Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Who are you trying to bluff?

But even if not one single step was completed, there is nothing under international law that says the self-determination [Article 1(2), UN Charter] is subject to the approval of "Tinmore."

List the tenets of resolution 181 and see that Israel violated virtually all of them.

(COMMENT)

There is no list of principles, beliefs, or doctrines generally held as "required" in A/RES/181 (II) known as "tenents." There are 15 STEPS PREPARATORY TO INDEPENDENCE. Remember, there are no "requirements" in a non-binding resolution.

Once the Arab League violated Article 2(4) of the Charter, and forcibly interrupted the process of self-determination.

The Arab League external intervention without Security Council Approval voids program furthering Independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem, set forth in part III of A/RES/181 (II); to be completed not later than 1 October 1948.

The external Interference by the Arab League prevented the establishment of the boundaries of the Arab State, the Jewish State, and the City of Jerusalem shall be as described in parts II and III of A/RES/181 (II).

Most Respectfully,
R

Once the Arab League violated Article 2(4) of the Charter, and forcibly interrupted the process of self-determination.

They never attacked Israel.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Who are you trying to bluff?

But even if not one single step was completed, there is nothing under international law that says the self-determination [Article 1(2), UN Charter] is subject to the approval of "Tinmore."

List the tenets of resolution 181 and see that Israel violated virtually all of them.

(COMMENT)

There is no list of principles, beliefs, or doctrines generally held as "required" in A/RES/181 (II) known as "tenents." There are 15 STEPS PREPARATORY TO INDEPENDENCE. Remember, there are no "requirements" in a non-binding resolution.

Once the Arab League violated Article 2(4) of the Charter, and forcibly interrupted the process of self-determination.

The Arab League external intervention without Security Council Approval voids program furthering Independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem, set forth in part III of A/RES/181 (II); to be completed not later than 1 October 1948.

The external Interference by the Arab League prevented the establishment of the boundaries of the Arab State, the Jewish State, and the City of Jerusalem shall be as described in parts II and III of A/RES/181 (II).

Most Respectfully,
R

Once the Arab League violated Article 2(4) of the Charter, and forcibly interrupted the process of self-determination.

They never attacked Israel.

They never attacked Israel.


Well, whoever they attacked kicked their asses. Then and multiple times since.
Longest string of losses since the Chicago Cubs.

 

[member]

RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I cannot believe you said this...

Let me know when Palestine and Israel sign that document.

(COMMENT)

Neither "Palestine" nor "Israel" existed at the time and therefore, were not competent to enter into a treaty under international law.

It does not matter what you think on the matter of implementation. It only matters what works (politically) and the outcome (in reality).

Whatever you might think, there was a State of Israel created in May 1948. The Arab League objected, a war was fought, and the State of Israel prevailed.

Most Respectfully,
R

But that had nothing to do with resolution 181. Neither party wanted it.

". . .But that had nothing to do with resolution 181. Neither party wanted it."



i see what they want. it has nothing tp do with life or resolution #181, mandate subsection 2.14 and how the jews lived there before "them."

people know how you muscled your way in:

 

[Shusha]

The creation of Israel in Palestine has many problems.

Such as?

Particularly in reference to Rocco's comment, repeated below:

There is nothing under International Law that limits the rights of the Jewish people in regards to:

(a) The right to self-determination, without external interference from the Arab League, in the establishment of an independent state;

(b) The right to establish its own independent sovereign State;​

Since you are continually prattling on about peoples' rights to self-determination, please divulge under what conditions a people is NOT entitled to this fundamental, inherent human right, and QUOTE your SOURCE MATERIAL.

 

[Shusha]

Load of hooey, Rocco. Israel violated virtually everything in Resolution 181 ...

I would be VERY interested to see you detail exactly which Articles you think were violated by Israel.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The creation of Israel in Palestine has many problems.

Such as?

Particularly in reference to Rocco's comment, repeated below:

There is nothing under International Law that limits the rights of the Jewish people in regards to:

(a) The right to self-determination, without external interference from the Arab League, in the establishment of an independent state;

(b) The right to establish its own independent sovereign State;​

Since you are continually prattling on about peoples' rights to self-determination, please divulge under what conditions a people is NOT entitled to this fundamental, inherent human right, and QUOTE your SOURCE MATERIAL.

(a) The right to self-determination, without external interference from the Arab League, in the establishment of an independent state;

It is the people of the place who have the right to self determination without external interference.

The French have the right to self determination in France. They don't in Britain.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Load of hooey, Rocco. Israel violated virtually everything in Resolution 181 ...

