Is in vitro fertilization murder?

[Shogun]

Like I said. Says you.

There are many terribly deformed babies born in this world that don't look human. Are they non-babies because they don't look like a 6 month old healthy bouncing Gerber poster child?

Hardly.

And tax money is being spent to kill babies. Just as with any other health issue, those who provide the services should be obligated to provide information. It's unbelievable that we have less information on the statistics of abortion than any other health issue (including AIDS). You can compile stats without treading on anyone's privacy.

Are you really this stupid? Did I say ANYTHING about genetic deformity? Did I say that what a CLUSTER OF CELLS looks like is my criteria? Jesus christ you are one ignorant waste of oxygen.

So, why don't you pack up your lame fucking straw man and sit back down in your dunce corner where you belong, ok?


Cry me a fucking river because you can't dig your grubby fucking paws into the private concerns of your fellow Americans. For real, it's a fucking travesty that you can't invade patient-doctor privilage. Truely.


By the way, it's also merely YOUR opinion that a cluster of cells is the same thing as a fucking pre-teen adolescent. I've got medicine behind MY logic. What do you have besides the misunderstanding of the bible and your own goofy ignorance on biology?

 

[Shogun]

But he'll change as the science does.

This is about the CLEAREST example of your lack of comprehension of science that i can use to illustrate your ignorace.

yes, I will. Because THAT is what science does.

 

[Shogun]

A fence-sitter and a moderate are two different things. A fence sitter is undecided. Shogun seems to have made a specific position.

Indeed. And logic behind it besides the opinions of goofy fucking dogma junkies or feminist gone awry .....

 

[Shogun]

"It's a cluster of cells no more worthy of such nomenclature than semen on a cum rag or the product of a 28 day cycle."
You are obviously a disgusting misogynist.

You should hear what I say about property rights trumping lactation!

 

[AllieBaba]

Nothing's private, if we're funding it.

Individual privacy can be protected while still collecting data. Like I said, we have all sorts of data on HIV, and that information is a hundred times more protected than reproductive information.

I take statistical information all the time from welfare clients. It is absolutely protected...but to get federal and state funds, we have to jump through certain hoops to get certain information.

It isn't violating anybody's privacy to keep a count of how many babies at what stage of development are being aborted.

I'll tell you exactly why they don't want to do it. Because the abortionists KNOW they are lying to the public when they state that abortions of viable babies happens "rarely", and they are NOT going to let anybody get at numbers which proves they are lying.

I know they're lying because I've been to the clinics. I've seen what goes one. And voila, when I go online to see if my take is right, I see that THERE ARE NO STATS.

So everybody who claims they know how few advanced term babies are being aborted are lying. Nobody knows.

And nobody knows for one reason only...the information is being withheld. Not to protect privacy, but to protect the $$$$ that flows into the clinics and to the OBGYNs and Planned Parenthood and into the politicians' pockets from the lobbyists.

 

[AllieBaba]

You should hear what I say about property rights trumping lactation!

that's because you're a disgusting misogynist.

 

[mattskramer]

But he'll change as the science does.

Of course opinions and positions change as science, technology, and understandings change. People thought that the earth was the center of the solar system until science proved otherwise. People thought that biracial marriage was wrong until reason and experience proved otherwise. I’d rather be a flexible moderate than an inflexible absolutist. I am open to learning more. I hope that you are open too. At this time, I think that abortion should be outlawed except for cases in which the mother’s life and health is at risk, rape, and incest. In the future, with more experiences, understanding, science, and technological discoveries, my position may change.

 

[AllieBaba]

Sounds reasonable.

 

[bennylava]

Allie, you keep saying "Science will prove you wrong."

That is the whole issue at stake here. We as a society have no scientific proof of when life begins, so it is in the realm of morality. Each person has their own morals, and our government is protecting the right of women to use their own moral judgement as to when life begins.
I hardly think that any women who are getting abortions are thinking "oh good, now I get to kill my baby!"

