CDZ Is China really aggressive?

[Indofred]

Please note - Clean debate zone.

There is much around about China and Chinese aggression, but is that really the case?
Yes, China invaded and occupied Tibet (nasty), and China has had conflicts with India, but India seems just as guilty as China in that one.
There are disputes regarding islands, but who says China is actually wrong?
They have just as much right to make claims as Japan and South Korea and, as long as they don't take by force, there is nothing wrong in those claims.
The last is China's military build up. I maintain this latest increase is entirely in answer to United States forces being in their part of the Pacific, not as an aggressive force, but a defensive one.

My assertion is as follows.
China has the right to make claims on disputed land.
China has the right to build up its forces to protect against foreign military build ups.
China has only invaded one country, and that's not a bad record when you compare to other nations.

Finally, these news headlines came to my attention.
America sends troops to fight in foreign wars, whilst China sends doctors to fight foreign illnesses.

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

Years ago China lashed back at our State Department and Microsoft because we were putting pressure on them to stop pirating software (this was before Microsoft spent billions on effective anti-pirating software). China ripped off billions in Western intellectual property, CD music, CD movies, and especially software. China claimed the West had no legitimate claim on software piracy, because software is based on binary code (ones and zeroes), and that was a ripoff of the four thousand year-old Chinese concept of yin and yang. I swear it's true.

As to China flexing its muscles with its smaller neighbors, that's gone on for more than a millennium, especially against Vietnam. Oil is what everyone is after, of course.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The last is China's military build up. I maintain this latest increase is entirely in answer to United States forces being in their part of the Pacific, not as an aggressive force, but a defensive one.
Defensive, because the US is going to invade. LOL!

 

[Unkotare]

The Chinese military has taken Mahanian Doctrine to heart. It's no big secret to anyone with eyes (and sense) in their head.

 

[Indofred]

The last is China's military build up. I maintain this latest increase is entirely in answer to United States forces being in their part of the Pacific, not as an aggressive force, but a defensive one.
Defensive, because the US is going to invade. LOL!

I didn't say the US would invade, but it has made moves to build up its military around China, and made aggressive noises, whilst supporting others against China's land disputes.
I don't blame China for increasing its defensive capability, in order to counter a growing foreign threat.

 

[Indofred]

The Chinese military has taken Mahanian Doctrine to heart. It's no big secret to anyone with eyes (and sense) in their head.

Are you sure?
What about America's aggressive cyber attacks against China?

Inside the NSA s Ultra-Secret China Hacking Group

Many people blame China for cyber attacks against America, but America does exactly the same thing.
One has to ask why one is evil, but the other, defence.

 

[Unkotare]

The Chinese military has taken Mahanian Doctrine to heart. It's no big secret to anyone with eyes (and sense) in their head.

Are you sure?....

Yes, I'm sure. China has made no secret of it. If you could stop grinding your antennae over the US for a minute you'd see it for yourself.

 

[Indofred]

My position is simple.
Whilst I make no secret of my distaste for US foreign policy, that does not mean I hate America, just their foreign policy.
The same goes for China. I condemn their invasion and occupation of Tibet, but that doesn't mean I have to accept all the propaganda posted about that country.

In this case, I believe the Chinese build up is a direct answer to US weapons sales to other countries in the region, and US forces being posted to the area.

As an example, US forces are trying to build a base in Vietnam, an America "partner" in the region. This is absolutely pathetic - and a real slap in the face for all the American soldiers who were killed before the US lost the Vietnam war.



Then we look at US interference in the area.
All the comment is about China's near seas, and how the US deliberately enters the area.
Given these sea are near China, what dog does the US have in the race?



The distances involved means China is operating in its home area, but the US forces are half a world away.
One has to ask who the aggressive force is.

 

[irosie91]

china has been aggressive in many arenas-----including against India -------and has been quite
eagerly allying itself with those "elements" hostile to the USA as well as all that is decent----
the planet is small----the idea that the USA must ignore the filth that YOU SO LOVE----
is silly

 

[Unkotare]

Denials are pointless when the sum total of one's posts have made excruciatingly clear an unambiguous bias and "hatred."

 

[Indofred]

China has opened trade with many countries.
These countries may not be friendly with the USA, but why should that be a problem to other friendships?
Take Iran, a country that has no military bases anywhere near America, but is surrounded by US military bases.
Why should China dealing with Iran be a problem?

 

[Unkotare]

Spoken like a true apologist. ^

 

[Indofred]

Come to think of it, Israel also supplies weapons to China.
Is there something wrong with that?

Report Israel Passes U.S. Military Technology to China Defense Tech

Israel Second Only To Russia In Providing Arms To China

US acts over Israeli arms sales to China World news The Guardian

 

[Indofred]

Spoken like a true apologist. ^

You make accusations, but offer no valid points. Perhaps you could give it a try.

 

[Indofred]

As to China flexing its muscles with its smaller neighbors, that's gone on for more than a millennium, especially against Vietnam

China enagaged in a shot, very limited war against Vietnam - is China the only country to attack Vietnam and, if not, why does the other aggressive force have any moral right to talk about China on this issue?

 

[Rank Your Leader]

And China is starting to build and invest in Africa which is very "fishy"..

BBC News - China to build new East Africa railway line

 

[Unkotare]

http://jcpa.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/IransIntent2012b.pdf



Iran s Nuclear Timetable Iran Watch

 

[Indofred]

And China is starting to build and invest in Africa which is very "fishy"..

BBC News - China to build new East Africa railway line

Why is investment and attempting trade agreements with emerging markets, "fishy"?
The thread is questioning China's supposed aggression - this only goes to suggest they're interested in trade.

Edit - The British built the first line on this route - was that "fishy"?

 

[Indofred]

http://jcpa.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/IransIntent2012b.pdf



Iran s Nuclear Timetable Iran Watch

You may have misunderstood.
This Clean debate zone thread is about China, a country that the US of A does a lot of trade with.

Europe, despite American attempts to stop sales of military equipment, also deals with China.
Europe s arms trade with China The Strategist

A December 2013 Reuters report lists the following European arms equipment being used by China:

• French sonar, anti-submarine warfare helicopters on Chinese destroyers.
• French and German diesel engines on surface warships.
• British jet engines on PLA fighter bombers
• British airborne early warning radar on Chinese surveillance aircraft
• Eurocopter designs for attack and transport helicopters.
• German-engineered diesel engines from MTU Friedrichschafe on large numbers of the Chinese submarine fleet.

Some of these items include technology that had its origins in the US.

Israel and three major European countries sell arms to China, only America objects.
It seems the stories of Chinese aggression are limited to one country, with most of the rest of the world happy to trade with China, including arms sales.

 

[Indofred]

I think one thing is very clear from this thread - no one has managed to refute my assertion, thus it's probably true.
China is not being aggressive in a military sense, just an economic one.

 

[Unkotare]

http://jcpa.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/IransIntent2012b.pdf



Iran s Nuclear Timetable Iran Watch

You may have misunderstood.....

Not at all. You made a specific request.