I would be VERY interested to see you detail exactly which Articles you think were violated by Israel.

Why do you post here when you know so little?

• The proposed borders.
• Jerusalem a separate city.
• The militaries of the new states will ultimately be under UN control.
• All of the Palestinian citizens who normally live in the territory that becomes the Jewish will be citizens of that state.

There are a few.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Load of hooey, Rocco. Israel violated virtually everything in Resolution 181 ...

I would be VERY interested to see you detail exactly which Articles you think were violated by Israel.

Why do you post here when you know so little?

• The proposed borders.
• Jerusalem a separate city.
• The militaries of the new states will ultimately be under UN control.
• All of the Palestinian citizens who normally live in the territory that becomes the Jewish will be citizens of that state.

There are a few.

I don't understand your last point. 20% of Israel proper's population is Arab. They are full citizens. Some call themselves Israeli Arabs, while some call themselves Palestinian. Mohammed Zoabi and his mom, for instance, are proud Israeli Arabs.
It is true that the Arabs who live in the West Bank and Gaza aren't Israeli citizens.

 

[watchingfromafar]

There was no Palestine in 1946.
Let alone one owned by Arabs.

There was "NO" state called Israel prior to 1947ad
By 2025 there will no state called Israel, gone & not to be remembered
It Has Been Written
King James Bible
Ezekiel 21:32
Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.

And So It Will Be Done
-

 

[Shusha]

Load of hooey, Rocco. Israel violated virtually everything in Resolution 181 ...

I would be VERY interested to see you detail exactly which Articles you think were violated by Israel.

Why do you post here when you know so little?

• The proposed borders.
• Jerusalem a separate city.
• The militaries of the new states will ultimately be under UN control.
• All of the Palestinian citizens who normally live in the territory that becomes the Jewish will be citizens of that state.

There are a few.

Well, you haven't named any particular Articles, let alone detailed how and when you think Israel violated them.

 

[RoccoR]

)RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This little change that you make, is "false information which is intended to mislead." (AKA: Disinformation)

The legal strength of the claim to "self-determination" comes from two binding sources:

To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;

AND

All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

BOTH are binding.

(a) The right to self-determination, without external interference from the Arab League, in the establishment of an independent state;

It is the people of the place who have the right to self-determination without external interference.

The French have the right to self-determination in France. They don't in Britain.

(COMMENT)

What the "French" [with fond and respectful remembrance to Fr GEN Danial Morgan (AKA: The Marquis de Lafayette)] have • is irrelevant to the application in the Middle East.

The name of the resolution is: "49/148. Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination"
​

1. Reaffirms that the universal realization of the right of all peoples, including those under colonial, foreign and alien domination, to self-determination is a fundamental condition for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights and for the preservation and promotion of such rights;

The "RIGHT" is ALL INCLUSIVE (including the Jews) and NOT EXCLUSIVE of any peoples in the Middle East or any single nation within the Middle East. Now the International Covenant (binding) also says ✦→

The States Parties to the present Covenant, including those having responsibility for the administration of Non-Self-Governing and Trust Territories, shall promote the realization of the right of self-determination, and shall respect that right, in conformity with the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations.

Now, this has an implication that when people like you try to twist the meaning to apply exclusively to the Arab Palestinians, and not to the Jewish People of Israel, you are part and parcel of those involved in the obstruction and perverting the course of justice.

Now let me reiterate: The International Law DOES NOT say or imply that it is "people of the place who have the right" to the exclusion of the people of the Jewish State of Israel who continue to be obstructed from executing their right of self-determination.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Shusha]

It is the people of the place who have the right to self determination without external interference.

The French have the right to self determination in France. They don't in Britain.

I'm quite certain there is no international law which uses the term "people of the place" and provides a definition of that term.

You deliberately coined that nonsense term as a response to us reminding you that self-determination is a right for ALL peoples, as a way of trying to sneakily exclude the Jewish people from self-determination, because they aren't "of the place".

Let's talk about the French, for example. Do the French have the right to self-determination in, I don't know, say, Canada? Yes or no? What criteria do you use to establish your answer?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Load of hooey, Rocco. Israel violated virtually everything in Resolution 181 ...

I would be VERY interested to see you detail exactly which Articles you think were violated by Israel.

Why do you post here when you know so little?

• The proposed borders.
• Jerusalem a separate city.
• The militaries of the new states will ultimately be under UN control.
• All of the Palestinian citizens who normally live in the territory that becomes the Jewish will be citizens of that state.

There are a few.

