Zone1 is the Catholic Church a Cult?

is it a cult?

  • Total voters
    9
forkintheroad7 said:
I never SEE much of anything in your posts except

I hate Catholicism

Catholicism is wrong

A religion that came 1800 years later is better

No thanks
Click to expand...
I don’t hate Catholics. Catholicism is simply the counterfeit church. Teaches good teachings for life and community. Like every other church, it lacks authority and power to effect exaltation in the highest degree of heaven.
 
skews13 said:
The church was born of the Holy Catholic Roman Empire. It was created when Constantine made Christianity legal as the last attempt at saving the empire. Because at that time it was illegal for the average peasnt to even know how to read any of the original transcripts, much less interpret them. An offense punishable by death. Which is how the church began it's conquest of stolen property, and fealty to kings and queens for allowing it to exist as enforcers and prpotection of their feifdoms.

The church does not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, as it never accepted Martin Luthers indulgences of ninety five thesis, and thus the New Testiment.

Luther was ordained to the priesthood in 1507. He came to reject several teachings and practices of the Roman Catholic Church; in particular, he disputed the view on indulgences. Luther attempted to resolve these differences amicably, first proposing an academic discussion of the practice and efficacy of indulgences in Ninety-five Theses, which he authored in 1517. In 1520, Pope Leo X demanded that Luther renounce all of his writings, and when Luther refused to do so, excommunicated him in January 1521. Later that year, Holy Roman Emperor Charles V condemned Luther as an outlaw at the Diet of Worms. When Luther died in 1546, Pope Leo X's excommunication was still in effect.

The Catholic Church practices Roman Law, not Christianity.
Click to expand...
As a non-Christian, the differences I see between Christian sects are trivial. Christianity is founded on Jesus, a cult leader whose successful cult became a church. There have been other successful Christian cult leaders that came later, e.g., Martin Luther and Joseph Smith.
 
Cougarbear said:
Not true. There was no centralized Church in Rome until Constantine created it.
Click to expand...
Whether you believe in the Catholic Church or not is one thing - and that's your opinion. But to say that there "was no centralized Church in Rome until Constantine created it" is unequivocally false. And every credible historian will tell you likewise.

Timeline of Christianity/The Catholic Church:

Early Christianity​

Main article: History of early Christianity
Dates in the Apostolic Age are mostly approximate, and all AD, mostly based on tradition or the New Testament.

313–476​


  • 313: The Edict of Milan declares the Roman Empire neutral towards religious views, in effect ending the persecution of Christians.[13]
  • 318: Arius condemned and excommunicated by a council convened by Alexander, bishop of Alexandria.[14]
  • 321: Granting the church the right to hold property, Constantine donates the palace of the Laterani to Pope Miltiades. The Lateran Basilica (Basilica of Our Savior) becomes the episcopal seat of the Bishop of Rome.
  • November 3, 324: Constantine lays the foundations of the new capital of the Roman Empire in Byzantium, later to be known as Constantinople.
  • 323 Pope Sylvester I in his calendar lists Sunday (rather than the Jewish Saturday) as the first day of the week, names it "the Lord's day", and commands church members to keep it as a holy day.[15]
  • 325: The Arian controversy erupts in Alexandria, causing widespread violence and disruptions among Christians.
  • 325: The First Ecumenical Council of Nicaea, convened as a response to the Arian controversy, establishes the Nicene Creed, declaring the belief of orthodox Trinitarian Christians in the Trinity.[16]
  • November 18, 326: Pope Sylvester I consecrates the Basilica of St. Peter built by Constantine the Great over the tomb of the Apostle.
  • 336: Date of the first recorded celebration of Christmas in Rome.[17]
  • 345: Pope Julius I officially sets the date of December 25 for the celebration of the Nativity or Christmas.
  • 360: Julian the Apostate becomes the last non-Christian Roman Emperor.
  • February, 380: Emperor Theodosius I issues an edict, De Fide Catolica, in Thessalonica, published in Constantinople, declaring Catholic Christianity as the state religion of the Roman Empire.[18]

Timeline of the Catholic Church - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
alang1216 said:
As a non-Christian, the differences I see between Christian sects are trivial. Christianity is founded on Jesus, a cult leader whose successful cult became a church. There have been other successful Christian cult leaders that came later, e.g., Martin Luther and Joseph Smith.
Click to expand...
The difference between a hut and a mansion can also be described as trivial. They are both shelters. Still, it's an interesting thought. What difference between Christian sects do you see as trivial?
 
