What's new
US Message Board 🦅 Political Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

It Ain’t ‘Just History’ If It Is Happening Now

OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
111,758
Reaction score
46,368
Points
2,300
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Liberal Liberals were even more pro-Freedom then Conservatives.

Sadly, modern Progressives are extremely Totalitarian.


Today, every iteration of 'liberal' votes communist, totalitarian.

Only conservatives are pro-freedom.

It is a mistake to believe otherwise.
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
111,758
Reaction score
46,368
Points
2,300
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Well, they gave away free cooking oil, also. They tried adding wine for awhile, but that didn't work out.

Of course that's where we are going with the Minimum Guaranteed Income programs.

Though that isn't how Rome fell, exactly --- it fell because of invasions by a whole bunch of different kinds of barbarians running over the border until they developed critical mass and took over. Like us now and Europe, too.


" Minimum Guaranteed Income programs."


Do you know that it has been tried and failed, already.

  1. The government conducted a study, 1971-1978 known as the Seattle-Denver Income Maintenance Experiment, or SIME-DIME, in which low income families were give a guaranteed income, a welfare package with everything liberal policy makers could hope for. Result: for every dollar of extra welfare given, low income recipients reduced their labor by 80 cents. http://www.policyarchive.org/handle/10207/bitstreams/12794.pdf
[The results for husbands show that the combination of negative income tax plans tested in SIME/DIME — which, as already mentioned, represents on average a relatively generous cash transfer program with a guarantee of 115% of the poverty line and a tax rate of 50% — has a significant negative effect on hours worked per year. Overview of the Final Report of the Seattle-Denver Income Maintenance Experiment]

a. Further results: dissolution of families: “This conclusion was unambiguously unfavorable to advocates of a negative income tax that would cover married couples, for two important reasons. First, increased

marital breakups among the poor would increase the numbers on

welfare and the amount of transfer payments, principally because the

separated wife and children would receive higher transfer payments.

Second, marital dissolutions and the usual accompanying absence of

fathers from households with children are generally considered unfavorable outcomes regardless of whether or not the welfare rolls increase.” http://www.bos.frb.org/economic/conf/conf30/conf30c.pdf

b. “When families received guaranteed income at 90% of the poverty level, there was a 43% increase in black family dissolution and a 63% increase in white family dissolution. At 125% of the poverty levels, dissolutions were 75% and 40%.” Robert B. Carleson, “Government Is The Problem,” p. 57.

[Ontario is canceling its basic income experiment Ontario is canceling its basic income experiment]​

(Though the Progressive Conservatives had promised to preserve the pilot project, Social Services Minister Lisa MacLeod said the government reversed course after hearing from ministry staff that the program didn’t help people become “independent contributors to the economy.”

“It really is a disincentive to get people back on track,” she said Wednesday. Ontario government defends move to cancel basic income pilot project | Globalnews.ca)




Of course, just because it is a failure, economically and socially, is no reason for Democrats to abandon it.
 

Circe

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Messages
7,619
Reaction score
2,336
Points
290
Location
Aeaea
" Minimum Guaranteed Income programs."


Do you know that it has been tried and failed, already.

  1. The government conducted a study, 1971-1978 known as the Seattle-Denver Income Maintenance Experiment, or SIME-DIME, in which low income families were give a guaranteed income, a welfare package with everything liberal policy makers could hope for. Result: for every dollar of extra welfare given, low income recipients reduced their labor by 80 cents. http://www.policyarchive.org/handle/10207/bitstreams/12794.pdf
[The results for husbands show that the combination of negative income tax plans tested in SIME/DIME — which, as already mentioned, represents on average a relatively generous cash transfer program with a guarantee of 115% of the poverty line and a tax rate of 50% — has a significant negative effect on hours worked per year. Overview of the Final Report of the Seattle-Denver Income Maintenance Experiment]

a. Further results: dissolution of families: “This conclusion was unambiguously unfavorable to advocates of a negative income tax that would cover married couples, for two important reasons. First, increased

marital breakups among the poor would increase the numbers on

welfare and the amount of transfer payments, principally because the

separated wife and children would receive higher transfer payments.