They just believe differently than you do. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

 

[Shogun]

Nothing's private, if we're funding it.

Individual privacy can be protected while still collecting data. Like I said, we have all sorts of data on HIV, and that information is a hundred times more protected than reproductive information.

I take statistical information all the time from welfare clients. It is absolutely protected...but to get federal and state funds, we have to jump through certain hoops to get certain information.

It isn't violating anybody's privacy to keep a count of how many babies at what stage of development are being aborted.

I'll tell you exactly why they don't want to do it. Because the abortionists KNOW they are lying to the public when they state that abortions of viable babies happens "rarely", and they are NOT going to let anybody get at numbers which proves they are lying.

I know they're lying because I've been to the clinics. I've seen what goes one. And voila, when I go online to see if my take is right, I see that THERE ARE NO STATS.

So everybody who claims they know how few advanced term babies are being aborted are lying. Nobody knows.

And nobody knows for one reason only...the information is being withheld. Not to protect privacy, but to protect the $$$$ that flows into the clinics and to the OBGYNs and Planned Parenthood and into the politicians' pockets from the lobbyists.

I would ask if you are really that stupid but im pretty sure I have my answer


So, then if the STATE pays for medical exams for a poor person then her test results are NOT private?

wow.

what a fucking dingbat you are.

yea yea yea... YOUVE been there, done that. You are the everywoman that writers think of when penning novels. Clearly I believe you.

 

[Shogun]

that's because you're a disgusting misogynist.

or, surprisingly more conservative than YOU are when it comes to property rights!


damng, im just too quick for you today.

 

[AllieBaba]

Having different beliefs is one thing. I can believe in God, and you can not believe in God, and I could care less because that belief in and of itself doesn't hurt anybody.

But claiming that a human being has no right to live because it's a nuisance, or because it may fail later in life, is condoning murder, and eugenics, and there's no telling where it will end.

Well, actually, history tells us where disregard of life leads us.

 

[AllieBaba]

or, surprisingly more conservative than YOU are when it comes to property rights!


damng, im just too quick for you today.

No, you're not. But if it makes you feel important, being nothing but a girly girl, I'll let you take the points if you want them.

 

[bennylava]

"that's because you're a disgusting misogynist."

I don't know about you guys, but I've always thought misogynists were kind of sexy.

"But claiming that a human being has no right to live because it's a nuisance"
Here you are again, claiming that it IS a human being for everyone just because YOU think it is.

 

[AllieBaba]

If it's not human...what is it? Non-human? Chimpanzee? Mule deer?

Of course it's human. Genetically it's a complete human, moron.

 

[mattskramer]

Having different beliefs is one thing. I can believe in God, and you can not believe in God, and I could care less because that belief in and of itself doesn't hurt anybody.

But claiming that a human being has no right to live because it's a nuisance, or because it may fail later in life, is condoning murder, and eugenics, and there's no telling where it will end.

Well, actually, history tells us where disregard of life leads us.

What post is this responding to? Beliefs by themselves don’t matter. Beliefs (right or wrong) matter if people act on them. Militant Muslims have dangerous beliefs. People who ran the Salem Witch Trials had beliefs. Violently active anti-abortionists have beliefs.

 

[bennylava]

Ad hominem attacks, the refuge of the out-argued. Brilliant.

One could say that a skin cell is a human being since it has all the genetic material to make a human being as well.

 

[AllieBaba]

Only if it can develop a consciousness and exist as a human.

 

[mattskramer]

Ad hominem attacks, the refuge of the out-argued. Brilliant.

One could say that a skin cell is a human being since it has all the genetic material to make a human being as well.

What post is this responding to?

 

[bennylava]

Sorry I was responding to this

Of course it's human. Genetically it's a complete human, moron.

Yes a skin cell can be cloned into a human being. Does that mean that an individual cell is a human?