Israel and Bibi should negotiate with Gaza citizens to replace Hamas with a new government that the citizens will elect

[JoeB131]

Eradicating evil is perfectly moral.

Was the bombing of Dresden genocide?

It was absolutely a war crime, but war crime trials are the winners punishing the losers.

 

[JoeB131]

According to a poll done for the ADL, you're not the only one suffering from Holocaust Fatigue.

While professionally deceived Holocaustians flock from one grossly embellished Holocaust theme park to another, the majority of the thinking world has had enough of the lies on which the "world's greatest tragedy" is fabricated.

To the members of the Holocaust cult, it is "the world's greatest tragedy" only because Communist / Bolshevik Jews were among the victims.

Okay, got to kind of stop you right there....

The Holocaust was a greater tragedy than, let's say the Great Leap Forward (my wife had the misfortune of living through that as a baby) or the Holamodor where millions of Ukrainians starved because those things happened due to gross incompetence. The Holocaust was deliberate and malicious.

The thing was, Jews weren't the only victims. Six million other people also perished in the camps, including Slavs, Roma, Gays, the disabled, and we don't hear any of those groups incessantly whining or using it to excuse other bad behavior.

We SHOULD remember the Holocaust to make sure nothing like it happens again. What the Holocaust shouldn't be is a hall pass for the Zionists to mistreat the Palestinians.

 

[Billo_Really]

I certainly can.
For example, AIPAC is not shy about its role in duping Americans into fighting another war for Zionist hegemony:

“QUIETLY LOBBYING CONGRESS TO APPROVE THE USE OF FORCE IN IRAQ WAS ONE OF AIPAC’S SUCCESSES OVER THE PAST YEAR.”
AIPAC Executive Director Howard Kohr; N.Y. Sun, Jan. 2003

"Hawkish Israel Is Pulling U.S. Into War With Iran"​

Hawkish Israel Is Pulling U.S. Into War With Iran

The Biden administration seems to endorse Israel’s escalations against Iran — a move that would necessitate U.S. involvement in a conflict no one wants.

theintercept.com

"The Biden administration is appearing to endorse Israel's escalations against Iran — a move that would necessitate U.S. involvement in a new Middle East conflict no one wants."​

EXCERPT "Last week, U.S. Ambassador to Israel Thomas Nides appeared to endorse a plan for Israel to attack Iranian nuclear facilities with U.S. support. “Israel can and should do whatever they need to deal with [Iran], and we’ve got their back,” he said at a meeting of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations." CONTINUED

Don't get me started on AIPAC!

Good articles, though. Thank you!

 

[GMCGeneral]

Reality check. Hamas won the election because most Palestinians don't want to negotiate with the Zionist Squatters.

hey Joe, five words for you:

SHUT THE BLUE FUCK UP!!!!​

You are a blatant antiSemite.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Hamas is now going to be eliminated and Gaza citizens will need a new government there. As IDF hunt down and bring to justice the terrorists this should be considered. Many if not most citizens there are discontented anyways so why not ask them if they have a moderate, non-militant government that can replace their current government that is on the run? This would probably save more lives in the long run.

Permanently destroy all water and power sources. Make GAZA Uninhabitable.

 

[JoeB131]

hey Joe, five words for you:

SHUT THE BLUE FUCK UP!!!!​

You are a blatant antiSemite.

The Palestinians are more genuinely Semitic than the Squatters from Central Europe.

 

[GMCGeneral]

The Palestinians are more genuinely Semitic than the Squatters from Central Europe.

No, they are not. Descendants of Ishmael are cursed of G-d unless they repent.

 

[JoeB131]

No, they are not. Descendants of Ishmael are cursed of G-d unless they repent.

The scary thing is you believe these Bronze Age fairy tales are true.

 

[GMCGeneral]

The scary thing is you believe these Bronze Age fairy tales are true.

You bought into Satan's lie hook, line, and sinker.

