Is There A God?

[Czernobog]

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The Triumph of Good vs Evil is evidence there is an Almighty in Spiritual terms whether they are the origin of the universe or not.

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"The Triumph of Good vs Evil"? Really? And, by what standards do you propose that "Good is Triumphing over Evil"?

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And, by what standards do you propose that "Good is Triumphing over Evil"?

it's not at best there is a draw in time however one will triumph over the other one will cease to exist there will become purity of one type or another. for an individual that reaches completion, a Sabbath.

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Ummm...okay...If I'm unpacking that correctly, then the obvious question becomes how does one define the terms? How is "Good" defined? How is "Evil"?

 

[Spare_change]

The original silly question ......

"What does God do to deserve our devotion?" By what delusion of egotistical, hyperinflated, sense of self importance, do you ask such a question?

I'm sorry. I didn't ridicule you, or your post. I presumed that you were making a serious attempt to offer a position on the topic, and were open to discussion. I see no reason for you to ridicule me, or to insult me for offering a challenge to your position.

God offers me eternal life. God offers me salvation for my sins. God offers me love. Why does He deserve our devotion? Because he sacrificed his son to free me from the bondage of sin.

The problem with this response is that it presumes that "sin" is some outside influence that binds you, and ties you down. It completely discounts the concept that your choices in your life are just that - yours. Why should you need someone to "save" you from the consequences of your own choices? Would not the more responsible position to be to own one's choices, and the consequences that come with them? In doing so, the question of "sin" becomes inconsequential, because everything becomes about choices, and consequences.

God does not demand "servitude" ... He demands unconditional love and commitment.

It's interesting that you would say that, as you just said that God offers you love. However, clearly his love is not unconditional. After all, he threatens Hell to those who refuse to meet his qualifications. Aquinas once described Hell as the complete absence of God; that it is an eternity beyond God's love, and grace. In other words, God no longer loves those in Hell. So, one cannot even argue that God still loves you, even in Hell, even if you don't know about it. Again, that love is not unconditional. So, God, apparently, demands from you, what he is not, himself, willing to give. And you seem to thank him for it.

"... incumbent upon God ..." How wrong you are. He owes me nothing, he has given me everything.

What? precisely? "God has given me everything" makes for a nice platitude, but it's a rather empty claim. Fill it in for me. What, precisely, has God "given" you, and how?

You say ... " ... mere existential reality... is not enough", ."... the promise of heaven, and threat of hell isn't enough ..." Clearly, you have no perception of Heaven and Hell. To you, they are abstract. To me, they are real.

I have a very clear perception of Heaven and Hell. You may feel that they are real, and that is you prerogative, however, I am not a man of emotion. I am a man of reason, and logic. Heaven, and Hell are not physical locations. There is no place on a map of either the Earth, the Solar System, or even the known Cosmos where one can point, and say, "Here is Heaven. Here is Hell," They are abstract promises of some nebulous future promise, or threat.

That, sir, is your choice. Just as I do not ridicule you for your choice, you shall not ridicule me for mine. If you truly are searching for an answer ... I will help you. If not, then may God have mercy on your soul.

There is nothing in any of my posts to you, Sir, that has been mocking, or ridiculing. You have stated a position, and I am challenging it. If you find the challenge offensive, or threatening to your belief, that says more about you, than it does me.

If you wish to have a serious discussion, let's have it. Given the consistent temperament on this board, any Christian who openly states his belief is bombarded with ridicule, bombast, name calling, and downright rudeness.The attacks are vicious, vitriolic, and, frankly, pretty childish. If you are not one of them, then I apologize. If you are, the discussion will stop immediately.

Now, on to the issue at hand ... Sin is, as you say, something that binds me down. All of us live in sin ... all of us sin every day. It envelops us, and holds us. Sin is a weight on my shoulders. God offers release and forgiveness of those sins. They are, in fact, mine ... they are the result of my choices. One of the big misconceptions of God is the idea that He controls everything, that He dictates the good things, and the bad things, that happen to us. Totally false - He has granted us free will. We make our mistakes - and we pay our price. No man is perfect - all of us sin, whether in heart, in thought, or in deed. If you profess your faith, you are in grace. But, that's not a get out of jail free card. You don't get to pile up more sin simply because you went to confession when you were 14. Man falls from grace every day.

He has also set down a standard of behavior that he expects from each and every one of us. Meet those standards, and you spend eternity in the light of the Lord. Fail to meet those standards and you spend eternity in the darkness and pain of Hell. This is not a real hard concept to understand. This is the same concept you use for your children (though, your Hell might be a chair in the corner, or bed with no dinner). God's children who fall spend eternity in Hell.

You ask about the existence of Hell. Since none of us have been to the other side, none of us can describe it, and none of us can validate it. However, if you believe in Heaven, then there must be a Hell. If you wish to define that as the absence of the Lord, I'm comfortable with that. You can't have one without the other. But, to claim it doesn't exist simply because you haven't seen it is intellectually lazy. What's the old scientific saw? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Let's see if i can explain my faith. It comforts me, it makes my day better. I know that, no matter what happens to me, no matter how bad it is, or how sick I get, there is something better ahead. If I have a horrible, painful disease, I suffer pain, just like anybody else. But, unlike most, I am at peace with it, because I know that better days await me. I know that the worst that can happen is the pain lasts the rest of my physical life, a mere pinpoint of my eternal life. I am warmed by my faith, I am protected by my faith, I am comforted by my faith.

You claim to have read the Bible. I believe you. But, have you STUDIED the Bible? I suspect not.

 

[Spare_change]

Most people think of "god" as a being who resembles them, hangs out in a place called "heaven" and passes harsh judgements on us.
"He loves us", they say. "But, He is not going to love us if we don't obey him and do as he says. He will send us to hell if we disobey him and don't keep his commandments."

