Is it time for Israel to re-take Gaza?

[montelatici]

Everybody came to attack Palestine. When did they go someplace and attack others?

Another post today where you are not making sense.

If you are talking about the "Palestinians", they are Arabs, they are Muslims.

Since the 7th century they went out of Arabia to conquer and populate all of what is now the Middle East and some of Europe.

Look at everywhere in the now called Middle East.

Majority Arabs everywhere.

Arabs are from Arabia
Copts are from Egypt
Kurds are from Mesopotamia
Assyrians are from Syria
Berbers are from Morocco.

And all of them have been forced by the invading Arabs to speak Arabic, just as the British colonies speak English.

No Arabs are people that speak arabic, Arabs can be from anywhere. Palestinians are not Arabians. Arabians are from Arabia. Palestinians are former Samaritans, Jews etc. that converted to Christianity, then Islam.

The Arabians populated no where, the desert could not support very many people so the Arabians were few and were only rulers, they did not do settler colonnization, because there were not enough of them.


"Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin..."

Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted

Palestinian are arabian ppl ..

Not at all, as they are not from Arabia.

Yes they are.

No they are the native people of Palestine.

In Palestine the "small" number of Arab invaders who had been imported by the Arabian conquerors were wiped out by disease. Thus the "myth" of the "Palestinian Arab" descending "from the Arab conquerors" appears to be factually incorrect for all but perhaps a few. Supporting Hogarth, Hitti, and Lewis, the Reverend Parkes found thatDuring the first century after the Arab conquest the caliph and governors of Syria and The Land [Palestine] ruled almost entirely over Christian and Jewish subjects. Apart from the bedouin [nomads], in the earliest days the only Arabs west of the Jordan (not all of whom were themselves Muslims) were the garrisons... "

Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted

 

[Shusha]

Enough. At this point in time, and in the context of the CURRENT conflict, all this bullshit about blood purity and crap is irrelevant.

Both people. There can't be an end of conflict without recognition of both people having equal rights.

 

[Shusha]

And I'm going to add this:

For all the people who insist that Arab Palestinians have the SOLE rights to the land: Tinmore, Linda Sarsour, the government of Gaza, the international community, whoever, wherever, whatever....its done.

There is no more discussion of sole rights. Both peoples have rights. A two State solution is the only moral solution. A one State Israel solution will become the only viable solution ONLY if the Arab Palestinians refuse to meet us in the sandbox. THAT is what the Arab Palestinians SHOULD be worried about. Can we meet them in the sandbox? NOT Can we make Israel go away.

 

[Coyote]

Another post today where you are not making sense.

If you are talking about the "Palestinians", they are Arabs, they are Muslims.

Since the 7th century they went out of Arabia to conquer and populate all of what is now the Middle East and some of Europe.

Look at everywhere in the now called Middle East.

Majority Arabs everywhere.

Arabs are from Arabia
Copts are from Egypt
Kurds are from Mesopotamia
Assyrians are from Syria
Berbers are from Morocco.

And all of them have been forced by the invading Arabs to speak Arabic, just as the British colonies speak English.

No Arabs are people that speak arabic, Arabs can be from anywhere. Palestinians are not Arabians. Arabians are from Arabia. Palestinians are former Samaritans, Jews etc. that converted to Christianity, then Islam.

The Arabians populated no where, the desert could not support very many people so the Arabians were few and were only rulers, they did not do settler colonnization, because there were not enough of them.


"Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin..."

Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted

Palestinian are arabian ppl ..

Not at all, as they are not from Arabia.

Yes they are.

No they are the native people of Palestine.

In Palestine the "small" number of Arab invaders who had been imported by the Arabian conquerors were wiped out by disease. Thus the "myth" of the "Palestinian Arab" descending "from the Arab conquerors" appears to be factually incorrect for all but perhaps a few. Supporting Hogarth, Hitti, and Lewis, the Reverend Parkes found thatDuring the first century after the Arab conquest the caliph and governors of Syria and The Land [Palestine] ruled almost entirely over Christian and Jewish subjects. Apart from the bedouin [nomads], in the earliest days the only Arabs west of the Jordan (not all of whom were themselves Muslims) were the garrisons... "

Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted

This is off topic, let’s not derail he thread. Stick to the here and now.