 

[JoeB131]

You bought into Satan's lie hook, line, and sinker.

Yes, Satan planted all those Dinosaur bones.

 

[Grau]

Okay, got to kind of stop you right there....

The Holocaust was a greater tragedy than, let's say the Great Leap Forward (my wife had the misfortune of living through that as a baby) or the Holamodor where millions of Ukrainians starved because those things happened due to gross incompetence. The Holocaust was deliberate and malicious.

The thing was, Jews weren't the only victims. Six million other people also perished in the camps, including Slavs, Roma, Gays, the disabled, and we don't hear any of those groups incessantly whining or using it to excuse other bad behavior.

We SHOULD remember the Holocaust to make sure nothing like it happens again. What the Holocaust shouldn't be is a hall pass for the Zionists to mistreat the Palestinians.

I don't want to derail this thread by discussing the Holocaust but would be happy to do so at an appropriate thread.

I lived, worked and studied in Germany about 50 years ago where I knew, worked, lived, ate and drank with several Holocaust survivors, German WW 2 Veterans, German firebombing survivors, a former translator for the SS etc.
Before that, I grew up around numerous American WW 2 Veterans who served in Europe and were frequently open in discussing their experiences under the right circumstances.

In addition to independent research, at least I have heard both sides of what happened and did not happen in Europe during the WW 2 era.

Next, a former "White Russian" (vs "Red / Communist Russian) from my old neighborhood used to tell my mother about her nightmares. She was about 15 when the Red Russians / Bolsheviks murdered her family and servants, burned her home and left her for dead. She was eventually captured by all the major armies but strongly maintained to the end that the Germans treated her best of all.

Since I was / am fluent in German, studied Middle German and Middle English, I was able to read original documents, speeches and quotes and detect mistranslations deliberate fakes and the changes in language that occur over the decades. You wouldn't believe the number of deliberate mistranslations, bad translations and outright fake documents and photos there are regarding WW 2 and the Holocaust.

Like most people, I base my opinions about what happened in the WW 2 era on trustworthy personal accounts, independent research and common sense.

While we apparently differ when it comes to our opinions about the details concerning the Holocaust, we see to agree that it has been crassly exploited for the purposes of ethnic cleansing, extorting $ Billions, land theft, and pity mongering.

The so called lessons of the Holocaust have clearly been lost on those who whine about it the most.

Since it is apparent that anyone who doesn't want every single native resident of Palestine dead is an "anti Semite", I thought that you might like the following quote:



"An antisemite used to be someone who hates Jews;

nowadays an antisemite is someone Jews hate.”


- Gilad Atzmon, Jewish musician and author, 2011

Gilad Atzmon Quote: âAn antisemite used to be someone who hates Jews; nowadays an antisemite is someone Jews hate.â

“An antisemite used to be someone who hates Jews; nowadays an antisemite is someone Jews hate.” — Gilad Atzmon quotes from QuoteFancy.com

quotefancy.com

Thanks,

 

[JoeB131]

I don't want to derail this thread by discussing the Holocaust but would be happy to do so at an appropriate thread.

I lived, worked and studied in Germany about 50 years ago where I knew, worked, lived, ate and drank with several Holocaust survivors, German WW 2 Veterans, German firebombing survivors, a former translator for the SS etc.
Before that, I grew up around numerous American WW 2 Veterans who served in Europe and were frequently open in discussing their experiences under the right circumstances.

In addition to independent research, at least I have heard both sides of what happened and did not happen in Europe during the WW 2 era.

Next, a former "White Russian" (vs "Red / Communist Russian) from my old neighborhood used to tell my mother about her nightmares. She was about 15 when the Red Russians / Bolsheviks murdered her family and servants, burned her home and left her for dead. She was eventually captured by all the major armies but strongly maintained to the end that the Germans treated her best of all.

