Israel Opens Dam Gates to Flood Gaza?

"...Let's hope we both agree it's better for the world if it doesn't come to that. If it does, the world will not favor the Jews anymore than it favored the US in Iraq."
Quite honestly, I don't know what's better for 'the world' in this context. I'm on record as believing that the Israelis will eventually have no choice but to clear-out Gaza and the West Bank as a matter of survival and long-term security. I also know that if the Israelis decide to expel the Palestinians that there is no force in the region capable of stopping them. If I were a Palestinian I would be praying fervently for a return-to-health and power of Egypt, Libya, Syria and Iraq, as well as increased preparations and exertions by the Lebanese and Jordanians, because it would take all of those - restored to tip-top military condition - to even hope to stop The Great Expulsion if that is ever undertaken. As to the world not favoring Israel any more than the US in Iraq, well, true, but that didn't stop us, nor did it have any permanent and obstructive long-term political and economic consequences. We're still here. So would Israel be, after an Expulsion.

I remember the USS Stark, USS Cole, BLT/Drakkar Beirut, US Ebassy Beirut twice, Khobar Towers, US embassy Nairobi das es Salaam................


You're right, the Arabs were annoyed with Israel and attacked the US.
Thanks for reminding us yet again of the human animals called Arabs.
You suck at PR.
You're not too good at history:
USS Liberty Memorial
Thanks for the laugh.
I had forgotten the Stark.

"A ceremony is held at Mayport Naval Station on 17 May each year to remember the 37 men who died in the incident. The ceremony in 2012 was the 25th anniversary of the tragedy"

Why do you suppose no such memorial has ever been held for those murdered by Israel on the Liberty?

USS Stark incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
"Why do you suppose no such memorial has ever been held for those murdered by Israel on the Liberty?..."
I dunno, but I'm sure it's all part of the International Joooooish Kornspiracy!
75_75.gif
 
"...Let's hope we both agree it's better for the world if it doesn't come to that. If it does, the world will not favor the Jews anymore than it favored the US in Iraq."
Quite honestly, I don't know what's better for 'the world' in this context. I'm on record as believing that the Israelis will eventually have no choice but to clear-out Gaza and the West Bank as a matter of survival and long-term security. I also know that if the Israelis decide to expel the Palestinians that there is no force in the region capable of stopping them. If I were a Palestinian I would be praying fervently for a return-to-health and power of Egypt, Libya, Syria and Iraq, as well as increased preparations and exertions by the Lebanese and Jordanians, because it would take all of those - restored to tip-top military condition - to even hope to stop The Great Expulsion if that is ever undertaken. As to the world not favoring Israel any more than the US in Iraq, well, true, but that didn't stop us, nor did it have any permanent and obstructive long-term political and economic consequences. We're still here. So would Israel be, after an Expulsion.

I remember the USS Stark, USS Cole, BLT/Drakkar Beirut, US Ebassy Beirut twice, Khobar Towers, US embassy Nairobi das es Salaam................


You're not too good at history:
USS Liberty Memorial
Thanks for the laugh.
I had forgotten the Stark.

"A ceremony is held at Mayport Naval Station on 17 May each year to remember the 37 men who died in the incident. The ceremony in 2012 was the 25th anniversary of the tragedy"

Why do you suppose no such memorial has ever been held for those murdered by Israel on the Liberty?

USS Stark incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Because nobody in the US military wants to invoke a mess up by the US military on an annual basis.
 
Quite honestly, I don't know what's better for 'the world' in this context. I'm on record as believing that the Israelis will eventually have no choice but to clear-out Gaza and the West Bank as a matter of survival and long-term security. I also know that if the Israelis decide to expel the Palestinians that there is no force in the region capable of stopping them. If I were a Palestinian I would be praying fervently for a return-to-health and power of Egypt, Libya, Syria and Iraq, as well as increased preparations and exertions by the Lebanese and Jordanians, because it would take all of those - restored to tip-top military condition - to even hope to stop The Great Expulsion if that is ever undertaken. As to the world not favoring Israel any more than the US in Iraq, well, true, but that didn't stop us, nor did it have any permanent and obstructive long-term political and economic consequences. We're still here. So would Israel be, after an Expulsion.

