Israeli court rejects Israeli nationality status

[docmauser1]

True self-determination in Mandate Palestine of 1948 would have required ballots not imperial bullets.

The mexicans know, indeed.

The Mexicans and other Americans I know don't have to worry about jack-booted SS-types kicking down their doors in the middle of the night and kidnapping their children. It's sad Palestinian parents can't say the same. Two-thirds of the Mexicans I know aren't denied the ability to vote for those who write the laws they live under; what are Israeli Jews afraid of? Ready for the big VOTE, Drivel?(or SPLASH)?

Drivel.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is nonsense.

P F Tinmore, georgephillip, editec; Hossfly; Alfalfa; et al,

Hummm, I guess that is right. There was no election. It wasn't an issue raised in the Implementation Process by the Arab Higher Committee; not once.

The government of Israel was imposed on Palestine by military force. There was no election. Nobody was even asked.

Three fourths of the potential negative voters were removed at the point of a gun before the first election.

Israel calls this democracy.

(COMMENT)

Oh, that is right. The Arab-Palestinians declined to participate; they immediately opted for war.

The Arab-Palestinians have no room to complain; no room at all. If they wanted something specific in the implementation, they should have showed-up to the meetings.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Palestinians participated constantly with the mandate. After 25 years the mandate had still not created the government that it was mandated to do. The mandate was a complete flop because it would not work with the people.

You can't blame the Palestinians. It was Britain that dropped the ball.

(COMMENT)

You know as well as I do that the Arab-Palestinian was offered an opportunity to create a State in Peace; PART II Boundaries 5/ A. THE ARAB STATE. They simply were not satisfied. They have never been satisfied.

The Mandate was a flop because it was sabotaged at every turn by the Hostile Arab-Palestinian (HoAP); not because the UK did anything wrong.

The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders. It goes back to 1939, to the emergence of the martyr Izz al-Din al Kissam and his brethren the fighters, members of Moslem Brotherhood. It goes on to reach out and become one with another chain that includes the struggle of the Palestinians and Moslem Brotherhood in the 1948 war and the Jihad operations of the Moslem Brotherhood in 1968 and after.

It is what it is, and the HoAP are what they are. You cannot deny this.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[pbel]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is nonsense.

P F Tinmore, georgephillip, editec; Hossfly; Alfalfa; et al,

Hummm, I guess that is right. There was no election. It wasn't an issue raised in the Implementation Process by the Arab Higher Committee; not once.


(COMMENT)

Oh, that is right. The Arab-Palestinians declined to participate; they immediately opted for war.

The Arab-Palestinians have no room to complain; no room at all. If they wanted something specific in the implementation, they should have showed-up to the meetings.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Palestinians participated constantly with the mandate. After 25 years the mandate had still not created the government that it was mandated to do. The mandate was a complete flop because it would not work with the people.

You can't blame the Palestinians. It was Britain that dropped the ball.

(COMMENT)

You know as well as I do that the Arab-Palestinian was offered an opportunity to create a State in Peace; PART II Boundaries 5/ A. THE ARAB STATE. They simply were not satisfied. They have never been satisfied.

The Mandate was a flop because it was sabotaged at every turn by the Hostile Arab-Palestinian (HoAP); not because the UK did anything wrong.

The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders. It goes back to 1939, to the emergence of the martyr Izz al-Din al Kissam and his brethren the fighters, members of Moslem Brotherhood. It goes on to reach out and become one with another chain that includes the struggle of the Palestinians and Moslem Brotherhood in the 1948 war and the Jihad operations of the Moslem Brotherhood in 1968 and after.

It is what it is, and the HoAP are what they are. You cannot deny this.

Most Respectfully,
R

It seems to me that Israel and the Palestinians have agreed to the two State solution so that the history of the past struggle is history...In my book the sooner each entity recognizes the other in secure borders the benefit will help stabilize both nations and the healing will begin.

 

[Hossfly]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is nonsense.

The Palestinians participated constantly with the mandate. After 25 years the mandate had still not created the government that it was mandated to do. The mandate was a complete flop because it would not work with the people.

You can't blame the Palestinians. It was Britain that dropped the ball.

(COMMENT)

You know as well as I do that the Arab-Palestinian was offered an opportunity to create a State in Peace; PART II Boundaries 5/ A. THE ARAB STATE. They simply were not satisfied. They have never been satisfied.