Second, marital dissolutions and the usual accompanying absence of

fathers from households with children are generally considered unfavorable outcomes regardless of whether or not the welfare rolls increase.” http://www.bos.frb.org/economic/conf/conf30/conf30c.pdf

b. “When families received guaranteed income at 90% of the poverty level, there was a 43% increase in black family dissolution and a 63% increase in white family dissolution. At 125% of the poverty levels, dissolutions were 75% and 40%.” Robert B. Carleson, “Government Is The Problem,” p. 57.

[Ontario is canceling its basic income experiment Ontario is canceling its basic income experiment]​

(Though the Progressive Conservatives had promised to preserve the pilot project, Social Services Minister Lisa MacLeod said the government reversed course after hearing from ministry staff that the program didn’t help people become “independent contributors to the economy.”

“It really is a disincentive to get people back on track,” she said Wednesday. Ontario government defends move to cancel basic income pilot project | Globalnews.ca)




Of course, just because it is a failure, economically and socially, is no reason for Democrats to abandon it.
Dems PREFER programs that fail. That's why they want to defund the police and not let police show up at demonstrations in Portland. And let homeless camp all over the streets in California with no body waste disposal, and all the rest of it we know.
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
111,758
Reaction score
46,368
Points
2,300
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Dems PREFER programs that fail. That's why they want to defund the police and not let police show up at demonstrations in Portland. And let homeless camp all over the streets in California with no body waste disposal, and all the rest of it we know.



Seems so.
To let voters in on it, they should re-name as the Failure Party.
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
111,758
Reaction score
46,368
Points
2,300
Location
Brooklyn, NY

Relative Ethics

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2021
Messages
1,417
Reaction score
534
Points
193
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough: there are only two choices for a victory in any election.

Every iteration of Liberal votes Democrat.....as do communists, socialists, etc.
I support Republicans -- I see them as the Lesser Evil.


Republican agenda is evil because it is not Liberal. Democrat agenda is The Greater Evil because it is much less Liberal then Republican agenda.

Most people are not evil.
 
Last edited:

Relative Ethics

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2021
Messages
1,417
Reaction score
534
Points
193
When you see that thousands number, remember that 3 million Americans die from all sorts of things annually, and that the most significant numbers occur from these causes: heart disease, respiratory diseases, influenza and pneumonia. Never the flu alone!!!!
Most of these deaths are simply old age.

Guns are used in over 33,000 deaths per year in USA.
 

shoshi

Platinum Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2020
Messages
955
Reaction score
518
Points
898
8. “What seems clear is that Biden’s inauguration marks the hegemony of an American oligarchy that sees its relationship with China as a shield and sword against their own countrymen.

Like Athens’ Thirty Tyrants, they are not simply contemptuous of a political system that recognizes the natural rights of all its citizens that are endowed by our creator; they despise in particular the notion that those they rule have the same rights they do. Witness their newfound respect for the idea that speech should only be free for the enlightened few who know how to use it properly.

Like Critias and the pro-Sparta faction, the new American oligarchy believes that democracy’s failures are proof of their own exclusive right to power—and they are happy to rule in partnership with a foreign power that will help them destroy their own countrymen.



What does history teach us about this moment? The bad news is that the Thirty Tyrants exiled notable Athenian democrats and confiscated their property while murdering an estimated 5% of the Athenian population.

The good news is that their rule lasted less than a year.” Op. Cit.
Prime Minister Bennett is meeting Biden in Washington to present a plan to counter Iran and talk Biden away from restoring the Obama nuclear deal with Iran. Let us see what becomes of it.
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
111,758
Reaction score
46,368
Points
2,300
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Most of these deaths are simply old age.

Guns are used in over 33,000 deaths per year in USA.


Guns are inanimate objects.
Yet you don't seem to complain about cars.
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
111,758
Reaction score
46,368
Points
2,300
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Prime Minister Bennett is meeting Biden in Washington to present a plan to counter Iran and talk Biden away from restoring the Obama nuclear deal with Iran. Let us see what becomes of it.



