Is homosexuality a choice, a mental illness or something simply inherent?

[Quantum Windbag]

Some scriptures in some versions of the old testament state that we should stone gays. But "versions of bibles" is a question even beyond versions of the old test.

Murder in the Bible

^The bible isn't evil. but people should know their talking points.

Agreed, religion in and of itself it's more about conformity than God

I think it's ridiculous for religious gay haters to comment on what motivates you. You're demonstrating the reverse is also true.

I owe you rep for this.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Can condition people to do anything, up to and especially including commit mass murder (ask Hitler.) By comparison, sexuality is a weekends worth of work.

The ability to brainwash a person doesn't really fit your dialogue. If sexuality was merely a choice you wouldn't need such measures to talk you out of it.

Talking someone into doing something that it's out of their nature isn't at all like them doing something intheir nature.

You would be surprised how easy it is to talk people into something that is "outside their nature".

 

[Asclepias]

Some scriptures in some versions of the old testament state that we should stone gays. But "versions of bibles" is a question even beyond versions of the old test.

Murder in the Bible

^The bible isn't evil. but people should know their talking points.

Agreed, religion in and of itself it's more about conformity than God

Now you are an expert on religion?

Feel free to start a thread about your expertise in religion so I can demonstrate to you all the ways you are wrong. But, for one example of a non conformist religion.

Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations - UUA

Did you really type that? Non conformist religion?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What causes any compulsive behavior? It's not genetics. There is nothing about genetics that causes a man to be turned on by watching women wearing high heel shoes stomp small animals to death, but some men are turned on by that.

Fetishes are typically acquired, being that homosexuals tend to cohabitate, become involved in romantic relationships sometimes even abstaining from sexual contact until it isdeemed appropriate, it doesn't seem reasonable to equate it to merely something that you getyour jollies from. That tends to be the staple mischaracterization from people that argue against homosexuality.

She didn't ask about fetishes, she asked about compulsive behavior. There is a difference.

Also, if you think fetishes are not part of sexuality, you really shouldn't be discussing sexuality.

 

[GISMYS]

Huge downside for school children who in school are being taught "nothing wrong with sexual perversion give it a try you may like it" WOW!!! So they do try it even in grade school in the school building during school!!!! God HAVE MERCY!!!!

 

[GreenBean]

No it isn't, you said that homosexuality is genetic, That is flat out wrong, if it were all monozygotic twins would either be gay or straight. The studies show that this is not true.

Understanding Genetics

Did you notice that I, once again, used a link that disagrees with my position? Feel free to pretend to yourself that you are the one that is being unbiased and objective even though I have proved you wrong twice.

Twin studies of homosexuality have shown that identical twins are about twice as likely to both be gay compared to fraternal twins. This means that being gay is partly genetic and not simply something that a person learns or chooses to be.
There is one important thing to note, though. If the DNA sequence is the only thing determining whether someone is gay or not, we would expect that if one identical twin were gay, then the other would be too 100% of the time.
But this is not what scientists have found – the rate is actually closer to 50%. So while we know that genetics is involved, it doesn’t tell us the whole story. This is where environment comes in.

Boiled down , there appears there might be an inheritable factor / trait that increases the chances of of acquiring homosexual tendencies- but does not guarantee it. So they can theorize that ]in some cases there could conceivably be genetic factors that alter the odds of acquiring sexual dysphoric orientation , Ego-dystonic sexual orientation and related psychosis that equate to being Gay. .

That - in of itself does not prove that anyone is born gay - it simply proves that some people have a greater chance of becoming Gay. due to environmental factors , enhanced by genetic defect.

Sexual preference is not a psychosis.

You are not qualified to make that statement . I give you the benefit of acknowledging that you are indeed an intelligent person - but you seem to have a problem distinguishing fact from theory and realty from fantasy - I believe we had that discussion in the past - and you were wholly incapable of telling the difference between a fact and a theory.

Psychosis is defined as "A mental state caused by psychiatric or organic illness, characterized by a loss of contact with reality and an inability to think rationally. A psychotic person often behaves inappropriately and is incapable of normal social functioning."

Many people within the gay community suffer from psychosis HOWEVER , many professioials , even unbiased ones will sometimes argue that homosexuality is not a psychosis as homosexuals and lesbians are able to think rationally, are generally in contact with reality and are also usually able to function socially in a way people would see as normal.