Since I was / am fluent in German, studied Middle German and Middle English, I was able to read original documents, speeches and quotes and detect mistranslations deliberate fakes and the changes in language that occur over the decades. You wouldn't believe the number of deliberate mistranslations, bad translations and outright fake documents and photos there are regarding WW 2 and the Holocaust.

Like most people, I base my opinions about what happened in the WW 2 era on trustworthy personal accounts, independent research and common sense.

While we apparently differ when it comes to our opinions about the details concerning the Holocaust, we see to agree that it has been crassly exploited for the purposes of ethnic cleansing, extorting $ Billions, land theft, and pity mongering.

The so called lessons of the Holocaust have clearly been lost on those who whine about it the most.

Since it is apparent that anyone who doesn't want every single native resident of Palestine dead is an "anti Semite", I thought that you might like the following quote:



"An antisemite used to be someone who hates Jews;

nowadays an antisemite is someone Jews hate.”


- Gilad Atzmon, Jewish musician and author, 2011

Gilad Atzmon Quote: âAn antisemite used to be someone who hates Jews; nowadays an antisemite is someone Jews hate.â

“An antisemite used to be someone who hates Jews; nowadays an antisemite is someone Jews hate.” — Gilad Atzmon quotes from QuoteFancy.com

quotefancy.com

Thanks,

I guess I have a different opinion. My grandparents immigrated here from Germany in 1925, and briefly returned to Germany in 1930. My dad was drafted into the US Army in 1943, and saw action at Normandy and the Battle of the Bulge (among others).

He also was part of the group that liberated a concentration camp called Nordhausen. The things he saw during the war haunted him for the rest of his life, which was relatively short (he died at age 56). He had no use for people who tried to claim the Holocaust didn't happen. He took photos of the things he saw there. I still have a couple of them, but most of them were destroyed by my grandmother, who was ashamed Germans could do such a thing.

I would agree with you that the Holocaust has become shorthand for people like Lisa558 to deflect ANY criticism of Israel as "Anti-Semitism".

 

[Grau]

I guess I have a different opinion. My grandparents immigrated here from Germany in 1925, and briefly returned to Germany in 1930. My dad was drafted into the US Army in 1943, and saw action at Normandy and the Battle of the Bulge (among others).

He also was part of the group that liberated a concentration camp called Nordhausen. The things he saw during the war haunted him for the rest of his life, which was relatively short (he died at age 56). He had no use for people who tried to claim the Holocaust didn't happen. He took photos of the things he saw there. I still have a couple of them, but most of them were destroyed by my grandmother, who was ashamed Germans could do such a thing.

I would agree with you that the Holocaust has become shorthand for people like Lisa558 to deflect ANY criticism of Israel as "Anti-Semitism".

Our opinions may not be as far apart as you might think.

My great grandparents came from Germany in the 1900s and I still have / had relatives just north of Dresden.
I don't doubt that what your father saw was horrific even if he got to the camp before Allied propagandists staged things to look even worse than they really were.

I think that any objective person will admit that all sides used wartime propaganda to make the other side look bad and demoralize the enemy.
The Allies were lucky enough to have the widespread influence and creative imagination of Hollywood's movie moguls (1) to work with America's propaganda ministry (the O.W.I. Office of War Information)

The bodies of dead German POWs were used to increase the size of the body piles, fake "human skin" lampshades, fake "human fat" soap, shrunken heads from faraway and other deliberate hoaxes were Allied Propagandists and Hollywood movie moguls

“The Director of the Holocau$t - Khazar Expatriate Billy Wilder”

The Director of the Holocau$t - Khazar Expatriate Billy Wilder : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The Director of the Holocaust - Khazar Expatriate Billy Wilder Almost all the films you've ever seen of the Holocaust were staged. Using Allied propaganda as...

archive.org

EXCERPT “Almost all the films you've ever seen of the Holocaust were staged. Using Allied propaganda as a rough script, directors from Hollywood were shipped to Germany and Poland to direct propaganda films for post-war use. One of the most notable of these was Billy Wilder, director of meny very well known films, such as "Some Like It Hot" with Marilyn Monroe." CONTINUED

I don't know anyone who doubts that the typhus ridden German work camps were in shambles at the end of the war but the Germans needed healthy workers more than dead bodies.
The Red Cross blamed the US and the UK for bombing of civilian transportation infrastructure which caused most of the deaths (2)

In Bergen Belsen, about 15,000 died from typhus after liberation which, according to mainstream historian, Arno Meyer, more people died of disease than were executed.

