Is homosexuality a choice, a mental illness or something simply inherent?

[Katzndogz]

I don't know how any straight person gets around the paradox unless they're either gay or bisexual.

There is no way I can "choose" who my "sex organ" rises up for. It's a natural occurrence. I cannot change it merely by choice.

Yep.

If its true that homosexuality is a choice, then so is heterosexuality.

Homosexuality is not a choice. Acting on homosexual urges is a choice just as acting on heterosexual urges is a choice.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

IS THIS SCRIPTURE HARD FOR ANYONE HERE TO UNDERSTAND????? Don’t you know that those doing such things have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who live immoral lives, who are idol worshipers, adulterers or homosexuals—will have no share in his Kingdom. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

It's quite easy to understand, I just don't believe it.

Yep, you nailed it.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

So sad all that drek and only one sentence with some mild argument value, extremely mild.

Gays make a consious choice based on subconsious factors

Prove it.

See I told you it was mild.

I guess you can't really come up with valid points when you are so busy attempting to insult me.

Ya think?

That line made me chuckle.

Its called mental masturbation.

 

[emilynghiem]

I don't know how any straight person gets around the paradox unless they're either gay or bisexual.

There is no way I can "choose" who my "sex organ" rises up for. It's a natural occurrence. I cannot change it merely by choice.

Yep.

If its true that homosexuality is a choice, then so is heterosexuality.

Homosexuality is not a choice. Acting on homosexual urges is a choice just as acting on heterosexual urges is a choice.

So is Choosing to ask and receive help with forgiveness and healing,
so any unnatural conditions can change. This causes no harm if things are natural.
So there is nothing to fear. It's a matter of choosing and agreeing to forgive
any differences, misunderstanding or fears we had from the past.

 

[GreenBean]

Yep.

If its true that homosexuality is a choice, then so is heterosexuality.

Homosexuality is not a choice. Acting on homosexual urges is a choice just as acting on heterosexual urges is a choice.

So is Choosing to ask and receive help with forgiveness and healing,
so any unnatural conditions can change. This causes no harm if things are natural.
So there is nothing to fear. It's a matter of choosing and agreeing to forgive
any differences, misunderstanding or fears we had from the past.

It's a matter of choosing and agreeing to forgive
any differences, misunderstanding or fears we had from the past.

The first step is in understanding where where the fears of the past are derived from , in the case of many homosexuals the fear from the past is childhood trauma which set into motion an extremely complex chain of events within their developing psyche that lead to their current state of dementia .

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The OP is not about Bible Study. If you wish to start your own OP in Religion have at it. Keep the religious arguments out of this one.

Thanks.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

So sad all that drek and only one sentence with some mild argument value, extremely mild.

Gays make a consious choice based on subconsious factors

Prove it.

See I told you it was mild.

I guess you can't really come up with valid points when you are so busy attempting to insult me.

Well unfortunately I do not have a degree in elementary Education, so trying to explain grown up topics to the Milk and cookie crowd is not my field of expertiise . Perhaps if you can't understand grown up conversations then you might consider sitting back , playing with your joy stick, and blowing monsters and zombies up on your screen. Be sure to clean the mess up when you're done - you might piss off your mommy.

You could learn a lot from Inevitable.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Homosexuality is not a choice. Acting on homosexual urges is a choice just as acting on heterosexual urges is a choice.

So is Choosing to ask and receive help with forgiveness and healing,
so any unnatural conditions can change. This causes no harm if things are natural.
So there is nothing to fear. It's a matter of choosing and agreeing to forgive
any differences, misunderstanding or fears we had from the past.

It's a matter of choosing and agreeing to forgive
any differences, misunderstanding or fears we had from the past.

The first step is in understanding where where the fears of the past are derived from , in the case of many homosexuals the fear from the past is childhood trauma which set into motion an extremely complex chain of events within their developing psyche that lead to their current state of dementia .

Its not just that your posts are full of really low down and nasty insults, they are also just plain ignorant.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

It's quite easy to understand, I just don't believe it.

Yep, you nailed it.

THEN YOUR SINS GROW AS NOW YOUR OWN POSTS SAY YOU DENY THE TRUTH OF GOD'S WORD WHICH IS ONE OF THE GREATEST SINS!!! Beware!!!

Please refer to this post (#166). Thank you.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/clean...-something-simply-inherent-5.html#post9313833

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The first step is in understanding where where the fears of the past are derived from , in the case of many homosexuals the fear from the past is childhood trauma which set into motion an extremely complex chain of events within their developing psyche that lead to their current state of dementia .

Its not just that your posts are full of really low down and nasty insults, they are also just plain ignorant.