Meriweather said:
The difference between a hut and a mansion can also be described as trivial. They are both shelters. Still, it's an interesting thought. What difference between Christian sects do you see as trivial?
Click to expand...
As a non-Christian, almost all differences I see are trivial. Do you do good works to get to heaven or are you elected to heaven so you do good works? Who has the right answers, Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, Mormons, etc.? Can they all be wrong except for one, or are they all correct in their way?
 
alang1216 said:
As a non-Christian, almost all differences I see are trivial. Do you do good works to get to heaven or are you elected to heaven so you do good works? Who has the right answers, Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, Mormons, etc.? Can they all be wrong except for one, or are they all correct in their way?
Click to expand...
Good works have nothing to do with heaven. Those of the Jewish faith have the most correct insights on this, closely followed by Catholics/Orthodox as they have remained most closely rooted in Judaism. The question is not, "What does heaven need?" The question is, "What is needed on earth?" Are good works needed? Yes. Jesus taught kingdom living on earth, a way of living that extends into the next life, eternal life. Are good works needed in kingdom living? Yes, they are.

If something good needs to be done, and you are available, then do that thing.

Somewhere along the line, Martin Luther got it into his head that if people were doing something good, then it was only because they were trying to work their way to heaven. NEWS FLASH! People do good works to make life good here on Earth. Heaven doesn't need good works. I have no idea why Luther and his followers couldn't see that.

As far as who is right and who is wrong: The group that is the most right is a millimeter ahead of the group that is most wrong. (We probably agree that the great unknown is which group is the most right and which is the most wrong. ;) )
 
Ace Nova said:
Whether you believe in the Catholic Church or not is one thing - and that's your opinion. But to say that there "was no centralized Church in Rome until Constantine created it" is unequivocally false. And every credible historian will tell you likewise.

Timeline of Christianity/The Catholic Church:

Early Christianity​

Main article: History of early Christianity
Dates in the Apostolic Age are mostly approximate, and all AD, mostly based on tradition or the New Testament.

313–476​


  • 313: The Edict of Milan declares the Roman Empire neutral towards religious views, in effect ending the persecution of Christians.[13]
  • 318: Arius condemned and excommunicated by a council convened by Alexander, bishop of Alexandria.[14]
  • 321: Granting the church the right to hold property, Constantine donates the palace of the Laterani to Pope Miltiades. The Lateran Basilica (Basilica of Our Savior) becomes the episcopal seat of the Bishop of Rome.
  • November 3, 324: Constantine lays the foundations of the new capital of the Roman Empire in Byzantium, later to be known as Constantinople.
  • 323 Pope Sylvester I in his calendar lists Sunday (rather than the Jewish Saturday) as the first day of the week, names it "the Lord's day", and commands church members to keep it as a holy day.[15]
  • 325: The Arian controversy erupts in Alexandria, causing widespread violence and disruptions among Christians.
  • 325: The First Ecumenical Council of Nicaea, convened as a response to the Arian controversy, establishes the Nicene Creed, declaring the belief of orthodox Trinitarian Christians in the Trinity.[16]
  • November 18, 326: Pope Sylvester I consecrates the Basilica of St. Peter built by Constantine the Great over the tomb of the Apostle.
  • 336: Date of the first recorded celebration of Christmas in Rome.[17]
  • 345: Pope Julius I officially sets the date of December 25 for the celebration of the Nativity or Christmas.
  • 360: Julian the Apostate becomes the last non-Christian Roman Emperor.
  • February, 380: Emperor Theodosius I issues an edict, De Fide Catolica, in Thessalonica, published in Constantinople, declaring Catholic Christianity as the state religion of the Roman Empire.[18]

Timeline of the Catholic Church - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...
Nice Google search. We can forget all the stuff before the death of John because Apostles were still preaching and teaching. But, after Paul and his ministers died, no more Apostles were called meaning God was closing the door because the bishops were not following Paul’s leadership. They were aggressively bringing in false doctrine and changing the Gospel of Christ and the ordinances. Including not believing in the afterlife.
 
