Is Wikipedia politically biased? You tell me

[francoHFW]

I don't have a factual standard for what rises to the level of "stolen," because there is none.

There are facts though. One is that the procedures for elections were changed in several states in violation of elections laws passed by legislators to whom the constitution gives the power to decide how elections are run:

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

There is nothing there about county executives changing the rules passed by lawmakers, nor about judges making "emergency" decisions that election laws can't be followed, so we won't. But the fact is that those rules were changed.

My opinion is that the changes made cheating easier, and that much more cheating than usual happened.

Another fact is that the state legislatures, well aware of all the suspected cheating and well aware that their laws had been violated by election procedure changes, certified the results anyway. They had the consitutional power to do so, and they had the power to choose not to certify their results. They chose to certify.

It is my opinion that the election was not "stolen," but that it was not an authentic expression of the will of the voters either. Others look at those same facts and have the opinion that it was "stolen."

Calling opinion a lie, is incorrect.

Just the supposed facts that the opinion is based on lol. I don't think anyone here is lying, but I believe there is a hell of a lot of misinformation out there 99% on the GOP Murdoch Internet conspiracy nuts side,,,, there was absolutely no election fraud or vaccine fraud or global warming fraud or any of these other conspiracies their big oil big money propaganda machine spins with them.....

 

[Seymour Flops]

Just the supposed facts that the opinion is based on lol. I don't think anyone here is lying, but I believe there is a hell of a lot of misinformation out there 99% on the GOP Murdoch Internet conspiracy nuts side,,,, there was absolutely no election fraud or vaccine fraud or global warming fraud or any of these other conspiracies their big oil big money propaganda machine spins with them.....

If you can state that there was "absolutely" none of that, I'm sure you can prove it.

Go ahead, I'll read whatever proof you post.

 

[Natural Citizen]

.

Asking questions for the common purpose of learning or better understanding something ...
Used to be the primary reason you sent your kids to college ...

They learned how to think ... Not necessarily just what to think.

.​

Yeah, and it's rather obvious that the only fruit being produced from the so-called long march through the Institutions today, largely speaking, are bot-like people who, as you say, have effectively been trained to defend what they've been ''learned.''

Gosh. A student these days has to worry about beeng given the boot for even daring to ask a question that doesn't go along with the instructor's worldview, or whatever position said University wants to forward.

Of course, that's seperate from your thought on the influence of modern media. It's largely just another wing of the ''think and say what I tell you should think and say'' machine.

 

[Natural Citizen]

You're right, though. Stimulating dialogue is extremely rare in this modern era of political and social football.

It's Divide and Conquer. Homogenize and Conquer. Whatever the situation calls for.

 

[BlackSand]

Yeah, and it's rather obvious that the only fruit being produced from the so-called long march through the Institutions today, largely speaking, are bot-like people who, as you say, have effectively been trained to defend what they've been ''learned.''

Gosh. A student these days has to worry about beeng given the boot for even daring to ask a question that doesn't go along with the instructor's worldview, or whatever position said University wants to forward.

Of course, that's seperate from your thought on the influence of modern media. It's largely just another wing of the ''think and say what I tell you should think and say'' machine.

.

That is how you protect a pervasive ideology that can survive the first glance ... Form opinions, policies and practices to serve itself ...
And ignore the idea you might be able to deconstruct it completely with reason ... If you questioned it and looked inside.

.​

 

[Lesh]

I don't know what you mean by that really. I don't think there were any irregularities that had any effect on the vote count.

At least not on the outcome

 

[francoHFW]

At least not on the outcome

I hate it that they say that or there is no meaningful fraud, or no fraud that had a effect on the outcome. I still have seen no evidence of any fraud at all. oh OK there's like 4 examples of people who voted twice because they were morons. But that's not even fraud cause they didn't know what they were doing. At any rate, that gives the nut jobs an opportunity to say, oh there was fraud. What do you mean by meaningful fraud et cetera etcetera lol.

 

[Natural Citizen]

.