I remember the USS Stark, USS Cole, BLT/Drakkar Beirut, US Ebassy Beirut twice, Khobar Towers, US embassy Nairobi das es Salaam................
I had forgotten the Stark.

"A ceremony is held at Mayport Naval Station on 17 May each year to remember the 37 men who died in the incident. The ceremony in 2012 was the 25th anniversary of the tragedy"

Why do you suppose no such memorial has ever been held for those murdered by Israel on the Liberty?

USS Stark incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Because nobody in the US military wants to invoke a mess up by the US military on an annual basis.
The Stark's mess up is confirmed by the fact its skipper faced court-martial for his actions under fire while Liberty's Captain received the Medal of Honor. I'm not sure why we celebrate the former and hide the latter?
 
I had forgotten the Stark.

"A ceremony is held at Mayport Naval Station on 17 May each year to remember the 37 men who died in the incident. The ceremony in 2012 was the 25th anniversary of the tragedy"

Why do you suppose no such memorial has ever been held for those murdered by Israel on the Liberty?

USS Stark incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Because nobody in the US military wants to invoke a mess up by the US military on an annual basis.
The Stark's mess up is confirmed by the fact its skipper faced court-martial for his actions under fire while Liberty's Captain received the Medal of Honor. I'm not sure why we celebrate the former and hide the latter?

Probably because the Liberty's Captain was courageously following orders from a fool in the upper echelons.
 
Sadly the transcripts and interviews so fault by crew on the Liberty as well as Israel. It was an embarrassment on the navy. Investigation concluded it an accident. Israel paid for damages.
McGonagal told the crew not to fire but orders were not heard or ignored and the torpedo boats responded. Too many lies and disinformation are still widely circulated about the incident. A tragedy that did not need to happen if the Navy had told Israel they had a ship in the area when asked after the USS Liberty was first spotted.



"...Let's hope we both agree it's better for the world if it doesn't come to that. If it does, the world will not favor the Jews anymore than it favored the US in Iraq."
Quite honestly, I don't know what's better for 'the world' in this context. I'm on record as believing that the Israelis will eventually have no choice but to clear-out Gaza and the West Bank as a matter of survival and long-term security. I also know that if the Israelis decide to expel the Palestinians that there is no force in the region capable of stopping them. If I were a Palestinian I would be praying fervently for a return-to-health and power of Egypt, Libya, Syria and Iraq, as well as increased preparations and exertions by the Lebanese and Jordanians, because it would take all of those - restored to tip-top military condition - to even hope to stop The Great Expulsion if that is ever undertaken. As to the world not favoring Israel any more than the US in Iraq, well, true, but that didn't stop us, nor did it have any permanent and obstructive long-term political and economic consequences. We're still here. So would Israel be, after an Expulsion.

I remember the USS Stark, USS Cole, BLT/Drakkar Beirut, US Ebassy Beirut twice, Khobar Towers, US embassy Nairobi das es Salaam................


You're not too good at history:
USS Liberty Memorial
Thanks for the laugh.
I had forgotten the Stark.

"A ceremony is held at Mayport Naval Station on 17 May each year to remember the 37 men who died in the incident. The ceremony in 2012 was the 25th anniversary of the tragedy"

Why do you suppose no such memorial has ever been held for those murdered by Israel on the Liberty?

USS Stark incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Because nobody in the US military wants to invoke a mess up by the US military on an annual basis.
The Stark's mess up is confirmed by the fact its skipper faced court-martial for his actions under fire while Liberty's Captain received the Medal of Honor. I'm not sure why we celebrate the former and hide the latter?