Best of luck to him.
 

shoshi

Platinum Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2020
Messages
955
Reaction score
518
Points
898
If Biden is capable of making decisions. Bennett has met with Blinken more than Biden.
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
111,758
Reaction score
46,368
Points
2,300
Location
Brooklyn, NY
If Biden is capable of making decisions. Bennett has met with Blinken more than Biden.

You're making a huge mistake to believe it is any one politician.

It is the entire Democrat Party behind the policies, such as giving nuclear weapons to 7th century savages.

I recommend this well constructed thread.



If the President knew what nuclear bombs do…why offer them to the world’s worst state sponsor of terrorism????





1.August 9 of 1945, Nagasaki. “75 years on, the horror of Hiroshima & Nagasaki bombings …the second attack on the city of Nagasaki at 11:02 am on August 9 killed and wounded hundreds of thousands of unsuspecting men, women, and children in a horrible blast of fire and radiation, followed by deadly fallout.

In years that followed, those who survived -- the hibakusha -- suffered from the trauma of the experience and from the long-term effects of their exposure to radiation from the weapons.”
75 years on, the horror of Hiroshima & Nagasaki bombings


1628510333808.png


1628510407687.png




This could be New York or LA or Tel Aviv if Hussein and the Democrats are successful.





2. Hussein Obama:
March 6, 2012, press conference: "And what I have said is, is that we will not countenance Iran getting a nuclear weapon. My policy is not containment; my policy is to prevent them from getting a nuclear weapon -- because if they get a nuclear weapon that could trigger an arms race in the region, it would undermine our non-proliferation goals, it could potentially fall into the hands of terrorists.”

Democrats lie about everything.



3. Did Hussein know about this?
The Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, commonly known as the Non-ProliferationTreaty or NPT, is an international treaty whose objective is to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons and weapons technology, to promote cooperation in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy, and to further the goal of ...
Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons - Wikipedia
Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons - Wikipedia




4. Hussein Obama’s singular foreign policy achievement:

Barack Obama was ushering in the age of the ‘Iranian Nuclear Bomb’ and fueling Iran’s war machine.
Barack Obama, the #1 funder of radical Islamic fundamentalism and of the world’s worst state sponsor of terrorism, in the history of the world.
Under Hussein Obama, the United States was the lead benefactor of Islamic terrorism
He gave his nod to ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons for 7th century barbarians.
Barack Obama, in addition to slowing the rise of the oceans, also made the world a safer place to be by funding the world’s worst state sponsor of terrorism while not restricting their ballistic missile program and, at the same time, supporting Hezbollah.
The best friend the homicidal maniacs in charge of Iran ever had was Barack Hussein Obama.
The big question about Hussein Obama was always was he Sunni or Shia…and with the Iran deal, we got answer.

Their Risen Yahweh



1628510647693.png



What was your analysis when you voted for this?
 

Relative Ethics

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2021
Messages
1,417
Reaction score
534
Points
193
Guns are inanimate objects.
Yet you don't seem to complain about cars.
Drugs are inanimate but they are banned.

Banning cars is impossible. I would not object to banning motorcycles.
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
111,758
Reaction score
46,368
Points
2,300
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Drugs are inanimate but they are banned.

Banning cars is impossible. I would not object to banning motorcycles.


How about garden tools....?

Wanna ban them, too?

It is the human that need be focused on, not the implement.


And, no, people are not good.

As a general rule, individuals are self-aggrandizing. And their basis method is rationalization, so as to see the 'good' as that which benefits them.