Now, that's all a bit confusing to me. How can he love us and then punish us in hell for all eternity if we don't obey his laws? Always heard that love is unconditional; why is gods love conditional?

For some reason I am suppose to bow to and worship some guy who has never physically revealed himself to me. I am suppose to do it on "faith" (whatever that is).

Now, don't get me wrong, I do believe there is a higher power - a force so strong it can create and destroy everything. And I believe that higher power to be intelligent. What I cannot believe any longer, after decades of doing so, is this higher power is jealous and petty and will put me in hell for also being jealous and petty. I don't believe this higher power will call for the murdering of people, yet put me in hell for murdering without his consent. If my purpose in being on this big blue marble is to aspire to be like him, then it is my responsibility to be jealous, petty and a murderer. If this truly is the way he is, then I don't want to be like him.

There are many, many different religions on this planet. Many are indigenous to particular regions or eras of the world. For instance: You have Judaics here, Muslims there, Buddhists over there and Christians all over the place. ALL of these religions began in different locales or in close proximity to each other at different times in history. Each became government sponsored according to what manner the government chose to use them. The United States was once considered a Christian country. So was much of Europe. Israel is considered to be a Jewish state. Thailand recognizes Buddhism as its traditional religion. Islam (the Muslim religion) is practiced throughout the middle east. There are way more than four religions - I am only using four as examples to save time and space.

Nearly all religions have three things in common: 1. They believe in a god. 2. Only their religions is right. 3. Fear.
Those are the three main things they all have in common. While some are non-violent, many will kill you or condemn you to hell for believing differently from them. Even sects within each religion will condemn or kill each other for not believing as they do, even though those sects claim to worship the same god (i.e. Catholics and Protestants; Secular and ultra-orthodox Jews).

I believe that #3, Fear, is the main motivator when it comes to peoples beliefs in their religions. People are terrified of the unknown. Death is an unknown. We don't know where we are going when we die, but we don't want to end. Death is permanent and scary as hell - unless you believe in hell, then you can avoid it. All you have to do is believe and do a few rituals, follow some commandments and, POOF, you will live forever in a wonderful mansion with or without (depending on your religion) 72 virgins.

No, I am not an atheist. Atheism is a religion as wicked as all of the rest. It is based in hatred and condemnation of those who are not atheists. Just like every other religion, atheism, seeks to dictate how others should think, believe and live. Many atheists would behead you, burn you at the stake, or hang you from a cross, just as quickly as any other religion has done in the past.

So, what religion am I? Just like being a Democrat, a Republican, a Libertarian, a Anarchist, a Voluntaryist...I am none. Or am of none. I do not subscribe to any religious dogma any more than I subscribe to any political dogma. I believe there is a force of energy that is so great it can create things from nothing, including the human life form. I don't believe that energy wants me to murder, be jealous, or be petty. I believe that I was created in that energies imagine, because I too am energy and energy never dies. Energy does not know heaven, nor does it know hell. Energy is immune to such stupidity.

Long story short cubs won Trump won, what do you think?

God is good.

 

[yiostheoy]

Since I have the intellect of a five year old, instead of insulting me like another five year old might do, why aren't you educating me? Isn't that what adults do with five year olds? They don't tell them to read the philosophies (something a five year old is not ready for) they give the child the answers.

Since you do currently have the intellect of a 5 year old preschool child regarding religion, it would take hundreds of hours to educate you on Philosophy and Religion and how they interact.

The ball is therefore in your own court to get up to speed, first in Philosophy, then in Religion.

Go for it.

Good luck.

In the meantime don't expect to make any sense out of it nor to sound very intelligent when you open your mouth about it.

 

[Buck111]

Most people think of "god" as a being who resembles them, hangs out in a place called "heaven" and passes harsh judgements on us.
"He loves us", they say. "But, He is not going to love us if we don't obey him and do as he says. He will send us to hell if we disobey him and don't keep his commandments."

Now, that's all a bit confusing to me. How can he love us and then punish us in hell for all eternity if we don't obey his laws? Always heard that love is unconditional; why is gods love conditional?

For some reason I am suppose to bow to and worship some guy who has never physically revealed himself to me. I am suppose to do it on "faith" (whatever that is).

Now, don't get me wrong, I do believe there is a higher power - a force so strong it can create and destroy everything. And I believe that higher power to be intelligent. What I cannot believe any longer, after decades of doing so, is this higher power is jealous and petty and will put me in hell for also being jealous and petty. I don't believe this higher power will call for the murdering of people, yet put me in hell for murdering without his consent. If my purpose in being on this big blue marble is to aspire to be like him, then it is my responsibility to be jealous, petty and a murderer. If this truly is the way he is, then I don't want to be like him.

There are many, many different religions on this planet. Many are indigenous to particular regions or eras of the world. For instance: You have Judaics here, Muslims there, Buddhists over there and Christians all over the place. ALL of these religions began in different locales or in close proximity to each other at different times in history. Each became government sponsored according to what manner the government chose to use them. The United States was once considered a Christian country. So was much of Europe. Israel is considered to be a Jewish state. Thailand recognizes Buddhism as its traditional religion. Islam (the Muslim religion) is practiced throughout the middle east. There are way more than four religions - I am only using four as examples to save time and space.

Nearly all religions have three things in common: 1. They believe in a god. 2. Only their religions is right. 3. Fear.
Those are the three main things they all have in common. While some are non-violent, many will kill you or condemn you to hell for believing differently from them. Even sects within each religion will condemn or kill each other for not believing as they do, even though those sects claim to worship the same god (i.e. Catholics and Protestants; Secular and ultra-orthodox Jews).