Probably because the Liberty's Captain was courageously following orders from a fool in the upper echelons.
This is the first time I've seen that particular explanation.
Are you implying Captain McGonagal had advance knowledge of Israel's impending attack?
 
The USS Liberty represents a 'friendly-fire' incident.

The USS Stark represents a 'hostile-fire' incident.

Two different types of incidents, getting two different kinds of treatment - no surprise there.
 
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Sadly the transcripts and interviews so fault by crew on the Liberty as well as Israel. It was an embarrassment on the navy. Investigation concluded it an accident. Israel paid for damages.
McGonagal told the crew not to fire but orders were not heard or ignored and the torpedo boats responded. Too many lies and disinformation are still widely circulated about the incident. A tragedy that did not need to happen if the Navy had told Israel they had a ship in the area when asked after the USS Liberty was first spotted.



Quite honestly, I don't know what's better for 'the world' in this context. I'm on record as believing that the Israelis will eventually have no choice but to clear-out Gaza and the West Bank as a matter of survival and long-term security. I also know that if the Israelis decide to expel the Palestinians that there is no force in the region capable of stopping them. If I were a Palestinian I would be praying fervently for a return-to-health and power of Egypt, Libya, Syria and Iraq, as well as increased preparations and exertions by the Lebanese and Jordanians, because it would take all of those - restored to tip-top military condition - to even hope to stop The Great Expulsion if that is ever undertaken. As to the world not favoring Israel any more than the US in Iraq, well, true, but that didn't stop us, nor did it have any permanent and obstructive long-term political and economic consequences. We're still here. So would Israel be, after an Expulsion.

I remember the USS Stark, USS Cole, BLT/Drakkar Beirut, US Ebassy Beirut twice, Khobar Towers, US embassy Nairobi das es Salaam................
I had forgotten the Stark.

"A ceremony is held at Mayport Naval Station on 17 May each year to remember the 37 men who died in the incident. The ceremony in 2012 was the 25th anniversary of the tragedy"

Why do you suppose no such memorial has ever been held for those murdered by Israel on the Liberty?

USS Stark incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Every surviving member of Liberty's crew knows Israel's attack was deliberate, premeditated, and conducted hours after Israel made positive identification of Liberty as a US ship in international waters.

"On June 8, 1967, US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was suddenly and brutally attacked on the high seas in international waters by the air and naval forces of Israel. The Israeli forces attacked with full knowledge that this was an American ship and lied about it."

USS Liberty Memorial

BTW, why do you post your reply above the comments you're responding to instead of beneath them?
 
The USS Liberty represents a 'friendly-fire' incident.

The USS Start represents a 'hostile-fire' incident.

Two different types of incidents, getting two different kinds of treatment - no surprise there.
Except there was nothing "friendly" about Israel's deliberate, premeditated attempt to sink Liberty with no survivors left to tell the truth.

"Statement by former Air Force intelligence analyst Stephen Forslund:

"For many years I have periodically been reminded of those days in June 1967 that had such an impact on me as a young man. It has been frustrating that, for all that time, I have had to stifle the shout I wanted to make over the injustice that was committed..."

"On the day of the attack on the Liberty, I read yellow teletype sheets that spewed from the machines in front of me all day. We obtained our input from a variety of sources including the NSA.

"The teletypes were raw translations of intercepts of Israeli air-to-air and air-to-ground communications between jet aircraft and their ground controller.

"I read page after page of these transcripts that day as it went on and on.

"The transcripts made specific reference to the efforts to direct the jets to the target which was identified as American numerous times by the ground controller.

"Upon arrival, the aircraft specifically identified the target and mentioned the American flag she was flying. There were frequent operational transmissions from the pilots to the ground base describing the strafing runs.

"The ground control began asking about the status of the target and whether it was sinking.

"They stressed that the target must be sunk and leave no trace.

"The pilots stated they had made several runs and the target was still floating.

"The ground control station re-iterated that it was urgent that the target be sunk, leaving no trace.

"There was a detectable level of frustration evident in the transmissions over the fact that the aircraft were unable to accomplish the mission quickly and totally."