Meriweather said:
Good works have nothing to do with heaven. Those of the Jewish faith have the most correct insights on this, closely followed by Catholics/Orthodox as they have remained most closely rooted in Judaism. The question is not, "What does heaven need?" The question is, "What is needed on earth?" Are good works needed? Yes. Jesus taught kingdom living on earth, a way of living that extends into the next life, eternal life. Are good works needed in kingdom living? Yes, they are.

If something good needs to be done, and you are available, then do that thing.

Somewhere along the line, Martin Luther got it into his head that if people were doing something good, then it was only because they were trying to work their way to heaven. NEWS FLASH! People do good works to make life good here on Earth. Heaven doesn't need good works. I have no idea why Luther and his followers couldn't see that.

As far as who is right and who is wrong: The group that is the most right is a millimeter ahead of the group that is most wrong. (We probably agree that the great unknown is which group is the most right and which is the most wrong. ;) )
Click to expand...
When I was 12, I figured God would not have a world with one correct religion and hundreds of wrong ones. Given that, it made the most sense to me that none of the worlds religions were correct and likely none were any better than any other.
 
Cougarbear said:
Nice Google search. We can forget all the stuff before the death of John because Apostles were still preaching and teaching. But, after Paul and his ministers died, no more Apostles were called meaning God was closing the door because the bishops were not following Paul’s leadership. They were aggressively bringing in false doctrine and changing the Gospel of Christ and the ordinances. Including not believing in the afterlife.
Click to expand...

The Apostles were the original 12. When Judas Iscariot perished, Paul replaced him. But there were always 12 Apostles. Other followers are known as Disciples and later on given titles such as "Bishops" etc. As far as issues with doctrine, etc - those issues existed even between Peter and Paul. And there were minor issues during that time period but they were addressed and corrected - by the central Church known as the Catholic Church.

All due respect, no other versions of Christianity existed - other than the Catholic Church - until Martin Luther broke away. It's really that simple.

Now if you want to believe that another version of Christianity follows Jesus' teachings in a way that better suits your spirituality, that's up to you. But to say that the Catholic Church isn't or wasn't Christian is absolutely false. No other versions of Christianity would exist today had they not spun off from the Catholic Church.
 
alang1216 said:
When I was 12, I figured God would not have a world with one correct religion and hundreds of wrong ones. Given that, it made the most sense to me that none of the worlds religions were correct and likely none were any better than any other.
Click to expand...
Of course one is better than any other! Try practicing all religions at once and see where that gets you. Which religion/form of worship will draw you closest to God? That's the one that is better.
 
Meriweather said:
Of course one is better than any other! Try practicing all religions at once and see where that gets you. Which religion/form of worship will draw you closest to God? That's the one that is better.
Click to expand...
It is too easy to deceive ourselves so why chance joining the wrong one?
 
alang1216 said:
It is too easy to deceive ourselves so why chance joining the wrong one?
Click to expand...
Napoleon Hill says it best:

The man of decision cannot be stopped. The man of indecision cannot be started. Make your choice.
 
Ace Nova said:
The Apostles were the original 12. When Judas Iscariot perished, Paul replaced him. But there were always 12 Apostles. Other followers are known as Disciples and later on given titles such as "Bishops" etc. As far as issues with doctrine, etc - those issues existed even between Peter and Paul. And there were minor issues during that time period but they were addressed and corrected - by the central Church known as the Catholic Church.

All due respect, no other versions of Christianity existed - other than the Catholic Church - until Martin Luther broke away. It's really that simple.

Now if you want to believe that another version of Christianity follows Jesus' teachings in a way that better suits your spirituality, that's up to you. But to say that the Catholic Church isn't or wasn't Christian is absolutely false. No other versions of Christianity would exist today had they not spun off from the Catholic Church.
Click to expand...
Apostles are Prophets or messengers from God to man. Once they were gone, bishops had no Apostolic authority as prophets. All they could do is take the written words they had at the time and interpret them to preach what they had as the gospel of Christ. When the heavens are closed, there is no more the Priesthood order after the Son of God. The only thing that could happen at that point is the apostasy, the falling away Paul prophesied. And, we can see in history during the dark ages what happens when the heavens are closed with truly evil things of man's inhumanity to man with the tortures and mass killings all over the world including in the Americas with the conquistadors. The eventual construct of the official Catholic Church, the church began to control countries and brutally forced conversion of non-Christians. A horribly brutal church of which is nothing Christ ever taught.
As far as other variations of Christians, the Gnostics continued from the death of Christ to the present. I'm sure there are others as well.
 