The Mandate was a flop because it was sabotaged at every turn by the Hostile Arab-Palestinian (HoAP); not because the UK did anything wrong.

The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders. It goes back to 1939, to the emergence of the martyr Izz al-Din al Kissam and his brethren the fighters, members of Moslem Brotherhood. It goes on to reach out and become one with another chain that includes the struggle of the Palestinians and Moslem Brotherhood in the 1948 war and the Jihad operations of the Moslem Brotherhood in 1968 and after.

It is what it is, and the HoAP are what they are. You cannot deny this.

Most Respectfully,
R

It seems to me that Israel and the Palestinians have agreed to the two State solution so that the history of the past struggle is history...In my book the sooner each entity recognizes the other in secure borders the benefit will help stabilize both nations and the healing will begin.

They're gonna have to recognize the 2013 borders and no Palestinian Jerusalem. Might as well get the signing pens ready.

 

[pbel]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is nonsense.


(COMMENT)

You know as well as I do that the Arab-Palestinian was offered an opportunity to create a State in Peace; PART II Boundaries 5/ A. THE ARAB STATE. They simply were not satisfied. They have never been satisfied.

The Mandate was a flop because it was sabotaged at every turn by the Hostile Arab-Palestinian (HoAP); not because the UK did anything wrong.



It is what it is, and the HoAP are what they are. You cannot deny this.

Most Respectfully,
R

It seems to me that Israel and the Palestinians have agreed to the two State solution so that the history of the past struggle is history...In my book the sooner each entity recognizes the other in secure borders the benefit will help stabilize both nations and the healing will begin.

They're gonna have to recognize the 2013 borders and no Palestinian Jerusalem. Might as well get the signing pens ready.

I think that with the UN approval of the non-member state to the pre-67 borders it won't pass muster with not only the Palestinians but Islam in general and will only invite further attacks by all of them over the years.

Israel has a tough pill to swallow, but she will if she wants secure borders. Having said that, Jews and Christians must have the freedom to worship on the mount to any peace deal.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is nonsense.

P F Tinmore, georgephillip, editec; Hossfly; Alfalfa; et al,

Hummm, I guess that is right. There was no election. It wasn't an issue raised in the Implementation Process by the Arab Higher Committee; not once.


(COMMENT)

Oh, that is right. The Arab-Palestinians declined to participate; they immediately opted for war.

The Arab-Palestinians have no room to complain; no room at all. If they wanted something specific in the implementation, they should have showed-up to the meetings.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Palestinians participated constantly with the mandate. After 25 years the mandate had still not created the government that it was mandated to do. The mandate was a complete flop because it would not work with the people.

You can't blame the Palestinians. It was Britain that dropped the ball.

(COMMENT)

You know as well as I do that the Arab-Palestinian was offered an opportunity to create a State in Peace; PART II Boundaries 5/ A. THE ARAB STATE. They simply were not satisfied. They have never been satisfied.

The Mandate was a flop because it was sabotaged at every turn by the Hostile Arab-Palestinian (HoAP); not because the UK did anything wrong.

The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders. It goes back to 1939, to the emergence of the martyr Izz al-Din al Kissam and his brethren the fighters, members of Moslem Brotherhood. It goes on to reach out and become one with another chain that includes the struggle of the Palestinians and Moslem Brotherhood in the 1948 war and the Jihad operations of the Moslem Brotherhood in 1968 and after.

It is what it is, and the HoAP are what they are. You cannot deny this.

Most Respectfully,
R

You know as well as I do that the Arab-Palestinian was offered an opportunity to create a State

The Palestinians did not need to "create" a state. You do not hear of Palestinians wanting to "create" a state.

Resolution 181 was about the Palestinians giving half of their country to foreigners.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Mandate was a flop because it was sabotaged at every turn by the Hostile Arab-Palestinian (HoAP); not because the UK did anything wrong.

What did Britain do to have an elected government in 25 years of mandate?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This certainly doesn't have a ring of truth to it.

The Palestinians did not need to "create" a state. You do not hear of Palestinians wanting to "create" a state.

Resolution 181 was about the Palestinians giving half of their country to foreigners.

(COMMENT)

These are diametrically opposed ideas.