Statement of Stephen Forslund
 
The USS Liberty represents a 'friendly-fire' incident.

The USS Stark, represents a 'hostile-fire' incident.

Two different types of incidents, getting two different kinds of treatment - no surprise there.
Except there was nothing "friendly" about Israel's deliberate, premeditated attempt to sink Liberty with no survivors left to tell the truth....
Most of the American military and People remain unconvinced; either at the time of the incident or at a distance of 46 years.

The several official US Navy and Joint Chiefs of Staff and Congressional inquiries exonerated Israel from any wrongdoing beyond that of Target Identification.

If our own official inquiries let them off the hook, then I am content, as are most Americans.
 
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The USS Liberty represents a 'friendly-fire' incident.

The USS Stark, represents a 'hostile-fire' incident.

Two different types of incidents, getting two different kinds of treatment - no surprise there.
Except there was nothing "friendly" about Israel's deliberate, premeditated attempt to sink Liberty with no survivors left to tell the truth....
Most of the American military and People remain unconvinced; either at the time of the incident or at a distance of 46 years.

The several official US Navy and Joint Chiefs of Staff and Congressional inquiries exonerated Israel from any wrongdoing beyond that of Target Identification.

If our own official inquiries let them off the hook, then I am content, as are most Americans.
Most Americans are unaware the event ever happened, much less some of the specific details of the attack:

"Survivors also report that the torpedo boat crews fired on the inflated life boats launched by the crew after the captain gave the order 'prepare to abandon ship.'[24]

"This order had to be rescinded because the crew was unable to stand on the main deck without being fired upon and the life rafts were destroyed as they were launched."


USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events
 
Except there was nothing "friendly" about Israel's deliberate, premeditated attempt to sink Liberty with no survivors left to tell the truth....
Most of the American military and People remain unconvinced; either at the time of the incident or at a distance of 46 years.

The several official US Navy and Joint Chiefs of Staff and Congressional inquiries exonerated Israel from any wrongdoing beyond that of Target Identification.

If our own official inquiries let them off the hook, then I am content, as are most Americans.
Most Americans are unaware the event ever happened, much less some of the specific details of the attack:

"Survivors also report that the torpedo boat crews fired on the inflated life boats launched by the crew after the captain gave the order 'prepare to abandon ship.'[24]

"This order had to be rescinded because the crew was unable to stand on the main deck without being fired upon and the life rafts were destroyed as they were launched."


USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events

Israelis worship anything American. All the signs and ads there say, "Just like in America", and they like to call themselves "a little America". Most likely, the Liberty incident of a generation ago was a tragic friendly-fire event that happened when Israel was in a desperate situation, fighting 3 enemies at once. Why was an American ship even in that area at the time?
 
Most of the American military and People remain unconvinced; either at the time of the incident or at a distance of 46 years.

The several official US Navy and Joint Chiefs of Staff and Congressional inquiries exonerated Israel from any wrongdoing beyond that of Target Identification.

If our own official inquiries let them off the hook, then I am content, as are most Americans.
Most Americans are unaware the event ever happened, much less some of the specific details of the attack:

"Survivors also report that the torpedo boat crews fired on the inflated life boats launched by the crew after the captain gave the order 'prepare to abandon ship.'[24]

"This order had to be rescinded because the crew was unable to stand on the main deck without being fired upon and the life rafts were destroyed as they were launched."


USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events

Israelis worship anything American. All the signs and ads there say, "Just like in America", and they like to call themselves "a little America". Most likely, the Liberty incident of a generation ago was a tragic friendly-fire event that happened when Israel was in a desperate situation, fighting 3 enemies at once. Why was an American ship even in that area at the time?

It was a three hour sustained attack.. The Liberty was monitoring communications.
 