I believe that #3, Fear, is the main motivator when it comes to peoples beliefs in their religions. People are terrified of the unknown. Death is an unknown. We don't know where we are going when we die, but we don't want to end. Death is permanent and scary as hell - unless you believe in hell, then you can avoid it. All you have to do is believe and do a few rituals, follow some commandments and, POOF, you will live forever in a wonderful mansion with or without (depending on your religion) 72 virgins.

No, I am not an atheist. Atheism is a religion as wicked as all of the rest. It is based in hatred and condemnation of those who are not atheists. Just like every other religion, atheism, seeks to dictate how others should think, believe and live. Many atheists would behead you, burn you at the stake, or hang you from a cross, just as quickly as any other religion has done in the past.

So, what religion am I? Just like being a Democrat, a Republican, a Libertarian, a Anarchist, a Voluntaryist...I am none. Or am of none. I do not subscribe to any religious dogma any more than I subscribe to any political dogma. I believe there is a force of energy that is so great it can create things from nothing, including the human life form. I don't believe that energy wants me to murder, be jealous, or be petty. I believe that I was created in that energies imagine, because I too am energy and energy never dies. Energy does not know heaven, nor does it know hell. Energy is immune to such stupidity.

Long story short cubs won Trump won, what do you think?

God is good.

It is funny that you ask the poster you were replying to if he had studied the bible and then say to me "God is good."
I have studied the bible and one of the things that has, for years, perplexed me is bible believers ignoring that "god" commands them to not call him "god". He says there are many gods. How can you believe in something you have no full knowledge of?

 

[yiostheoy]

God is good.

Yes, and this is precisely the conclusion that Rene Descartes came to on his own.

He was the first to do a philosophical analysis of the issue of God starting completely from scratch in terms of pure intellectual thought.

Most modern philosophers completely ignore the issue of God or of Religion because they are both philosophical hot potatoes.

However Aristotle, Augustine, Aquinas, Descartes, and Leibniz each plunged themselves into it.

Other modern philosophers have pretty much simply followed the conclusions of Descartes and Leibniz.

Thus you can say that the topic has pretty much been beaten to death and any more analysis of it would simply be kicking a dead horse. And anyone not familiar with the answers already is merely at the intellectual level of a 5 year old preschool child.

Q.E.D.

 

[yiostheoy]

It is funny that you ask the poster you were replying to if he had studied the bible and then say to me "God is good."
I have studied the bible and one of the things that has, for years, perplexed me is bible believers ignoring that "god" commands them to not call him "god". He says there are many gods. How can you believe in something you have no full knowledge of?

The more you talk, the funnier you sound.

 

[Lewdog]

Most people think of "god" as a being who resembles them, hangs out in a place called "heaven" and passes harsh judgements on us.
"He loves us", they say. "But, He is not going to love us if we don't obey him and do as he says. He will send us to hell if we disobey him and don't keep his commandments."

Now, that's all a bit confusing to me. How can he love us and then punish us in hell for all eternity if we don't obey his laws? Always heard that love is unconditional; why is gods love conditional?

For some reason I am suppose to bow to and worship some guy who has never physically revealed himself to me. I am suppose to do it on "faith" (whatever that is).

Now, don't get me wrong, I do believe there is a higher power - a force so strong it can create and destroy everything. And I believe that higher power to be intelligent. What I cannot believe any longer, after decades of doing so, is this higher power is jealous and petty and will put me in hell for also being jealous and petty. I don't believe this higher power will call for the murdering of people, yet put me in hell for murdering without his consent. If my purpose in being on this big blue marble is to aspire to be like him, then it is my responsibility to be jealous, petty and a murderer. If this truly is the way he is, then I don't want to be like him.

There are many, many different religions on this planet. Many are indigenous to particular regions or eras of the world. For instance: You have Judaics here, Muslims there, Buddhists over there and Christians all over the place. ALL of these religions began in different locales or in close proximity to each other at different times in history. Each became government sponsored according to what manner the government chose to use them. The United States was once considered a Christian country. So was much of Europe. Israel is considered to be a Jewish state. Thailand recognizes Buddhism as its traditional religion. Islam (the Muslim religion) is practiced throughout the middle east. There are way more than four religions - I am only using four as examples to save time and space.

Nearly all religions have three things in common: 1. They believe in a god. 2. Only their religions is right. 3. Fear.
Those are the three main things they all have in common. While some are non-violent, many will kill you or condemn you to hell for believing differently from them. Even sects within each religion will condemn or kill each other for not believing as they do, even though those sects claim to worship the same god (i.e. Catholics and Protestants; Secular and ultra-orthodox Jews).

I believe that #3, Fear, is the main motivator when it comes to peoples beliefs in their religions. People are terrified of the unknown. Death is an unknown. We don't know where we are going when we die, but we don't want to end. Death is permanent and scary as hell - unless you believe in hell, then you can avoid it. All you have to do is believe and do a few rituals, follow some commandments and, POOF, you will live forever in a wonderful mansion with or without (depending on your religion) 72 virgins.

No, I am not an atheist. Atheism is a religion as wicked as all of the rest. It is based in hatred and condemnation of those who are not atheists. Just like every other religion, atheism, seeks to dictate how others should think, believe and live. Many atheists would behead you, burn you at the stake, or hang you from a cross, just as quickly as any other religion has done in the past.

So, what religion am I? Just like being a Democrat, a Republican, a Libertarian, a Anarchist, a Voluntaryist...I am none. Or am of none. I do not subscribe to any religious dogma any more than I subscribe to any political dogma. I believe there is a force of energy that is so great it can create things from nothing, including the human life form. I don't believe that energy wants me to murder, be jealous, or be petty. I believe that I was created in that energies imagine, because I too am energy and energy never dies. Energy does not know heaven, nor does it know hell. Energy is immune to such stupidity.

