Is obama a socilist, or a fascist?

[Political Junky]

Also, if the Nazis were on the left, von Schleicher's strategy of chipping away the more moderate elements of the party and combining them with labor unions to freeze Hitler out seems like an odd strategy. Why would labor unions be opposed to the socialists?

Also, labor unions was one of the first things Hitler went after.

 

[Polk]

Also, if the Nazis were on the left, von Schleicher's strategy of chipping away the more moderate elements of the party and combining them with labor unions to freeze Hitler out seems like an odd strategy. Why would labor unions be opposed to the socialists?

It's not that the nazi were left, it's the left who took up the nazi's social agenda.

This is an even more absurd flip than the time you claiming being able to buy more goods per dollar meant a dollar is worth less.

 

[Polk]

Also, if the Nazis were on the left, von Schleicher's strategy of chipping away the more moderate elements of the party and combining them with labor unions to freeze Hitler out seems like an odd strategy. Why would labor unions be opposed to the socialists?

Also, labor unions was one of the first things Hitler went after.

Indeed.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Also, if the Nazis were on the left, von Schleicher's strategy of chipping away the more moderate elements of the party and combining them with labor unions to freeze Hitler out seems like an odd strategy. Why would labor unions be opposed to the socialists?

Also, labor unions was one of the first things Hitler went after.

When Hitler came to power, he moved to correct this hyperinflation while keeping his national socialist views front and center. In 1933, the Nazis disbanded the Weimar unions and replaced them with the new and improved union, the German Labor Front (Deutsche Arbeitsfront, DAF), which was comprised of 2 primary entities, the National Socialist Factory Organization and the National Socialist Trade and Industry Organization. The labor contracts that were Weimar contracts were now DAF-honored contracts. The Nazi’s funded the DAF’s coffers with the Weimar unions’ stockpile of wealth (the existing unions were part of that inflation problem). One of the new unions’ most popular programs was the Strength through Joy (Kraft durch Freude, KdF)) program, which developed the KdF-wagen, that later became the Volkswagen, or People’s Car.

 

[Polk]

So, he seized the financial assets of the left to create a puppet organization that was loyal to him. And this shows he was a leftist how?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Also, if the Nazis were on the left, von Schleicher's strategy of chipping away the more moderate elements of the party and combining them with labor unions to freeze Hitler out seems like an odd strategy. Why would labor unions be opposed to the socialists?

It's not that the nazi were left, it's the left who took up the nazi's social agenda.

This is an even more absurd flip than the time you claiming being able to buy more goods per dollar meant a dollar is worth less.

Combines extreme nationalism, racism and some socialist concepts.

Unification of Greater Germany (Austria + Germany)
Land + expansion
Anti-Versailles - abrogation of the Treaty.
Land and territory - lebensraum.
Only a "member of the race" can be a citizen.
Anti-semitism - No Jew can be a member of the race.
Anti-foreigner - only citizens can live in Germany.
No immigration - ref. to Jews fleeing pograms.
Everyone must work.
Abolition of unearned income - "no rent-slavery". the left
Nationalisation of industry the left
Divison of profits the left
Extension of old age welfare. the left
Land reform the left
Death to all criminals
German law, not Roman law (anti- French Rev.)
Education to teach "the German Way"
Education of gifted children
Protection of mother and child by outlawing child labour. the left
Encouraging gymnastics and swimming
Formation a national army.
Duty of the state to provide for its volk. the left
Duty of individuals to the state the left

Internet History Sourcebooks

 

[clevergirl]

The "uber" capitalists were happy with Hitler, as were numerous people opposed to the growing threat of Marxism, until they understood more about his regime. Hitler was a mad man Jake- He murdered people for the color of their skin or the ancestry of their birth. AGAIN, your point?

I refuse to believe Jake is as clueless as his posts. I still believe he plays devil's advocate here, but damn that must get really tedious after awhile.

Pure socialism takes complete control of the economy, generally through totalitarian means.

Facism, of which Hitler's Third Reich embraced, controlled the corporations by installing or controlling the CEO's/owners of those businesses. While the owners could still profit fro their businesses, they were required to use their property and production in the 'national interest' as dictated by the government authorities. Those who resisted were appropriated and run by the State. Pure socialism replaces the free market with a governent run economy. Facism gives the illusion of a free market capitalistic system but is setting and enforcing all prices and wages behind the scenes.

I don't recall which thread, but I responded to a "Hitler got rid of unions just like conservatives want to"...as if~

Here is a great link that shoots the implication that Hitler was anything other than a fascist megalomaniac Hitler Didn

And this too:

There are right wing fascism (Hitler) and left wing fascism (Stalin).