1. This is not the same as saying that people are bad.


2. If we take the good and bad at the extremes, I'll call James Madison as my first witness. He wrote the following in Federalist #51: “If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary... A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions.” So, the checks and balances are needed because folks are not....'good.' At least, not angels.​

3. Now, here's an example of why one cannot view people as unqualifiedly good. There are aspects that most folks share, and we refer to human nature. Given the choice of being happy or not, most would want to be so. I contend that in order for one to be happy, the most important element in our nature, is gratitude. The happiest folks are those who recognize what has been given to them, done for them, been provided for them. But, and this is also an aspect of human nature: it doesn't last. To remain grateful, one must constantly remind oneself to be so.​

a. If people were 'good,' why wouldn't folks remain grateful? Compare that to this aspect of human nature: people always remember evil or some slight that has been done. And...get this: one thing folks never have to be reminded to do is to recall every slight and injury done to 'em!​



4. “There are mature and immature people all across the political spectrum. But Leftist positions are unusually childlike – because Left-wing positions are nearly all based on identifying one’s wishes with reality. ..The Left would like to believe that people are basically good. Therefore the Left declares people to be basically good…..The Left would like to believe that all countries, cultures, and individuals want the same things-a peaceful, tolerant, open, free society. Therefore, they believe it. "​

Dennis Prager’s “Still the Best Hope” reviews the Evils of the Hysterical American Left


a. If one believes that people are 'good,' then every conflict can be settled through negotiations, that war solves nothing, and one can avoid recognizing evil. Feelings matter more than truth.​

Usuall...'What is right' takes a backseat to 'what is right for me.'​


5. One more? OK...if all people are good, they would choose only the good to lead them. Doesn't that make sense? Imagine that an elected official had to vote on the following bill:

"If a baby happens to be born healthy, even though the intention of both mother and doctor had been to abort the child......

...let's make certain that swift medical attention is provided."



a. Kinda like what would be done in the case of an auto accident. If there is an injury...good folks would see that medical care is provided.....even if the injured party was a bank robber trying to escape....right?



b. But if that official decides not to agree to the procedure, and instead acts in such a way

that the infant is simply set aside to languish until it dies...



c. Is that official proof that people are "good"?



d. And, knowing of the official's view, e.g., that its children need not be "punished" by having to have a baby in the above situation....would any who voted for that official, in your view, be your "good" people?



So....people good...or has the history of mankind shown that people can be good....or bad.....they need to be watched, and kept in check by laws.

This is the great contribution of our Judeo-Christian foundation to Western civilization. The principles of justice are laid down in the Torah and the Gospels, and implemented through human actions memorialized in judicial codes.

a. The written laws and rules are codifications of the unwritten ones worked out over millennia as the result of human interactions and experience.

 

Relative Ethics

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2021
Messages
1,417
Reaction score
534
Points
193
How about garden tools....?

Wanna ban them, too?

It is the human that need be focused on, not the implement.


And, no, people are not good.

As a general rule, individuals are self-aggrandizing. And their basis method is rationalization, so as to see the 'good' as that which benefits them.

1) Knives and garden tools should not be banned. Guns are more dangerous. Similarly, cold medicine should not be banned. Fentanyl and strong narcotics must stay banned.

2) All people have sins and flaws. Perfect and sinless people do not exist. Most people are not evil. I am Jewish and I believe in Old Testament. Very few people will suffer eternally.
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
111,758
Reaction score
46,368
Points
2,300
Location
Brooklyn, NY
1) Knives and garden tools should not be banned. Guns are more dangerous. Similarly, cold medicine should not be banned. Fentanyl and strong narcotics must stay banned.

2) All people have sins and flaws. Perfect and sinless people do not exist. Most people are not evil. I am Jewish and I believe in Old Testament. Very few people will suffer eternally.

"Most people are not evil. I am Jewish and I believe in Old Testament. Very few people will suffer eternally."

Genesis 8:21for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth
 

Relative Ethics

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2021
Messages
1,417
Reaction score
534
Points
193
"Most people are not evil. I am Jewish and I believe in Old Testament. Very few people will suffer eternally."

Genesis 8:21for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth

Jewish interpretation of the Old Testament is much more complicated. I am not enough of an expert. Only those who studied for many years are experts. Most Rabbis agree that only very few people will suffer eternally.
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
111,758
Reaction score
46,368
Points
2,300
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Jewish interpretation of the Old Testament is much more complicated. I am not enough of an expert. Only those who studied for many years are experts. Most Rabbis agree that only very few people will suffer eternally.