That is how you protect a pervasive ideology that can survive the first glance ... Form opinions, policies and practices to serve itself ...
And ignore the idea you might be able to deconstruct it completely with reason ... If you questioned it and looked inside.

.​

Absolutely. Problem, reaction, solution is pretty much the name of the game. It works. And it's very effective. A lot of folks, to their credit, don't really understand their roles in that partcular brand of coercion. And certainly nothing of the consequence.

Really have to restart with the young people at this point to redevelop study habits, social habits and the importance/value of reasoning and questioning. But that starts at home and in the community. Sadly, the current generation are just too far gone and committed to defending whatever ideology they've been told they should defending, rather than considering whether what they're being told the problem is, is actually the problem in scope. To do so would dictate an entirely different reaction and perhaps a much more relevant discusion with regard to any potentiial solution. An entirely different reality than the one they've been fed.

 

[francoHFW]

Yeah, and it's rather obvious that the only fruit being produced from the so-called long march through the Institutions today, largely speaking, are bot-like people who, as you say, have effectively been trained to defend what they've been ''learned.''

Gosh. A student these days has to worry about beeng given the boot for even daring to ask a question that doesn't go along with the instructor's worldview, or whatever position said University wants to forward.

Of course, that's seperate from your thought on the influence of modern media. It's largely just another wing of the ''think and say what I tell you should think and say'' machine.

Yes, it's funny how educated people who watch real news are disgusted with these lies and imaginary conspiracies and total BS that the GOP base believes- the worst thing that has ever happened in american politics along with trump . That's why people go to college to find out the facts, not to hear the repetition of total garbage propaganda which is what your stuff is....

 

[francoHFW]

Absolutely. Problem, reaction, solution is pretty much the name of the game. It works. And it's very effective. A lot of folks, to their credit, don't really understand their roles in that partcular brand of coercion. And certainly nothing of the consequence.

Really have to restart with the young people at this point to redevelop study habits, social habots and the importance/value of reasoning. But that starts at home and in the community. Sadly, the current generation are just to far gone and committed to defending whatever ideology they've been told they should defending.

What a load of crap, brainwashed functional moron typical GOP base dupe.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Yes, it's funny how educated people who watch real news are disgusted with these lies and imaginary conspiracies and total BS that the GOP base believes- the worst thing that has ever happened in american politics along with trump . That's why people go to college to find out the facts, not to hear the repetition of total garbage propaganda which is what your stuff is....

This is really all I gathered from that...

 

[playtime]

<ahem>

first, there was this; a week after the jan 6 insurrection:
@ 3:50 - he squarely blames donny.




THEN, there was this:

 

[Lesh]

I hate it that they say that or there is no meaningful fraud, or no fraud that had a effect on the outcome. I still have seen no evidence of any fraud at all. oh OK there's like 4 examples of people who voted twice because they were morons. But that's not even fraud cause they didn't know what they were doing. At any rate, that gives the nut jobs an opportunity to say, oh there was fraud. What do you mean by meaningful fraud et cetera etcetera lol.

Factually there was really small numbers of fraud (ie a small number of mostly Republican voters casting two ballots).

Nothing to change an election

 

[BlackSand]

An entirely different reality than the one they've been fed.

.

Reality is what it is ... It does not care how one perceives it ...
But I think I get your point.

We are straying away from Principles that promote "good" ... That are also capable of defining limits as to how far we are allowed to stray.
It's not that some ideologies do not have good intentions ... But whether or not they should be pursued in the interest of not doing more harm than good.

That won't be influenced properly in the home or community ... Until people start to understand that governing others, forcing opinions, mandating ideologies ...
Or simply trying to handle or manage something that is none of their damn business to start with ... Is not always the best answer.

With Freedom comes Personal Responsibility ... That's what we need to be teaching our kids.
However ... We are attempting to replace self-confidence with self-esteem ... Which is little more than passing the baton to Society as a measure.
They are creating slaves ... Who then bitch about being slaves as they tighten their own shackles.

It is in everything we see one way or another ... It will infect everything.