If the Palestinians did not need to create a state, then how can they have any question on "giving half of their country?" That presupposes that they have a country which even your own citation on Humanitarian Law opposes.

No, deductively, there is something wrong here.

What did Britain do to have an elected government in 25 years of mandate?

(COMMENT)

The "right of self-determination" is about the population doing for themselves. Not having someone do it for them. In the quarter century before the vote and implementation of the Resolution, all the Arab-Palestinians did was create havoc, chaos and open revolt.

The Jewish contingent built, almost from scratch, a government, and over time gradually achieved some measure of autonomy.

Don't blame the Mandatory for the inability of the Arab-Palestinian in its shortcomings to exercise "self-determination" and establish its own democratic processes (elections).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This certainly doesn't have a ring of truth to it.

The Palestinians did not need to "create" a state. You do not hear of Palestinians wanting to "create" a state.

Resolution 181 was about the Palestinians giving half of their country to foreigners.

(COMMENT)

These are diametrically opposed ideas.

If the Palestinians did not need to create a state, then how can they have any question on "giving half of their country?" That presupposes that they have a country which even your own citation on Humanitarian Law opposes.

No, deductively, there is something wrong here.

What did Britain do to have an elected government in 25 years of mandate?

(COMMENT)

The "right of self-determination" is about the population doing for themselves. Not having someone do it for them. In the quarter century before the vote and implementation of the Resolution, all the Arab-Palestinians did was create havoc, chaos and open revolt.

The Jewish contingent built, almost from scratch, a government, and over time gradually achieved some measure of autonomy.

Don't blame the Mandatory for the inability of the Arab-Palestinian in its shortcomings to exercise "self-determination" and establish its own democratic processes (elections).

Most Respectfully,
R

Come on, Rocco, you should know better than to post this.

It looks like you are promoting an agenda.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

There in rests, at least in part, the problem.

Come on, Rocco, you should know better than to post this.

It looks like you are promoting an agenda.

(COMMENT)

All observations are taken by, one side or the other (if not both), as partisan criticisms excessively devoted to the other side of the issue.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[editec]

So because ARAB states are racist it's okay, then for Israel to be racist, too?

That's amusing much - jews are demanded and expected to be holier than the pope, while nothing of sorts and even less is demanded and expected from arabs, because enlightened ideas are alien to the latter, of course.

I said nowhere that I expect greater moral behavior from Jews.

I am not deluded enough to imagine that any people are inherently morally superior to any other.

You see, doc, I do not believe that GOD has a chosen people. Neither do I believe that GOD chooses to reward or punish a people for the decisions of their leaders.

I merely pointed out that the making one's defence for one's immoral behavior the immoral behavior of another is rather childish. (and very human!)

The Jews in Israel now have no choice but to fight for their survival... of that I am certain.

Likewis, the Palestinians in Israel now have no choice but to fight for their survival.

Neither of them has the high moral ground, mate.

IN questions involving nations, such moral issues are moot.

All nations are inherently sociopathic.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

There in rests, at least in part, the problem.

Come on, Rocco, you should know better than to post this.

It looks like you are promoting an agenda.

(COMMENT)

All observations are taken by, one side or the other (if not both), as partisan criticisms excessively devoted to the other side of the issue.

Most Respectfully,
R

I only see one basic problem.

I believe that the people of the place have the right to self determination without external interference as is clearly stated in the UN definition of self determination. They are the ones who have the right to live in their homeland. They have the right to establish their own government and declare independence.

You, on the other hand, believe that foreigners with guns can go to a country throw the people out and claim the place for their own.

I had asked you previously how the Palestinians became exempt from the international laws that apply to everyone else but I don't recall receiving a response.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't recall ever saying or claiming that "Palestinians became exempt from the international laws." I have said that "Palestinians operate in violation of very serious international laws" and not just property disputes.

I had asked you previously how the Palestinians became exempt from the international laws that apply to everyone else but I don't recall receiving a response.

(COMMENT)

For me, you have to be a little more specific. What law are you talking about?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[ForeverYoung436]

P F Tinmore, et al,

There in rests, at least in part, the problem.

Come on, Rocco, you should know better than to post this.

It looks like you are promoting an agenda.

(COMMENT)

All observations are taken by, one side or the other (if not both), as partisan criticisms excessively devoted to the other side of the issue.

Most Respectfully,
R

I only see one basic problem.