So as to whether Homosexuality is a psychosis or not - is an opinion and not a fact - but it's an opinion and judgement that you are not competent to judge.

 

[Asclepias]

Huge downside for school children who in school are being taught "nothing wrong with sexual perversion give it a try you may like it" WOW!!! So they do try it even in grade school in the school building during school!!!! God HAVE MERCY!!!!

What school did you go to? At my school you got suspended for having sex on school property.

 

[GISMYS]

In numerous civilizations throughout history, personal values and morality have slid into the pit and were attended to by God’s wrath. The slide is, again, well underway in our great USA today. The destruction of Sodom is the classic example in history where the town was obliterated for practicing the homosexual lifestyle.

Homosexual activists have set a well planned and well financed agenda that started in the 1960s and now includes not only tolerance of their lethal lifestyle but acceptance with privileges as a special class, as a minority group. The key target is our youth. This can be seen in the following written by “gay revolutionary” Mark Swift and printed in the February 15, 1987 issue of Gay Community News. These excerpts are reprinted from the Congressional Record:

“We shall sodomize your sons, We shall seduce them in your schools, in your dormitories, in your gymnasiums, in your locker rooms, in your youth groups, Your sons shall become our minions and do our bidding. They will come to crave and adore us. All laws banning homosexual activity will be revoked. Instead, legislation shall be passed which engenders love between men. Our writers and artists will make love between men fashionable.... We shall raise vast, private armies...to defeat you. The family unit....will be abolished. Perfect boys will be conceived and grown in the genetic laboratory....All churches who condemn us will be closed. Our only gods are handsome young men. All males who insist on remaining stupidly heterosexual will be tried in homosexual courts of justice and will become invisible men. Tremble, hetero swine, when we appear before you without our masks.”

 

[Asclepias]

Boiled down , there appears there might be an inheritable factor / trait that increases the chances of of acquiring homosexual tendencies- but does not guarantee it. So they can theorize that ]in some cases there could conceivably be genetic factors that alter the odds of acquiring sexual dysphoric orientation , Ego-dystonic sexual orientation and related psychosis that equate to being Gay. .

That - in of itself does not prove that anyone is born gay - it simply proves that some people have a greater chance of becoming Gay. due to environmental factors , enhanced by genetic defect.

Sexual preference is not a psychosis.

You are not qualified to make that statement . I give you the benefit of acknowledging that you are indeed an intelligent person - but you seem to have a problem distinguishing fact from theory and realty from fantasy - I believe we had that discussion in the past - and you were wholly incapable of telling the difference between a fact and a theory.

Psychosis is defined as "A mental state caused by psychiatric or organic illness, characterized by a loss of contact with reality and an inability to think rationally. A psychotic person often behaves inappropriately and is incapable of normal social functioning."

Many people within the gay community suffer from psychosis HOWEVER , many professioials , even unbiased ones will sometimes argue that homosexuality is not a psychosis as homosexuals and lesbians are able to think rationally, are generally in contact with reality and are also usually able to function socially in a way people would see as normal.

So as to whether Homosexuality is a psychosis or not - is an opinion and not a fact - but it's an opinion and judgement that you are not competent to judge.

You should take your own advice. You claimed homosexuality was a mental illness. Now that you have been asked to provide some proof you have avoided doing so.

 

[emilynghiem]

Sexual preference is a psychosis. the result of very poor sinful CHOICE!!!

Dear GISMYS: this aligns with the similar points that
"some is genetic" / "some is social factor or choice"

[MENTION=42952]GISMYS[/MENTION]
do you agree
A. SOME karma/SIN is BORN, such as a psychopathic killer that was born with a personality disorder and manifested this in abusive and addictive behavior, that if they are criminally ill they didn't choose to be born or to be affected by this condition.

B. people COULD CHOOSE to get treatment and therapy to recover from such conditions (whether they "chose" it or were born with generational sins/karma passed down)

So even if A is NOT chosen but born spiritually, B can STILL BE CHOSEN. (That still means SOME cases of A are "by birth and NOT CHOSEN", even if B can be CHOSEN as you said.)

Schizophrenic people are not always by choice, some are by birth.
Even though some schizophrenic people can CHOOSE to seek therapy to cure them.

And Matthew 19:12 about some eunuchs made by man at
and some from their mother's womb. One is by choice, the other is not.