Long story short cubs won Trump won, what do you think?

God is good.

Your keyboard must have melted as you typed that.

 

[Buck111]

Since I have the intellect of a five year old, instead of insulting me like another five year old might do, why aren't you educating me? Isn't that what adults do with five year olds? They don't tell them to read the philosophies (something a five year old is not ready for) they give the child the answers.

Since you do currently have the intellect of a 5 year old preschool child regarding religion, it would take hundreds of hours to educate you on Philosophy and Religion and how they interact.

The ball is therefore in your own court to get up to speed, first in Philosophy, then in Religion.

Go for it.

Good luck.

In the meantime don't expect to make any sense out of it nor to sound very intelligent when you open your mouth about it.

Obviously you have very little, if any, knowledge in the philosophies. Theology is a part of philosophy. So you don't study "...first in Philosophy, then in Religion." BTW, neither of those should have been capitalized.

You do not know my credentials, sir.

 

[Spare_change]

Most people think of "god" as a being who resembles them, hangs out in a place called "heaven" and passes harsh judgements on us.
"He loves us", they say. "But, He is not going to love us if we don't obey him and do as he says. He will send us to hell if we disobey him and don't keep his commandments."

Now, that's all a bit confusing to me. How can he love us and then punish us in hell for all eternity if we don't obey his laws? Always heard that love is unconditional; why is gods love conditional?

For some reason I am suppose to bow to and worship some guy who has never physically revealed himself to me. I am suppose to do it on "faith" (whatever that is).

Now, don't get me wrong, I do believe there is a higher power - a force so strong it can create and destroy everything. And I believe that higher power to be intelligent. What I cannot believe any longer, after decades of doing so, is this higher power is jealous and petty and will put me in hell for also being jealous and petty. I don't believe this higher power will call for the murdering of people, yet put me in hell for murdering without his consent. If my purpose in being on this big blue marble is to aspire to be like him, then it is my responsibility to be jealous, petty and a murderer. If this truly is the way he is, then I don't want to be like him.

There are many, many different religions on this planet. Many are indigenous to particular regions or eras of the world. For instance: You have Judaics here, Muslims there, Buddhists over there and Christians all over the place. ALL of these religions began in different locales or in close proximity to each other at different times in history. Each became government sponsored according to what manner the government chose to use them. The United States was once considered a Christian country. So was much of Europe. Israel is considered to be a Jewish state. Thailand recognizes Buddhism as its traditional religion. Islam (the Muslim religion) is practiced throughout the middle east. There are way more than four religions - I am only using four as examples to save time and space.

Nearly all religions have three things in common: 1. They believe in a god. 2. Only their religions is right. 3. Fear.
Those are the three main things they all have in common. While some are non-violent, many will kill you or condemn you to hell for believing differently from them. Even sects within each religion will condemn or kill each other for not believing as they do, even though those sects claim to worship the same god (i.e. Catholics and Protestants; Secular and ultra-orthodox Jews).

I believe that #3, Fear, is the main motivator when it comes to peoples beliefs in their religions. People are terrified of the unknown. Death is an unknown. We don't know where we are going when we die, but we don't want to end. Death is permanent and scary as hell - unless you believe in hell, then you can avoid it. All you have to do is believe and do a few rituals, follow some commandments and, POOF, you will live forever in a wonderful mansion with or without (depending on your religion) 72 virgins.

No, I am not an atheist. Atheism is a religion as wicked as all of the rest. It is based in hatred and condemnation of those who are not atheists. Just like every other religion, atheism, seeks to dictate how others should think, believe and live. Many atheists would behead you, burn you at the stake, or hang you from a cross, just as quickly as any other religion has done in the past.

So, what religion am I? Just like being a Democrat, a Republican, a Libertarian, a Anarchist, a Voluntaryist...I am none. Or am of none. I do not subscribe to any religious dogma any more than I subscribe to any political dogma. I believe there is a force of energy that is so great it can create things from nothing, including the human life form. I don't believe that energy wants me to murder, be jealous, or be petty. I believe that I was created in that energies imagine, because I too am energy and energy never dies. Energy does not know heaven, nor does it know hell. Energy is immune to such stupidity.

Long story short cubs won Trump won, what do you think?

God is good.

It is funny that you ask the poster you were replying to if he had studied the bible and then say to me "God is good."
I have studied the bible and one of the things that has, for years, perplexed me is bible believers ignoring that "god" commands them to not call him "god". He says there are many gods. How can you believe in something you have no full knowledge of?

I think that, if you recall, God did not say that in the Bible .... Jesus did. He wanted to make it clear that he was not the Father.

But, i suspect you are intentionally trying to get mired in minutiae, thus avoiding a more meaningful discussion of the larger principles. I suppose your next argument is going to be that God wants all adulterers killed, right?

So be it. (Oh, by the way, God is good is a translation of the Muslim 'Allahu Akbar")

 

[yiostheoy]

I'm agnostic. I don't have any evidence that shows me there's a god.
Seeing at this world the existence of some god seems not real to me.
Much less a God who loves us...
Maybe a God exists but he's some kind of energy indifferent and imperturbable

Agnosticism is a perfectly scientific viewpoint regarding God and Religion.

But it also suggests that Science is indeed your Religion and therefore The Big Bang is your God.

The Big Bang as God does not however philosophically explain why or how The Big Bang created itself? You get caught in that dilemma whether God is your God or The Big Bang is your God.

However this issue also comes up philosophically about God Himself/Herself/Themselves as well.