I believe that the people of the place have the right to self determination without external interference as is clearly stated in the UN definition of self determination. They are the ones who have the right to live in their homeland. They have the right to establish their own government and declare independence.

You, on the other hand, believe that foreigners with guns can go to a country throw the people out and claim the place for their own.

I had asked you previously how the Palestinians became exempt from the international laws that apply to everyone else but I don't recall receiving a response.

There are currently millions of Syrian refugees who have fled the civil war. Perhaps the Palestinians fled the war, and were not thrown out. I also take exception with you calling Jews foreigners to the Land of Israel. No Jew is a foreigner to that country.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

We differ on the definition of "external interference."

I believe that the people of the place have the right to self determination without external interference as is clearly stated in the UN definition of self determination. They are the ones who have the right to live in their homeland. They have the right to establish their own government and declare independence.

(COMMENT)

I see the "external interference" as the Arab League.

Again:

The right to self-determination in Palestine

The right to self-determination of both peoples living in Palestine, namely the Palestinians and the Jews, was confirmed by the UN General Assembly in Resolution 181 of 29 November 1947, which included the plan to divide the British Mandate of Palestine into one Jewish and one Palestinian state. The resolution was not legally binding, but merely recommended what the GA considered to be a legitimate mode of self-determination for Palestine. Nevertheless, it did express that a majority of states were of the opinion that one Jewish and one Palestinian state should be created in the area.

After the 1948 war, Israel was established on a more extensive territory than recommended in the partition plan. By entering into the Armistice Agreement with Egypt in 1949, Israel, demonstrated a sufficient level of stable and effective government of the territory to be recognised as a state by other states and the UN. Israel was effectively and lawfully established as a state, on the armistice territory, by secession from the Mandate of Palestine. A state for the Palestinians living in the Mandate of Palestine was never created and this unrealised goal still constitutes one of the core issues of the conflict.

SOURCE: Your IHL The right to self-determination Link

As far back as the Mandate, the Arab-Palestine was recognized as not having demonstrated that it was a people who could stand alone. In many respect, nearly 9 decades later, they still have not demonstrated that they can stand on their own.

"Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory."​

The Palestinian people, in terms of self-determination, have only demonstrated hostility, chaos, and confusion. In 9 decades, they haven't yet established a government that speaks for them. Even today, there is an argument as to whether HAMAS or Fatah, is the voice. Yet both have covenants/charters that violate A/RES/60/288 The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy. Both advocate Jihadist and Fedayeen activity in defiance of International Law.

No, they have not truly demonstrated that they are an Article 22 candidate for sovereignty. But they will continue to complain that they did not get their chance at self-determination.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't recall ever saying or claiming that "Palestinians became exempt from the international laws." I have said that "Palestinians operate in violation of very serious international laws" and not just property disputes.

I had asked you previously how the Palestinians became exempt from the international laws that apply to everyone else but I don't recall receiving a response.

(COMMENT)

For me, you have to be a little more specific. What law are you talking about?

Most Respectfully,
R

You are constantly implying that the Palestinians have no rights, that the Zionists from Europe had superior rights over the native Palestinians.

Now, could you be more specific about your alleged Palestinian violations?

 

[Hossfly]

P F Tinmore, georgephillip, editec; Hossfly; Alfalfa; et al,

Hummm, I guess that is right. There was no election. It wasn't an issue raised in the Implementation Process by the Arab Higher Committee; not once.

The government of Israel was imposed on Palestine by military force. There was no election. Nobody was even asked.

Three fourths of the potential negative voters were removed at the point of a gun before the first election.

Israel calls this democracy.

(COMMENT)

Oh, that is right. The Arab-Palestinians declined to participate; they immediately opted for war.

The Arab-Palestinians have no room to complain; no room at all. If they wanted something specific in the implementation, they should have showed-up to the meetings.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Palestinians do not have time to attend meetings when they're attending to more important matters. Such as divvying up the loot.

Over the past four years, the Palestinian Authority has managed to "lose" well nearly $3 billion in financial aid from Europe, according to a report by the European Court of Auditors that was leaked to Britain's Sunday Times.

The news comes just days after Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas publicly blamed Israel for his regime's economic woes.

