Israel cannot be allowed to define the New Administration

[dilloduck]

I will point out to any and all the strong relationship between fundamentalist Christians and support of Israel. The movement is growing stronger and stronger. Politicians looking for an edge will always take advantgage of believers by saying what they want to hear. Christians see Israel as fullfillment of thousands of prophecies in the old and new Testaments. They will not waver in their support of Israel.

What exactly is Israel doing that they support ? Guarding the fort ?

 

[Shogun]

What exactly is Israel doing that they support ? Guarding the fort ?

uh, fulfilling biblical prophesy that indicates the end of days?

 

[Neubarth]

uh, fulfilling biblical prophesy that indicates the end of days?

Right you are! The fundamentalists put a lot of value on the fulfillment of prophecy. The entire Bible to them is a book of prophecy, starting in Genesis and ending in the Revelation of John.

If you put the pieces together, it is like reading a high priced mystery novel. You know the outcome in advance, like the massive bloody destruction of an army of 200 million on the West Bank plains of Meggiddo (The Battle of Armegeddon -- Har Meggiddo) by none other than Jesus Christ, Himself. (Check it out in Revelation 19 and 20)

So much for Jesus Christ being a gentle, peaceful, loving and kind man. According to the Bible, he is coming back as the Jewish Messiah, the "All Conquering Lion of Judah!" The Jews have been waiting thousands of years for this Messiah.

The Prophecies related to the recreation of Israel are the most interesting, as that recreation starts a End of Times clock ticking. "The Generation that sees the reestablishment of the nation of Israel shall not pass until the fulfillment of the Return of the Messiah is seen on the Earth."

 

[dilloduck]

Right you are! The fundamentalists put a lot of value on the fulfillment of prophecy. The entire Bible to them is a book of prophecy, starting in Genesis and ending in the Revelation of John.

If you put the pieces together, it is like reading a high priced mystery novel. You know the outcome in advance, like the massive bloody destruction of an army of 200 million on the West Bank plains of Meggiddo (The Battle of Armegeddon -- Har Meggiddo) by none other than Jesus Christ, Himself. (Check it out in Revelation 19 and 20)

So much for Jesus Christ being a gentle, peaceful, loving and kind man. According to the Bible, he is coming back as the Jewish Messiah, the "All Conquering Lion of Judah!" The Jews have been waiting thousands of years for this Messiah.

The Prophecies related to the recreation of Israel are the most interesting, as that recreation starts a End of Times clock ticking. "The Generation that sees the reestablishment of the nation of Israel shall not pass until the fulfillment of the Return of the Messiah is seen on the Earth."

Like I said---they're guarding the fort----squatting on land and waiting for the big day. How come America is so invested in some religious concept ?

 

[Shogun]

uh, because zionists have no problem whatsoever is stroking Americans like John Hagee's dogma junkie wet dream as long as it allows them to do to palis what, ironically, germans did to them?

 

[Sunni Man]

Right you are! The fundamentalists put a lot of value on the fulfillment of prophecy. The entire Bible to them is a book of prophecy, starting in Genesis and ending in the Revelation of John.

If you put the pieces together, it is like reading a high priced mystery novel. You know the outcome in advance, like the massive bloody destruction of an army of 200 million on the West Bank plains of Meggiddo (The Battle of Armegeddon -- Har Meggiddo) by none other than Jesus Christ, Himself. (Check it out in Revelation 19 and 20)

So much for Jesus Christ being a gentle, peaceful, loving and kind man. According to the Bible, he is coming back as the Jewish Messiah, the "All Conquering Lion of Judah!" The Jews have been waiting thousands of years for this Messiah.

The Prophecies related to the recreation of Israel are the most interesting, as that recreation starts a End of Times clock ticking. "The Generation that sees the reestablishment of the nation of Israel shall not pass until the fulfillment of the Return of the Messiah is seen on the Earth."

In Islam, we also believe in the return of Jesus and the Battle of Armegeddon.

The best part is the invasion of the army of Gog and Magog and the destruction of Israel!!

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Hysterical....

First Obama's a muslim, now he's in Israel's pocket.

It never ends.

You're too smart for that my brother.