I like dishing out low down and nasty insults, they sometimes snap people out of their stupors and from time to time - perhaps they'll even take a moment to reflect on their own demented little worlds. Please feel free to hurl some back at me - I dish it out and I take it in [Don't get no funny ideas about "taking it in - Capice ?! ]

they are also just plain ignorant.

If you mean ignorant as in mean and nasty - that was covered above . If you mean ignorant as in uninformed - try refuting one of my assertions - go ahead I dare you - I double dog dare you :>

This is called the Clean Debate Zone for a reason.

More than that however is that words have consequences. Saying homosexuals are mentally ill, demented, damaged goods is the kind of thing that drives very young homosexuals to suicide. Its one thing to disagree or have a strong opinion but won't you please take into consideration that there may well be people reading this who are struggling with their identity.

Don't we have some degree of responsibility to those people? How would we feel if we knew our words caused a young homosexual to kill him or herself?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Its not just that your posts are full of really low down and nasty insults, they are also just plain ignorant.

I like dishing out low down and nasty insults, they sometimes snap people out of their stupors and from time to time - perhaps they'll even take a moment to reflect on their own demented little worlds. Please feel free to hurl some back at me - I dish it out and I take it in [Don't get no funny ideas about "taking it in - Capice ?! ]

they are also just plain ignorant.

If you mean ignorant as in mean and nasty - that was covered above . If you mean ignorant as in uninformed - try refuting one of my assertions - go ahead I dare you - I double dog dare you :>

This is called the Clean Debate Zone for a reason.

More than that however is that words have consequences. Saying homosexuals are mentally ill, demented, damaged goods is the kind of thing that drives very young homosexuals to suicide. Its one thing to disagree or have a strong opinion but won't you please take into consideration that there may well be people reading this who are struggling with their identity.

Don't we have some degree of responsibility to those people? How would we feel if we knew our words caused a young homosexual to kill him or herself?

Are you a Jewish mother? Do you really think a guilt trip will stop people from saying stupid things?

 

[westwall]

That is the one thing anyone who pays attention knows it isn't.

My sister is lesbian. We knew she was lesbian by the time she was 10 years old. She is a man in every respect save her genitalia and has ALWAYS been so. She was the toughest kid in her school and regularly took on the bullies who were tormenting her friends.

She has been in a committed relationship with her wife for over 15 years. There is no doubt that she is lesbian and has always been one.

Likewise my daughters godmother. She too has always been a lesbian. She tried real hard to be "normal". She comes from a devout Catholic family and dated guys up into college. It was never comfortable for her. Never. She then was introduced to a lesbian from another college student and instantaneously she knew that it was the right thing for her.

I am sorry but you and those who think like you are simply wrong. You allow your religious training and upbringing to bias your thinking.

Good for her.

The science is actually irrefutable, being gay is not genetic. I actually have peer reviewed papers to back me up on that statement all you have is empty rhetoric and a false belief that you understand science. Feel free to look read through my posts and find the link.

Never mind, I know you don't actually care about the facts, so I will provide the link for you.

If you will note the paper actually contradicts my position that you are not born gay, so you can't accuse me of posting biased links.

Male and female homosexuality have substantial prevalence in humans. Pedigree and twin studies indicate that homosexuality has substantial heritability in both sexes, yet concordance between identical twins is low and molecular studies have failed to find associated DNA markers. This paradoxical pattern calls for an explanation. We use published data on fetal androgen signaling and gene regulation via nongenetic changes in DNA packaging (epigenetics) to develop a new model for homosexuality.

Homosexuality as a Consequence of Epigenetically Canalized Sexual Development

One study does not a "truth" make. It is a fact only. Interestingly enough in the Abstract (which you kindly provided was this statement of fact...

"Pedigree and twin studies indicate that homosexuality has substantial heritability in both sexes


What exactly does that mean?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

My sister is lesbian. We knew she was lesbian by the time she was 10 years old. She is a man in every respect save her genitalia and has ALWAYS been so. She was the toughest kid in her school and regularly took on the bullies who were tormenting her friends.

She has been in a committed relationship with her wife for over 15 years. There is no doubt that she is lesbian and has always been one.

Likewise my daughters godmother. She too has always been a lesbian. She tried real hard to be "normal". She comes from a devout Catholic family and dated guys up into college. It was never comfortable for her. Never. She then was introduced to a lesbian from another college student and instantaneously she knew that it was the right thing for her.

I am sorry but you and those who think like you are simply wrong. You allow your religious training and upbringing to bias your thinking.

Good for her.

The science is actually irrefutable, being gay is not genetic. I actually have peer reviewed papers to back me up on that statement all you have is empty rhetoric and a false belief that you understand science. Feel free to look read through my posts and find the link.

Never mind, I know you don't actually care about the facts, so I will provide the link for you.