I am using this for study:

1629999751519.png



I recommend it.
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
111,758
Reaction score
46,368
Points
2,300
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Jewish interpretation of the Old Testament is much more complicated. I am not enough of an expert. Only those who studied for many years are experts. Most Rabbis agree that only very few people will suffer eternally.

As for an afterlife....

“Often, in describing death, the Torah and the rest of the Hebrew Bible use the phrase “gathered to one’s kin.” Here, the Torah describes Abram’s eventual death as Abram going “to your fathers.” For reasons I will explain at length, the Torah never directly declares there is an afterlife. But throughout the Torah, an afterlife is clearly implied. Sarna notes, “In whatever form, the phrase certainly originates from the belief in an afterlife in which one is reunited with one’s ancestors irrespective of where they are buried.” Dennis Prager, “Genesis”


Prager states that that is where justice will be done.
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
111,758
Reaction score
46,368
Points
2,300
Location
Brooklyn, NY
The Great Yogi famously opined “'It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future'”

But just a tad easier if you know the past.



1. The take-over of a nation by an alien ideology is not new.​


“The Thirty Tyrants

The deal that the American elite chose … has a precedent in the history of Athens and Sparta

The example Machiavelli gives… is the friendly government Sparta established in Athens upon defeating it after 27 years of war in 404 BCE. For the upper caste of an Athenian elite already contemptuous of democracy, the city’s defeat in the Peloponnesian War confirmed that Sparta’s system was preferable. It was a high-spirited military aristocracy ruling over a permanent servant class, the helots, who were periodically slaughtered to condition them to accept their subhuman status. Athenian democracy by contrast gave too much power to the low-born. The pro-Sparta oligarchy used their patrons’ victory to undo the rights of citizens, and settle scores with their domestic rivals, exiling and executing them and confiscating their wealth.

The Athenian government disloyal to Athens’ laws and contemptuous of its traditions was known as the Thirty Tyrants, and understanding its role and function helps explain what is happening in America today.” The Thirty Tyrants




2. It is possible that some, the product of government schooling, have been trained to be oblivious of the take-over by a foreign ideology. The new ‘leaders’ are so proud of it, that they admit it openly:


Here is Tom Perez, who served as the Chair of the Democratic National Committee, proudly proclaiming the victory:


"MARXISTS AND EXTREME RADICALS SEEK TO TAKE OVER THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY
DNC chairman Tom Perez s
aid Democratic Socialists of America member Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez “represents the future of our party.”

DSA chapter chairs have agreed that “communism is good.”

One DSA caucus calls its members “revolutionary Marxists.”

A far-left group behind rising Democratic star Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is rife with Marxists and other far-left radicals.
The Democratic Socialists of America (DSA), which includes Ocasio-Cortez, is creeping its way into the mainstream of American politics.

What Perez didn’t mention is that the group behind “the future” of the Democratic Party is teeming with radicals openly dedicated to dismantling and overturning the economic and social foundations of the United States."
Marxists And Extreme Radicals Seek To Take Over The Democratic Party
Marxists And Extreme Radicals Seek To Take Over The Democratic Party


The Democratic Socialists of America behind rising Democratic star Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is rife with Marxists and other far-left radicals.
dailycaller.com





3. Their motivation in all venues, all institutions, all values and traditions is simply this: destroy.
Destroy all that is, to create their imaginary Utopia.
They desire to destroy all tradition, values, and attitudes, beginning with morality, and the family, and build their imagined Utopia here on earth.

"In this particular idea of the Enlightenment, the need to change human nature, and to eliminate customs and traditions, to remake established institutions, to do away with all inequalities in order to bring man closer to the state, which was the expression of the general will."
Talmon, “Origins of Totalitarian Democracy,” p. 3-7




And all they need is your vote.



The alien ideology that has taken over America is not just empty words.



"‘Woke’ US soldier threatens Americans, says they ‘become the enemy’ if they don’t obey under martial law​




 

USMB Server Goals

Total amount
$132.00
Goal
$350.00

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top