Next, Allied doctors did thousands of autopsies and confirmed that: “never was a case of poison gas uncovered.”
Additionally, these post war examination found no indication that inmates were deliberately staved to death (3)

Where I suspect our opinions differ is that you believe that there was a genocidal German agenda and I do not.

One of the main reasons I don't believe that there was an attempt by Germany's National Socialists to destroy Europe's Jews is that there were about 150,000 Jews (mixed and full) with many of them rising to the highest ranks and receiving Germany's highest honors with the full knowledge and approval of Hitler and the German High Command.(4)

Additionally, there were high ranking Jews who were National Socialist (Nazi) Party members. (5)

I don't doubt that there were very many Jews who were unjustly incarcerated like the Japanese-Americans who were either real or perceived threats to the state.

I don't expect to change your mind but can you see just a few of the contradictions that could cause anyone to question the standard Holocaust narrative especially when the Holocaust Industry has been so dishonest (6), (7) in the past?

Thanks,





(1). "The Hollywood Directors Who Filmed the Liberation of Nazi Concentration Camps"
https://hyperallergic.com/426644/lamoth-filming-the-camps-the-holocaust/

EXCERPT "George Stevens, John Ford, and Samuel Fuller, best known for their work in Hollywood, all documented the Allied liberation at the end of the war.

But during this period of war, they were acting less as artists than as functionaries of US propaganda and information efforts, working for the US Armed Forces and Secret Services.CONTINUED
(2). "RED CROSS DENIES HOLOCAUST!: 1948 ICRC Report: No Evidence Of Genocide, Gas Chambers Or Systematic Extermination Of Jews. Most Deaths Caused By “Barbarous Bombing Of Civilian Germany By the U.S and U.K. Which Is A War Crime!” – ICRC PDF Here. UPDATE: In 2006, 58 Years Later, The ICRC Changed Their Story."

https://truedemocracyparty.net/2020/03/red-cross-denies-holocaust-1947-icrc-report-no-evidence-of-genocide-gas-chambers-or-systematic-extermination-of-jews-most-deaths-caused-by-barbarous-bombing-of-civilian-germany-by-the-u-s-and-u/

EXCERPT “In 1947 The International Committee Of The Red Cross launched a Full

Investigation into the question of a Holocaust of Jews in German Controlled Concentration Camps during World War 2.

They found No Evidence Of Genocide, Gas Chambers Or Systematic Extermination Of Jews, and blamed most of the deaths on the “Barbarous Bombing Of Civilian Transportation Infrastructure in Germany By the U.S and U.K., which led to mass starvation, Typhus, and Death of the Civilian Population and in the Labor Camps which couldn’t get food, Medicine or any supplies at all. They called it a War Crime!” CONTINUED


(3). “Allied Forensic Autopsies Confirm Disease, Not Gas”

Allied Forensic Autopsies Confirm Disease, Not Gas

Medical Doctors who entered camps affirm; No-one was deliberately murdered by Germans – Death was from disease and starvation only

vk.com

EXCERPT " Despite noisily publicised claims and widespread popular notions to the contrary, no researcher has ever been able to document a German policy of extermination through starvation in the German camps.” CONTINUED



(4). “Hitler’s Jewish Army”
http://counterpsyops.com/2013/02/14/...-hitlers-army/

EXCERPT “Thousands of men of Jewish descent and hundreds of what the Nazis called ‘full Jews’ served in the German military with Adolf Hitler’s knowledge and approval.