Fascism is simply totalitarianism – a severe police state. And that can operate under any economic system.

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." — Adolf Hitler, May 1, 1927

It might be an over-simplification, but to the absolute left is ultra-Socialism which can manifest itself as Fascism or Communism. To the absolute right is Anarchism. Complete government control over citizens and property vs. zero control over citizens and property.

 

[edthecynic]

That is exactly the point I've made on the Leftist rainbow.

They only vary in HOW they achieve the same results: Totalitarian control of a collective which they (the enforcing power) are exempt from.

It's a return to Feudalism with a screwy concept of succession and facade of democracy.

Exactly, CON$ervoFascism is a return to Feudalism with corporations as the feudal lords!!! Corporatism under the facade of Capitalism.

Leftist Rainbow for the thinking challenged.

Liberalism = Progressivism = Socialism = Marxism = Communism = Fascism

They are all with the same goal in mind. They vary only in how to reach that same goal.

Do you see Individual freedom in there at all? Do you see low government involvement? Do you see free entertprise or capitalism?

No. You don't. It's Neo-Feudalism. Replace the Noble class with "The Party" and then change the lines of succession. But in this Godless place, there will be no Clergy to help temper the out of control hubris and will of the Party over the peasantry. The only rich will be the Party faithful. Anyone who dares accumulate wealth and is not a Party member will be stripped of it and probably imprisoned or killed for it.

Right-wingnut black and white thinking challenged.

CON$ervatism = Fascism = Corporateism = Feudalism = Nazism

In CON$ervoFascism you can only be an "individual" if you CONFORM to CON$ervoFascism. All individuals who do not conform are grouped together as one enemy.

The leader of genius must have the ability to make different opponents appear as if they belonged to one category.
Adolf Hitler

May 12, 2008
RUSH: I maintain that moderates and independents are Democrats. Because, by definition, if someone or some organization is not conservative, it's by definition going to be liberal, not moderate, not independent, it's going to be liberal


CON$ervoFascist ChINOs, Christians In Name Only for political purposes only, like the Nazis they worship see religion as the means to control the masses.

For by employing religious force in the service of its political considerations, the crown aroused a spirit which at that outset it had not considered possible.
-Adolf Hitler

This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief. The great masses of a nation are not composed of philosophers. For the masses of the people, especially faith is absolutely the only basis of a moral outlook on life.
- Adolf Hitler

 

[JakeStarkey]

I refuse to believe Jake is as clueless as his posts. I still believe he plays devil's advocate here, but damn that must get really tedious after awhile.

Pure socialism takes complete control of the economy, generally through totalitarian means.

Facism, of which Hitler's Third Reich embraced, controlled the corporations by installing or controlling the CEO's/owners of those businesses. While the owners could still profit fro their businesses, they were required to use their property and production in the 'national interest' as dictated by the government authorities. Those who resisted were appropriated and run by the State. Pure socialism replaces the free market with a governent run economy. Facism gives the illusion of a free market capitalistic system but is setting and enforcing all prices and wages behind the scenes.

I don't recall which thread, but I responded to a "Hitler got rid of unions just like conservatives want to"...as if~

Here is a great link that shoots the implication that Hitler was anything other than a fascist megalomaniac Hitler Didn

And this too:

There are right wing fascism (Hitler) and left wing fascism (Stalin).

Fascism is simply totalitarianism – a severe police state. And that can operate under any economic system.

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." — Adolf Hitler, May 1, 1927

It might be an over-simplification, but to the absolute left is ultra-Socialism which can manifest itself as Fascism or Communism. To the absolute right is Anarchism. Complete government control over citizens and property vs. zero control over citizens and property.

It is a complete oversimplification that ignores the facts and the narrative, period. As if Hitler and Nazi narratives stopped in the 1920s. He, with the support of the capitalists, had the SS murder the socialist, homosexual leadership of the SA.

Hitler and the capitalists, historically and factually accurate, ended up as right-wing fascists, period.

 

[Big Fitz]

Exactly, CON$ervoFascism is a return to Feudalism with corporations as the feudal lords!!! Corporatism under the facade of Capitalism.

Leftist Rainbow for the thinking challenged.

Liberalism = Progressivism = Socialism = Marxism = Communism = Fascism

They are all with the same goal in mind. They vary only in how to reach that same goal.

Do you see Individual freedom in there at all? Do you see low government involvement? Do you see free entertprise or capitalism?

No. You don't. It's Neo-Feudalism. Replace the Noble class with "The Party" and then change the lines of succession. But in this Godless place, there will be no Clergy to help temper the out of control hubris and will of the Party over the peasantry. The only rich will be the Party faithful. Anyone who dares accumulate wealth and is not a Party member will be stripped of it and probably imprisoned or killed for it.