If you will note the paper actually contradicts my position that you are not born gay, so you can't accuse me of posting biased links.

Male and female homosexuality have substantial prevalence in humans. Pedigree and twin studies indicate that homosexuality has substantial heritability in both sexes, yet concordance between identical twins is low and molecular studies have failed to find associated DNA markers. This paradoxical pattern calls for an explanation. We use published data on fetal androgen signaling and gene regulation via nongenetic changes in DNA packaging (epigenetics) to develop a new model for homosexuality.

Homosexuality as a Consequence of Epigenetically Canalized Sexual Development

One study does not a "truth" make. It is a fact only. Interestingly enough in the Abstract (which you kindly provided was this statement of fact...

"Pedigree and twin studies indicate that homosexuality has substantial heritability in both sexes


What exactly does that mean?

- that heteros give birth to homos.

?

 

[alan1]

Is homosexuality a choice, a mental illness or something simply inherent?

I really don't give a rat's ass.

Let's examine two possible media headlines.

1. *Insert Celebrity Name* announces that they are homosexual.
2. *Insert Celebrity Name* announces that they are heterosexual.

Guess which headline you never see?
Why does the media think one of those headlines is more important than the other?
If homosexuals think keeping the government out of their bedroom is so important (and I agree with that), then why do they keep publicizing what is going on in their bedroom?

On the face of it, I agree but they should have the same right I do and that's what they're demanding.

I support that completely.

If a brother and sister demand the same rights, are you fine with that?
The assumption being that the brother sister wont procreate just like the homosexuals wont procreate.
Just curious.

 

[alan1]

Is homosexuality a choice, a mental illness or something simply inherent?

I really don't give a rat's ass.

Let's examine two possible media headlines.

1. *Insert Celebrity Name* announces that they are homosexual.
2. *Insert Celebrity Name* announces that they are heterosexual.

Guess which headline you never see?
Why does the media think one of those headlines is more important than the other?
If homosexuals think keeping the government out of their bedroom is so important (and I agree with that), then why do they keep publicizing what is going on in their bedroom?

I don't think it's the homosexuals, It's the celebrity worship "news" that thinks drivel like so and so's sexuality is worth talking about. I would think homosexual people would be perturbed by that. Basically the celebrity chasing media is saying that the fact that a ball player or a dancer's sexual orientation is important. It really isn't.

But then, the media can't do that unless the person makes it known.
In a way, that may be a bit of a sticky wicket, since the media hounds the heck out of famous people, they will (in all likelihood) eventually discover said persons sexual preference. On the flip-side, most homosexual celebrities really do appear to make it a press event. Not unlike how most heterosexual celebrities make their new partner a media event also.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

My sister is lesbian. We knew she was lesbian by the time she was 10 years old. She is a man in every respect save her genitalia and has ALWAYS been so. She was the toughest kid in her school and regularly took on the bullies who were tormenting her friends.

She has been in a committed relationship with her wife for over 15 years. There is no doubt that she is lesbian and has always been one.

Likewise my daughters godmother. She too has always been a lesbian. She tried real hard to be "normal". She comes from a devout Catholic family and dated guys up into college. It was never comfortable for her. Never. She then was introduced to a lesbian from another college student and instantaneously she knew that it was the right thing for her.

I am sorry but you and those who think like you are simply wrong. You allow your religious training and upbringing to bias your thinking.

Good for her.

The science is actually irrefutable, being gay is not genetic. I actually have peer reviewed papers to back me up on that statement all you have is empty rhetoric and a false belief that you understand science. Feel free to look read through my posts and find the link.

Never mind, I know you don't actually care about the facts, so I will provide the link for you.

If you will note the paper actually contradicts my position that you are not born gay, so you can't accuse me of posting biased links.

Male and female homosexuality have substantial prevalence in humans. Pedigree and twin studies indicate that homosexuality has substantial heritability in both sexes, yet concordance between identical twins is low and molecular studies have failed to find associated DNA markers. This paradoxical pattern calls for an explanation. We use published data on fetal androgen signaling and gene regulation via nongenetic changes in DNA packaging (epigenetics) to develop a new model for homosexuality.

Homosexuality as a Consequence of Epigenetically Canalized Sexual Development

One study does not a "truth" make. It is a fact only. Interestingly enough in the Abstract (which you kindly provided was this statement of fact...

"Pedigree and twin studies indicate that homosexuality has substantial heritability in both sexes


What exactly does that mean?

Like I already said, you are not interested in truth, you just want to spout your ignorant opinion and ignore the science, homosexuality is not genetic.

If you don't know what heritability means why did you declare yourself to be the board expert on science?

 

[Inevitable]

So sad all that drek and only one sentence with some mild argument value, extremely mild.