The European Court of Auditors is an organ set up by the European Union to monitor income and spending by member states. In its report, the court revealed that $2.7 in direct aid to the Palestinians between 2008 and 2012 could not be accounted for. What's more, EU investigators who visited Jerusalem and the so-called "West Bank" were unable to access information or speak to Palestinian officials regarding suspected corruption.



Palestinian Aid Money 'Disappears' - Israel Today | Israel News

The picture in the article is of the canary eating cat. (or rat)

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, georgephillip, editec; Hossfly; Alfalfa; et al,

Hummm, I guess that is right. There was no election. It wasn't an issue raised in the Implementation Process by the Arab Higher Committee; not once.

The government of Israel was imposed on Palestine by military force. There was no election. Nobody was even asked.

Three fourths of the potential negative voters were removed at the point of a gun before the first election.

Israel calls this democracy.

(COMMENT)

Oh, that is right. The Arab-Palestinians declined to participate; they immediately opted for war.

The Arab-Palestinians have no room to complain; no room at all. If they wanted something specific in the implementation, they should have showed-up to the meetings.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Palestinians do not have time to attend meetings when they're attending to more important matters. Such as divvying up the loot.

Over the past four years, the Palestinian Authority has managed to "lose" well nearly $3 billion in financial aid from Europe, according to a report by the European Court of Auditors that was leaked to Britain's Sunday Times.

The news comes just days after Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas publicly blamed Israel for his regime's economic woes.

The European Court of Auditors is an organ set up by the European Union to monitor income and spending by member states. In its report, the court revealed that $2.7 in direct aid to the Palestinians between 2008 and 2012 could not be accounted for. What's more, EU investigators who visited Jerusalem and the so-called "West Bank" were unable to access information or speak to Palestinian officials regarding suspected corruption.



Palestinian Aid Money 'Disappears' - Israel Today | Israel News

The picture in the article is of the canary eating cat. (or rat)

Over the past four years, the Palestinian Authority has managed to "lose" well nearly $3 billion in financial aid

Abbas and Arafat were the selected oligarchs of Palestine. It is their job to "lose" money. Like in their foreign bank accounts.

 

[Hossfly]

P F Tinmore, georgephillip, editec; Hossfly; Alfalfa; et al,

Hummm, I guess that is right. There was no election. It wasn't an issue raised in the Implementation Process by the Arab Higher Committee; not once.


(COMMENT)

Oh, that is right. The Arab-Palestinians declined to participate; they immediately opted for war.

The Arab-Palestinians have no room to complain; no room at all. If they wanted something specific in the implementation, they should have showed-up to the meetings.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Palestinians do not have time to attend meetings when they're attending to more important matters. Such as divvying up the loot.

Over the past four years, the Palestinian Authority has managed to "lose" well nearly $3 billion in financial aid from Europe, according to a report by the European Court of Auditors that was leaked to Britain's Sunday Times.

The news comes just days after Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas publicly blamed Israel for his regime's economic woes.

The European Court of Auditors is an organ set up by the European Union to monitor income and spending by member states. In its report, the court revealed that $2.7 in direct aid to the Palestinians between 2008 and 2012 could not be accounted for. What's more, EU investigators who visited Jerusalem and the so-called "West Bank" were unable to access information or speak to Palestinian officials regarding suspected corruption.



Palestinian Aid Money 'Disappears' - Israel Today | Israel News

The picture in the article is of the canary eating cat. (or rat)

Over the past four years, the Palestinian Authority has managed to "lose" well nearly $3 billion in financial aid

Abbas and Arafat were the selected oligarchs of Palestine. It is their job to "lose" money. Like in their foreign bank accounts.

Then who in hell is supposed to take responsibility and pay the piper and put an end to this farcical comedy?

 

[P F Tinmore]

As far back as the Mandate, the Arab-Palestine was recognized as not having demonstrated that it was a people who could stand alone. In many respect, nearly 9 decades later, they still have not demonstrated that they can stand on their own.

"Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory."

Of course that is not true.

Palestine already had a functioning society with many different religious and charitable institutions.

They already had functioning local governments.

They already had a functioning economy that included international trade.

What they lacked most were national institutions like executive, legislative, and judicial branches. The mandate was supposed to assist the Palestinians in developing these institutions. After 25 years of mandate, Britain made no effort to create independent Palestinian institutions. Not only that, Britain trampled every effort by the Palestinians to do so themselves.