Israel must be careful.

[Mark Richard]

The problem with artillery, missiles and air strikes is that it kills many more civilians than hamas terrorists

And that turns world opinion against Israel

War is always bad, but it's not like they can just sit on their hands nor keep it in the ring.

 

[Mac-7]

War is always bad, but it's not like they can just sit on their hands nor keep it in the ring.

Throughout Israels entire history they have always walked s tightrope

And no less so now

More violence kills hamas fighter who so much deserve to die

But too much violence hurts Israel diplomatically

 

[Mark Richard]

Throughout Israels entire history they have always walked s tightrope

And no less so now

More violence kills hamas fighter who so much deserve to die

But too much violence hurts Israel diplomatically

Of course.

 

[Kruska]

Did Hamas drop leaflets warning Israeli citizens before they attacked?

Because Israel did.

Unlike the PLO/Fatah, in 1993 (who since then have been systematically robbed of their Palestinian lands in the Westbank), the Hamas never signed nor agreed towards recognizing Israels right to exist - so they need to drop 'leaflets" for what? Hamas already made it clear, latest since 2006 - that they will continue to use terror as means to "liberating" Palestine.

Israel's policy is also absolutely clear since 1948; keep attacking and occupying all Palestinian Lands.

So you got two absolute Nut cases in regards to their politicians and hardliner factions, being Israeli Jews & Arab Muslims incl. Iran. (they ain't Arabs).

It is absolutely meaningless to discuss about which of those two is more violent or inhumane. They BOTH are.

The factual difference is only in the "visible" tactics they apply - one highly modernized and holding the Middle-Easts most sophisticated Armed Forces - pounding the shit out of Palestinians and it's Arab neighbor nations, causing death and destruction with "indirect" means amongst militias & civilians.
The other relies onto shitty equipped militias - therefore simply trying to cause death and destruction with "direct" means amongst the IDF and civilians.

During the last Gaza "battle" approximately 400 Hamas militias and 1000 civilians were killed - Israel lost 14 IDF soldiers.
Presently as of today - Israel has lost around 1100 civilians and 200 IDF soldiers.

Taking all dead civilians of the Western world into account - victims due to Muslim terror attacks - I am willing to place a bet, that more European&American civilians have perished, then Jews in Israel. Not even to mention tens of thousands of Arab civilians that got killed due to Muslim radicals and the IDF.

And who caused all this SHIT in the first place? The idiocy and mental perversity to create a Jewish State in the midst of a location settled and inhabited by Muslims since 1400 years. And certain Jews citing some self-written Bible as justification, yapping about an issue that occurred some 3200 years ago. Whilst neglecting and denying the fact, that they "the chosen one's" had conquered these lands also from others.

As of today more then 75% of Israels population blame their present government for this insanity - since they are honest&smart enough to realize that the Hamas threat was known and obvious. Only dumb outsiders, Zionist hardliners and idiotic Jews living outside Israel - yap about the "inhumane" behavior of e.g. Hamas.

A very good friend of mine just returned from Israel 2 days ago. He and about a dozen of Israeli friends of mine (mostly IDF) are completely OUTRAGED about the Nethanyahu government. They are naturally and rightfully outraged about the murders and atrocities committed by Hamas, especially towards civilians - DOES THAT SOLVE THE PROBLEM? NO it doesn't - and they know it.

Does razing Gaza to the ground, and Israel (IDF) getting into a war with their neighbor countries solve the problem? NO IT DOESN'T - it only makes it WORSE.

 

[MarcATL]

Isreal hasn't been in Gaza for over 9 years.

So who's controlling it's electricity?

 

[martybegan]

They only have so many reserves.

More than enough to wall off the North while smushing Gaza, as long as the other countries don't jump in, and I don't see them doing that.

 

[surada]

So are you saying they should just suck it up and take it every time these people want to do this?

What we know so far about the deadly strike on a Gaza hospital

Palestinian officials say nearly 500 people were killed in an Israeli air raid on al-Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza.

www.aljazeera.com

Located in central Gaza, the hospital, which is run by the Episcopal Diocese of Jerusalem, was struck while it was overwhelmed with thousands of Palestinians seeking shelter amid a campaign of brutal Israeli air attacks across much of the besieged Gaza Strip

 

[surada]

Isreal hasn't been in Gaza for over 9 years.

They pulled out in 2005. Now they have found oil and gas fields in Gazan waters.

