I think it's fair to say that anyone supporting Hamas either is totally ignorant of their aims, in which case they have no business posting, or supports their aims, which are the extermination of the Jewish people. In which case they really have no right to express an opinion.
Israel Gaza and civilian deaths
- Thread starter blackhawk
- Start date
Manchester
Gold Member
I think it's fair to say that some people refuse to understand that there might be a poisition that you can take where you don't support the holocaust but also don't support a bully of a country firing state of the art ordinance at one of the most densely populated areas of the planet, an area that they themselves have built a wall around and control entirely, the sort of military equivolent of fish in a barrel and salughtering thousands of innocents.
The black or white argument is the one that is used in order to justify not only to everybody else but also to themselves this huge scale and senseless loss, a sort of self delusion to maintain sanity that sadly for some many collapses in to deep depression when they realize they have become what they hate the most.
RoccoR
Gold Member
montelatici, et al,
The attempt to make a comparison is what is called in philosophy a "false analogy." The use of the "false analogy" is an attempt to gain support for an otherwise bad argument through sympathy.
The Warsaw Ghetto was a make-shift death camp. Clearly, the Gaza Strip is not a Death Camp. The border controls in place are to contain, quarantine, and protect against a general population that supports Jihad as the only solution to the territorial dispute between Palestinians and the Israelis.
The Gaza Strip represents a people which had adopted as a way of life, organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities intended to be committed against Israel and their citizens. It is a people who openly provide safe haven to terrorism and Jihad. It is a population that supports, facilitates for training camps, in preparation or perpetration of terrorist acts.
Most Respectfully,
R
The attempt to make a comparison is what is called in philosophy a "false analogy." The use of the "false analogy" is an attempt to gain support for an otherwise bad argument through sympathy.
(COMMENT)
The Warsaw Ghetto was a make-shift death camp. Clearly, the Gaza Strip is not a Death Camp. The border controls in place are to contain, quarantine, and protect against a general population that supports Jihad as the only solution to the territorial dispute between Palestinians and the Israelis.
The Gaza Strip represents a people which had adopted as a way of life, organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities intended to be committed against Israel and their citizens. It is a people who openly provide safe haven to terrorism and Jihad. It is a population that supports, facilitates for training camps, in preparation or perpetration of terrorist acts.
Most Respectfully,
R
Please tell us what solution you have then. This ought to be good.
Manchester
Gold Member
Just obsessed aren't you!
I'd cut off the external funding to Israel and let it wither a die as bully of a nation it is today. As the arms start to dry up they'll see their impending doom and have to do something about it. the war criminals of now would be tried and convincted, a healing process might be long and difficult but the end product would be an integrated Middle East.
Billo_Really
Litre of the Band
Targeting civilian infrastructure is a war crime.
Just because someone is a member of Hamas, does not mean you can kill them anytime you feel like it.
You can't target indiscriminant weapons.
And again, those weapons are fired in RESPONSE to an Israeli air strike or extra-judicial killing.
End the occupation and blockade and Israel won't get rockets.
Billo_Really
Litre of the Band
I don't know what you're bragging about, your one-sided report confirms what I've been saying all along.
The rockets didn't start until 2001, a full 37 years after the occupation began, which is the root cause of all the violence.
And the rockets have killed less than 30 people in 13 years. That's not a threat!
Billo_Really
Litre of the Band
Silence the critics, just like they did in Nazi Germany.
Andylusion
Platinum Member
Again, if the Native Americans in the US, were doing to US citizens, what these 'palestinians' have been doing to the Israelis, we would have responded far worse, and more deadly than anything that Israel has done.
They have gone out of their way to avoid killing non-combatants. They have watched on camera, as these dogs have shot at them from Hospitals, Ambulances, and Schools, and deliberately not fired back at them.
Do you have any idea what our US Marines would have done? There would be smoking holes in the ground where these dogs were.
You keep implying that Israel has just carpet bombed the whole area, and yet they have done the exact opposite, and been so reserved, to a degree we here in the US, and more so Russia, would NEVER have tolerated.
Russia, literally dumbed thousands of gallons of fuel on mountains in Afghanistan, and set the entire mountain on fire, to burn out the fighters, and the civilians together. Israel hasn't even come close to what Russia, or the US, would have done to Gaza by now.
Silence what critics? have you ever heard ONE man critics Hamas once and accepted it?
Billo_Really
Litre of the Band
Didn't you read what The Rabbi said?
I put it in bold, so it would be easier to notice.
That statement makes no sense.
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Have you heard one criticize Hamas for once and you accepted it?
Billo_Really
Litre of the Band
What has Israel been doing to the Palestinian's the past 47 years?
