proper) attitude, but it's more widely accepted. Right now I can picture a lot of other countries who were first angry with the saudi now asking "what the hell are they mad at their own leader for?"

you didn't really answer any of my questions....so, if what you say is true, why didn't obama bow to ANYONE else like that? a mere hod bob to the queen and a full bow to a muslim king...and no bow to any other head of state.

why didn't any other leader bow to the king?

 

[KittenKoder]

if the bow was a sign of respect....name one other head of state who also bowed to the saudi king.

if the bow is traditionally a sign of respect to the saudi king, why did bush and other US presidents not bow? obama is the first US president to bow to a muslim king. kind of interesting, given his muslim heritage.

Differing cultures, much of how we see things is dependent on what cultures we encounter most in our lifetimes. There are many ... many countries that use the bow as the respectful "hello", more than those who use the handshake. Bush just had different influences in life. Remember, I live in an area with a vast amount of foreigners (mostly legal ones going to school here) and even I do the "half bow" reflexively as a hello (often referred to as the nod), which mixes the bow with a more American (less proper) attitude, but it's more widely accepted. Right now I can picture a lot of other countries who were first angry with the saudi now asking "what the hell are they mad at their own leader for?"

you didn't really answer any of my questions....so, if what you say is true, why didn't obama bow to ANYONE else like that? a mere hod bob to the queen and a full bow to a muslim king...and no bow to any other head of state.

why didn't any other leader bow to the king?

This can have many implications, which is why I don't judge whether he was right or wrong in this, but I pointed out why we should be focusing on the fact that the gesture was not returned by the saudi, it's the same argument used by die hard Bush supporters, yes, but it's a valid one. Within our country being unhappy with our leaders is fine, even productive at times, but our relations with other countries now hinges on our backbone thanks the the Bush administration. This is a bad time to show a lack of that back bone, for many reasons which can be a whole lot of other threads, so we should shift our focus just to maintain that appearance of being a strong nation. If Obama did bow as a sign of respect, the other person should have returned that same sign to show their respect. It's clear they do not respect us since they did not return the gesture, why should we not be angry with the saudi over this? Instead people are just showing the other countries that we are still willing to just put our elected leader on the chopping block, which does nothing to help form strong relations, promote Democracy, or any of our international goals. No one will listen to Obama if we keep attacking him for such small issues.

We have plenty of reason to not like Obama (he's pretty much draining us dry) but using non-issues like this is counter-productive, but we have the chance to flip it if we do it quick enough, and if we do flip it we can gain a lot of ground with other countries, and may even make the entire Middle East realize we are tired of taking shit from them.

 

[Yurt]

Differing cultures, much of how we see things is dependent on what cultures we encounter most in our lifetimes. There are many ... many countries that use the bow as the respectful "hello", more than those who use the handshake. Bush just had different influences in life. Remember, I live in an area with a vast amount of foreigners (mostly legal ones going to school here) and even I do the "half bow" reflexively as a hello (often referred to as the nod), which mixes the bow with a more American (less proper) attitude, but it's more widely accepted. Right now I can picture a lot of other countries who were first angry with the saudi now asking "what the hell are they mad at their own leader for?"

you didn't really answer any of my questions....so, if what you say is true, why didn't obama bow to ANYONE else like that? a mere hod bob to the queen and a full bow to a muslim king...and no bow to any other head of state.

why didn't any other leader bow to the king?

This can have many implications, which is why I don't judge whether he was right or wrong in this, but I pointed out why we should be focusing on the fact that the gesture was not returned by the saudi, it's the same argument used by die hard Bush supporters, yes, but it's a valid one. Within our country being unhappy with our leaders is fine, even productive at times, but our relations with other countries now hinges on our backbone thanks the the Bush administration. This is a bad time to show a lack of that back bone, for many reasons which can be a whole lot of other threads, so we should shift our focus just to maintain that appearance of being a strong nation. If Obama did bow as a sign of respect, the other person should have returned that same sign to show their respect. It's clear they do not respect us since they did not return the gesture, why should we not be angry with the saudi over this? Instead people are just showing the other countries that we are still willing to just put our elected leader on the chopping block, which does nothing to help form strong relations, promote Democracy, or any of our international goals. No one will listen to Obama if we keep attacking him for such small issues.