Don't fall for the okey-doke .. there are serious questions in his comment. and I for one would appreciate hearing what you believe.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Oh Brother, Israel has their opinions, fears, and problems just like everyone else. Just because someone is jewish doesn't mean that they have an "in" with Israel. Lets get real... There was an article I wrote about Israel's Foreign minister and her recent attack of Obama . She told him not to talk to Israel and my analysis is that he'll tell her to shut it. If you want more info. on the situation and why Israel will have less influence these next 4 years check it out here.

Surely this was not meant to refute that Emanuel has the "ins" and is in fact an Israeli hard-liner?

 

[BlackAsCoal]

You better hope it's sad and pathetic. I'm not convinced, Emanuel was not picked because of his religion, but political instincts. Don't mix those, Jillian.

The question of Israeli influence throughout every level of our government is a very sane and valid question .. as would be if 3% of any population had such control.

Question .. would the son of any terrorist .. other than an Israeli terrorist .. be seriously considered for such a position?

Question: What message do you think choosing Emanuel sends to not only the arab world, but to every nation .. particularly in light of the fact that Israel is considered the most rogue and dangerous nation on earth by the rest of the world.

Question: Where is the "change?"

 

[Gunny]

The "dumb factor" in this thread is hurting my brain.

 

[xsited1]

Obama is firmly in Israel's pocket. That's why the majority of Jews in the United States voted for him. At least he knows his place according to the 'chosen ones'.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

The "dumb factor" in this thread is hurting my brain.

Frankly brother, I would like to hear your serious and honest perspective on this issue. I'm not trying to goad you into combat or flame wars in the least .. I'd just like to hear your perspective.

 

[Sunni Man]

Obama is firmly in Israel's pocket. That's why the majority of Jews in the United States voted for him. At least he knows his place according to the 'chosen ones'.

Make no mistake about it. All american politicians of high office are controlled by the Z.O.G. government of the United States.

To them Israel comes first, and America is only useful in furthering Zionist ambitions for Israel.

 

[editec]

What exactly is Israel doing that they support ? Guarding the fort ?

BEING.

Since they believe the apocrpha known as the Revelations of St. John, they believe that Israel must exist so that the world can come to an end.

The irony is most of these types used to be antiSemites until this new wrinkle in their political philosophy made becoming supporters of Isreal part of their religious dogma.

Now, as far as I understand it, some sects of fundamentalist Judaism believes that man will not found the New Israel, but GOD must

Hence there is a sect of fundamentalist Jews (ironically most of whom lived in Palestine before Neo-Isreal existed) who object to the manmade government of Isreal.

It's all a load of blather to me.

But then too, I'm not looking forward to the end of the world, either, no matter who's story about how it occurs happens to be true.

 

[Gunny]

Frankly brother, I would like to hear your serious and honest perspective on this issue. I'm not trying to goad you into combat or flame wars in the least .. I'd just like to hear your perspective.

Which part? The topic of Israel is a rather complex one. As far as the original post in this thread goes, claiming that Israel cannot be allowed to define the US ... since when did Israel define the US?

IMO, the enemies of Israel are the natrural enemies of civilized man. Terrorist organizations bent on the destruction of a nation and genocide of a people. Claiming they are "our" enemies simply because they are Israel's enemies is purposefully attempting to mislead.

The government of Palestine, as elected by the majority of the Palestinian people is an international terrorist organization. That defines Palestine itself as a terrorist state, and its own people willingly did so.

Terrorism is a crime in just about every country I'm aware of. The US has declared "war" on terrorism. That would make terrorists/terrorist organizations our enemies in their own right, not because anyone is allowing Israel to dictate who our enemies are and are not.

If you want to get into Israel in general .... Israel existe because of Eurpoean antisemitism and an effort to get Jews as far away from Europe as possible in the guise of the noble cause of "providing the Jews a homeland."

The fearmongering and antisemitism that eventually culminated in that decision is the verysame fearmongering and antisemitism I see being posted TODAY.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Which part? The topic of Israel is a rather complex one. As far as the original post in this thread goes, claiming that Israel cannot be allowed to define the US ... since when did Israel define the US?

