Is The Cost of College Worth Debt?

[Skull Pilot]

a. Where's an 18 year-old going to get $100K to invest?

b. An 8% return? In what dream world?

Where does an 18 year old get 100K to pay for college?

And over a lifetime if you can't get 8%, you're a moron.

OK, let's assume you're right and an 8% return over a lifetime is possible.

Your premise is still ridiculous. Assuming an 18 year old can scrape together $100K or that his parents give it to him to invest does not address the issue of condemning him to working some low paying, insecure job for 45 years so he has a nest egg at age 65.

Doesn't sound like much of a life to me.

You assume a lot don't you?

What if he started a business and made a fairly comfortable wage and still had a nest egg at 65.

Why do you assume a person without a college degree must work a low paying insecure job? I know a lot of people with college degrees that have insecure jobs but my plumber with no degree who has his own business is still working and making more than the college grad.

 

[psikeyhackr]

One can obtain a degree without going into debt.

It might take a little longer but it can be done.

The idea that a bunch of 18-22 year olds have to go to school full time on mommy and daddy's dime is pure bullshit.

When you're 18 get out of Mommy's house, get a fucking job and take one or two night courses all year round. You'll have a BS in 5 years.

Or get the fuck out of Mommy's house, get a fucking job, get training in a specific skill then continue your education.

Or you can go to the fucking free library study all the basic required course material for the first couple years of any degree program and then take the CLEPs. That way you're only paying tuition for the last two years of study.

Why not provide worthwhile courses in high school and tell EVERYBODY which books are actually worth a damn and eliminate all of the time wasting garbage. Take half a dozen computer courses and they never do a competent job of explaining how a von Neumann machine works. What they call education is often just another scam.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dg96tefnEU]YouTube - ‪SF & von Neumann machine basics‬‎[/ame]

psik

 

[topspin]

Skull many more businesses fail than succeed.
Again no kids have 60k to invest instead of going to school.
Kudo's on your success Bill Gates did it without college that is not the point.
On average those with a degree make 2.5MM more than those without.
I got an MBA that prob didn't help in my financail analyst job much, it help alot in making me an above average investor though.
There is a reason why college goes up so much each year, demand for higher paying jobs. PERIOD

 

[Mr Natural]

Where does an 18 year old get 100K to pay for college?

And over a lifetime if you can't get 8%, you're a moron.

OK, let's assume you're right and an 8% return over a lifetime is possible.

Your premise is still ridiculous. Assuming an 18 year old can scrape together $100K or that his parents give it to him to invest does not address the issue of condemning him to working some low paying, insecure job for 45 years so he has a nest egg at age 65.

Doesn't sound like much of a life to me.

You assume a lot don't you?

What if he started a business and made a fairly comfortable wage and still had a nest egg at 65.

Why do you assume a person without a college degree must work a low paying insecure job? I know a lot of people with college degrees that have insecure jobs but my plumber with no degree who has his own business is still working and making more than the college grad.

There are always exceptions.

A kid, for example, with strong entreprenaurial talents doesn't need any schooling at all.

Nor does an exceptional athlete.

Or a entertainer.

But by and large, the vast majority of people with college degrees do far better over a lifetime than those without.

And yes, I mentioned plumbing as a career earlier in this thread.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Skull many more businesses fail than succeed.
Again no kids have 60k to invest instead of going to school.
Kudo's on your success Bill Gates did it without college that is not the point.
On average those with a degree make 2.5MM more than those without.
I got an MBA that prob didn't help in my financail analyst job much, it help alot in making me an above average investor though.
There is a reason why college goes up so much each year, demand for higher paying jobs. PERIOD

They get the money for school though don't they? That same money could be better put to use than getting a degree.

You don't have to have a degree to be educated and earn a good living. I know several people who educated themselves and are doing better than anyone I know. One of my best friends didn't go to college. When I was studying and working 3 jobs to pay for school, he was working 3 jobs just like me but when he was 22 he owned 3 rental properties and I owed a ton of money.

At 35 he was worth over 2 million. At 45 he's comfortably retired.

 

[topspin]

Nobody said it's necessary, don't be so sensitve. Like Mr Clean correctly say's on average those with a degree earn way more than those without. That's why it cost so much, demand for high paying jobs.
Look at any list of top ten salaried jobs, they are all 4 yr degree'd jobs.

 

[Skull Pilot]

OK, let's assume you're right and an 8% return over a lifetime is possible.

Your premise is still ridiculous. Assuming an 18 year old can scrape together $100K or that his parents give it to him to invest does not address the issue of condemning him to working some low paying, insecure job for 45 years so he has a nest egg at age 65.

Doesn't sound like much of a life to me.

You assume a lot don't you?

What if he started a business and made a fairly comfortable wage and still had a nest egg at 65.

Why do you assume a person without a college degree must work a low paying insecure job? I know a lot of people with college degrees that have insecure jobs but my plumber with no degree who has his own business is still working and making more than the college grad.

There are always exceptions.

A kid, for example, with strong entreprenaurial talents doesn't need any schooling at all.

Nor does an exceptional athlete.

Or a entertainer.

But by and large, the vast majority of people with college degrees do far better over a lifetime than those without.

And yes, I mentioned plumbing as a career earlier in this thread.

Very few people can be pro athletes. the same restrictions do not apply to the business world. Anyone can work for themselves and be successful. The problem is that people like you tell them that they can't.

 

[topspin]

Look up failed businesses, way more fail than succeed. Do you have kids? Would you tell them college is a waiste? Income is not the only benefit of college.

