It is sad that this is a big deal

[KevinWestern]

I want to thank all the Vets for Americas current state. We couldn't have done it without you.

Not only is this comment disrespectful, it also doesn't make any sense. You should revise, Mr. commie.

.

Why is it disrespectful? Do you think that Vets didn't fight for obamamerica and its unfair to blame them? That's the only way it makes sense.

First off, it should be a priority of our country to take care of the men and women that put their lives on the line to defend our flag - something we do not do that well right now. The Vets have a lot of legitimate things to complain about in this department.

Secondly, when it comes to the issue of Obamacare, I don't think to "blame the vets" as a first or even secondary source of responsibility. Sure, they might be pushing for it here or there but obviously our leadership squads and the Pharm Companies are the top individuals to place the blame on.

Blaming "the Vets" for the state of our country was an unfair dig that was designed to irk Oldguy specifically.

A "cheap shot".

.

 

[Esmeralda]

Hooray for Roy Costner IV!

Valedictorian Rips Up Preapproved Speech, Recites Prayer Instead


That's not the case with a valedictorian's speech at Liberty High School in Liberty, South Carolina. When Roy Costner IV approached the podium, he ripped up his preapproved speech. The crowd seemed a bit stunned, not knowing what to expect next. That's when Costner began reciting a prayer, the Lord's Prayer, word for word. Many students in the audience began applauding. The teachers and faculty members seated on the stage behind Costner did not visibly react.

So why did Costner choose this time to say a prayer? The stunt was apparently in protest of the new decision made by the Pickens County School District to no longer include prayer at graduation ceremonies. As you can hear from the students' applause, many of them agreed with Costner pulling the switcheroo and standing up for what he believed was right.


Yahoo.com

Valedictorian Rips Up Preapproved Speech, Recites Prayer Instead

So you are happy about the student going against the Constitution which mandates separation of Church and State? Or was this a private school?

 

[KevinWestern]

So you are happy about the student going against the Constitution which mandates separation of Church and State? Or was this a private school?

Personally, I think there's a difference between a student mentioning religious beliefs in a graduation speech vs. an actual educator mentioning religious beliefs during a teaching session or incorporating religious opinions into their lesson plan.

The latter's a big deal, the former is not.

.

 

[PratchettFan]

I want to thank all the Vets for Americas current state. We couldn't have done it without you.

Your welcome.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It only merits attention because the right wing blogosphere and "press" styled it as a reaction to the school' having "banned prayer." You can Google the kids name and find about 15 PAGES of emotional outrage, nearly all of it posted within a 24 hour period and most repeating the original "story" verbatim. Once again, somebody is feeding lies to the right and they're running with it in a predictable Pavlovian response.

The district did ban all prayer, even the sometimes permissible student led prayer, for the graduation.. The threat of lawsuits from a few disgruntled assholes who prefer imposing their beliefs on others to getting along with them forced them into that position.

The only problem is that the school did NOT ban prayer at all. But, who cares about that and who would bother printing or posting a retraction? Nobody. This is a classic example of how Christian's and right leaning voters are manipulated by the right wing press.

They banned prayers for the graduation ceremony, which is the only claim I have seen. Yet you keep arguing they didn't ban all prayers, and that somehow makes everyone else a liar.

By the way, when did Piers Morgan become part of the right wing press?

Valedictorian breaks school rule, recites Lord's Prayer during graduation speech ? Piers Morgan - CNN.com Blogs

Here's the facts:

Yes, he did do that. But, no, the school did NOT ban prayer and the revised policy does NOT apply to students, but only to the school board. Here is the policy as revised in April of this year:

Public Invocation

The board is a deliberative public body and will open its regular public meetings with a public invocation complying with Section 6-1-160 of the Code of Laws of South Carolina. The board will not begin meetings for student matters with a public invocation.

The public invocation will be non-sectarian and will not proselytize for or advance any one, or disparage any other, faith or belief. The public invocation is for the benefit of the board but no member of the board, or any other person attending the meeting, will be required to participate in the public invocation. The purposes of the public invocation are to express thankfulness for the right of self-government, solemnize the board's legislative tasks, dignify and confirm the seriousness of board meetings, encourage respect and appreciation for all board members, seek to unite and not divide the board, and contribute to the wisdom and soundness of decisions by the board.