 

[Coyote]

You have a blockade that is creating a humanitarian crisis.

On one side of the blockade is a group that includes armed militants and a governing authority more than happy to whip it’s desperate people into a lethal frenzy and destroy the border fence. In fact, actively doing so with loud speakers.

On the other side you have a state protecting its border from people who include among their number those who’s stated aim is the destruction of that state and it’s people.

Caught in the middle are the many Gazans just trying to survive in an increasingly impossible situation.

And to add fuel to the fire, West Jerusalem has been taken from them by fiat, not negotiation and a two state solution is seemingly out of reach.

What do you do?

Should the state allow the fence to be torn and a flood of people, including armed militants to come through?

Does Hamas not bear some responsibility for the deaths of those rushing the fence since they encouraged it?

If you bear the responsibility for protecting people’s lives...what would you do? To those tearing down the fence? To those behind the fence seeing no future left? To those on the other side seeing it as the only protection from suicide attacks?

Very complicated.

 

[Shusha]

You have a blockade that is creating a humanitarian crisis.

I'll keep reading. But right away -- no. Any humanitarian crisis is caused directly by the government of Gaza. I know this because Israel and other countries are providing aid to Gaza to avoid a humanitarian crisis. There is no shortage of goods entering Gaza. The problem is that the distribution of goods once they clear Gaza's border is creating a humanitarian crisis. That is all on the government of Gaza.

 

[Coyote]

You have a blockade that is creating a humanitarian crisis.

I'll keep reading. But right away -- no. Any humanitarian crisis is caused directly by the government of Gaza. I know this because Israel and other countries are providing aid to Gaza to avoid a humanitarian crisis. There is no shortage of goods entering Gaza. The problem is that the distribution of goods once they clear Gaza's border is creating a humanitarian crisis. That is all on the government of Gaza.

I think the responsibility for the crisis is two fold, the blockade itself and the actions of the Hamas government.

 

[Shusha]

... and a two state solution is seemingly out of reach.

Is it out of reach? If so, why?

Can't solve the problem if you don't understand the why.

 

[Shusha]

You have a blockade that is creating a humanitarian crisis.

I'll keep reading. But right away -- no. Any humanitarian crisis is caused directly by the government of Gaza. I know this because Israel and other countries are providing aid to Gaza to avoid a humanitarian crisis. There is no shortage of goods entering Gaza. The problem is that the distribution of goods once they clear Gaza's border is creating a humanitarian crisis. That is all on the government of Gaza.

I think the responsibility for the crisis is two fold, the blockade itself and the actions of the Hamas government.

Well, at the very least, then, you should amend your first sentence to read:

You have a humanitarian crisis caused by a blockade and numerous negative actions caused by the government of Gaza.

 

[Coyote]

You have a blockade that is creating a humanitarian crisis.

I'll keep reading. But right away -- no. Any humanitarian crisis is caused directly by the government of Gaza. I know this because Israel and other countries are providing aid to Gaza to avoid a humanitarian crisis. There is no shortage of goods entering Gaza. The problem is that the distribution of goods once they clear Gaza's border is creating a humanitarian crisis. That is all on the government of Gaza.

I think the responsibility for the crisis is two fold, the blockade itself and the actions of the Hamas government.

Well, at the very least, then, you should amend your first sentence to read:

You have a humanitarian crisis caused by a blockade and numerous negative actions caused by the government of Gaza.

I am fine with that.

 

[Coyote]

... and a two state solution is seemingly out of reach.

Is it out of reach? If so, why?

Can't solve the problem if you don't understand the why.

There seems to be no political will for it from Israel’s government, the status quo is more productive, there is no unified partner to negotiate with on the Palestinian side, and the US has abdicated its position as a good faith negotiator, plus also lacks the political will.

 

[Shusha]

What do you do?

