Is homosexuality a choice, a mental illness or something simply inherent?

[Inevitable]

You're wrong but even if you were correct, it doesn't really matter because what other consenting adults do in their own bedrooms simply is none of your business.

Why can't people get that through their heads?

Is YOUR sexuality MY business? Is what you do with other consenting adult(s) MY business?

What's the difference between "them" and "us"?

Stop the Peeping Tom and MYOB.

he first think behavioral science is science.

Does that actually make sense to you?

Excuse me, that was a typo.

I meant to say he doesn't think behavioral science is science

 

[westwall]

No it isn't, you said that homosexuality is genetic, That is flat out wrong, if it were all monozygotic twins would either be gay or straight. The studies show that this is not true.

Understanding Genetics

Did you notice that I, once again, used a link that disagrees with my position? Feel free to pretend to yourself that you are the one that is being unbiased and objective even though I have proved you wrong twice.

Gene's are traits that are passed on. In twins (or any family descent) one can get the gay gene while the other doesn't. Just like in heart disease. Two identical twins can be born and one inherits the gene that leads to coronary artery disease while the other doesn't.

Your argument is ridiculous.

How do monozygotic twins, which nave identical DNA, get different genes? Or did you not know that monozygotic twins are commonly known as identical twins?

Keep telling me how smart you are at science, it amuses me.

Epigenetic factors are known to alter the genetic structure of monozygotic twins as they age or is that beyond your knowledge base?

"Epigenetics involves genetic control by factors other than an individual's DNA sequence. Epigenetic changes can switch genes on or off and determine which proteins are transcribed."



http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/Epigenetic-Influences-and-Disease-895

 

[Quantum Windbag]

he first think behavioral science is science.

Does that actually make sense to you?

No, but you said it.

I would never say anything as incoherent as what you said to Luddly. It is not even a sentence fragment, I have no idea what you were even trying to say.

 

[Qball]

Science says it is.

Except that is the one thing science says it isn't, but feel free to dig up bogus studies from psychologists and social scientists that claim otherwise.

You're wrong but even if you were correct, it doesn't really matter because what other consenting adults do in their own bedrooms simply is none of your business.

Why can't people get that through their heads?

Is YOUR sexuality MY business? Is what you do with other consenting adult(s) MY business?

What's the difference between "them" and "us"?

Stop the Peeping Tom and MYOB.

I don't think you can define your social identity by who you have sex with and then insist society mind their business when it comes to your sexuality. I don't know that society has ever really cared that much about gay and straight. I think the interest some people have in other people's sexuality usually exists contemporaneously with people's desire to make their sexual preferences publicly known.

 

[Inevitable]

I did discuss it, and you accused me of supporting something I don't. I could point out that you took so much exception to me mistaking your position that you repeatedly accused me of a straw man fallacy when I simply misread a post. What does that say about you when you do the exact same thing?

It doesn't really say anything about me.

You brought up some unrelated nonsense about court room evidence.

I did so to make a point, one you missed.

You failed.

I guess I shouldn't assume that a person who everyone who agrees with him describes as intelligent is actually able to think.

perhaps you ought to think things through before you post them.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

he first think behavioral science is science.

Does that actually make sense to you?

Excuse me, that was a typo.

I meant to say he doesn't think behavioral science is science

Except I never said that, did I? What I said is that the APA is not a scientific organization, and that all psychotherapy is equally useless.

Are you putting words in my mouth because I am making points that you are having trouble refuting?

 

[Inevitable]

Does that actually make sense to you?

No, but you said it.

I would never say anything as incoherent as what you said to Luddly. It is not even a sentence fragment, I have no idea what you were even trying to say.

I apologize for my typo.

You don't believe behavioral science is science. You did say so yourself.

 

[GreenBean]

This is called the Clean Debate Zone for a reason.

More than that however is that words have consequences. Saying homosexuals are mentally ill, demented, damaged goods is the kind of thing that drives very young homosexuals to suicide. Its one thing to disagree or have a strong opinion but won't you please take into consideration that there may well be people reading this who are struggling with their identity.

Don't we have some degree of responsibility to those people? How would we feel if we knew our words caused a young homosexual to kill him or herself?

Or it drives them to come to the realization that they need help. Which Gay activists are trying to deny them the right to recieve .

Its one thing to disagree or have a strong opinion but won't you please take into consideration that there may well be people reading this who are struggling with their identity.

Oh trust me , i am fully aware of that , I worked in the Mental Health field for many years - I do not have a doctorate - by my superiors did -I've seen what happens to these people . I knew one young man who blew his brains out - not because he was Gay or oppressed -he was bisexual and infected his wife with the bug. There are many other horror stories - but I never heard of anybody committinmg suicide for the reasons you state .

In a society, advanced as we seem to think we are in our sciences - Reperative Therapy - which is fairly new - has a relatively high success rate - comparable to Drug Rehab - sometimes they relapse - but overall - if you can make the patient/victim aware that they are sick / not healthy you can enable them to seek the first steps toward a normal, healthy life. I've seen the dark side of homosexuality and how it effects people - the dark side is not pretty , but it is pretty much all there really is . Gay is not Okay

ALL of that is your opinion and that's exactly what its worth.