The "First Cause" issue does not go away, no matter how you view it, whether as a philosopher, or as a Scientist, or as an atheist-scientist.

 

[Spare_change]

Most people think of "god" as a being who resembles them, hangs out in a place called "heaven" and passes harsh judgements on us.
"He loves us", they say. "But, He is not going to love us if we don't obey him and do as he says. He will send us to hell if we disobey him and don't keep his commandments."

Now, that's all a bit confusing to me. How can he love us and then punish us in hell for all eternity if we don't obey his laws? Always heard that love is unconditional; why is gods love conditional?

For some reason I am suppose to bow to and worship some guy who has never physically revealed himself to me. I am suppose to do it on "faith" (whatever that is).

Now, don't get me wrong, I do believe there is a higher power - a force so strong it can create and destroy everything. And I believe that higher power to be intelligent. What I cannot believe any longer, after decades of doing so, is this higher power is jealous and petty and will put me in hell for also being jealous and petty. I don't believe this higher power will call for the murdering of people, yet put me in hell for murdering without his consent. If my purpose in being on this big blue marble is to aspire to be like him, then it is my responsibility to be jealous, petty and a murderer. If this truly is the way he is, then I don't want to be like him.

There are many, many different religions on this planet. Many are indigenous to particular regions or eras of the world. For instance: You have Judaics here, Muslims there, Buddhists over there and Christians all over the place. ALL of these religions began in different locales or in close proximity to each other at different times in history. Each became government sponsored according to what manner the government chose to use them. The United States was once considered a Christian country. So was much of Europe. Israel is considered to be a Jewish state. Thailand recognizes Buddhism as its traditional religion. Islam (the Muslim religion) is practiced throughout the middle east. There are way more than four religions - I am only using four as examples to save time and space.

Nearly all religions have three things in common: 1. They believe in a god. 2. Only their religions is right. 3. Fear.
Those are the three main things they all have in common. While some are non-violent, many will kill you or condemn you to hell for believing differently from them. Even sects within each religion will condemn or kill each other for not believing as they do, even though those sects claim to worship the same god (i.e. Catholics and Protestants; Secular and ultra-orthodox Jews).

I believe that #3, Fear, is the main motivator when it comes to peoples beliefs in their religions. People are terrified of the unknown. Death is an unknown. We don't know where we are going when we die, but we don't want to end. Death is permanent and scary as hell - unless you believe in hell, then you can avoid it. All you have to do is believe and do a few rituals, follow some commandments and, POOF, you will live forever in a wonderful mansion with or without (depending on your religion) 72 virgins.

No, I am not an atheist. Atheism is a religion as wicked as all of the rest. It is based in hatred and condemnation of those who are not atheists. Just like every other religion, atheism, seeks to dictate how others should think, believe and live. Many atheists would behead you, burn you at the stake, or hang you from a cross, just as quickly as any other religion has done in the past.

So, what religion am I? Just like being a Democrat, a Republican, a Libertarian, a Anarchist, a Voluntaryist...I am none. Or am of none. I do not subscribe to any religious dogma any more than I subscribe to any political dogma. I believe there is a force of energy that is so great it can create things from nothing, including the human life form. I don't believe that energy wants me to murder, be jealous, or be petty. I believe that I was created in that energies imagine, because I too am energy and energy never dies. Energy does not know heaven, nor does it know hell. Energy is immune to such stupidity.

Long story short cubs won Trump won, what do you think?

God is good.

Your keyboard must have melted as you typed that.

LOL --- well, it did feel a little warm, but I figured that was coffee I spilled on it.

 

[Buck111]

Most people think of "god" as a being who resembles them, hangs out in a place called "heaven" and passes harsh judgements on us.
"He loves us", they say. "But, He is not going to love us if we don't obey him and do as he says. He will send us to hell if we disobey him and don't keep his commandments."

Now, that's all a bit confusing to me. How can he love us and then punish us in hell for all eternity if we don't obey his laws? Always heard that love is unconditional; why is gods love conditional?

For some reason I am suppose to bow to and worship some guy who has never physically revealed himself to me. I am suppose to do it on "faith" (whatever that is).

Now, don't get me wrong, I do believe there is a higher power - a force so strong it can create and destroy everything. And I believe that higher power to be intelligent. What I cannot believe any longer, after decades of doing so, is this higher power is jealous and petty and will put me in hell for also being jealous and petty. I don't believe this higher power will call for the murdering of people, yet put me in hell for murdering without his consent. If my purpose in being on this big blue marble is to aspire to be like him, then it is my responsibility to be jealous, petty and a murderer. If this truly is the way he is, then I don't want to be like him.

There are many, many different religions on this planet. Many are indigenous to particular regions or eras of the world. For instance: You have Judaics here, Muslims there, Buddhists over there and Christians all over the place. ALL of these religions began in different locales or in close proximity to each other at different times in history. Each became government sponsored according to what manner the government chose to use them. The United States was once considered a Christian country. So was much of Europe. Israel is considered to be a Jewish state. Thailand recognizes Buddhism as its traditional religion. Islam (the Muslim religion) is practiced throughout the middle east. There are way more than four religions - I am only using four as examples to save time and space.

Nearly all religions have three things in common: 1. They believe in a god. 2. Only their religions is right. 3. Fear.
Those are the three main things they all have in common. While some are non-violent, many will kill you or condemn you to hell for believing differently from them. Even sects within each religion will condemn or kill each other for not believing as they do, even though those sects claim to worship the same god (i.e. Catholics and Protestants; Secular and ultra-orthodox Jews).