Sorry. I know I am being ornery. Not actually directed at you. You are asking good, reasonable questions. And being fair, for the most part. Grin.

The answer to the question depends very much on who "you" are.

If you are a Gazan? You have to make a choice between building up (Gaza) and trying to tear down (Israel).

If you are Israel? You have to make a choice between holding the fort (status quo) and making a unilateral decision which is going to push things, but ultimately resolve things? When is the right time to make that move?

If you are the US? If you are the EU? If you are Russia? If you are Iran? If you are Turkey? If you are Jordan? If you are Egypt? If you are Saudi Arabia? UAE? Quatar? Whole other ballgame of questions.

So who are you asking the question of?

 

[Sixties Fan]

No Arabs are people that speak arabic, Arabs can be from anywhere. Palestinians are not Arabians. Arabians are from Arabia. Palestinians are former Samaritans, Jews etc. that converted to Christianity, then Islam.

The Arabians populated no where, the desert could not support very many people so the Arabians were few and were only rulers, they did not do settler colonnization, because there were not enough of them.


"Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin..."

Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted

Palestinian are arabian ppl ..

Not at all, as they are not from Arabia.

Yes they are.

No they are the native people of Palestine.

In Palestine the "small" number of Arab invaders who had been imported by the Arabian conquerors were wiped out by disease. Thus the "myth" of the "Palestinian Arab" descending "from the Arab conquerors" appears to be factually incorrect for all but perhaps a few. Supporting Hogarth, Hitti, and Lewis, the Reverend Parkes found thatDuring the first century after the Arab conquest the caliph and governors of Syria and The Land [Palestine] ruled almost entirely over Christian and Jewish subjects. Apart from the bedouin [nomads], in the earliest days the only Arabs west of the Jordan (not all of whom were themselves Muslims) were the garrisons... "

Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted

This is off topic, let’s not derail he thread. Stick to the here and now.

... and a two state solution is seemingly out of reach.

Is it out of reach? If so, why?

Can't solve the problem if you don't understand the why.

There seems to be no political will for it from Israel’s government, the status quo is more productive, there is no unified partner to negotiate with on the Palestinian side, and the US has abdicated its position as a good faith negotiator, plus also lacks the political will.

There is no political will to do what, exactly, by the Israeli government?

 

[Coyote]

What do you do?

Sorry. I know I am being ornery. Not actually directed at you. You are asking good, reasonable questions. And being fair, for the most part. Grin.

The answer to the question depends very much on who "you" are.

If you are a Gazan? You have to make a choice between building up (Gaza) and trying to tear down (Israel).

If you are Israel? You have to make a choice between holding the fort (status quo) and making a unilateral decision which is going to push things, but ultimately resolve things? When is the right time to make that move?

If you are the US? If you are the EU? If you are Russia? If you are Iran? If you are Turkey? If you are Jordan? If you are Egypt? If you are Saudi Arabia? UAE? Quatar? Whole other ballgame of questions.

So who are you asking the question of?

I was trying to stick to Gaza and Israel...that is enough

 

[Shusha]

... and a two state solution is seemingly out of reach.

Is it out of reach? If so, why?

Can't solve the problem if you don't understand the why.

There seems to be no political will for it from Israel’s government, the status quo is more productive, there is no unified partner to negotiate with on the Palestinian side, and the US has abdicated its position as a good faith negotiator, plus also lacks the political will.

Yes, and yes and sort of.

So, why is there no political will from Israel? Why is there no negotiating partner on the Palestinian side?

 

[Coyote]

Palestinian are arabian ppl ..

Not at all, as they are not from Arabia.

Yes they are.

No they are the native people of Palestine.

In Palestine the "small" number of Arab invaders who had been imported by the Arabian conquerors were wiped out by disease. Thus the "myth" of the "Palestinian Arab" descending "from the Arab conquerors" appears to be factually incorrect for all but perhaps a few. Supporting Hogarth, Hitti, and Lewis, the Reverend Parkes found thatDuring the first century after the Arab conquest the caliph and governors of Syria and The Land [Palestine] ruled almost entirely over Christian and Jewish subjects. Apart from the bedouin [nomads], in the earliest days the only Arabs west of the Jordan (not all of whom were themselves Muslims) were the garrisons... "

Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted

This is off topic, let’s not derail he thread. Stick to the here and now.