I don't understand your last point. 20% of Israel proper's population is Arab. They are full citizens. Some call themselves Israeli Arabs, while some call themselves Palestinian. Mohammed Zoabi and his mom, for instance, are proud Israeli Arabs.
It is true that the Arabs who live in the West Bank and Gaza aren't Israeli citizens.

You missed the point.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Load of hooey, Rocco. Israel violated virtually everything in Resolution 181 ...

I would be VERY interested to see you detail exactly which Articles you think were violated by Israel.

Why do you post here when you know so little?

• The proposed borders.
• Jerusalem a separate city.
• The militaries of the new states will ultimately be under UN control.
• All of the Palestinian citizens who normally live in the territory that becomes the Jewish will be citizens of that state.

There are a few.

Well, you haven't named any particular Articles, let alone detailed how and when you think Israel violated them.

Resolution 181 is online.

 

[Shusha]

Resolution 181 is online.

Yes, I've read it.

Which specific Articles did Israel violate and when and how?

 

[P F Tinmore]

)RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This little change that you make, is "false information which is intended to mislead." (AKA: Disinformation)

The legal strength of the claim to "self-determination" comes from two binding sources:

To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;

AND

All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

BOTH are binding.

(a) The right to self-determination, without external interference from the Arab League, in the establishment of an independent state;

It is the people of the place who have the right to self-determination without external interference.

The French have the right to self-determination in France. They don't in Britain.

(COMMENT)

What the "French" [with fond and respectful remembrance to Fr GEN Danial Morgan (AKA: The Marquis de Lafayette)] have • is irrelevant to the application in the Middle East.

The name of the resolution is: "49/148. Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination"
​

1. Reaffirms that the universal realization of the right of all peoples, including those under colonial, foreign and alien domination, to self-determination is a fundamental condition for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights and for the preservation and promotion of such rights;

The "RIGHT" is ALL INCLUSIVE (including the Jews) and NOT EXCLUSIVE of any peoples in the Middle East or any single nation within the Middle East. Now the International Covenant (binding) also says ✦→

The States Parties to the present Covenant, including those having responsibility for the administration of Non-Self-Governing and Trust Territories, shall promote the realization of the right of self-determination, and shall respect that right, in conformity with the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations.

Now, this has an implication that when people like you try to twist the meaning to apply exclusively to the Arab Palestinians, and not to the Jewish People of Israel, you are part and parcel of those involved in the obstruction and perverting the course of justice.

Now let me reiterate: The International Law DOES NOT say or imply that it is "people of the place who have the right" to the exclusion of the people of the Jewish State of Israel who continue to be obstructed from executing their right of self-determination.

Most Respectfully,
R

What are "peoples?"

 

[Hollie]

)RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This little change that you make, is "false information which is intended to mislead." (AKA: Disinformation)

The legal strength of the claim to "self-determination" comes from two binding sources:

To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;

AND

All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

BOTH are binding.

(a) The right to self-determination, without external interference from the Arab League, in the establishment of an independent state;

It is the people of the place who have the right to self-determination without external interference.

The French have the right to self-determination in France. They don't in Britain.

(COMMENT)

What the "French" [with fond and respectful remembrance to Fr GEN Danial Morgan (AKA: The Marquis de Lafayette)] have • is irrelevant to the application in the Middle East.

The name of the resolution is: "49/148. Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination"
​

1. Reaffirms that the universal realization of the right of all peoples, including those under colonial, foreign and alien domination, to self-determination is a fundamental condition for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights and for the preservation and promotion of such rights;

The "RIGHT" is ALL INCLUSIVE (including the Jews) and NOT EXCLUSIVE of any peoples in the Middle East or any single nation within the Middle East. Now the International Covenant (binding) also says ✦→

The States Parties to the present Covenant, including those having responsibility for the administration of Non-Self-Governing and Trust Territories, shall promote the realization of the right of self-determination, and shall respect that right, in conformity with the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations.

Now, this has an implication that when people like you try to twist the meaning to apply exclusively to the Arab Palestinians, and not to the Jewish People of Israel, you are part and parcel of those involved in the obstruction and perverting the course of justice.

Now let me reiterate: The International Law DOES NOT say or imply that it is "people of the place who have the right" to the exclusion of the people of the Jewish State of Israel who continue to be obstructed from executing their right of self-determination.

Most Respectfully,
R

What are "peoples?"

What are “peoples of the place”

Link?

 

[P F Tinmore]

)RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This little change that you make, is "false information which is intended to mislead." (AKA: Disinformation)

The legal strength of the claim to "self-determination" comes from two binding sources:

To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;

AND

All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

BOTH are binding.