I believe that #3, Fear, is the main motivator when it comes to peoples beliefs in their religions. People are terrified of the unknown. Death is an unknown. We don't know where we are going when we die, but we don't want to end. Death is permanent and scary as hell - unless you believe in hell, then you can avoid it. All you have to do is believe and do a few rituals, follow some commandments and, POOF, you will live forever in a wonderful mansion with or without (depending on your religion) 72 virgins.

No, I am not an atheist. Atheism is a religion as wicked as all of the rest. It is based in hatred and condemnation of those who are not atheists. Just like every other religion, atheism, seeks to dictate how others should think, believe and live. Many atheists would behead you, burn you at the stake, or hang you from a cross, just as quickly as any other religion has done in the past.

So, what religion am I? Just like being a Democrat, a Republican, a Libertarian, a Anarchist, a Voluntaryist...I am none. Or am of none. I do not subscribe to any religious dogma any more than I subscribe to any political dogma. I believe there is a force of energy that is so great it can create things from nothing, including the human life form. I don't believe that energy wants me to murder, be jealous, or be petty. I believe that I was created in that energies imagine, because I too am energy and energy never dies. Energy does not know heaven, nor does it know hell. Energy is immune to such stupidity.

Long story short cubs won Trump won, what do you think?

God is good.

It is funny that you ask the poster you were replying to if he had studied the bible and then say to me "God is good."
I have studied the bible and one of the things that has, for years, perplexed me is bible believers ignoring that "god" commands them to not call him "god". He says there are many gods. How can you believe in something you have no full knowledge of?

I think that, if you recall, God did not say that in the Bible .... Jesus did. He wanted to make it clear that he was not the Father.

But, i suspect you are intentionally trying to get mired in minutiae, thus avoiding a more meaningful discussion of the larger principles. I suppose your next argument is going to be that God wants all adulterers killed, right?

So be it. (Oh, by the way, God is good is a translation of the Muslim 'Allahu Akbar")

More than 6,000 times his name was written in the original texts. In the Old and the New Testaments. Men/translators changed his name. He even said not call him Baal (Lord) yet people do that more than they call him by the name he is said to have commanded them to call him. Do you know the name?

 

[Spare_change]

Most people think of "god" as a being who resembles them, hangs out in a place called "heaven" and passes harsh judgements on us.
"He loves us", they say. "But, He is not going to love us if we don't obey him and do as he says. He will send us to hell if we disobey him and don't keep his commandments."

Now, that's all a bit confusing to me. How can he love us and then punish us in hell for all eternity if we don't obey his laws? Always heard that love is unconditional; why is gods love conditional?

For some reason I am suppose to bow to and worship some guy who has never physically revealed himself to me. I am suppose to do it on "faith" (whatever that is).

Now, don't get me wrong, I do believe there is a higher power - a force so strong it can create and destroy everything. And I believe that higher power to be intelligent. What I cannot believe any longer, after decades of doing so, is this higher power is jealous and petty and will put me in hell for also being jealous and petty. I don't believe this higher power will call for the murdering of people, yet put me in hell for murdering without his consent. If my purpose in being on this big blue marble is to aspire to be like him, then it is my responsibility to be jealous, petty and a murderer. If this truly is the way he is, then I don't want to be like him.

There are many, many different religions on this planet. Many are indigenous to particular regions or eras of the world. For instance: You have Judaics here, Muslims there, Buddhists over there and Christians all over the place. ALL of these religions began in different locales or in close proximity to each other at different times in history. Each became government sponsored according to what manner the government chose to use them. The United States was once considered a Christian country. So was much of Europe. Israel is considered to be a Jewish state. Thailand recognizes Buddhism as its traditional religion. Islam (the Muslim religion) is practiced throughout the middle east. There are way more than four religions - I am only using four as examples to save time and space.

Nearly all religions have three things in common: 1. They believe in a god. 2. Only their religions is right. 3. Fear.
Those are the three main things they all have in common. While some are non-violent, many will kill you or condemn you to hell for believing differently from them. Even sects within each religion will condemn or kill each other for not believing as they do, even though those sects claim to worship the same god (i.e. Catholics and Protestants; Secular and ultra-orthodox Jews).

I believe that #3, Fear, is the main motivator when it comes to peoples beliefs in their religions. People are terrified of the unknown. Death is an unknown. We don't know where we are going when we die, but we don't want to end. Death is permanent and scary as hell - unless you believe in hell, then you can avoid it. All you have to do is believe and do a few rituals, follow some commandments and, POOF, you will live forever in a wonderful mansion with or without (depending on your religion) 72 virgins.

No, I am not an atheist. Atheism is a religion as wicked as all of the rest. It is based in hatred and condemnation of those who are not atheists. Just like every other religion, atheism, seeks to dictate how others should think, believe and live. Many atheists would behead you, burn you at the stake, or hang you from a cross, just as quickly as any other religion has done in the past.

So, what religion am I? Just like being a Democrat, a Republican, a Libertarian, a Anarchist, a Voluntaryist...I am none. Or am of none. I do not subscribe to any religious dogma any more than I subscribe to any political dogma. I believe there is a force of energy that is so great it can create things from nothing, including the human life form. I don't believe that energy wants me to murder, be jealous, or be petty. I believe that I was created in that energies imagine, because I too am energy and energy never dies. Energy does not know heaven, nor does it know hell. Energy is immune to such stupidity.

Long story short cubs won Trump won, what do you think?

God is good.

It is funny that you ask the poster you were replying to if he had studied the bible and then say to me "God is good."
I have studied the bible and one of the things that has, for years, perplexed me is bible believers ignoring that "god" commands them to not call him "god". He says there are many gods. How can you believe in something you have no full knowledge of?

I think that, if you recall, God did not say that in the Bible .... Jesus did. He wanted to make it clear that he was not the Father.