 

[Independent thinker]

What we know so far about the deadly strike on a Gaza hospital

Palestinian officials say nearly 500 people were killed in an Israeli air raid on al-Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza.

www.aljazeera.com

Located in central Gaza, the hospital, which is run by the Episcopal Diocese of Jerusalem, was struck while it was overwhelmed with thousands of Palestinians seeking shelter amid a campaign of brutal Israeli air attacks across much of the besieged Gaza Strip

There seems to be intelligence which suggests it was a Palestinian wayward rocket which hit the hospital.

 

[Godboy]

The horrific attack by HAMAS was intended to get the very response that Israel is about to launch.

That isnt true. No one, not even Iran or Hamas, thought the mission would be that big of a success. Iran expected an attack where a few dozen Israelis were killed and maybe a couple hostages taken. Never in their wildest dreams did they think they would kill over a thousand and take 200+ hostages. Iran would not have backed this attack if they thought that would happen. Now Israel is going to permanently take Hamas away from Iran's arsenal as a result. Iran is not happy about this at all.

 

[bendog]

Throughout Israels entire history they have always walked s tightrope

And no less so now

More violence kills hamas fighter who so much deserve to die

But too much violence hurts Israel diplomatically

The only acceptable violence is violence in self defense (or others). That's pretty much true in both intl law and US criminal law.

Only Israel faces intl funded terrorist organizations that threaten to destroy it. People say, including me, that Israel's extremist religious bigots's "stealing" land has been .... "Intentionally inflaming Pale passions." And they really are not any better than Hamas or Hezbollah because they don't WANT peace. Bibi's career depended upon having an enemy like Hamas and Hezbollah. He promised security after Ehud Barak's peace offering was rejected by Arafat and the Palestinian "govt" such as that is.

Both Hamas and Hezbollah's "legitimacy" is based on the destruction of Israel. It's not about Pale rights or a homeland, it's about killing Israel. All three - Bibi, Hamas and Hezbollah - depend on the other for their little dance of power and death.

BUT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. Bibi and his gang of religious ethnic cleansers would be long gone from power if ALL the arab states rejected Hamas and Hezbollah as having legitimacy in their calls for destroying Israel. And guys like MBS really don't like being told that truth.

And Bibi knows America, and he knows even voters like me who don't care at all for Bibi and his "gang," and really think the world made a mistake in creating Israel, are not ever going to forget an attack like Hamas launched. American palestinians can complain about America's unequal treatments of Israel and Palestinians. But the odd thing is they'll never accept that only One Side offered a peace, and is capable of doing it again.

 

[Woodznutz]

There seems to be intelligence which suggests it was a Palestinian wayward rocket which hit the hospital.

Or munitions stored in the hospital exploded.

 

[surada]

The only acceptable violence is violence in self defense (or others). That's pretty much true in both intl law and US criminal law.

Only Israel faces intl funded terrorist organizations that threaten to destroy it. People say, including me, that Israel's extremist religious bigots's "stealing" land has been .... "Intentionally inflaming Pale passions." And they really are not any better than Hamas or Hezbollah because they don't WANT peace. Bibi's career depended upon having an enemy like Hamas and Hezbollah. He promised security after Ehud Barak's peace offering was rejected by Arafat and the Palestinian "govt" such as that is.

Both Hamas and Hezbollah's "legitimacy" is based on the destruction of Israel. It's not about Pale rights or a homeland, it's about killing Israel. All three - Bibi, Hamas and Hezbollah - depend on the other for their little dance of power and death.

BUT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. Bibi and his gang of religious ethnic cleansers would be long gone from power if ALL the arab states rejected Hamas and Hezbollah as having legitimacy in their calls for destroying Israel. And guys like MBS really don't like being told that truth.

And Bibi knows America, and he knows even voters like me who don't care at all for Bibi and his "gang," and really think the world made a mistake in creating Israel, are not ever going to forget an attack like Hamas launched. American palestinians can complain about America's unequal treatments of Israel and Palestinians. But the odd thing is they'll never accept that only One Side offered a peace, and is capable of doing it again.

Neither Hamas nor hezbollah existed before the mid 1980s. Israel funded Hamas and hezbollah was founded to keep Israel out of Lebanon.

 

[bendog]

Neither Hamas nor hezbollah existed before the mid 1980s. Israel funded Hamas and hezbollah was founded to keep Israel out of Lebanon.

I'm not sure how much money Bibi gave to hamas, but there's no factual dispute that Bibi propped up hamas as an alternative to the Palestinian Authority, because hamas gave his rejection of any Pale state a sort of legitimacy (those guys are the worst terrorists, not me). And, imo, the terror attacks during the end of Sukkot are his legacy.

