Is "Water" a Human Right?

[Sallow]

Just say it----You think the government should take from the haves to provide for the have nots. Food, Shelter, Clothing, Heath care, Birth control, ad nauseum.

You do know what happens when the "haves" have too much, right?

The have nots slaughter them.

Check your history.

ahhhh a threat ---finally.

No threat at all.

I'm one of the haves.

 

[Contumacious]

Yeah..water is a right.

And it falls under general welfare.

A human body will die after 3 days without water.

Governor Rick Snyder is an asshole.

Yo Vern

In that case let the citizens of detroit go to Lake Michigan , fill up their buckets with water and carry it back to their residences. Its their right.

The name Michigan is the French form of the Ojibwa word mishigamaa, meaning "large water" or "large lake".

.

Why is it you folks always take the most inhumane fucked up position on any issue?

Shutting off the water for people is despicable and patently stupid.

Those pipes are made to have water flowing through them all the time. Shutting the water off is crazy. Aside from drying up the seals? The pipes function best at a certain temperature which needs to be maintained.

.

Yo Vern, are you saying that the folks in Detroit do not know how to locate Lake Michigan?

WHO pays to process the water and distribute it in those pipes?

.

 

[Sallow]

Water is a necessity just like food and shelter. Its not a right. Come on folks.

The only reason to live in the sort of groups humans live in is to share responsibilities and resources.

Otherwise? There is no reason for a government.

None.

You folks are so set on deconstructing the very fabric of society, you really should try the alternative first.

Go into the wilderness, naked, and try to survive for a week.

Let us all know how it works out for you.

Our constitutions main concern is protecting its citizens. It enumerates that. Its not my responsibility to clothe, feed, or provide shelter for you. That responsibility falls upon you.

No pepsi challenge for you eh?

Thought so.

 

[Silhouette]

Anything we decide is a right, is a right. We can certainly put forth criteria upon which we will base that determination.

....like, "without which you will die in 3 days time or less, depending on the external temperatures or exertion."?

or like..."without a fresh supply will taint your liver and kill you within five years or less."

Next topic: Will the Safe Drinking Water Act cover forcing fracking companies to disclose their chemicals to the public before pumping them directly into subterranian zones that percolate into the public drinking water supply? Will the public be able to weigh in on that or be arrested and put in jail for talking about it? http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...cking-jail-time-for-discussing-chemicals.html

 

[Sallow]

Yo Vern

In that case let the citizens of detroit go to Lake Michigan , fill up their buckets with water and carry it back to their residences. Its their right.

The name Michigan is the French form of the Ojibwa word mishigamaa, meaning "large water" or "large lake".

.

Why is it you folks always take the most inhumane fucked up position on any issue?

Shutting off the water for people is despicable and patently stupid.

Those pipes are made to have water flowing through them all the time. Shutting the water off is crazy. Aside from drying up the seals? The pipes function best at a certain temperature which needs to be maintained.

.

Yo Vern, are you saying that the folks in Detroit do not know how to locate Lake Michigan?

WHO pays to process the water and distribute it in those pipes?

.

Doesn't freakin matter.

Are you hoping for shanty towns around the lake?

Seriously?

Because that's what's going to happen.

And eventually..the people in those shanty towns will become angry.

 

[Rotagilla]

No----I'm asking if he thinks that every citizen in America should have water pumped to them for free.

No.
Only negroes. They're special, you know. The rules of society shouldn't apply to them.

FYI-only 39% of the late bills comes from blacks, and only about 20% of the money past due.

That is incorrect.
Read it again.

Those figures are from ONE SINGLE DISTRICT...The MOST "diverse" in the city. Now..go look up a majority black district and lets see the numbers.


Sheffield’s District 5 is the most diverse in the city. Thirty-nine percent of the district’s residents are Black, and 38 percent are Latino; they are also the poorest residents in the city, with a per capita annual income of $16,753.

Regardless, typically negroes lead the way in dysfunction even in the most "DIVERSE" district.