But, i suspect you are intentionally trying to get mired in minutiae, thus avoiding a more meaningful discussion of the larger principles. I suppose your next argument is going to be that God wants all adulterers killed, right?

So be it. (Oh, by the way, God is good is a translation of the Muslim 'Allahu Akbar")

More than 6,000 times his name was written in the original texts. In the Old and the New Testaments. Men/translators changed his name. He even said not call him Baal (Lord) yet people do that more than they call him by the name he is said to have commanded them to call him. Do you know the name?

You really like minutiae, don't you?

God revealed himself to Abraham, Yitzchak, and Yaakov as "God of Avraham", the "God of Avraham your father", and "Lord God of Avraham your father, and the God of Yitzchak.." (in Genesis)

He also told Abram: "I am El Shaddai.", which the early scribes translated to mean "I am the God Almighty".

Personally, I kinda favor this one:

Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.” (Exodus 3:13–15)

I AM WHO I AM. Makes perfect sense to me.

Did I pass your little test?

 

[Lewdog]

Most people think of "god" as a being who resembles them, hangs out in a place called "heaven" and passes harsh judgements on us.
"He loves us", they say. "But, He is not going to love us if we don't obey him and do as he says. He will send us to hell if we disobey him and don't keep his commandments."

Now, that's all a bit confusing to me. How can he love us and then punish us in hell for all eternity if we don't obey his laws? Always heard that love is unconditional; why is gods love conditional?

For some reason I am suppose to bow to and worship some guy who has never physically revealed himself to me. I am suppose to do it on "faith" (whatever that is).

Now, don't get me wrong, I do believe there is a higher power - a force so strong it can create and destroy everything. And I believe that higher power to be intelligent. What I cannot believe any longer, after decades of doing so, is this higher power is jealous and petty and will put me in hell for also being jealous and petty. I don't believe this higher power will call for the murdering of people, yet put me in hell for murdering without his consent. If my purpose in being on this big blue marble is to aspire to be like him, then it is my responsibility to be jealous, petty and a murderer. If this truly is the way he is, then I don't want to be like him.

There are many, many different religions on this planet. Many are indigenous to particular regions or eras of the world. For instance: You have Judaics here, Muslims there, Buddhists over there and Christians all over the place. ALL of these religions began in different locales or in close proximity to each other at different times in history. Each became government sponsored according to what manner the government chose to use them. The United States was once considered a Christian country. So was much of Europe. Israel is considered to be a Jewish state. Thailand recognizes Buddhism as its traditional religion. Islam (the Muslim religion) is practiced throughout the middle east. There are way more than four religions - I am only using four as examples to save time and space.

Nearly all religions have three things in common: 1. They believe in a god. 2. Only their religions is right. 3. Fear.
Those are the three main things they all have in common. While some are non-violent, many will kill you or condemn you to hell for believing differently from them. Even sects within each religion will condemn or kill each other for not believing as they do, even though those sects claim to worship the same god (i.e. Catholics and Protestants; Secular and ultra-orthodox Jews).

I believe that #3, Fear, is the main motivator when it comes to peoples beliefs in their religions. People are terrified of the unknown. Death is an unknown. We don't know where we are going when we die, but we don't want to end. Death is permanent and scary as hell - unless you believe in hell, then you can avoid it. All you have to do is believe and do a few rituals, follow some commandments and, POOF, you will live forever in a wonderful mansion with or without (depending on your religion) 72 virgins.

No, I am not an atheist. Atheism is a religion as wicked as all of the rest. It is based in hatred and condemnation of those who are not atheists. Just like every other religion, atheism, seeks to dictate how others should think, believe and live. Many atheists would behead you, burn you at the stake, or hang you from a cross, just as quickly as any other religion has done in the past.

So, what religion am I? Just like being a Democrat, a Republican, a Libertarian, a Anarchist, a Voluntaryist...I am none. Or am of none. I do not subscribe to any religious dogma any more than I subscribe to any political dogma. I believe there is a force of energy that is so great it can create things from nothing, including the human life form. I don't believe that energy wants me to murder, be jealous, or be petty. I believe that I was created in that energies imagine, because I too am energy and energy never dies. Energy does not know heaven, nor does it know hell. Energy is immune to such stupidity.

Long story short cubs won Trump won, what do you think?

God is good.

It is funny that you ask the poster you were replying to if he had studied the bible and then say to me "God is good."
I have studied the bible and one of the things that has, for years, perplexed me is bible believers ignoring that "god" commands them to not call him "god". He says there are many gods. How can you believe in something you have no full knowledge of?

I think that, if you recall, God did not say that in the Bible .... Jesus did. He wanted to make it clear that he was not the Father.

But, i suspect you are intentionally trying to get mired in minutiae, thus avoiding a more meaningful discussion of the larger principles. I suppose your next argument is going to be that God wants all adulterers killed, right?

So be it. (Oh, by the way, God is good is a translation of the Muslim 'Allahu Akbar")

More than 6,000 times his name was written in the original texts. In the Old and the New Testaments. Men/translators changed his name. He even said not call him Baal (Lord) yet people do that more than they call him by the name he is said to have commanded them to call him. Do you know the name?

Yahweh?

 

[Buck111]

Long story short cubs won Trump won, what do you think?

God is good.

It is funny that you ask the poster you were replying to if he had studied the bible and then say to me "God is good."
I have studied the bible and one of the things that has, for years, perplexed me is bible believers ignoring that "god" commands them to not call him "god". He says there are many gods. How can you believe in something you have no full knowledge of?

I think that, if you recall, God did not say that in the Bible .... Jesus did. He wanted to make it clear that he was not the Father.