(a) The right to self-determination, without external interference from the Arab League, in the establishment of an independent state;

It is the people of the place who have the right to self-determination without external interference.

The French have the right to self-determination in France. They don't in Britain.

(COMMENT)

What the "French" [with fond and respectful remembrance to Fr GEN Danial Morgan (AKA: The Marquis de Lafayette)] have • is irrelevant to the application in the Middle East.

The name of the resolution is: "49/148. Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination"
​

1. Reaffirms that the universal realization of the right of all peoples, including those under colonial, foreign and alien domination, to self-determination is a fundamental condition for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights and for the preservation and promotion of such rights;

The "RIGHT" is ALL INCLUSIVE (including the Jews) and NOT EXCLUSIVE of any peoples in the Middle East or any single nation within the Middle East. Now the International Covenant (binding) also says ✦→

The States Parties to the present Covenant, including those having responsibility for the administration of Non-Self-Governing and Trust Territories, shall promote the realization of the right of self-determination, and shall respect that right, in conformity with the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations.

Now, this has an implication that when people like you try to twist the meaning to apply exclusively to the Arab Palestinians, and not to the Jewish People of Israel, you are part and parcel of those involved in the obstruction and perverting the course of justice.

Now let me reiterate: The International Law DOES NOT say or imply that it is "people of the place who have the right" to the exclusion of the people of the Jewish State of Israel who continue to be obstructed from executing their right of self-determination.

Most Respectfully,
R

What are "peoples?"

What are “peoples of the place”

Link?

That wasn't the question.

 

[Hollie]

)RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This little change that you make, is "false information which is intended to mislead." (AKA: Disinformation)

The legal strength of the claim to "self-determination" comes from two binding sources:

To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;

AND

All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

BOTH are binding.

(a) The right to self-determination, without external interference from the Arab League, in the establishment of an independent state;

It is the people of the place who have the right to self-determination without external interference.

The French have the right to self-determination in France. They don't in Britain.

(COMMENT)

What the "French" [with fond and respectful remembrance to Fr GEN Danial Morgan (AKA: The Marquis de Lafayette)] have • is irrelevant to the application in the Middle East.

The name of the resolution is: "49/148. Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination"
​

1. Reaffirms that the universal realization of the right of all peoples, including those under colonial, foreign and alien domination, to self-determination is a fundamental condition for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights and for the preservation and promotion of such rights;

The "RIGHT" is ALL INCLUSIVE (including the Jews) and NOT EXCLUSIVE of any peoples in the Middle East or any single nation within the Middle East. Now the International Covenant (binding) also says ✦→

The States Parties to the present Covenant, including those having responsibility for the administration of Non-Self-Governing and Trust Territories, shall promote the realization of the right of self-determination, and shall respect that right, in conformity with the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations.

Now, this has an implication that when people like you try to twist the meaning to apply exclusively to the Arab Palestinians, and not to the Jewish People of Israel, you are part and parcel of those involved in the obstruction and perverting the course of justice.

Now let me reiterate: The International Law DOES NOT say or imply that it is "people of the place who have the right" to the exclusion of the people of the Jewish State of Israel who continue to be obstructed from executing their right of self-determination.

Most Respectfully,
R

What are "peoples?"

What are “peoples of the place”

Link?

That wasn't the question.

Deflection.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, I've seen this argument before. Rather than challenge the content, they change the meaning to the plural form or the derivative to the basic word. It is a technique used to draw the attention away from the context and content in the discussion.

What are "peoples?"

(REFERENCE)

people /' pepal/ p/. n. 1 human beings in general or considered collectively:
the earthquake killed 30,000 people. (the people) the citizens of
a country, esp. when considered in relation to those who govern
them: the support of the people. (the people) those without special rank
or position in society; the populace: he is a man of the people. (one's
people) a person’s parents or relatives: my people live in West Virginia.
(one’s people) the supporters or employees of a person in a position
of power or authority: I’ve had my people watching the house. 2 {pi. peoples)
[treated as sing, or p/.| the men, women, and children of a
particular nation, community, or ethnic group: the native peoples of
Canada.
v. [tr.\ (usu. be peopled) (of a particular group of people) inhabit (an
area or place): an arid mountain region peopled by waning clans. fill or
be present in (a place, environment, or domain): the street is peopled
with hippies. fill (an area or place) with a particular group of inhabitants.

Link to Concise Oxford American Dictionary • Copyright © 2006 by Oxford University Press, Inc.

(COMMENT)

Stick to the intent of the content...

Most Respectfully,
R