Detroit is a microcosm of what america will become. When non-Whites become the majority, they have to be able to maintain the civilization they inherited.
And clearly, as we see in Detroit, California, etc. they are unable to do that.

 

[dilloduck]

You do know what happens when the "haves" have too much, right?

The have nots slaughter them.

Check your history.

ahhhh a threat ---finally.

No threat at all.

I'm one of the haves.

So really the operative question here is "Should we take care of the have nots so they don't get restless" ?

 

[Rotagilla]

ahhhh a threat ---finally.

No threat at all.

I'm one of the haves.

So really the operative question here is "Should we take care of the have nots so they don't get restless" ?

No.
Let them "get restless".

Let's see how that works out for them.

 

[Care4all]

Dillo, these people are not taking from the "haves", they pay property taxes and city taxes and sales taxes on what they buy, and cigarette taxes, and alcohol taxes, and probably buy lotto that is also a form of taxes collected....even if they are paying rent, their rent money pays these taxes on the property.

these are not people on gvt assistance, because if they were on gvt assistance, they qualify for the gvts water program that pays for water...automatically.

so we are talking about the working poor, for the most part...some may not be, but MOST are the working poor....

Do you think these people want their tax dollars to go for paying for new football stadiums? Or new commercial developments in areas of the city that they can only reach by 3 bus route changes....??? Or tax breaks for businesses that don't even enter their communities? Or to pay some gvt worker with their taxes paid twice the normal salary rate of themselves?

 

[Contumacious]

California has long been known to go through periods of drought. We haven't built a new dam in ages...in fact, the Prog Whackjobs want to destroy water storage.

The answer is more dams and reservoirs and additional water distribution systems...as well as desalinization. It also wouldn't hurt to get rid of welfare/social services which act as non-productive population magnets, but that's another topic.

We have a parallel issues with electricity and highways/bridges.

The answer is the FREE MARKET.

Let investors find ways to obtain and distribute potable water. Get Jerry and marxists out of the ******* way.

Now water may be more expensive but is a lot better than thirst. But in the long run competition will benefit everyone.

.

you really think water should become a commodity.....like oil...?

Yep.

Unless you like shortages.

.

 

[dilloduck]

Dillo, these people are not taking from the "haves", they pay property taxes and city taxes and sales taxes on what they buy, and cigarette taxes, and alcohol taxes, and probably buy lotto that is also a form of taxes collected....even if they are paying rent, their rent money pays these taxes on the property.

these are not people on gvt assistance, because if they were on gvt assistance, they qualify for the gvts water program that pays for water...automatically.

so we are talking about the working poor, for the most part...some may not be, but MOST are the working poor....

Do you think these people want their tax dollars to go for paying for new football stadiums? Or new commercial developments in areas of the city that they can only reach by 3 bus route changes....??? Or tax breaks for businesses that don't even enter their communities? Or to pay some gvt worker with their taxes paid twice the normal salary rate of themselves?

It's the government that they elected that is making these decisions for them right ? How is screaming " I have a right to water " going to alleviate the situation?

 

[Rotagilla]

Dillo, these people are not taking from the "haves", they pay property taxes and city taxes and sales taxes on what they buy, and cigarette taxes, and alcohol taxes, and probably buy lotto that is also a form of taxes collected....even if they are paying rent, their rent money pays these taxes on the property.

I pay all of those things (except cigarettes and alcohol)...and I pay my water bill.

these are not people on gvt assistance, because if they were on gvt assistance, they qualify for the gvts water program that pays for water...automatically.

You can support that claim, of course?
Regardless...people who refuse to pay their water bill should not expect taxpayers to pay it for them..Hell..why don't we ALL stop paying our water bill..the government will "help" us, right?

so we are talking about the working poor, for the most part...some may not be, but MOST are the working poor....

Support that claim. Quit making excuses and speculating

Do you think these people want their tax dollars to go for paying for new football stadiums? Or new commercial developments in areas of the city that they can only reach by 3 bus route changes....??? Or tax breaks for businesses that don't even enter their communities? Or to pay some gvt worker with their taxes paid twice the normal salary rate of themselves?