But we can CHOOSE either way to get help to change IF something is not natural.
You are right about that, but it does not mean the ORIGINAL conditions were chosen!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I have heard others claim you were being intentionally obtuse but had never seen it till now. I said that homosexuality is genetic. You said it's not and posted a study in support of what you said that actually supported me. Then you bring up the twins issue and once again I post a study that shows how epigenetic factors CAN TURN GENES ON AND OFF AFTER BIRTH and that sails right over your head.

Like I said. You don't understand even the basics so until you learn something you're merely wasting mine and everyone else's time. It's YOU who refuses to learn something new QW. Not me, and not anyone else who has posted here except for the religious nutters.

I'm unconvinced sexual behaviours are genetic. I htink we toor eadilt accept claims that a given inclination has a genetic source. My concern lies in that if such n such a behaviour has a genetic cause, then isn't genetic engineering away those genes inevitible? If homosexuality is genetic, aren't people going to ask for genetic engineered children minus that gene, or with it toggled 'off?'

Who we have sexual relations with is the result of our making a choice. The attraction though is different. But given all-male/female groups like in prison, otherwise perfectly heterosexual people will have sex with members of their own sex because that their only option. They're making a deliberate choice to have sex. May not be their first choice, but their ability to have orgasm or climaxes from it reveals that at least genes aren't solely involved. Conscious will plays a big part as well. And the willingness to 'make due' is the result of conditioning, not anything biological/genetic.

Its definitely your genes or the way your genes are expressed. There are several studies out that claim this. I'm thinking expression makes the most sense because identical twins can have different sexual orientations. Still that invalidates it being a choice.

http://www.the-scientist.com/?artic...title/Can-Epigenetics-Explain-Homosexuality-/

How does it invalidate it being a choice, other than your confirmation bias?

Since I actually posted the article you just did, after I had read it all the way through, I know for a fact it doesn't address the issue of choice. I also know that it is very careful not to say that epigenetics is absolutely the cause of sexual preference. Using it to try and prove your point just proves you didn't read it.

 

[G.T.]

But where is that nature coming from? We're all raised by other people who're imparting their natures onto us in the process. If we were raised alone on a desert island without even animals to witness behaviours from then we could see what our true natue is (assuming that were possible which it isn't.) So when we raise kids who eventually hit puberty and their bodies begin producing larger amounts of sexual hormones intiating desire to have sex, they've been conditioned for some years to think certain ways about sexuality. I'd think then that 5% of the ones raised to be heterosexual (as most everyone is but for a few exceptions perhaps) that identify as homosexual or at least not strictly heterosexual are overriding their conditioning by thinking independently. And maybe that's the variable. Rather than sexual behaviour having a genetic trigger, maybe raising kids to be more indepent-minded leads to some to experiment with homosexual behaviours, some realize they like it even more than hetero, and then id that way. Whereas more dependent-minded obvediant types stick to how they were taught repressing the natural curiousity for experimentation. I experimented with an out co-worker and realized both had their appeal. I was also taught to be very independent and self-reliant. So while my Mom emphasized heterosexuality, I had enough will to find out for myself.

You know how some gay persons have a different speech inflection and body language?

I've witnessed that in a child, lispy gay voice / girly seeming demeanor - - - - - straight brothers and sisters....................


who then grew up and came out as gay.

Nobody can ever convince me that it's not something *most homosexuals are born with since I've seen a child "act gay" before their sexuality was even present in their life, and then magically was gay when they were older.

Unless ultrasounds have improved significantly since yesterday you have no videos, of fetuses masturbating. You might have a few of them with near their pelvis, but you won't have enough detail to actually prove to anyone that they are masturbating.

I never stated that fetuses masturbate.

 

[GISMYS]

The Journal of the American Medical Association reported:
•50 percent of male AIDS victims reported having sex with an adult male by the age of 16.
•20 percent of male AIDS victims had sex with an adult male by age 10.
WOW!!! WHO is protecting our children????

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Please explain further.

Um...what I said seems completely clear, what about it confused you? Anti-gay Christians don't like you, they don't understand you, so for them to say what motivates you is preposterous. You would be the first to recognize and say that I'm sure. And I would agree with you when you did.

You don't like Christians, you clearly don't understand them, for you to comment on what motivates them is preposterous. Yet you turn around and do to them what they do to you that you object to. I am just pointing that out, maybe you shouldn't do that since clearly you're not going to do it accurately and what you said about them shows that. You don't understand them at all. So don't pretend you do.