Its not fact and its not up to you to tell gays (or anyone else) what is "okay". Its not your business and the science does not agree with you.

You have been wrong throughout this thread. You're ignorant and closed minded. Knowing someone who has an education does not mean that education rubs off on you. It is accepted science that one's sexuality is genetically hardwired. You're free to hold some other opinion but don't pretend its fact.

You've been snotty and rude and condescending to another poster who has treated you with respect and civility you do not deserve. I admire and respect Inevitable for his calm, clean, adult manners. If it had been me, I would have taken your head off.

Its judgmental people like you who do the harm in this world. Stop posting the hate and the venom and toxic insults, and just accept that not everyone is like you. That's just the way it is and if we all embraced our differences, life would be a lot easier for all.

Its not fact and its not up to you to tell gays (or anyone else) what is "okay".

I'm making it my business - does that bother you ?

Its not your business and the science does not agree with you.

Au Contraire pierre - Science does agree with me - but I sincerely doubt you are in any way shape or form qualified to be a judge of that. If you care to give it a shot please feel free to dig up one of my assertions and try to refute it - I'll be eagerly anticipating your reply.

You've been snotty and rude and condescending to another poster

Yes - I have - and will continue to be so - don't like it ? --- C'est la vie

who has treated you with respect and civility you do not deserve.

You're dead wrong on that one Pal - you obviouslly don't know the History , no disrespect intended , but you simply have no clue as to what you're saying - do you ?

Its judgmental people like you who do the harm in this world.

Dead wrong again my friend - it's simple minded and naive people who cause all the harm in this world. Translated: Liberals and other useful idiots.

Stop posting the hate and the venom and toxic insults, and just accept that not everyone is like you.

My Hate and Venom = "Tough Love" are you familiar with the concept ?

That's just the way it is and if we all embraced our differences, life would be a lot easier for all.

And everything would culminate with Tinkerbell swooping down to sprinkle fairy dust on your castle and we'd all live happily ever after - Right ?


Ya know Luddy - I'm starting to take a liking to you - because you seem to have a good heart -I mean you really do care about your fellow man - but what you don't realize is that sometimes - your way of showing that and trying to help , well unfortunately my friend - it actually causes more harm than good . Regards and have a nice day

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Gene's are traits that are passed on. In twins (or any family descent) one can get the gay gene while the other doesn't. Just like in heart disease. Two identical twins can be born and one inherits the gene that leads to coronary artery disease while the other doesn't.

Your argument is ridiculous.

How do monozygotic twins, which nave identical DNA, get different genes? Or did you not know that monozygotic twins are commonly known as identical twins?

Keep telling me how smart you are at science, it amuses me.

Epigenetic factors are known to alter the genetic structure of monozygotic twins as they age or is that beyond your knowledge base?

"Epigenetics involves genetic control by factors other than an individual's DNA sequence. Epigenetic changes can switch genes on or off and determine which proteins are transcribed."



Epigenetic Influences and Disease | Learn Science at Scitable

Why are you pointing out something I already posted? What does it have to do with the fact that monozygotic twins have identical DNA, and your claim that they can still get different genes? You do understand that epigenetics, if valid, is about how the same genes develop differently, don't you?

In other words, you are wrong, just admit you made a stupid mistake and move on.

 

[Inevitable]

Does that actually make sense to you?

Excuse me, that was a typo.

I meant to say he doesn't think behavioral science is science

Except I never said that, did I? What I said is that the APA is not a scientific organization, and that all psychotherapy is equally useless.

so than you don't think applied behavioral science is a science.

Are you putting words in my mouth because I am making points that you are having trouble refuting?

Don't accuse me of anything because you fail to make coherent points.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No, but you said it.

I would never say anything as incoherent as what you said to Luddly. It is not even a sentence fragment, I have no idea what you were even trying to say.

I apologize for my typo.

You don't believe behavioral science is science. You did say so yourself.

No I didn't.

 

[GreenBean]

Except that is the one thing science says it isn't, but feel free to dig up bogus studies from psychologists and social scientists that claim otherwise.

You're wrong but even if you were correct, it doesn't really matter because what other consenting adults do in their own bedrooms simply is none of your business.

Why can't people get that through their heads?

Is YOUR sexuality MY business? Is what you do with other consenting adult(s) MY business?

What's the difference between "them" and "us"?

Stop the Peeping Tom and MYOB.

he first think behavioral science is science.

HUH ?

Yes Behavioral Science is a Science - I hope you're not an English major - Typo ?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Excuse me, that was a typo.

I meant to say he doesn't think behavioral science is science

Except I never said that, did I? What I said is that the APA is not a scientific organization, and that all psychotherapy is equally useless.

so than you don't think applied behavioral science is a science.

Are you putting words in my mouth because I am making points that you are having trouble refuting?

Don't accuse me of anything because you fail to make coherent points.

I never said that behavioral science is not valid.