The public invocation will be offered on a voluntary basis by a member of the board, rotating from meeting to meeting, in alphabetical order, or other objective method of rotation, among all members of the board. A board member may offer a moment of silence for silent prayer or reflection in addition to or in lieu of the public invocation.

The board member offering the public invocation will be guided by the invocations offered by the chaplains of the South Carolina Senate and House of Representatives, conformed to the board. Six public invocations by the Chaplain of the South Carolina Senate are attached as guidance for implementation of this policy.

PL_frm


That policy revision is a word for word repeating of the state law governing such things (referenced as Section 6-1-160) which was passed by the solidly Republican legislature and signed into law by Mark Sanford (R) in 2007, before he ran off to Argentina with his mistress. The new policy is not a "ban" of prayer, nor is it an assault on God or Christianity or anything else. It's just a new policy in line with state law and the US Constitution.


What gives this kind of crap such circulation? That's easy...most people don't read the whole article. In fact, most simply see the headline and take off. Even this sentence of mine will only be seen by roughly 10% of you who started reading this post. The rest have long since dropped out.

I didn't see anything about graduation in there, is that because you are trying to deflect? Get back to me if you find evidence that the reporters lied about prayer being banned from the graduation ceremony.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."

Yep. And, that seems to be the state of right wing politics these days. Worse, the targets of such a campaign of lies and distortions are WILLING participants in their own brainwashing. As evidence of that, I point to the huge number of threads which continue right on even AFTER the facts have been revealed. They simply don't care about the truth so long as the lie applies to Obama or "libtards."

What does it say about the state of your personal morals that you insist on misrepresenting the facts in order to score political points?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yep. And, that seems to be the state of right wing politics these days. Worse, the targets of such a campaign of lies and distortions are WILLING participants in their own brainwashing. As evidence of that, I point to the huge number of threads which continue right on even AFTER the facts have been revealed. They simply don't care about the truth so long as the lie applies to Obama or "libtards."

Eh, in 2009 you might have had a point there, but nowadays I think there’s plenty of legitimate factual information the conservative camp has to criticize Obama with. In fact, I think everyone should be criticizing Obama at this point.

I was upset at Fast and Furious and Benghazi, but sort of moved on. Obama’s drone usage also made me dislike him (especially given that he won a Peace Prize for ?). But when the IRS scandal hit, and the spying on AP reporters, and Fox reporters, and the collecting of millions of phone records, and now internet records (breaking as of today), I have to say that the picture the right has been painting Obama as (for the past 5 years) is shaping up to be pretty darn accurate.

Sorry for the elementary choice of words, but he sucks, lol. He has been worse than Bush thus far.

When a very left wing paper like the NY Times is stating that “Obama has lost all credibility at this point”, I think it’s pretty obvious that there’s no fact spinning going on anymore.

.

Do some research of the facts behind those very stories you mentioned and you'll see the propaganda machine still operating at full speed. There's a lot there, but not nearly so much as the right wing spin machine would have you believe.

Don't be a chump. Check out the facts.

I guess you are one of the wackadoodle conspiracy nuts that insists that the fact that the government admitted something does not qualify as evidence that the event actually happened. Fast and Furious, even though it actually occurred, is part of a conspiracy to make the government look bad because Republicans are racists.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Hooray for Roy Costner IV!

Valedictorian Rips Up Preapproved Speech, Recites Prayer Instead


That's not the case with a valedictorian's speech at Liberty High School in Liberty, South Carolina. When Roy Costner IV approached the podium, he ripped up his preapproved speech. The crowd seemed a bit stunned, not knowing what to expect next. That's when Costner began reciting a prayer, the Lord's Prayer, word for word. Many students in the audience began applauding. The teachers and faculty members seated on the stage behind Costner did not visibly react.

So why did Costner choose this time to say a prayer? The stunt was apparently in protest of the new decision made by the Pickens County School District to no longer include prayer at graduation ceremonies. As you can hear from the students' applause, many of them agreed with Costner pulling the switcheroo and standing up for what he believed was right.