Excuse me, I am Christian, and furthermore I never once mentioned Christianity, I said religion, which doesn't mean necessarily Christian.

And you are still wrong.

 

[Asclepias]

I'm unconvinced sexual behaviours are genetic. I htink we toor eadilt accept claims that a given inclination has a genetic source. My concern lies in that if such n such a behaviour has a genetic cause, then isn't genetic engineering away those genes inevitible? If homosexuality is genetic, aren't people going to ask for genetic engineered children minus that gene, or with it toggled 'off?'

Who we have sexual relations with is the result of our making a choice. The attraction though is different. But given all-male/female groups like in prison, otherwise perfectly heterosexual people will have sex with members of their own sex because that their only option. They're making a deliberate choice to have sex. May not be their first choice, but their ability to have orgasm or climaxes from it reveals that at least genes aren't solely involved. Conscious will plays a big part as well. And the willingness to 'make due' is the result of conditioning, not anything biological/genetic.

Its definitely your genes or the way your genes are expressed. There are several studies out that claim this. I'm thinking expression makes the most sense because identical twins can have different sexual orientations. Still that invalidates it being a choice.

http://www.the-scientist.com/?artic...title/Can-Epigenetics-Explain-Homosexuality-/

How does it invalidate it being a choice, other than your confirmation bias?

Since I actually posted the article you just did, after I had read it all the way through, I know for a fact it doesn't address the issue of choice. I also know that it is very careful not to say that epigenetics is absolutely the cause of sexual preference. Using it to try and prove your point just proves you didn't read it.

If you read my post all the way like you read the article you would see I didnt use it to prove any point. I suggested that there was an alternative theory. Its plain to see that its either genetics or epigenetics. You dont chose your inherent sexual orientation. However, you can later convince yourself to change it.

 

[GreenBean]

Glad to see you admit you have nothing and no one can refute that.

That's true there is nothing I have that you can refute . Did that answer your question, or did it question your answer, in any event your reesponse was a questionable answer .

Dont confuse yourself trying to deflect. You havent supplied a link proving homosexuality was a mental illness. What happened? Did you hope I would forget?

Start Here>

http://www.usmessageboard.com/members/greenbean.html?tab=quotes&perpage=20&page=257#quotes


Therapist Calls Homosexuality "Mental Illness"

"Most homosexuals don't want to be homosexual, anymore than a schizophrenic wants to hear voices. A highly respected colleague quietly told me that he cures 80% of the homosexuals that come to him."

Higher Risk of Mental Health Problems for Homosexuals

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Excuse me, I am Christian, and furthermore I never once mentioned Christianity, I said religion, which doesn't mean necessarily Christian.

You may go to Church, but since you said Christianity is primarily social, you're obviously saying you're not actually a Christian.

I don't go to church. I never said Christianity was primarily social, andto be Christian one only needs to accept Christ as their savior. I am Christian, whether or not i meet the criteria to be Christian in your definition is of no concern to me.

Please stop accusing me of dating things I did not say.

Who told you that all you have to do to be Christian is accept Christ as your Savior?

 

[GISMYS]

I GOT NO ANSWER!!! Why????===The Journal of the American Medical Association reported:
•50 percent of male AIDS victims reported having sex with an adult male by the age of 16.
•20 percent of male AIDS victims had sex with an adult male by age 10.
WOW!!! WHO is protecting our children????

 

[G.T.]

I GOT NO ANSWER!!! Why????===The Journal of the American Medical Association reported:
•50 percent of male AIDS victims reported having sex with an adult male by the age of 16.
•20 percent of male AIDS victims had sex with an adult male by age 10.
WOW!!! WHO is protecting our children????

Because the % versus the overall population, or even of the overall gay population - - - - - is miniscule.

In other words, our children ARE by and large protected.

 

[GISMYS]

I GOT NO ANSWER!!! Why????===The Journal of the American Medical Association reported:
•50 percent of male AIDS victims reported having sex with an adult male by the age of 16.
•20 percent of male AIDS victims had sex with an adult male by age 10.
WOW!!! WHO is protecting our children????

Because the % versus the overall population, or even of the overall gay population - - - - - is miniscule.

40,000,000 dead from HIV AIDS is not "miniscule" in my thinking!!! and you???