In approximately 20 cases, Jewish soldiers in the Nazi army were awarded(*)Germany’s highest military honor, the Knight’s Cross.

Jews also served in the Nazi police and security forces as ghetto police(Ordnungdienst)()and concentration camp guards()(kapos).

So what happens to the claim that Hitler sought to exterminate all Jews, when he allowed some of them to join in his struggle against Bolshevism and International finance capitalism?" CONTINUED



(5). “List of Nazis of non-Germanic descent”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazis_of_non-Germanic_descent

EXCERPT “Notably, there were several high-ranking Nazis of full and partial Jewish descent. “ CONTINUED


(6). "17 CHARGED IN $42 MILLION HOLOCAUST FRAUD CASE"
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40093058/...ed-million-holocaust-fraud-case/#.XU62pSMwi_U

EXCERPT "Federal prosecutors said Tuesday they have broken up a long-running scam in which people falsely claimed to be victims of the Nazi persecution so they could get money out of a fund that pays Holocaust reparations."CONTINUED


(7). "HOLOCAUST CLAIMS CONFERENCE FRAUD LIKELY ‘MUCH HIGHER’ THAN $57 MILLION"

Holocaust Claims Conference fraud likely ‘much higher’ than $57 million

For over a decade, a criminal ring within the organization embezzled tens of millions of dollars through false restitution claims.

www.jpost.com

EXCERPT "For over a decade, a criminal ring within the organization embezzled tens of millions of dollars through false restitution claims.”CONTINUED

 

[surada]

If Israel was left to completely defend themselves, they would most certainly do so, but in a way that you may not like. They essentially play nice with regards to these Muslim nuts and we(the US) pay them to do so. If we cut off support, Israel would very quickly annihilate Iran, who sponsors most terrorism. If this administration(and Democrats) continues to fuel terrorism by giving them money and allowing them to develop nuclear weapons, Israel will likely call to let us know that they will be handling the situation by themselves.

The Israelis know better. The Arabs hate Hamas because they are Muslim Brotherhood. Democrats don't fund Hamas.. Bibi Netanyahu has funded them through Qatar. They are useful to his maintaining power.

 

[Grau]

The Israelis know better. The Arabs hate Hamas because they are Muslim Brotherhood. Democrats don't fund Hamas.. Bibi Netanyahu has funded them through Qatar. They are useful to his maintaining power.

You're right about Hamas being useful to Netanyahu's genocidal agenda.

Without conflict, IDF couldn't get away with killing Palestine's native residents at a rate of over 20 to one (1)

Since the time of Moshe Dayan, Israel's genocidal agenda has used its "Provoke-then-Massacre" strategy.

"Moshe Dayan, in his diaries said: "Our strategy was always to provoke the Arabs and get an appropriate response so we could attack and smash them."

Israel's illegal and internationally condemned "Settlements" served as the ideal provocation by both stealing land and inflaming Palestinian rage.

The very suspicious attack of 7 October was Netanyahu's dream come true. It has given him and like minded genocidal miscreants precisely the reaction they have worked hard to provoke so now the mass murder and weapons testing begins in full.


Thanks,




(1). “Chart: 6,407 Palestinians and 308 Israelis Killed in Violence in Last 15 Years”

Chart: 6,407 Palestinians and 308 Israelis Killed in Violence in Last 15 Years

So far, there have been over 1,200 fatalities on either side of the border following the latest bout of violence between Israel and Hamas.

thewire.in

EXCERPT “The deadliest year for Palestinian casualties had been 2014 when Hamas kidnapped and killed three Israeli teenagers. The seven weeks of war, which included Israeli airstrikes and Hamas rocket launches left over 2,310 Palestinians dead. The fatalities on the Israeli side were 73, which included 67 soldiers, and the rest civilians.” CONTINUED