Yahoo.com

Valedictorian Rips Up Preapproved Speech, Recites Prayer Instead

So you are happy about the student going against the Constitution which mandates separation of Church and State? Or was this a private school?

How is a private citizen exercising his 1st Amendment rights a violation of the Constitution?

 

[Oldguy]

The district did ban all prayer, even the sometimes permissible student led prayer, for the graduation.. The threat of lawsuits from a few disgruntled assholes who prefer imposing their beliefs on others to getting along with them forced them into that position.

I've seen nothing to indicate that. Proof, please.

They banned prayers for the graduation ceremony, which is the only claim I have seen.

They did? Show me.

 

[Esmeralda]

So you are happy about the student going against the Constitution which mandates separation of Church and State? Or was this a private school?

Personally, I think there's a difference between a student mentioning religious beliefs in a graduation speech vs. an actual educator mentioning religious beliefs during a teaching session or incorporating religious opinions into their lesson plan.

The latter's a big deal, the former is not.

.

Personally, I think that if this were a Muslim student who was praying to Allah, people who are cheering this on would be having fits.

That is why we should always follow the mandate of the Constitution and keep religion and State separate. It has nothing to do with a few 'assholes' imposing their beliefs on others; it has to do with keeping true to the Constitution and its spirit.

 

[Oldguy]

Personally, I think that if this were a Muslim student who was praying to Allah, people who are cheering this on would be having fits.

BINGO! You win the cigar for the best post yet.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

So you are happy about the student going against the Constitution which mandates separation of Church and State? Or was this a private school?

He did not violate the Constitution in any way, shape, or form.

 

[KevinWestern]

So you are happy about the student going against the Constitution which mandates separation of Church and State? Or was this a private school?

Personally, I think there's a difference between a student mentioning religious beliefs in a graduation speech vs. an actual educator mentioning religious beliefs during a teaching session or incorporating religious opinions into their lesson plan.

The latter's a big deal, the former is not.

.

Personally, I think that if this were a Muslim student who was praying to Allah, people who are cheering this on would be having fits.

That is why we should always follow the mandate of the Constitution and keep religion and State separate. It has nothing to do with a few 'assholes' imposing their beliefs on others; it has to do with keeping true to the Constitution and its spirit.

Sure, if the kid was Muslim and gave a Muslim speech the audience would probably have a fit (because that religion isn't as popular in the states as Christianity). I would still feel indifferent to the issue, and would probably admire the kid for his courage.

As I mentioned, if a teacher in a public school was pushing his Christian beliefs onto kids, or a public school principle was ordering his/her teachers to teach biblical passages to kids, then yes... I'd have a BIG issue with that.

But an independent kid speaking his thoughts in front of (what seems like) a predominately Christian crowd at a Graduation ceremony? Who cares, I don't think there's any Constitutional implications here...


.

 

[Esmeralda]

Personally, I think there's a difference between a student mentioning religious beliefs in a graduation speech vs. an actual educator mentioning religious beliefs during a teaching session or incorporating religious opinions into their lesson plan.

The latter's a big deal, the former is not.

.

Personally, I think that if this were a Muslim student who was praying to Allah, people who are cheering this on would be having fits.

That is why we should always follow the mandate of the Constitution and keep religion and State separate. It has nothing to do with a few 'assholes' imposing their beliefs on others; it has to do with keeping true to the Constitution and its spirit.

Sure, if the kid was Muslim and gave a Muslim speech the audience would probably have a fit (because that religion isn't as popular in the states as Christianity). I would still feel indifferent to the issue, and would probably admire the kid for his courage.

As I mentioned, if a teacher in a public school was pushing his Christian beliefs onto kids, or a public school principle was ordering his/her teachers to teach biblical passages to kids, then yes... I'd have a BIG issue with that.

But an independent kid speaking his thoughts in front of (what seems like) a predominately Christian crowd at a Graduation ceremony? Who cares...


.

It is partly the principle of this that is important. What if a student of an unpopular religion started praying to a mostly Christian audience? Would they put up with it? Would they allow and respect his right to free speech? Not likely, not if he were Muslim.

And, btw, the principal is your pal. And don't you forget it.