Most Americans are unaware the event ever happened, much less some of the specific details of the attack:

"Survivors also report that the torpedo boat crews fired on the inflated life boats launched by the crew after the captain gave the order 'prepare to abandon ship.'[24]

"This order had to be rescinded because the crew was unable to stand on the main deck without being fired upon and the life rafts were destroyed as they were launched."


USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events

Israelis worship anything American. All the signs and ads there say, "Just like in America", and they like to call themselves "a little America". Most likely, the Liberty incident of a generation ago was a tragic friendly-fire event that happened when Israel was in a desperate situation, fighting 3 enemies at once. Why was an American ship even in that area at the time?

It was a three hour sustained attack.. The Liberty was monitoring communications.

So what if it was "a three-hour sustained attack" in the fog of war? Israel thought it was an enemy ship in that theater of war, specifically the Med. Sea. And what does it mean "they were monitoring communications"? They put themselves in harm's way, unfortunately.
 
Most Americans are unaware the event ever happened, much less some of the specific details of the attack:

"Survivors also report that the torpedo boat crews fired on the inflated life boats launched by the crew after the captain gave the order 'prepare to abandon ship.'[24]

"This order had to be rescinded because the crew was unable to stand on the main deck without being fired upon and the life rafts were destroyed as they were launched."


USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events

Israelis worship anything American. All the signs and ads there say, "Just like in America", and they like to call themselves "a little America". Most likely, the Liberty incident of a generation ago was a tragic friendly-fire event that happened when Israel was in a desperate situation, fighting 3 enemies at once. Why was an American ship even in that area at the time?

It was a three hour sustained attack.. The Liberty was monitoring communications.
Prior to the actual attack which took place around 2:00 PM, Israel monitored Liberty for hours:

"At approximately 0600 hours (all times local) on the morning of June 8, 1967 an Israeli maritime reconnaissance aircraft observer reported seeing 'a US Navy cargo type ship,' just outside the coverage of the Israeli coastal radar defense net, bearing the hull markings 'GTR-5'.[11]

"This report, made to Israeli naval HQ, was also forwarded immediately to the Israeli navy intelligence directorate.[12]

"Throughout the remainder of the day prior to the attack, Israeli reconnaissance aircraft regularly flew out to USS Liberty's position and orbited the ship before returning to their bases in Israel.

"A total of no fewer than eight (8) such flights were made.[13]

"At approximately 1050 hours, the naval observer from the early morning reconnaissance flight arrived at Israeli air force HQ and sat down with the air-naval liaison officer there.

"The two officers consulted Jane's Fighting Ships and learned that the ship reported earlier in the day was USS Liberty, a United States Navy technical research ship.[14]

"From 0900 hours on June 8, 1967, until the time of the attack five hours later, USS Liberty maintained a speed of approximately five knots and a generally westerly-northwesterly course.[15]

"At 1400 hours, while approximately 17 miles off the Gaza coast, USS Liberty's crew observed three surface radar contacts closing with their position at high speed.

"A few moments later, the bridge radar crew observed high speed aircraft passing over the surface returns on the same heading.[16]

"Within a few short moments, and without any warning, Israeli fighter aircraft launched a rocket attack on USS Liberty..."

USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events

Apparently, the idea was to sink Liberty with no survivors and blame Egypt. I turned 20 in '67, and I can guarantee the plan would have worked like a charm. Many US fighters who weren't at all happy to be in Vietnam at that time would have torn Egypt to shreds; and their grandchildren would probably be stationed there to this very day.

My biggest question today is this: on which side of the Atlantic was the scheme hatched?
 
15th post
Except there was nothing "friendly" about Israel's deliberate, premeditated attempt to sink Liberty with no survivors left to tell the truth....
Most of the American military and People remain unconvinced; either at the time of the incident or at a distance of 46 years.

The several official US Navy and Joint Chiefs of Staff and Congressional inquiries exonerated Israel from any wrongdoing beyond that of Target Identification.