That's bullshit! 80% of the casualties are civilian. That's not "going out of your way".
There have been no shots fired from hospitals. Only one school has there been weapons found. All other claims of this is just nonsense. There has been no evidence to justify that claim, other than the one UN school that was vacant at the time.
Billo_Really
Litre of the Band
Have I heard one criticize Hamas for once and I accepted it?
I don't understand what the question is.
Ill rephrase.
Have you ever heard someone saying something against Hamas actions and you agreed?
RoccoR
Gold Member
Billo_Really, et al,
Yes!
Then they should not be using them. That is a depraved indifference to the civilian community under their threat.
First, any day is a good day to neutralize a terrorist (Jihadist or Fedayeen).
Israel, likes a number of other countries, is resolved to undertake the following measures aimed at addressing the conditions conducive to the spread of terrorism, including but not limited to manifestations, lack of the rule of law and violations of human rights, ethnic, national and religious discrimination, political exclusion, socio-economic marginalization and lack of good governance, while recognizing that none of these conditions can excuse or justify acts of terrorism. With the absence of a government in Gaza that can ensure the apprehension and prosecution or extradition of perpetrators of terrorist acts (members of the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade’, ‘Al-Aqsa e.V.’., ‘Hamas’, including ‘Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem’, Palestinian Islamic Jihad’, etc) in accordance with the relevant provisions of national and international law, alternative means are adopted.
There is no reasonable expectation that HAMAS or the terrorist supporting general population of Gaza will not use there freedom to further continue and advance the HAMAS agenda. That is an unacceptable risk.
Given the past practices in criminal and terrorist behaviors on the part of the Arab Palestinian, they must first demonstrate they can accept and adopt acceptable behaviors before they are entrusted to run free. You saw what they did in 2005. What assurances do we have that they won't replicate those behaviors again?
Most Respectfully,
R
Yes!
(COMMENT)
Then they should not be using them. That is a depraved indifference to the civilian community under their threat.
(COMMENT)
First, any day is a good day to neutralize a terrorist (Jihadist or Fedayeen).
Israel, likes a number of other countries, is resolved to undertake the following measures aimed at addressing the conditions conducive to the spread of terrorism, including but not limited to manifestations, lack of the rule of law and violations of human rights, ethnic, national and religious discrimination, political exclusion, socio-economic marginalization and lack of good governance, while recognizing that none of these conditions can excuse or justify acts of terrorism. With the absence of a government in Gaza that can ensure the apprehension and prosecution or extradition of perpetrators of terrorist acts (members of the ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade’, ‘Al-Aqsa e.V.’., ‘Hamas’, including ‘Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem’, Palestinian Islamic Jihad’, etc) in accordance with the relevant provisions of national and international law, alternative means are adopted.
(COMMENT)
There is no reasonable expectation that HAMAS or the terrorist supporting general population of Gaza will not use there freedom to further continue and advance the HAMAS agenda. That is an unacceptable risk.
Given the past practices in criminal and terrorist behaviors on the part of the Arab Palestinian, they must first demonstrate they can accept and adopt acceptable behaviors before they are entrusted to run free. You saw what they did in 2005. What assurances do we have that they won't replicate those behaviors again?
Most Respectfully,
R
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Billo_Really
Litre of the Band
They were trying to settle their differences peacefully with the unity government, that's why Israel took them out. Israel doesn't want Hamas to be a political movement, they want them to be a terror cell.
Even when the Pals try to do thing peacefully, they get bombs and missile strikes from Israel.
Hamas is not the problem, the occupation and blockade is the problem.
Those have to end, for the problem to be solved.
Awwww, those poor peaceful innocent Hamas political noobs.
Theotherguy
Rookie
The Geneva Conventions would argue that point, as Hamas terrorists are unlawful combatants who may, according to the conventions be summarily executed...
You can't target indiscriminant weapons.
And again, those weapons are fired in RESPONSE to an Israeli air strike or extra-judicial killing.
End the occupation and blockade and Israel won't get rockets.[/QUOTE]
Blatant, idiotic lie.
Manchester
Gold Member
We're all just human. Hamas's stance against Israel wrong but when a country has killed your civilians, blocked your ports, stopped your fishermen, destroyed your agriculture and stolen you lands for so long you can understand why people would hold such views even if you don't in any way agree with them.
What the end product of this latest "grass cutting" will be is the rest of the world will finally broker a peace between both sides and in a few years time when a couple of poor people who have been broken by the unimaginable horror they have witnessed and have filled their lives with hatred because of it then commit some terrorist attacks in Israel then the Israel will throw up it's arms in horror, again claiming to be the victim instead of the farmer who is reaping what he has sown.
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