15th post
Cougarbear said:
Apostles are Prophets or messengers from God to man. Once they were gone, bishops had no Apostolic authority as prophets. All they could do is take the written words they had at the time and interpret them to preach what they had as the gospel of Christ. When the heavens are closed, there is no more the Priesthood order after the Son of God. The only thing that could happen at that point is the apostasy, the falling away Paul prophesied. And, we can see in history during the dark ages what happens when the heavens are closed with truly evil things of man's inhumanity to man with the tortures and mass killings all over the world including in the Americas with the conquistadors. The eventual construct of the official Catholic Church, the church began to control countries and brutally forced conversion of non-Christians. A horribly brutal church of which is nothing Christ ever taught.
As far as other variations of Christians, the Gnostics continued from the death of Christ to the present. I'm sure there are others as well.
Click to expand...

God gives mankind a blueprint, instruction - through Prophets, his son, revelations and so forth. In most cases - God will let us know (one way or another) what will happen if we follow his blueprint and what could happen if we do not follow his teachings. The issues within the Church began with the Apostles themselves. The betrayal of Judas - the denial of Peter - all while Jesus still walked the Earth. The myriad of teachings, healings and miracles Jesus performed were still not enough to show his closest brothers and sisters to follow his path.

But yet the Son - was firm in his faith - to the point that he would be willing to sacrifice his body for our sake - TO SHOW US THE WAY. Jesus could have avoided condemnation had he followed the ways of the world - but he did not - he chose, instead, to make the ultimate sacrifice so that the people he loved so dearly would understand that God is God, Faith is Faith - The only way to love God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your body is if you are willing to sacrifice your own life in order to show believers and non believers alike that with faith in God, all things are possible. To do what is right - to live a selfless life - healing the sick, curing the blind, bringing the dead back to life, teaching the ignorant and bringing the light of the world to those in darkness - that is the way of Jesus Christ - and he stayed firm, did not deviate - even with death at his doorstep. He did not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it.

And yet - Thomas - in his doubts still denied Christ after his passion and resurrection from the dead. What more is there to do?

The issues you or anyone else has with the Church are not about the Church, they are about the doubts and faults of mankind. The Church itself is simply an establishment - a rock that was founded on principles strong enough that the Son of God was willing to sacrifice his life for. The foundation - the cornerstone was laid with Christ and his ministry.

Peter and Paul - eternally grateful for their ministry - were still not strong enough or adamant enough in their faith not to deviate from their beliefs. Peter and Paul had major disagreements at times - Paul preached and spread a very progressive Gospel - one that could be easily misunderstood. Paul was full of spirit and firm in his faith - he would not deviate - Peter, was also firm in his faith but was willing to deviate from what he understood in order to maintain cohesiveness in their ministry. That is both a blessing and a fault of mankind. The fault comes from deviating from what you know to be true because of pressure from a more aggressive person. The blessing is the willingness of a person to take the "higher road" for the "greater good". Both can be and are acceptable to God. That's exactly why "The Church" is not perfect - it is not sinless - it has made many gross errors - because mankind is not perfect.

Despite all it's errors, sins, mistakes - the Catholic Church has done more for the advancement of mankind than any other organization in our known history and currently is by far the most charitable organization on Earth - quietly helping millions and millions of people on Earth that can't afford food, schooling, healthcare, medicine, etc on an annual basis - and doing it without financial profit nor any expectations of gratitude.
 
Last edited:
Ace Nova said:
God gives mankind a blueprint, instruction - through Prophets, his son, revelations and so forth. In most cases - God will let us know (one way or another) what will happen if we follow his blueprint and what could happen if we do not follow his teachings. The issues within the Church began with the Apostles themselves. The betrayal of Judas - the denial of Peter - all while Jesus still walked the Earth. The myriad of teachings, healings and miracles Jesus performed were still not enough to show his closest brothers and sisters to follow his path.