But, i suspect you are intentionally trying to get mired in minutiae, thus avoiding a more meaningful discussion of the larger principles. I suppose your next argument is going to be that God wants all adulterers killed, right?

So be it. (Oh, by the way, God is good is a translation of the Muslim 'Allahu Akbar")

More than 6,000 times his name was written in the original texts. In the Old and the New Testaments. Men/translators changed his name. He even said not call him Baal (Lord) yet people do that more than they call him by the name he is said to have commanded them to call him. Do you know the name?

You really like minutiae, don't you?

God revealed himself to Abraham, Yitzchak, and Yaakov as "God of Avraham", the "God of Avraham your father", and "Lord God of Avraham your father, and the God of Yitzchak.." (in Genesis)

He also told Abram: "I am El Shaddai.", which the early scribes translated to mean "I am the God Almighty".

Personally, I kinda favor this one:

Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.” (Exodus 3:13–15)

I AM WHO I AM. Makes perfect sense to me.

Did I pass your little test?

No. You didn't.

Exodus 3:15 (KJV) And Elohim said moreover to Moses, Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel, Yahweh Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Abraham, the Elohim of Isaac, and the Elohim of Jacob, hath sent me to you: this [is] my name for ever, and this [is] my memorial to all generations.

Amos 5:27 (KJV) Therefore I will cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith Yahweh, whose name [is] The Elohim of hosts.

Malachi 2:2 (KJV) If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay [it] to heart, to give glory to my name, saith Yahweh of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay [it] to heart.

 

[Spare_change]

Long story short cubs won Trump won, what do you think?

God is good.

It is funny that you ask the poster you were replying to if he had studied the bible and then say to me "God is good."
I have studied the bible and one of the things that has, for years, perplexed me is bible believers ignoring that "god" commands them to not call him "god". He says there are many gods. How can you believe in something you have no full knowledge of?

I think that, if you recall, God did not say that in the Bible .... Jesus did. He wanted to make it clear that he was not the Father.

But, i suspect you are intentionally trying to get mired in minutiae, thus avoiding a more meaningful discussion of the larger principles. I suppose your next argument is going to be that God wants all adulterers killed, right?

So be it. (Oh, by the way, God is good is a translation of the Muslim 'Allahu Akbar")

More than 6,000 times his name was written in the original texts. In the Old and the New Testaments. Men/translators changed his name. He even said not call him Baal (Lord) yet people do that more than they call him by the name he is said to have commanded them to call him. Do you know the name?

Yahweh?

That was the Jewish name for Him ... it led to the Jehovah name ... frankly, it's one of about 80 gazillion things He has been called.

 

[Spare_change]

God is good.

It is funny that you ask the poster you were replying to if he had studied the bible and then say to me "God is good."
I have studied the bible and one of the things that has, for years, perplexed me is bible believers ignoring that "god" commands them to not call him "god". He says there are many gods. How can you believe in something you have no full knowledge of?

I think that, if you recall, God did not say that in the Bible .... Jesus did. He wanted to make it clear that he was not the Father.

But, i suspect you are intentionally trying to get mired in minutiae, thus avoiding a more meaningful discussion of the larger principles. I suppose your next argument is going to be that God wants all adulterers killed, right?

So be it. (Oh, by the way, God is good is a translation of the Muslim 'Allahu Akbar")

More than 6,000 times his name was written in the original texts. In the Old and the New Testaments. Men/translators changed his name. He even said not call him Baal (Lord) yet people do that more than they call him by the name he is said to have commanded them to call him. Do you know the name?

You really like minutiae, don't you?

God revealed himself to Abraham, Yitzchak, and Yaakov as "God of Avraham", the "God of Avraham your father", and "Lord God of Avraham your father, and the God of Yitzchak.." (in Genesis)

He also told Abram: "I am El Shaddai.", which the early scribes translated to mean "I am the God Almighty".

Personally, I kinda favor this one:

Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.” (Exodus 3:13–15)

I AM WHO I AM. Makes perfect sense to me.

Did I pass your little test?

No. You didn't.

Exodus 3:15 (KJV) And Elohim said moreover to Moses, Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel, Yahweh Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Abraham, the Elohim of Isaac, and the Elohim of Jacob, hath sent me to you: this [is] my name for ever, and this [is] my memorial to all generations.

Amos 5:27 (KJV) Therefore I will cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith Yahweh, whose name [is] The Elohim of hosts.

Malachi 2:2 (KJV) If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay [it] to heart, to give glory to my name, saith Yahweh of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay [it] to heart.

Google is a wonderful tool, isn't it?

You can call him what you wish --- given that Yahweh went out of fashion in the 6th century BC, it's a nice trivia question, but of no value whatsoever.

I kinda prefer what I call him .... My friend, Lord, God and Savior.

Although, I AM WHO I AM does have a certain kind of ring to it, don't you think??

 

[Buck111]

Obviously you have very little, if any, knowledge in the philosophies. Theology is a part of philosophy. So you don't study "...first in Philosophy, then in Religion." BTW, neither of those should have been capitalized.

You do not know my credentials, sir.

Obviously you are dumb as a post.

Reading philosophy does not make you a philosopher.
Quoting philosophers does not make you a philosopher.
Insulting people does not make you a philosopher.

 

[Spare_change]

Obviously you have very little, if any, knowledge in the philosophies. Theology is a part of philosophy. So you don't study "...first in Philosophy, then in Religion." BTW, neither of those should have been capitalized.

You do not know my credentials, sir.

Obviously you are dumb as a post.

Reading philosophy does not make you a philosopher.
Quoting philosophers does not make you a philosopher.
Insulting people does not make you a philosopher.

Do you consider yourself a philosopher?