 

[KevinWestern]

It is partly the principle of this that is important. What if a student of an unpopular religion started praying to a mostly Christian audience? Would they put up with it? Would they allow and respect his right to free speech? Not likely, not if he were Muslim.

Again, if a student of an unpopular religion started praying and got booed off stage, so what? Their choice to choose an unpopular subject and must face the consequences. Let me ask you, are there free speech implications for booing someone? Are we Constitutionally obligated to cheer for any student who stands up and speaks, regardless of whether we agree or not?

And, btw, the principal is your pal. And don't you forget it.

I'm lost here, Esmeralda. Elaborate?

.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

It is partly the principle of this that is important. What if a student of an unpopular religion started praying to a mostly Christian audience? Would they put up with it? Would they allow and respect his right to free speech? Not likely, not if he were Muslim.

Again, if a student of an unpopular religion started praying and got booed off stage, so what? He/she has to deal with that then as they chose to speak on an unpopular religion. Let me ask you, are there free speech implications for booing someone? Are we Constitutionally obligated to cheer for any student who stands up and speaks, regardless of whether we agree or not?

And, btw, the principal is your pal. And don't you forget it.

I'm lost here, Esmeralda. Elaborate?

.

Principle, not principal.

 

[Esmeralda]

It is partly the principle of this that is important. What if a student of an unpopular religion started praying to a mostly Christian audience? Would they put up with it? Would they allow and respect his right to free speech? Not likely, not if he were Muslim.

Again, if a student of an unpopular religion started praying and got booed off stage, so what? He/she has to deal with that then as they chose to speak on an unpopular religion. Let me ask you, are there free speech implications for booing someone? Are we Constitutionally obligated to cheer for any student who stands up and speaks, regardless of whether we agree or not?

And, btw, the principal is your pal. And don't you forget it.

I'm lost here, Esmeralda. Elaborate?

.

Principle, not principal.

Kevin wrote "If a public school principle was ordering his teachers...."

It's principal, not principle.

A principle is an idea, not a person.

 

[KevinWestern]

Again, if a student of an unpopular religion started praying and got booed off stage, so what? He/she has to deal with that then as they chose to speak on an unpopular religion. Let me ask you, are there free speech implications for booing someone? Are we Constitutionally obligated to cheer for any student who stands up and speaks, regardless of whether we agree or not?




I'm lost here, Esmeralda. Elaborate?

.

Principle, not principal.

Kevin wrote "If a public school principle was ordering his teachers...."

It's principal, not principle.

A principle is an idea, not a person.

Whoops, grammatical error.

What about the content of my response, though? Thoughts?


.

 

[Esmeralda]

Principle, not principal.

Kevin wrote "If a public school principle was ordering his teachers...."

It's principal, not principle.

A principle is an idea, not a person.

Whoops, grammatical error.

What about the content of my response, though? Thoughts?


.

I think if you keep to the mandate of the Constitution, you have no problem and no issue.

The founding fathers were pretty wise fellows. It was an issue they were very familiar with and knew the hazards of.

 

[Katzndogz]

Hooray for Roy Costner IV!

Valedictorian Rips Up Preapproved Speech, Recites Prayer Instead


That's not the case with a valedictorian's speech at Liberty High School in Liberty, South Carolina. When Roy Costner IV approached the podium, he ripped up his preapproved speech. The crowd seemed a bit stunned, not knowing what to expect next. That's when Costner began reciting a prayer, the Lord's Prayer, word for word. Many students in the audience began applauding. The teachers and faculty members seated on the stage behind Costner did not visibly react.

So why did Costner choose this time to say a prayer? The stunt was apparently in protest of the new decision made by the Pickens County School District to no longer include prayer at graduation ceremonies. As you can hear from the students' applause, many of them agreed with Costner pulling the switcheroo and standing up for what he believed was right.


Yahoo.com

Valedictorian Rips Up Preapproved Speech, Recites Prayer Instead

So you are happy about the student going against the Constitution which mandates separation of Church and State? Or was this a private school?

How is a private citizen exercising his 1st Amendment rights a violation of the Constitution?

The student is owned by the state. That's the only thing I can think of.