But yet the Son - was firm in his faith - to the point that he would be willing to sacrifice his body for our sake - TO SHOW US THE WAY. Jesus could have avoided condemnation had he followed the ways of the world - but he did not - he chose, instead, to make the ultimate sacrifice so that the people he loved so dearly would understand that God is God, Faith is Faith - The only way to love God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your body is if you are willing to sacrifice your own life in order to show believers and non believers alike that with faith in God, all things are possible. To do what is right - to live a selfless life - healing the sick, curing the blind, bringing the dead back to life, teaching the ignorant and bringing the light of the world to those in darkness - that is the way of Jesus Christ - and he stayed firm, did not deviate - even with death at his doorstep. He did not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it.

And yet - Thomas - in his doubts still denied Christ after his passion and resurrection from the dead. What more is there to do?

The issues you or anyone else has with the Church are not about the Church, they are about the doubts and faults of mankind. The Church itself is simply an establishment - a rock that was founded on principles strong enough that the Son of God was willing to sacrifice his life for. The foundation - the cornerstone was laid with Christ and his ministry.

Peter and Paul - eternally grateful for their ministry - were still not strong enough or adamant enough in their faith not to deviate from their beliefs. Peter and Paul had major disagreements at times - Paul preached and spread a very progressive Gospel - one that could be easily misunderstood. Paul was full of spirit and firm in his faith - he would not deviate - Peter, was also firm in his faith but was willing to deviate from what he understood in order to maintain cohesiveness in their ministry. That is both a blessing and a fault of mankind. The fault comes from deviating from what you know to be true because of pressure from a more aggressive person. The blessing is the willingness of a person to take the "higher road" for the "greater good". Both can be and are acceptable to God. That's exactly why "The Church" is not perfect - it is not sinless - it has made many gross errors - because mankind is not perfect.

Despite all it's errors, sins, mistakes - the Catholic Church has done more for the advancement of mankind than any other organization in our known history and currently is by far the most charitable organization on Earth - quietly helping millions and millions of people on Earth that can't afford food, schooling, healthcare, medicine, etc on an annual basis - and doing it without financial profit nor any expectations of gratitude.
Click to expand...
The main error made is the fact God only reveals his secrets (instructions) to his servants, the Prophets (Amos 3:7) No one else.
The reason for Christ was to atone for the sins who accept him and his sacrifice. He established his Church and taught his Gospel to his Apostles. Paul taught there would be a falling away or apostasy. No Prophets(apostles are prophets) no authority. That’s why you have all these strange orders of the Priesthood. Paul made clear there are only 2 orders, Melchizedek and Aaronic.
The RCC only changed their ways because of the Protestant revolt and people’s desire to choose what they want to believe. Especially not have countries with state religions that brutalized their subjects.
Today, they do have an excellent distribution system to the poor and the needy. Our Church works with them for their distribution welfare capabilities as they still own politicians in some poor countries. But, they have no Prophet to lead and bring back the authority of the Priesthood. We do.
 
Last edited:
alang1216 said:
As a non-Christian, the differences I see between Christian sects are trivial. Christianity is founded on Jesus, a cult leader whose successful cult became a church. There have been other successful Christian cult leaders that came later, e.g., Martin Luther and Joseph Smith.
Click to expand...
you can't compare Jesus to mere human sinners like Luther and Smith
 
Cougarbear said:
Catholicism is simply the counterfeit church.
Click to expand...
who are you to judge the oldest christian Church in the world, the one millions say is THE original Church?

Your so called church didn't come around until 1800 years AFTER the original one began.

Illogical, Captain

Did Jesus ditch everyone until the mighty Joseph Smith came on the scene?

so illogical
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

which direction does a priest face at the altar?

< Previous Thread

in your church, is the celebrant in front or behind the altar?

Next Thread >

Similar threads

Z
Zone1 Do you know the Old Catholic Church?
2
Replies
23
Views
289
Zebra
Z
DGS49
Zone1 The Roman Catholic Church in the U.S. Is Doomed (apparently)
Replies
15
Views
470
zaangalewa
zaangalewa
DennisPTate
  • Poll Poll
Zone1 Could President Trump be a fulfillment of Isaiah 45?
2
Replies
25
Views
406
DennisPTate
DennisPTate
DennisPTate
  • Poll Poll
Zone1 Are there truths that you would be willing to get kicked out of a church or synagogue for?
2 3
Replies
52
Views
749
BreezeWood
BreezeWood
DennisPTate
  • Poll Poll
Zone1 Transsubstantiation?
Replies
5
Views
187
DennisPTate
DennisPTate

New Topics

Latest Discussions

Back
Top Bottom