I didn't see any of that in the article...did you make it all up to prop up your weak argument?

 

[itfitzme]

Nice vague post...

So tell me.

Is water a right?

vs.

Is gun ownership a right?

It's important to define the basis of what further logic and reason rests upon. All reasoning begins with postulates and axioms that cannot be proven and must there for sstand on their own.

The two rights you propose are not so easily answered without setting forth some circumstance within which it is examined. And, we lack some basic axioms.

Are we discussing a Robinson Cruiso situation? O are we considering a large, complex, working societ?

I have one axiom, that of symetery. I am oligated to treat you in no better manner than you treat me and others.

Words and phrases have no other purpose than to transfer information from one person to others. If words and/or phrases are vague, then so is the information transfered. Therefore, we need to maintain the pureness of meaning to maintain the accuracy of information transfer. For example, an axiom is a truth so obvious that it does not require proof. Axioms are used to build theorems through deductive reasoning.

A 'right' as used here, is a moral or legal entitlement to have or obtain something, or to act in a certain way. Human rights are moral rights that are not necessarily legal rights. Are all people morally entitled to water for personal sustenance? Yes, without a doubt. Are all people legally entitled to water for personal sustenance? I would say yes.

Now, the hard question. Are people entitled to have someone else, or some entity, private or public, provide that water to them? Yes, no, and maybe. If that someone else, or some entity, has a government permit that provides them the sole distributorship of water to a specified area, then I would say that someone, or entity, has both a moral and legal obligation to ensure all people in that area have adequate access to water for simple sustenance.

In Detroit, for example, the city should have already established public water sources where people, who have had their water shut off for non payment, can fill their jugs and buckets for water to sustain life. They should also provide for human waste disposal, since toilets no longer flush.

The OP article mentioned sanitation. I feel this is an important point. We do not want people's toilet water being shut off. Personal sanitation problems quickly become everyone elses sanitation problems. I believe that the cost of clean up, after the fact, is far greater than the cost of keeping their toilet supplied.

The question of what is and isn't a "right" becomes meaningless pretty fast when the real consequences of not providing adequate sanitation is accepted.

Unless you are hoping they will die and stop pissing and shitting. Even then, you still have the issue of decaying corpses.

Anyone up for a cost-benefit analysis?

 

[Care4all]

No.
Only negroes. They're special, you know. The rules of society shouldn't apply to them.

FYI-only 39% of the late bills comes from blacks, and only about 20% of the money past due.

That is incorrect.
Read it again.

Those figures are from ONE SINGLE DISTRICT...The MOST "diverse" in the city. Now..go look up a majority black district and lets see the numbers.


Sheffield’s District 5 is the most diverse in the city. Thirty-nine percent of the district’s residents are Black, and 38 percent are Latino; they are also the poorest residents in the city, with a per capita annual income of $16,753.

Regardless, typically negroes lead the way in dysfunction even in the most "DIVERSE" district.

Detroit is a microcosm of what america will become. When non-Whites become the majority, they have to be able to maintain the civilization they inherited.
And clearly, as we see in Detroit, California, etc. they are unable to do that.

But it said that 11% of the past due water bills comes from Commercial businesses, BUT COMMERCIAL BUSINESSES account FOR 50% of the ALL the money owed on past due water bills....

 

[Contumacious]

Why is it you folks always take the most inhumane fucked up position on any issue?

Shutting off the water for people is despicable and patently stupid.

Those pipes are made to have water flowing through them all the time. Shutting the water off is crazy. Aside from drying up the seals? The pipes function best at a certain temperature which needs to be maintained.

.

Yo Vern, are you saying that the folks in Detroit do not know how to locate Lake Michigan?

WHO pays to process the water and distribute it in those pipes?

.

Doesn't freakin matter.

Are you hoping for shanty towns around the lake?

Seriously?

Because that's what's going to happen.

And eventually..the people in those shanty towns will become angry.

Look Vern, the narcotized elect fascist politicians to power . Those politicians adopt crazy taxes and regulations forcing businessmen to relocate elsewhere.