We have plenty of reason to not like Obama (he's pretty much draining us dry) but using non-issues like this is counter-productive, but we have the chance to flip it if we do it quick enough, and if we do flip it we can gain a lot of ground with other countries, and may even make the entire Middle East realize we are tired of taking shit from them.

why is it you can't answer the questions i posed? this is a political board, people discuss virtually every political issue, hence we are talking about obama being the only US leader to ever bow to a muslim king. no other world leader bowed to the king. obama did not bow to anyone else.

and all you can do is talk about other cultures and how we should ignore the issue. you say it was a sign of respect, tradition....yet, you won't address why no other leaders bow to the king and why obama is the only US leader to do so. how can it be tradition? are you claiming obama has now made a new tradition of US presidents bowing to the king of saudi arabia?

 

[KittenKoder]

you didn't really answer any of my questions....so, if what you say is true, why didn't obama bow to ANYONE else like that? a mere hod bob to the queen and a full bow to a muslim king...and no bow to any other head of state.

why didn't any other leader bow to the king?

This can have many implications, which is why I don't judge whether he was right or wrong in this, but I pointed out why we should be focusing on the fact that the gesture was not returned by the saudi, it's the same argument used by die hard Bush supporters, yes, but it's a valid one. Within our country being unhappy with our leaders is fine, even productive at times, but our relations with other countries now hinges on our backbone thanks the the Bush administration. This is a bad time to show a lack of that back bone, for many reasons which can be a whole lot of other threads, so we should shift our focus just to maintain that appearance of being a strong nation. If Obama did bow as a sign of respect, the other person should have returned that same sign to show their respect. It's clear they do not respect us since they did not return the gesture, why should we not be angry with the saudi over this? Instead people are just showing the other countries that we are still willing to just put our elected leader on the chopping block, which does nothing to help form strong relations, promote Democracy, or any of our international goals. No one will listen to Obama if we keep attacking him for such small issues.

We have plenty of reason to not like Obama (he's pretty much draining us dry) but using non-issues like this is counter-productive, but we have the chance to flip it if we do it quick enough, and if we do flip it we can gain a lot of ground with other countries, and may even make the entire Middle East realize we are tired of taking shit from them.

why is it you can't answer the questions i posed? this is a political board, people discuss virtually every political issue, hence we are talking about obama being the only US leader to ever bow to a muslim king. no other world leader bowed to the king. obama did not bow to anyone else.

and all you can do is talk about other cultures and how we should ignore the issue. you say it was a sign of respect, tradition....yet, you won't address why no other leaders bow to the king and why obama is the only US leader to do so. how can it be tradition? are you claiming obama has now made a new tradition of US presidents bowing to the king of saudi arabia?

Really ... can you read the minds of the "others"? If so, enlighten us, because it seems that since all the focus has been placed on Obama no one even asked the "others".

If this had happened with Bush in office (surprised it didn't) the right would be crying for war and the left whining about how Bush screwed up, now it's Obama it seems the roles have reversed. Here's the thing, why not look at a middle ground here and consider that?

 

[Yurt]

This can have many implications, which is why I don't judge whether he was right or wrong in this, but I pointed out why we should be focusing on the fact that the gesture was not returned by the saudi, it's the same argument used by die hard Bush supporters, yes, but it's a valid one. Within our country being unhappy with our leaders is fine, even productive at times, but our relations with other countries now hinges on our backbone thanks the the Bush administration. This is a bad time to show a lack of that back bone, for many reasons which can be a whole lot of other threads, so we should shift our focus just to maintain that appearance of being a strong nation. If Obama did bow as a sign of respect, the other person should have returned that same sign to show their respect. It's clear they do not respect us since they did not return the gesture, why should we not be angry with the saudi over this? Instead people are just showing the other countries that we are still willing to just put our elected leader on the chopping block, which does nothing to help form strong relations, promote Democracy, or any of our international goals. No one will listen to Obama if we keep attacking him for such small issues.

We have plenty of reason to not like Obama (he's pretty much draining us dry) but using non-issues like this is counter-productive, but we have the chance to flip it if we do it quick enough, and if we do flip it we can gain a lot of ground with other countries, and may even make the entire Middle East realize we are tired of taking shit from them.

why is it you can't answer the questions i posed? this is a political board, people discuss virtually every political issue, hence we are talking about obama being the only US leader to ever bow to a muslim king. no other world leader bowed to the king. obama did not bow to anyone else.

and all you can do is talk about other cultures and how we should ignore the issue. you say it was a sign of respect, tradition....yet, you won't address why no other leaders bow to the king and why obama is the only US leader to do so. how can it be tradition? are you claiming obama has now made a new tradition of US presidents bowing to the king of saudi arabia?

Really ... can you read the minds of the "others"? If so, enlighten us, because it seems that since all the focus has been placed on Obama no one even asked the "others".