Right-wingnut black and white thinking challenged.

CON$ervatism = Fascism = Corporateism = Feudalism = Nazism

In CON$ervoFascism you can only be an "individual" if you CONFORM to CON$ervoFascism. All individuals who do not conform are grouped together as one enemy.

The leader of genius must have the ability to make different opponents appear as if they belonged to one category.
Adolf Hitler

May 12, 2008
RUSH: I maintain that moderates and independents are Democrats. Because, by definition, if someone or some organization is not conservative, it's by definition going to be liberal, not moderate, not independent, it's going to be liberal


CON$ervoFascist ChINOs, Christians In Name Only for political purposes only, like the Nazis they worship see religion as the means to control the masses.

For by employing religious force in the service of its political considerations, the crown aroused a spirit which at that outset it had not considered possible.
-Adolf Hitler

This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief. The great masses of a nation are not composed of philosophers. For the masses of the people, especially faith is absolutely the only basis of a moral outlook on life.
- Adolf Hitler

Edthecretin blows another gasket again. I swear you could set your watch by the dependability of his blithering idiocy.

 

[Contumacious]

I don't recall which thread, but I responded to a "Hitler got rid of unions just like conservatives want to"...as if~

Here is a great link that shoots the implication that Hitler was anything other than a fascist megalomaniac Hitler Didn

And this too:

There are right wing fascism (Hitler) and left wing fascism (Stalin).

Fascism is simply totalitarianism – a severe police state. And that can operate under any economic system.

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." — Adolf Hitler, May 1, 1927

It might be an over-simplification, but to the absolute left is ultra-Socialism which can manifest itself as Fascism or Communism. To the absolute right is Anarchism. Complete government control over citizens and property vs. zero control over citizens and property.

It is a complete oversimplification that ignores the facts and the narrative, period. As if Hitler and Nazi narratives stopped in the 1920s. He, with the support of the capitalists, had the SS murder the socialist, homosexual leadership of the SA.

Hitler and the capitalists, historically and factually accurate, ended up as right-wing fascists, period.

HUH? WTF !!!!

I think your vision is impaired.

How many fingers do you see?

.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Your libertarianian analysis, Conty, sees the world in binary numbers, 0 and 1. And your libertarianism can't hold the concept that right wing statism is as dangerous as left wing statism. Of course, libertarianism is more dangerous than statism if We the People can control the state. We the People can't control the Libertarian Lords in a society of equals; we would have to rise up and kill them.

 

[Polk]

It's not that the nazi were left, it's the left who took up the nazi's social agenda.

This is an even more absurd flip than the time you claiming being able to buy more goods per dollar meant a dollar is worth less.

Combines extreme nationalism, racism and some socialist concepts.

Unification of Greater Germany (Austria + Germany)
Land + expansion
Anti-Versailles - abrogation of the Treaty.
Land and territory - lebensraum.
Only a "member of the race" can be a citizen.
Anti-semitism - No Jew can be a member of the race.
Anti-foreigner - only citizens can live in Germany.
No immigration - ref. to Jews fleeing pograms.
Everyone must work.
Abolition of unearned income - "no rent-slavery". the left
Nationalisation of industry the left
Divison of profits the left
Extension of old age welfare. the left
Land reform the left
Death to all criminals
German law, not Roman law (anti- French Rev.)
Education to teach "the German Way"
Education of gifted children
Protection of mother and child by outlawing child labour. the left
Encouraging gymnastics and swimming
Formation a national army.
Duty of the state to provide for its volk. the left
Duty of individuals to the state the left

Internet History Sourcebooks

But notice that many of the things you label as "the left" never occurred (nationalization of industry and division of profits being primary examples). And several of the other things you label as "the left" (protection of mothers/children, duty of individuals to the state) typically seen as right-wing positions.

 

[Polk]

I refuse to believe Jake is as clueless as his posts. I still believe he plays devil's advocate here, but damn that must get really tedious after awhile.

Pure socialism takes complete control of the economy, generally through totalitarian means.

Facism, of which Hitler's Third Reich embraced, controlled the corporations by installing or controlling the CEO's/owners of those businesses. While the owners could still profit fro their businesses, they were required to use their property and production in the 'national interest' as dictated by the government authorities. Those who resisted were appropriated and run by the State. Pure socialism replaces the free market with a governent run economy. Facism gives the illusion of a free market capitalistic system but is setting and enforcing all prices and wages behind the scenes.

I don't recall which thread, but I responded to a "Hitler got rid of unions just like conservatives want to"...as if~

Here is a great link that shoots the implication that Hitler was anything other than a fascist megalomaniac Hitler Didn

And this too:

There are right wing fascism (Hitler) and left wing fascism (Stalin).