Gays make a consious choice based on subconsious factors

Prove it.

See I told you it was mild.

I guess you can't really come up with valid points when you are so busy attempting to insult me.

Scroll back - [NO SILLY NOT WITH YOUR JOY STICK !!!!] - ONce again you are engaging in the Circle Jerk round house logic .

once again you have failed to pissy anything besides garbage.

 

[westwall]

Good for her.

The science is actually irrefutable, being gay is not genetic. I actually have peer reviewed papers to back me up on that statement all you have is empty rhetoric and a false belief that you understand science. Feel free to look read through my posts and find the link.

Never mind, I know you don't actually care about the facts, so I will provide the link for you.

If you will note the paper actually contradicts my position that you are not born gay, so you can't accuse me of posting biased links.


Homosexuality as a Consequence of Epigenetically Canalized Sexual Development

One study does not a "truth" make. It is a fact only. Interestingly enough in the Abstract (which you kindly provided was this statement of fact...

"Pedigree and twin studies indicate that homosexuality has substantial heritability in both sexes


What exactly does that mean?

Like I already said, you are not interested in truth, you just want to spout your ignorant opinion and ignore the science, homosexuality is not genetic.

If you don't know what heritability means why did you declare yourself to be the board expert on science?

How wrong you are. I am interested in facts. Truth is the purview of religion not science. To that end the definition of HERITABILITY is

1: the quality or state of being heritable


2: the proportion of observed variation in a particular trait (as height) that can be attributed to inherited genetic factors in contrast to environmental ones.

Heritability - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary


YOUR link supporting what I said. Don't you dare lecture me about science when you don't even know what the basics are. This is a simple definition which you seem to not understand.

 

[Inevitable]

I really don't give a rat's ass.

Let's examine two possible media headlines.

1. *Insert Celebrity Name* announces that they are homosexual.
2. *Insert Celebrity Name* announces that they are heterosexual.

Guess which headline you never see?
Why does the media think one of those headlines is more important than the other?
If homosexuals think keeping the government out of their bedroom is so important (and I agree with that), then why do they keep publicizing what is going on in their bedroom?

I don't think it's the homosexuals, It's the celebrity worship "news" that thinks drivel like so and so's sexuality is worth talking about. I would think homosexual people would be perturbed by that. Basically the celebrity chasing media is saying that the fact that a ball player or a dancer's sexual orientation is important. It really isn't.

But then, the media can't do that unless the person makes it known.
In a way, that may be a bit of a sticky wicket, since the media hounds the heck out of famous people, they will (in all likelihood) eventually discover said persons sexual preference. On the flip-side, most homosexual celebrities really do appear to make it a press event. Not unlike how most heterosexual celebrities make their new partner a media event also.

yes, they like the public to see them, that is why they are in that field

 

[alan1]

Homosexuality is genetic.

That is the one thing anyone who pays attention knows it isn't.

My sister is lesbian. We knew she was lesbian by the time she was 10 years old. She is a man in every respect save her genitalia and has ALWAYS been so. She was the toughest kid in her school and regularly took on the bullies who were tormenting her friends.

She has been in a committed relationship with her wife for over 15 years. There is no doubt that she is lesbian and has always been one.

Likewise my daughters godmother. She too has always been a lesbian. She tried real hard to be "normal". She comes from a devout Catholic family and dated guys up into college. It was never comfortable for her. Never. She then was introduced to a lesbian from another college student and instantaneously she knew that it was the right thing for her.

I am sorry but you and those who think like you are simply wrong. You allow your religious training and upbringing to bias your thinking.

There have been some studies that have shown that the more sons there are born into a family (and especially absent of daughters), the more likely it is that one or more of those boys will be homosexual. I have no idea if that is genetic, the law of averages, or learned behavior. but then it really doesn't matter to me.

I find the story of your sister to be interesting, because of my youngest daughter. My youngest daughter was very masculine in actions and behavior as she was growing up. She didn't like dolls, she liked toy cars. She didn't like pink, she liked fighting. She didn't like cooking, but she liked cleaning fish when we caught them. She didn't play with other girls, she played with boys. My wife (eventually ex-wife) and I had conversations about her, we were pretty sure she was lesbian and we accepted that. Then one day, during her 12th year of life, it was like somebody flipped a switch. She went from being all tom-boy to all young lady. All of the sudden, dressing nice, and pretty hair, and feminine behavior was important to her. And I really do mean, it was like somebody flipped a switch, she changed overnight. And she has been nothing but a lady ever since. She got married to a fine young man just two weeks ago.

Hehe, 20 years ago, I never expected that the son I never had (my tom-boy daughter) would become the woman she is today and neither did my ex-wife.