... and a two state solution is seemingly out of reach.

Is it out of reach? If so, why?

Can't solve the problem if you don't understand the why.

There seems to be no political will for it from Israel’s government, the status quo is more productive, there is no unified partner to negotiate with on the Palestinian side, and the US has abdicated its position as a good faith negotiator, plus also lacks the political will.

There is no political will to do what, exactly, by the Israeli government?

Work towards a two state solution.

 

[Shusha]

What do you do?

Sorry. I know I am being ornery. Not actually directed at you. You are asking good, reasonable questions. And being fair, for the most part. Grin.

The answer to the question depends very much on who "you" are.

If you are a Gazan? You have to make a choice between building up (Gaza) and trying to tear down (Israel).

If you are Israel? You have to make a choice between holding the fort (status quo) and making a unilateral decision which is going to push things, but ultimately resolve things? When is the right time to make that move?

If you are the US? If you are the EU? If you are Russia? If you are Iran? If you are Turkey? If you are Jordan? If you are Egypt? If you are Saudi Arabia? UAE? Quatar? Whole other ballgame of questions.

So who are you asking the question of?

I was trying to stick to Gaza and Israel...that is enough

Right?!

 

[Sixties Fan]

What do you do?

Sorry. I know I am being ornery. Not actually directed at you. You are asking good, reasonable questions. And being fair, for the most part. Grin.

The answer to the question depends very much on who "you" are.

If you are a Gazan? You have to make a choice between building up (Gaza) and trying to tear down (Israel).

If you are Israel? You have to make a choice between holding the fort (status quo) and making a unilateral decision which is going to push things, but ultimately resolve things? When is the right time to make that move?

If you are the US? If you are the EU? If you are Russia? If you are Iran? If you are Turkey? If you are Jordan? If you are Egypt? If you are Saudi Arabia? UAE? Quatar? Whole other ballgame of questions.

So who are you asking the question of?

I was trying to stick to Gaza and Israel...that is enough

Unfortunately, all the countries and organizations Shusha mentioned are involved in this, and create problems beyond what should be dealt with only between Israel and Gaza, or Israel and the PA.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Not at all, as they are not from Arabia.

Yes they are.

No they are the native people of Palestine.

In Palestine the "small" number of Arab invaders who had been imported by the Arabian conquerors were wiped out by disease. Thus the "myth" of the "Palestinian Arab" descending "from the Arab conquerors" appears to be factually incorrect for all but perhaps a few. Supporting Hogarth, Hitti, and Lewis, the Reverend Parkes found thatDuring the first century after the Arab conquest the caliph and governors of Syria and The Land [Palestine] ruled almost entirely over Christian and Jewish subjects. Apart from the bedouin [nomads], in the earliest days the only Arabs west of the Jordan (not all of whom were themselves Muslims) were the garrisons... "

Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted

This is off topic, let’s not derail he thread. Stick to the here and now.

... and a two state solution is seemingly out of reach.

Is it out of reach? If so, why?

Can't solve the problem if you don't understand the why.

There seems to be no political will for it from Israel’s government, the status quo is more productive, there is no unified partner to negotiate with on the Palestinian side, and the US has abdicated its position as a good faith negotiator, plus also lacks the political will.

There is no political will to do what, exactly, by the Israeli government?

Work towards a two state solution.

How can Israel work towards it, when the Leaders in Gaza and the PA are actually working for a One State Solution?

 

[Shusha]

Work towards a two state solution.

There is a significant advantage for Israel for a two state solution, imo. So why is Israel not committed to work toward one? My thinking is that there is NOTHING, absolutely nothing, that Israel can do to bring about a two state solution at this point in time. Any unilateral action will only bring about another Gaza or an increasingly violent Gaza. She needs to wait for Arab Palestinians to catch up.