As a consequence thereof people are unemployed and can not afford basic services.

So the morale of the story is that if you elect to power fucked up socialist politicians like Elizabeth Warren then you pay the consequences. Ask the Somalians.

.

 

[dilloduck]

It's a failed city.


http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/23652333/from-then-until-now-a-look-at-detroits-80-year-corruption

 

[Care4all]

Dillo, these people are not taking from the "haves", they pay property taxes and city taxes and sales taxes on what they buy, and cigarette taxes, and alcohol taxes, and probably buy lotto that is also a form of taxes collected....even if they are paying rent, their rent money pays these taxes on the property.

I pay all of those things (except cigarettes and alcohol)...and I pay my water bill.

these are not people on gvt assistance, because if they were on gvt assistance, they qualify for the gvts water program that pays for water...automatically.

You can support that claim, of course?
Regardless...people who refuse to pay their water bill should not expect taxpayers to pay it for them..Hell..why don't we ALL stop paying our water bill..the government will "help" us, right?

so we are talking about the working poor, for the most part...some may not be, but MOST are the working poor....

Support that claim. Quit making excuses and speculating

Do you think these people want their tax dollars to go for paying for new football stadiums? Or new commercial developments in areas of the city that they can only reach by 3 bus route changes....??? Or tax breaks for businesses that don't even enter their communities? Or to pay some gvt worker with their taxes paid twice the normal salary rate of themselves?

I didn't see any of that in the article...did you make it all up to prop up your weak argument?

Read the article, all the way to the end, (I think it is nearing the end where I read it)...it says that those on public assistance qualify for the program to help pay their water bill, but those not on public assistance have to meet these mountainous, and some times fictitious mountainous qualifications, that make it harder for them to get help.

 

[itfitzme]

Hell..why don't we ALL stop paying our water bill..the government will "help" us, right?

...

I don't know if I should be amused or sad about how completely unrealistic and meaningless that hyperbole is.

Sure, you should do that, not pay your water bill.

Is it physically possible? Sure. Is it ever going to really happen? No.

I think you are confusing the perception of free will with the reality of biology, psychology, economics and sociology.

 

[dilloduck]

Dillo, these people are not taking from the "haves", they pay property taxes and city taxes and sales taxes on what they buy, and cigarette taxes, and alcohol taxes, and probably buy lotto that is also a form of taxes collected....even if they are paying rent, their rent money pays these taxes on the property.

I pay all of those things (except cigarettes and alcohol)...and I pay my water bill.


You can support that claim, of course?
Regardless...people who refuse to pay their water bill should not expect taxpayers to pay it for them..Hell..why don't we ALL stop paying our water bill..the government will "help" us, right?



Support that claim. Quit making excuses and speculating

Do you think these people want their tax dollars to go for paying for new football stadiums? Or new commercial developments in areas of the city that they can only reach by 3 bus route changes....??? Or tax breaks for businesses that don't even enter their communities? Or to pay some gvt worker with their taxes paid twice the normal salary rate of themselves?

I didn't see any of that in the article...did you make it all up to prop up your weak argument?

Read the article, all the way to the end, (I think it is nearing the end where I read it)...it says that those on public assistance qualify for the program to help pay their water bill, but those not on public assistance have to meet these mountainous, and some times fictitious mountainous qualifications, that make it harder for them to get help.

and whose fault is that ?

 

[jasonnfree]

Why would food, water, or shelter be a right?

Since you've gone that far, you might as well throw in air. No rights except a right to life. If certain industries pollute the air and the water, and we can't afford to filter out the pollution, tough. Move somewhere where it's not polluted or die. what business do we have to complain?

Oh I agree. As plumb was saying, those are all needs not rights.

I myself think that we have a right to clean air and clean water. If the water and air are polluted it should be cleaned by whomever polluted it. Usually factories are the big culprit. Some would rather move their factories offshore and pollute somewhere else than cleaning it up. China now has the major pollution problem but we all live on the same planet and we and future citizens will suffer. My opinion for what it's worth.