Still, there's a distinction between Israel and the Pales. Has any Arab state, ever, called on the Pales to accept the reality that not only is Israel not going anywhere (besides deeper into arab land) but the Palestinians living outside Israel are never going back inside? I don't think so. I actually think it'd be suicidal, but one of the Israeli religious terrorists killed his own prime minister over the same thing, and the crazy Israelis actually let the sob get married.

"The assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin was the culmination of an anti-violence rally in support of the Oslo peace process.[1] Rabin was disparaged personally by right-wing conservatives and Likud leaders who perceived the peace process as an attempt to forfeit the occupied territories and a capitulation to Israel's enemies.[2][3][page needed]

National religious conservatives and Likud party leaders believed that withdrawing from any "Jewish" land was heresy.[4] The Likud leader and future prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, accused Rabin's government of being "removed from Jewish tradition [...] and Jewish values".[2][3] Right-wing rabbis associated with the settlers' movement prohibited territorial concessions to the Palestinians and forbade soldiers in the Israel Defense Forces from evacuating Jewish settlers under the accords.[5][6] Some rabbis proclaimed din rodef, based on a traditional Jewish law of self-defense, against Rabin personally, arguing that the Oslo Accords would endanger Jewish lives.[5][7][page needed]

Rallies organized by Likud and other right-wing groups featured depictions of Rabin in a Nazi SS uniform, or in the crosshairs of a gun.[2][3] Protesters compared the Labor party to the Nazis and Rabin to Adolf Hitler[5] and chanted, "Rabin is a murderer" and "Rabin is a traitor".[8][9] In July 1995, Netanyahu led a mock funeral procession featuring a coffin and hangman's noose at an anti-Rabin rally where protesters chanted, "Death to Rabin".[10][11]

Assassination of Yitzhak Rabin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Personally, for me, that was enough of Israel. Still, even after that, Israel did offer a two state solution for peace. And they got nowhere. But I don't think any Arab leader would live long if he told the hard truth that the Pales have to make the best peace they can ... or the IDF will put them in "reservations." Although, no American president would politically survive cutting off military aid to Israel in an effort to force them to give up their religious expansions.

 

[surada]

I'm not sure how much money Bibi gave to hamas, but there's no factual dispute that Bibi propped up hamas as an alternative to the Palestinian Authority, because hamas gave his rejection of any Pale state a sort of legitimacy (those guys are the worst terrorists, not me). And, imo, the terror attacks during the end of Sukkot are his legacy.

Still, there's a distinction between Israel and the Pales. Has any Arab state, ever, called on the Pales to accept the reality that not only is Israel not going anywhere (besides deeper into arab land) but the Palestinians living outside Israel are never going back inside? I don't think so. I actually think it'd be suicidal, but one of the Israeli religious terrorists killed his own prime minister over the same thing, and the crazy Israelis actually let the sob get married.

"The assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin was the culmination of an anti-violence rally in support of the Oslo peace process.[1] Rabin was disparaged personally by right-wing conservatives and Likud leaders who perceived the peace process as an attempt to forfeit the occupied territories and a capitulation to Israel's enemies.[2][3][page needed]

National religious conservatives and Likud party leaders believed that withdrawing from any "Jewish" land was heresy.[4] The Likud leader and future prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, accused Rabin's government of being "removed from Jewish tradition [...] and Jewish values".[2][3] Right-wing rabbis associated with the settlers' movement prohibited territorial concessions to the Palestinians and forbade soldiers in the Israel Defense Forces from evacuating Jewish settlers under the accords.[5][6] Some rabbis proclaimed din rodef, based on a traditional Jewish law of self-defense, against Rabin personally, arguing that the Oslo Accords would endanger Jewish lives.[5][7][page needed]

Rallies organized by Likud and other right-wing groups featured depictions of Rabin in a Nazi SS uniform, or in the crosshairs of a gun.[2][3] Protesters compared the Labor party to the Nazis and Rabin to Adolf Hitler[5] and chanted, "Rabin is a murderer" and "Rabin is a traitor".[8][9] In July 1995, Netanyahu led a mock funeral procession featuring a coffin and hangman's noose at an anti-Rabin rally where protesters chanted, "Death to Rabin".[10][11]

Assassination of Yitzhak Rabin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Personally, for me, that was enough of Israel. Still, even after that, Israel did offer a two state solution for peace. And they got nowhere. But I don't think any Arab leader would live long if he told the hard truth that the Pales have to make the best peace they can ... or the IDF will put them in "reservations." Although, no American president would politically survive cutting off military aid to Israel in an effort to force them to give up their religious expansions.