If our own official inquiries let them off the hook, then I am content, as are most Americans.
Most Americans are unaware the event ever happened, much less some of the specific details of the attack:

"Survivors also report that the torpedo boat crews fired on the inflated life boats launched by the crew after the captain gave the order 'prepare to abandon ship.'[24]

"This order had to be rescinded because the crew was unable to stand on the main deck without being fired upon and the life rafts were destroyed as they were launched."

USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events
Correction...

Most Americans who are aware of the incident and understand something about the details of the event remain unconvinced...
 
Israelis worship anything American. All the signs and ads there say, "Just like in America", and they like to call themselves "a little America". Most likely, the Liberty incident of a generation ago was a tragic friendly-fire event that happened when Israel was in a desperate situation, fighting 3 enemies at once. Why was an American ship even in that area at the time?
It was a three hour sustained attack.. The Liberty was monitoring communications.
Prior to the actual attack which took place around 2:00 PM, Israel monitored Liberty for hours:
"At approximately 0600 hours (all times local) on the morning of June 8, 1967 an Israeli maritime reconnaissance aircraft observer reported seeing 'a US Navy cargo type ship,' just outside the coverage of the Israeli coastal radar defense net, bearing the hull markings 'GTR-5'.[11]
"This report, made to Israeli naval HQ, was also forwarded immediately to the Israeli navy intelligence directorate.[12]
"Throughout the remainder of the day prior to the attack, Israeli reconnaissance aircraft regularly flew out to USS Liberty's position and orbited the ship before returning to their bases in Israel.
"A total of no fewer than eight (8) such flights were made.[13]
"At approximately 1050 hours, the naval observer from the early morning reconnaissance flight arrived at Israeli air force HQ and sat down with the air-naval liaison officer there.
"The two officers consulted Jane's Fighting Ships and learned that the ship reported earlier in the day was USS Liberty, a United States Navy technical research ship.[14]
My biggest question today is this: on which side of the Atlantic was the scheme hatched?
Elders of zion operating a mind-bending radar out the area 51, of course.
 
It was a three hour sustained attack.. The Liberty was monitoring communications.
Prior to the actual attack which took place around 2:00 PM, Israel monitored Liberty for hours:
"At approximately 0600 hours (all times local) on the morning of June 8, 1967 an Israeli maritime reconnaissance aircraft observer reported seeing 'a US Navy cargo type ship,' just outside the coverage of the Israeli coastal radar defense net, bearing the hull markings 'GTR-5'.[11]
"This report, made to Israeli naval HQ, was also forwarded immediately to the Israeli navy intelligence directorate.[12]
"Throughout the remainder of the day prior to the attack, Israeli reconnaissance aircraft regularly flew out to USS Liberty's position and orbited the ship before returning to their bases in Israel.
"A total of no fewer than eight (8) such flights were made.[13]
"At approximately 1050 hours, the naval observer from the early morning reconnaissance flight arrived at Israeli air force HQ and sat down with the air-naval liaison officer there.
"The two officers consulted Jane's Fighting Ships and learned that the ship reported earlier in the day was USS Liberty, a United States Navy technical research ship.[14]
My biggest question today is this: on which side of the Atlantic was the scheme hatched?
Elders of zion operating a mind-bending radar out the area 51, of course.

Thanks for stealing my thunder!
 
Most of the American military and People remain unconvinced; either at the time of the incident or at a distance of 46 years.

The several official US Navy and Joint Chiefs of Staff and Congressional inquiries exonerated Israel from any wrongdoing beyond that of Target Identification.

If our own official inquiries let them off the hook, then I am content, as are most Americans.
Most Americans are unaware the event ever happened, much less some of the specific details of the attack:

"Survivors also report that the torpedo boat crews fired on the inflated life boats launched by the crew after the captain gave the order 'prepare to abandon ship.'[24]

"This order had to be rescinded because the crew was unable to stand on the main deck without being fired upon and the life rafts were destroyed as they were launched."

USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events
Correction...

Most Americans who are aware of the incident and understand something about the details of the event remain unconvinced...
Except for every single surviving eyewitness.
 
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