IMO, the enemies of Israel are the natrural enemies of civilized man. Terrorist organizations bent on the destruction of a nation and genocide of a people. Claiming they are "our" enemies simply because they are Israel's enemies is purposefully attempting to mislead.

The government of Palestine, as elected by the majority of the Palestinian people is an international terrorist organization. That defines Palestine itself as a terrorist state, and its own people willingly did so.

Terrorism is a crime in just about every country I'm aware of. The US has declared "war" on terrorism. That would make terrorists/terrorist organizations our enemies in their own right, not because anyone is allowing Israel to dictate who our enemies are and are not.

If you want to get into Israel in general .... Israel existe because of Eurpoean antisemitism and an effort to get Jews as far away from Europe as possible in the guise of the noble cause of "providing the Jews a homeland."

The fearmongering and antisemitism that eventually culminated in that decision is the verysame fearmongering and antisemitism I see being posted TODAY.

Thank you brother, much respect for your perspective.

However, I disagree with some of it.

Arabs are ever bit as "semitic" as Israelis, thus the term "anti-semitism" is a misnomer and created to avoid conversations and critical thinking on Israel.

since when did Israel define the US?

Israeli hard-liners exist in both mainstream corporate parties .. this in spite of being 3% of the US population.

Israel is in violation of more UN Resolutions than any nation on earth, including Iraq, North Korea, and Iran. The US consistently intervenes in any and every attempt by the world community to moderate Isareli aggression and atrocities.

The "terrorists" from 9/11 were from Saudia Arabia .. would you suggest we invade Saudia Arabia no matter how many "terrorists" are found there?

The Rand Corporation, whom I'm sure you're aware of, says the war on terroris a hoax and chasing terrorists would be better done by polce organizations.

I do not agree that those who stand against Israel are "the enemies of civilized people" .. especially given that many of those who stand against Israel and the ocupation are Israelis themselves.

Israel is an artificial state created in Arab lands by European colonial powers after World War II. Instead of working to win acceptance and overcoming Arab hostility to Europe shipping off "the Jewish problem" to the Middle East, Israel has antagonized its Middle East neighbors. Israel can play the bully-boy role, because the US acts as Israel's big brother. With its policy of fang and claw, Israel endangers its own right to exist.

Now that Israel does exist, regardless of its inception, I support it's right to continue to exist, but as a responsible neighbor and citizen of the world. I do not support it's right to bring down America with it.

 

[Shogun]

just like all those other big bad "Wars on" we have declared (drugs, poverty, etc) terrorism seem to be in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Gunny]

Thank you brother, much respect for your perspective.

However, I disagree with some of it.

Arabs are ever bit as "semitic" as Israelis, thus the term "anti-semitism" is a misnomer and created to avoid conversations and critical thinking on Israel.

I am aware of the misnomer in regard to the term "antisemitic" insofar as the original definition of the word goes.

However, as the word is currently used:

antisemitic

adjective
relating to or characterized by anti-Semitism; hating Jews [syn: anti-semitic]

antisemitic definition | Dictionary.com

If it makes you feel better, you can replace it with Jew-hating.

Israeli hard-liners exist in both mainstream corporate parties .. this in spite of being 3% of the US population.

I'm sure. I didn't say they didn't exist.

Israel is in violation of more UN Resolutions than any nation on earth, including Iraq, North Korea, and Iran. The US consistently intervenes in any and every attempt by the world community to moderate Isareli aggression and atrocities.

And the UN has consistently ruled against Israel and in favor of Palestine. Imagine that. There are no rules to survival except "win."

The "terrorists" from 9/11 were from Saudia Arabia .. would you suggest we invade Saudia Arabia no matter how many "terrorists" are found there?

Not sure where you are coming from on this one. To my knowledge, we have not invaded Palestine, nor do we intend to. I have not suggested invading anyone.

The fact that Islamic fundamentalist terrorists came from Saudi Arabia means little to me. That's like saying Oklahoma could invade Timothy McVeigh's homestate. What does point of origin have to do with their criminal activity?

If your point is that Wahabbism, the extremist version of Sunni Islam presents a threat, and originated in Saudi Arabia to counter Shi'ism when it first began to spread following WWII, I agree.