If this had happened with Bush in office (surprised it didn't) the right would be crying for war and the left whining about how Bush screwed up, now it's Obama it seems the roles have reversed. Here's the thing, why not look at a middle ground here and consider that?

why do you insist on coming up with your own theories and then when asked about how those theories can be accurate given the facts, you deflect and ask me to consider the middle ground? if you can't answer the questions, just say so.

i don't care about what the right allegedly would have done, i care about the facts.

fact:

obama bowed down to a muslim king

fact:

no other head of state bowed to the muslim king

fact:

obama is the first US president to bow down before a muslim king

fact:

the white house lied about it by trying to claim obama reached down with "two" hands when in fact obama bowed down with only one hand.

there is no middle ground, the whitehouse lied, tried to cover it up. those are the facts.

 

[KittenKoder]

why is it you can't answer the questions i posed? this is a political board, people discuss virtually every political issue, hence we are talking about obama being the only US leader to ever bow to a muslim king. no other world leader bowed to the king. obama did not bow to anyone else.

and all you can do is talk about other cultures and how we should ignore the issue. you say it was a sign of respect, tradition....yet, you won't address why no other leaders bow to the king and why obama is the only US leader to do so. how can it be tradition? are you claiming obama has now made a new tradition of US presidents bowing to the king of saudi arabia?

Really ... can you read the minds of the "others"? If so, enlighten us, because it seems that since all the focus has been placed on Obama no one even asked the "others".

If this had happened with Bush in office (surprised it didn't) the right would be crying for war and the left whining about how Bush screwed up, now it's Obama it seems the roles have reversed. Here's the thing, why not look at a middle ground here and consider that?

why do you insist on coming up with your own theories and then when asked about how those theories can be accurate given the facts, you deflect and ask me to consider the middle ground? if you can't answer the questions, just say so.

i don't care about what the right allegedly would have done, i care about the facts.

fact:

obama bowed down to a muslim king

fact:

no other head of state bowed to the muslim king

fact:

obama is the first US president to bow down before a muslim king

fact:

the white house lied about it by trying to claim obama reached down with "two" hands when in fact obama bowed down with only one hand.

there is no middle ground, the whitehouse lied, tried to cover it up. those are the facts.

I did address these, but due to a lack of lateral thinking you have ignored them. The lies of the White house I addressed much early "really, the White House lied? That's odd."

 

[krotchdog]

why do you insist on coming up with your own theories and then when asked about how those theories can be accurate given the facts, you deflect and ask me to consider the middle ground? if you can't answer the questions, just say so.

Why, its simple, why is the White House so adament it was not a bow, it is because the White House knows exactly what a bow means in the Moslem world. They understand the meaning, so those here who are argueing the meaning of a bow are disagreeing with Obama's understanding of the significance of a bow.

Obama Hussien Barack is a MOSLEM. Do you know that according to Sharia law and the Qu'ran a man born of a moslem is a moslem. The penalty for renouncing Islam by a man born moslem is the death penalty, they chop off your head. Anyone who protects a moslem who has renouced Islam is also given the death penalty.

So Osama Hussien Iraq is a moslem, bowed to the King of Slaves, showed the entire moslem world that he is a good moslem.

Obama's White House understands this and is bending over forward to obsfucate the facts. This point shows that Obama knows the significance of a bow in Islam. How does a man that is not moslem knowthe details of the religion.

 

[KittenKoder]

why do you insist on coming up with your own theories and then when asked about how those theories can be accurate given the facts, you deflect and ask me to consider the middle ground? if you can't answer the questions, just say so.

Why, its simple, why is the White House so adament it was not a bow, it is because the White House knows exactly what a bow means in the Moslem world. They understand the meaning, so those here who are argueing the meaning of a bow are disagreeing with Obama's understanding of the significance of a bow.

Obama Hussien Barack is a MOSLEM. Do you know that according to Sharia law and the Qu'ran a man born of a moslem is a moslem. The penalty for renouncing Islam by a man born moslem is the death penalty, they chop off your head. Anyone who protects a moslem who has renouced Islam is also given the death penalty.

So Osama Hussien Iraq is a moslem, bowed to the King of Slaves, showed the entire moslem world that he is a good moslem.

Obama's White House understands this and is bending over forward to obsfucate the facts. This point shows that Obama knows the significance of a bow in Islam. How does a man that is not moslem knowthe details of the religion.

 

[Yurt]

funny how you want me to change my thinking, yet someone posts something you don't agree with and its trolling.....

 

[KittenKoder]

funny how you want me to change my thinking, yet someone posts something you don't agree with and its trolling.....

Actually, he was trying to attack your post not mine, what makes it an epic fail is that you and he agree but he didn't see that.