 

[westwall]

How do monozygotic twins, which nave identical DNA, get different genes? Or did you not know that monozygotic twins are commonly known as identical twins?

Keep telling me how smart you are at science, it amuses me.

Epigenetic factors are known to alter the genetic structure of monozygotic twins as they age or is that beyond your knowledge base?

"Epigenetics involves genetic control by factors other than an individual's DNA sequence. Epigenetic changes can switch genes on or off and determine which proteins are transcribed."



Epigenetic Influences and Disease | Learn Science at Scitable

Why are you pointing out something I already posted? What does it have to do with the fact that monozygotic twins have identical DNA, and your claim that they can still get different genes? You do understand that epigenetics, if valid, is about how the same genes develop differently, don't you?

In other words, you are wrong, just admit you made a stupid mistake and move on.

I have heard others claim you were being intentionally obtuse but had never seen it till now. I said that homosexuality is genetic. You said it's not and posted a study in support of what you said that actually supported me. Then you bring up the twins issue and once again I post a study that shows how epigenetic factors CAN TURN GENES ON AND OFF AFTER BIRTH and that sails right over your head.

Like I said. You don't understand even the basics so until you learn something you're merely wasting mine and everyone else's time. It's YOU who refuses to learn something new QW. Not me, and not anyone else who has posted here except for the religious nutters.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Epigenetic factors are known to alter the genetic structure of monozygotic twins as they age or is that beyond your knowledge base?

"Epigenetics involves genetic control by factors other than an individual's DNA sequence. Epigenetic changes can switch genes on or off and determine which proteins are transcribed."



Epigenetic Influences and Disease | Learn Science at Scitable

Why are you pointing out something I already posted? What does it have to do with the fact that monozygotic twins have identical DNA, and your claim that they can still get different genes? You do understand that epigenetics, if valid, is about how the same genes develop differently, don't you?

In other words, you are wrong, just admit you made a stupid mistake and move on.

I have heard others claim you were being intentionally obtuse but had never seen it till now. I said that homosexuality is genetic. You said it's not and posted a study in support of what you said that actually supported me. Then you bring up the twins issue and once again I post a study that shows how epigenetic factors CAN TURN GENES ON AND OFF AFTER BIRTH and that sails right over your head.

Like I said. You don't understand even the basics so until you learn something you're merely wasting mine and everyone else's time. It's YOU who refuses to learn something new QW. Not me, and not anyone else who has posted here except for the religious nutters.

One more time, if sexual preference were genetic identical twins would always have the same sexual preference, they don't.

In other words, you are still wrong.

 

[Inevitable]

You're wrong but even if you were correct, it doesn't really matter because what other consenting adults do in their own bedrooms simply is none of your business.

Why can't people get that through their heads?

Is YOUR sexuality MY business? Is what you do with other consenting adult(s) MY business?

What's the difference between "them" and "us"?

Stop the Peeping Tom and MYOB.

he first think behavioral science is science.

HUH ?

Yes Behavioral Science is a Science - I hope you're not an English major - Typo ?

it's a typo they happen. If I was an English major I don't think a typo is that big of a deal.

 

[Inevitable]

Except I never said that, did I? What I said is that the APA is not a scientific organization, and that all psychotherapy is equally useless.

so than you don't think applied behavioral science is a science.

Are you putting words in my mouth because I am making points that you are having trouble refuting?

Don't accuse me of anything because you fail to make coherent points.

I never said that behavioral science is not valid.

When did I say you did?

 

[GreenBean]

he first think behavioral science is science.

HUH ?

Yes Behavioral Science is a Science - I hope you're not an English major - Typo ?

it's a typo they happen. If I was an English major I don't think a typo is that big of a deal.

Right -saw your other post re: typo after I posted that - no biggie - Just thought you were drunk texting

 

[Inevitable]

HUH ?

Yes Behavioral Science is a Science - I hope you're not an English major - Typo ?

it's a typo they happen. If I was an English major I don't think a typo is that big of a deal.

Right -saw your other post re: typo after I posted that - no biggie - Just thought you were drunk texting

No, just a typo.

 

[westwall]

Why are you pointing out something I already posted? What does it have to do with the fact that monozygotic twins have identical DNA, and your claim that they can still get different genes? You do understand that epigenetics, if valid, is about how the same genes develop differently, don't you?

In other words, you are wrong, just admit you made a stupid mistake and move on.

I have heard others claim you were being intentionally obtuse but had never seen it till now. I said that homosexuality is genetic. You said it's not and posted a study in support of what you said that actually supported me. Then you bring up the twins issue and once again I post a study that shows how epigenetic factors CAN TURN GENES ON AND OFF AFTER BIRTH and that sails right over your head.

Like I said. You don't understand even the basics so until you learn something you're merely wasting mine and everyone else's time. It's YOU who refuses to learn something new QW. Not me, and not anyone else who has posted here except for the religious nutters.

One more time, if sexual preference were genetic identical twins would always have the same sexual preference. the don't.

In other words, you are still wrong.

And you are being intellectually dishonest which is the worst thing I can call anyone. You have descended to the level of rderp and truthiness.....and that's hard to do.