 

[Mr Natural]

You assume a lot don't you?

What if he started a business and made a fairly comfortable wage and still had a nest egg at 65.

Why do you assume a person without a college degree must work a low paying insecure job? I know a lot of people with college degrees that have insecure jobs but my plumber with no degree who has his own business is still working and making more than the college grad.

There are always exceptions.

A kid, for example, with strong entreprenaurial talents doesn't need any schooling at all.

Nor does an exceptional athlete.

Or a entertainer.

But by and large, the vast majority of people with college degrees do far better over a lifetime than those without.

And yes, I mentioned plumbing as a career earlier in this thread.

Very few people can be pro athletes. the same restrictions do not apply to the business world. Anyone can work for themselves and be successful. The problem is that people like you tell them that they can't.

If it were that easy, we'd all be in business for ourselves making tons of money doing something we love.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Nobody said it's necessary, don't be so sensitve. Like Mr Clean correctly say's on average those with a degree earn way more than those without. That's why it cost so much, demand for high paying jobs.
Look at any list of top ten salaried jobs, they are all 4 yr degree'd jobs.

What's the sensitive comment?

just because I disagree with you, I am somehow upset?

Believe me, I'm not. I have an entirely different point of view than you that's all.

The difference is that you think you have to work for someone else, to get a job. I don't think like that. And I think that we should be teaching our kids to think more like me than like you.

 

[Skull Pilot]

There are always exceptions.

A kid, for example, with strong entreprenaurial talents doesn't need any schooling at all.

Nor does an exceptional athlete.

Or a entertainer.

But by and large, the vast majority of people with college degrees do far better over a lifetime than those without.

And yes, I mentioned plumbing as a career earlier in this thread.

Very few people can be pro athletes. the same restrictions do not apply to the business world. Anyone can work for themselves and be successful. The problem is that people like you tell them that they can't.

If it were that easy, we'd all be in business for ourselves making tons of money doing something we love.

So why aren't you? The only person holding you back is you.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Look up failed businesses, way more fail than succeed. Do you have kids? Would you tell them college is a waiste? Income is not the only benefit of college.

Really, because income is the only benefit this thread is discussing.

 

[topspin]

Well your successfull and biased. Look up the facts that's what Mr Clean and me are talking about.
It's harder to do what you've done, though some might argue your degree's made you smart enough to do it.
I've never seen any article saying anywhere near 50% of businesses succeeding.

 

[Mr Natural]

Very few people can be pro athletes. the same restrictions do not apply to the business world. Anyone can work for themselves and be successful. The problem is that people like you tell them that they can't.

If it were that easy, we'd all be in business for ourselves making tons of money doing something we love.

So why aren't you? The only person holding you back is you.

My working days are behind me, but that's beside the point. I had a moderately successful career that allowed me to retire at 50. But my job was never really anything more than a paycheck.

If I had to do it over again, I would have gone the plumbing route like a I said earlier.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Well your successfull and biased. Look up the facts that's what Mr Clean and me are talking about.
It's harder to do what you've done, though some might argue your degree's made you smart enough to do it.
I've never seen any article saying anywhere near 50% of businesses succeeding.

Define success.

Is it sitting in traffic for hours a day with the rest of the sheep or is it controlling your own life?

I know the facts. I've been working for myself since i was 19. In fact my first business put me through school. I used one year's tuition to set it up and I used it as a tool to get an education because i was conditioned to think i needed a degree to be successful when in fact I was making more money at my business cleaning houses and office buildings than i did in my first engineering job.

I sold that business when I graduated but I was determined to work for myself after a few years of being told what to do by some idiot who didn't know his ass from his elbow.

I never quit trying and i had a few ventures that didn't work out. You see that as a negative. I don't.

 

[topspin]

congrats on that, I just hit the fifty myself and am dying to leave.

 

[topspin]

skull again congrats, none of that changes any facts. Most business fail.
I never sat in traffic, and doing accounting to me is much better than cleaning anything or working hard. I hit a million before 50, the average millionaire owns his own businees and it takes him till 59 to get there.

 

[Skull Pilot]

skull again congrats, none of that changes any facts. Most business fail.
I never sat in traffic, and doing accounting to me is much better than cleaning anything or working hard. I hit a million before 50, the average millionaire owns his own businees and it takes him till 59 to get there.

I had 4 crews doing the cleaning. After my first year I did very little of that. The whole point of owning a business is to employ people and multiply your income streams.

And you were taught to believe that a failed business is a bad thing. Tell me how many people who work for themselves had other businesses that failed. And how many of those that failed quit after the first try.

You'll find that those who didn't quit made it but the stats reflect those that tried only once and failed never to venture again.

I could use your logic and say that most people are turned down for jobs than get them.

How many interviews did you go on to get a job, just one? 5? 10? Then most interviews are failures are they not?

 

[topspin]

most people drop out of college too.
I bet if you look up average income for self employed it's lower than average bachelors degree. One off examples are a dime a dozen.

 

[Skull Pilot]

most people drop out of college too.
I bet if you look up average income for self employed it's lower than average bachelors degree. One off examples are a dime a dozen.

A BS is just that. bullshit

Tell me then why was i making more from my cleaning business than I did my first year as an electrical engineer? I'll tell you why. Because I was multiplying my effort by hiring cleaning crews.

“I would rather earn 1% off a 100 people's efforts than 100% of my own efforts.”
-John D Rockefeller

This is what we should be teaching.