Fascism is simply totalitarianism – a severe police state. And that can operate under any economic system.

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." — Adolf Hitler, May 1, 1927

It might be an over-simplification, but to the absolute left is ultra-Socialism which can manifest itself as Fascism or Communism. To the absolute right is Anarchism. Complete government control over citizens and property vs. zero control over citizens and property.

That's not really accurate. You're getting level of government control mixed up with government's role in the economy. Fascism and communism aren't "ultra-Socialism", they're both forms of which envision a large role for the state, but for very different ends (dictatorship of the workers in communist, maximizing the profits of major industry in fascism). There are also visions of a minimal/no state on both the right (anarcho-capitalism) and left (anarcho-syndicalism).

 

[bigrebnc1775]

This is an even more absurd flip than the time you claiming being able to buy more goods per dollar meant a dollar is worth less.

Combines extreme nationalism, racism and some socialist concepts.

Unification of Greater Germany (Austria + Germany)
Land + expansion
Anti-Versailles - abrogation of the Treaty.
Land and territory - lebensraum.
Only a "member of the race" can be a citizen.
Anti-semitism - No Jew can be a member of the race.
Anti-foreigner - only citizens can live in Germany.
No immigration - ref. to Jews fleeing pograms.
Everyone must work.
Abolition of unearned income - "no rent-slavery". the left
Nationalisation of industry the left
Divison of profits the left
Extension of old age welfare. the left
Land reform the left
Death to all criminals
German law, not Roman law (anti- French Rev.)
Education to teach "the German Way"
Education of gifted children
Protection of mother and child by outlawing child labour. the left
Encouraging gymnastics and swimming
Formation a national army.
Duty of the state to provide for its volk. the left
Duty of individuals to the state the left

Internet History Sourcebooks

But notice that many of the things you label as "the left" never occurred (nationalization of industry and division of profits being primary examples). And several of the other things you label as "the left" (protection of mothers/children, duty of individuals to the state) typically seen as right-wing positions.

You keep saying nationalization of industry didn't happen like it's the truth I keep showing you it did. The left wants to take away the evil profits from people don't they?

So the left doesn't want children protected or have rights? And duty to the state are you joking?

 

[Polk]

You've shown no such thing. You keep claiming it happened, but never supported your claims with evidence. Your claims about the left wanting to "take away the evil profits" is a massive strawman, but that didn't happen in Nazi Germany either.

And yes, protection of mothers has always been a right-wing position (look at the context it was being used in), ditto for duty to the state (that's what glorification of military service is, after all).

 

[JakeStarkey]

bigreb's sources do not show that nationalization of industry occurred. He posted a source last year that stated clearly that it did not happen. bigrebnc, clevergirl, and foxfyre cannot at all in anyway every show that Hitler was anything other than a right wing statist fascist.

They will never get away with misdefinition and narrative inaccuracies.

They are absolutely clueless far righties and libertarians without a clue of political philosophy.

 

[Contumacious]

Your libertarianian analysis, Conty, sees the world in binary numbers, 0 and 1.

As it should be. Either something is true or it isn't.

And your libertarianism can't hold the concept that right wing statism is as dangerous as left wing statism.

Oh Lord of mercy. I need to show you the finger again. How many ******* times have I stated the same thing.

Of course, libertarianism is more dangerous than statism...

True, if you are a parasite. But you knew that roaches hate the light.

.

 

[Polk]

bigreb's sources do not show that nationalization of industry occurred. He posted a source last year that stated clearly that it did not happen. bigrebnc, clevergirl, and foxfyre cannot at all in anyway every show that Hitler was anything other than a right wing statist fascist.

They will never get away with misdefinition and narrative inaccuracies.

They are absolutely clueless far righties and libertarians without a clue of political philosophy.

Because they believe in the canard that the right is for "limited government". Ignore the calls for longer prison sentences. Or drug-testing the poor. Or an ever-expanding military budget. Or subsidies to big business.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Your libertarianian analysis, Conty, sees the world in binary numbers, 0 and 1.

As it should be. Either something is true or it isn't.

And your libertarianism can't hold the concept that right wing statism is as dangerous as left wing statism.

Oh Lord of mercy. I need to show you the finger again. How many ******* times have I stated the same thing.

Of course, libertarianism is more dangerous than statism...

True, if you are a parasite. But you knew that roaches hate the light.

Nope, life is far more complex than binary concepts.

Libertarianism is merely the flip side of communism: one the rule of a cadre of elites and the other the rule of "a society of equals".

Americans will neither accept communism nor libertarianism.