.​

 

[BULLDOG]

I don't have a factual standard for what rises to the level of "stolen," because there is none.

There are facts though. One is that the procedures for elections were changed in several states in violation of elections laws passed by legislators to whom the constitution gives the power to decide how elections are run:

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

There is nothing there about county executives changing the rules passed by lawmakers, nor about judges making "emergency" decisions that election laws can't be followed, so we won't. But the fact is that those rules were changed.

My opinion is that the changes made cheating easier, and that much more cheating than usual happened.

Another fact is that the state legislatures, well aware of all the suspected cheating and well aware that their laws had been violated by election procedure changes, certified the results anyway. They had the consitutional power to do so, and they had the power to choose not to certify their results. They chose to certify.

It is my opinion that the election was not "stolen," but that it was not an authentic expression of the will of the voters either. Others look at those same facts and have the opinion that it was "stolen."

Calling opinion a lie, is incorrect.

No doubt you are entitled to have your opinion. However, your opinion does not count. The courts have decided the changes you mentioned were legal and reasonable. The authority to make that decision was given by the constitution to the courts ------ not you. You don't have to like it. You don't have to agree. Yo don't even have to accept it, but that is the way it is. You can pout about your loss forever, but you lost, and you are wrong.

 

[BULLDOG]

Actual discussion where contributing and comparing ideas for some common purpose of learning or better understanding something in some semblance of synergy is almost an art these days.

Takes patience, for sure.

Too often today, it's always about winning something. But what?

You are correct as long as the discussion is rational. There would be no reason to even try to have a rational discussion about whether the earth is flat, or whether unicorns exist. Likewise, it would be a waste of time discussing why you think that election was stolen. It doesn't matter why you think that. because it wasn't stolen. You believe an irrational premise.

 

[francoHFW]

Factually there was really small numbers of fraud (ie a small number of mostly Republican voters casting two ballots).

Nothing to change an election

I believe it is 4 morons you're talking about, so that's giving four idiots a hell of a lot too much attention.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Likewise, it would be a waste of time discussing why you think that election was stolen. It doesn't matter why you think that. because it wasn't stolen. You believe an irrational premise.

For the record, I don't believe I've ever engaged in that discussion around here. And especially not in the Mickey Mouse way some of you do.

Get back in your hole and don't tell me what I think. You're out of your league, winger. And don't come out of it until you learn how to act.

 

[Seymour Flops]

No doubt you are entitled to have your opinion. However, your opinion does not count. The courts have decided the changes you mentioned were legal and reasonable. The authority to make that decision was given by the constitution to the courts ------ not you.

No, it was not. I quoted you the part of the constitution that assigns power over elections and it did not mention the courts.

You don't have to like it. You don't have to agree. Yo don't even have to accept it, but that is the way it is. You can pout about your loss forever, but you lost, and you are wrong.

Aaand that's why it is so pointless to argue with Dems. When they lose they fall back on childishness. Of course I don't have to like it, and I don't. Whatever I can do to stop another stolen election, I will do, thought it won't be much. I can advocate that we work toward securing the elections, securing the border and and whatever else I want to advocate. Suddenly ceasing to debate with the equivalent of "too bad, nyaah!," makes you look foolish.

My opinion counts as much as yours does, and I don't have to change it in wake of a court decision. The courts are staffed with politicians, same as congress and the White House.

 

[BlackSand]

Likewise, it would be a waste of time discussing why you think that election was stolen. It doesn't matter why you think that.

.

The election has been decided ... The seat is taken ... And we should only desire to restore confidence.

Denial is always the easiest form of debate ...
And often shows the wanton neglect of concerns regarding other conditions that may be present and could be avoided ...
It is never a way of achieving Continuous Improvement ... Quite the opposite to be more precise.

It's simply a sloppy excuse not to look any harder.
Insisting it is necessary to deny all the possibilities ... It will never restore confidence ...
Has no intention of being thorough and diligent ... And is just another way to escape one's own insecurities.

.​