However, Saudi Arabia is not a terrorist nation, and in fact is having to combat terrorism itself. That's a far cry from the people of Palestine democratically electing a terrorist organization to act on its behalf as their legitimate government.

The Rand Corporation, whom I'm sure you're aware of, says the war on terroris a hoax and chasing terrorists would be better done by polce organizations.

Hoax? I disagree with that term. However, using conventional military force to combat terrorism is like conducting surgery with a battleaxe.

I do not agree that those who stand against Israel are "the enemies of civilized people" .. especially given that many of those who stand against Israel and the ocupation are Israelis themselves.

Okay.

Israel is an artificial state created in Arab lands by European colonial powers after World War II. Instead of working to win acceptance and overcoming Arab hostility to Europe shipping off "the Jewish problem" to the Middle East, Israel has antagonized its Middle East neighbors. Israel can play the bully-boy role, because the US acts as Israel's big brother. With its policy of fang and claw, Israel endangers its own right to exist.

Israel is a state that was first conceptualized following WWI, and as I previously stated, by the rules of the day, to the victor goes the spoils. The Ottoman Empire was on the losing side. As a consequence, the empire was broken up and the victors assumed mandates in its former satellites.

Kind of revising history calling Israel the bully boys, aren't you? The Arab nations have on several occasions, acting alone or in concert have attacked Israel. Basically, you are accusing them of defending their lives and property as if it's a bad thing.

Now that Israel does exist, regardless of its inception, I support it's right to continue to exist, but as a responsible neighbor and citizen of the world. I do not support it's right to bring down America with it.

Again we're back to this. I don't support Israel bringing the US down with it either. However, the argument itself is a strawman.

 

[Annie]

Never fearing to jump in where angels fear to tread, I'd like to address BAC's point on 3% of population and being an overwhelming presence in certain positions of power.

For a myriad of reasons some ethnic/religious groups have differing emphasis on certain activities. Jews and Irish Catholics traditionally valued higher education to a greater extent than most groups. For the Jews, it probably has to do with the emphasis as 'the people of the book' and also to overcome prejudice by being, 'the smartest kid on the block.' We see the same today from other minorities, have to be '3 times as good and work 4 times as hard', as those they are competing with.

For the Irish Catholics the goal of higher education really was pushed more on the girls than the boys. Why? Several hypothesis, more reasonable in my mind was the tradition of men getting killed in war or drunk when not killed. It tended to create a more matriarchal view upon life, thus the emphasis on getting their daughters the most education possible.

In both cases it led to a substantial percentage of people in those groups being better educated than would be predicted based upon socioeconomic factors and population distribution. Thus more would be found in positions of power that required said education, in spite of prejudice against both at various times.

Of such pasts futures are made, for good and ill.

 

[Neubarth]

In Islam, we also believe in the return of Jesus and the Battle of Armegeddon.

The best part is the invasion of the army of Gog and Magog and the destruction of Israel!!

That is the frightening aspect. In the Bible the countries that are going to attack Israel are Cush and Put, the nations around Israel, Gog and Magog and the Kings of the East.

Cush and Put (Putt) are the northern and eastern coasts of Africa, The Kings of the East refer to the lands of the Medo-Persian Empire (Iraq, Iran as far as western India). Gog and Magog are the people who were north and east of the Black Sea approximately 3000 years ago (Generally believed by modern schlars to be the Turkic Tribes that subsequently spread across all the land that was the southern Soviet Union and into modern Turkey.)

What do all these people and their attacking army have in common? That is right, they are followers of Muhammed (p.b.u.h.)! This attack is supposed to come during the life of the generation that sees Israel reborn. Now, unless all of these countries convert in faith, it sure looks to Christians that Islam is going to be on the wrong side of Jesus when he comes back to set up his thousand year reign on Earth.

Do your prophecies tell you that? I am open to suggestion.

I personally believe that the AntiChrist who will follow the "False Prophet" will be a Turkish leader. He may very well be the present leader of Turkey. If the Bible is right, this evil leader with the assistance of the teachings of the False Prophet will unify ten former nations into one. Present day Turkey already qualifies as it consists of parts of ten former Roman provinces.

Let the fun begin. Just make certain you are not on the wrong side in the coming war.