Tiny disconnected bantustans are not a 2 state solution.

 

[surada]

Isreal hasn't been in Gaza for over 9 years.

The Israelis left Gaza in 2005.

 

[surada]

I'm not sure how much money Bibi gave to hamas, but there's no factual dispute that Bibi propped up hamas as an alternative to the Palestinian Authority, because hamas gave his rejection of any Pale state a sort of legitimacy (those guys are the worst terrorists, not me). And, imo, the terror attacks during the end of Sukkot are his legacy.

Still, there's a distinction between Israel and the Pales. Has any Arab state, ever, called on the Pales to accept the reality that not only is Israel not going anywhere (besides deeper into arab land) but the Palestinians living outside Israel are never going back inside? I don't think so. I actually think it'd be suicidal, but one of the Israeli religious terrorists killed his own prime minister over the same thing, and the crazy Israelis actually let the sob get married.

"The assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin was the culmination of an anti-violence rally in support of the Oslo peace process.[1] Rabin was disparaged personally by right-wing conservatives and Likud leaders who perceived the peace process as an attempt to forfeit the occupied territories and a capitulation to Israel's enemies.[2][3][page needed]

National religious conservatives and Likud party leaders believed that withdrawing from any "Jewish" land was heresy.[4] The Likud leader and future prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, accused Rabin's government of being "removed from Jewish tradition [...] and Jewish values".[2][3] Right-wing rabbis associated with the settlers' movement prohibited territorial concessions to the Palestinians and forbade soldiers in the Israel Defense Forces from evacuating Jewish settlers under the accords.[5][6] Some rabbis proclaimed din rodef, based on a traditional Jewish law of self-defense, against Rabin personally, arguing that the Oslo Accords would endanger Jewish lives.[5][7][page needed]

Rallies organized by Likud and other right-wing groups featured depictions of Rabin in a Nazi SS uniform, or in the crosshairs of a gun.[2][3] Protesters compared the Labor party to the Nazis and Rabin to Adolf Hitler[5] and chanted, "Rabin is a murderer" and "Rabin is a traitor".[8][9] In July 1995, Netanyahu led a mock funeral procession featuring a coffin and hangman's noose at an anti-Rabin rally where protesters chanted, "Death to Rabin".[10][11]

Assassination of Yitzhak Rabin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Personally, for me, that was enough of Israel. Still, even after that, Israel did offer a two state solution for peace. And they got nowhere. But I don't think any Arab leader would live long if he told the hard truth that the Pales have to make the best peace they can ... or the IDF will put them in "reservations." Although, no American president would politically survive cutting off military aid to Israel in an effort to force them to give up their religious expansions.

Sad. The Israelis have never been satisfied with the land given them by the league of nations. Read Moishe Dayan.
Remember when Israelis hijacked the Syrian plane in 1954?

 

[bendog]

the Israelis face a "difficult map" given the West Bank. But in 1998, they accepted a map that had only Israeli "outposts" in the West Bank.

But if you asked me what is the difference between those who agreed with assassinating Rabin and Hamas ..... I couldn't give you much

 

[Mac-7]

The only acceptable violence is violence in self defense (or others). That's pretty much true in both intl law and US criminal law.

Only Israel faces intl funded terrorist organizations that threaten to destroy it. People say, including me, that Israel's extremist religious bigots's "stealing" land has been .... "Intentionally inflaming Pale passions." And they really are not any better than Hamas or Hezbollah because they don't WANT peace. Bibi's career depended upon having an enemy like Hamas and Hezbollah. He promised security after Ehud Barak's peace offering was rejected by Arafat and the Palestinian "govt" such as that is.

Both Hamas and Hezbollah's "legitimacy" is based on the destruction of Israel. It's not about Pale rights or a homeland, it's about killing Israel. All three - Bibi, Hamas and Hezbollah - depend on the other for their little dance of power and death.

BUT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. Bibi and his gang of religious ethnic cleansers would be long gone from power if ALL the arab states rejected Hamas and Hezbollah as having legitimacy in their calls for destroying Israel. And guys like MBS really don't like being told that truth.

And Bibi knows America, and he knows even voters like me who don't care at all for Bibi and his "gang," and really think the world made a mistake in creating Israel, are not ever going to forget an attack like Hamas launched. American palestinians can complain about America's unequal treatments of Israel and Palestinians. But the odd thing is they'll never accept that only One Side offered a peace, and is capable of doing it again.

Whats so bad about “Bibi” except that he’s not s lib?

 

[Darkwind]

The Israelis left Gaza in 2005.

So... Over 9 years.