IRS tech experts: Lerner’s hard drive only 'scratched,' not destroyed

[Ernie S.]

Joe!
Can you imagine a governmental agency following the law? (Under this administration, yes. I know, it IS difficult.)
Look! 99% of the records an agency is required to keep will never be subject to subpoena, but we have every right to expect that it is there when requested

Within reason, yes.

Hey you know what, every year we have an audit at work and every year there is that ONE DOCUMENT we can't find.

No one gets prosecuted, no one gets fired, we get a ding on the report and that's usually the end of the matter.

You see, all this bickering about e-mails is a smoke screen. You guys want Lerner's testimony so bad, give her immunity.

You run the risk she'll pull an Ollie North and fall on her sword.

Give her immunity??? Why? What does she have to offer in return for immunity? The whole point is we don't know how far up the food chain this goes. We can't know without documents Issa has subpoenaed.
Lerner and the rest of the IRS (on who's say so?) has delayed and stonewalled and finally after a year or so, we hear, "Crap! Lois's hard drive crashed. Everyone she ever sent a email to had a HD crash too and yup! The back-up hard drives crashed as well. Nobody followed the law and printed hard copies... EVER. (What fire out back are you talking about? I swear we aren't covering anything up or trying to hinder a Congressional investigation.)

Geeze, Joe! Is this all just some weird set of circumstances? Can you really sit there and say that this is all a witch hunt dreamed up by the GOP?
Immunity??? **** that. Hold her in contempt until such time as she agrees to testify.

 

[JoeB131]

No, you had it at "honestly I dont care." That might be the first truthful thing you've posted here in years.

Yeah, you dont care. So it's no use pointing out no one was trying to defraud anyone. What was happening was the IRS suppressing political speech ahead of an election.

YOu mean other than they were claiming to be social welfare agencies when they meant to do politics?

Here's the real problem. Our tax laws on campaign finance are about as solidly enforced as the prostitution laws. So the complaint here is that the streetwalkers are upset they are being hassled while the High-End escort agency gets a pass.

Is this your reasoning here?

 

[JoeB131]

Give her immunity??? Why? What does she have to offer in return for immunity? The whole point is we don't know how far up the food chain this goes. We can't know without documents Issa has subpoenaed.

But apparently those documents don't exist, and Issa has already gotten and reviewed hundreds of thousands of documents and can't find a smoking gun. Or a co-worker of Lerner's willing to break bad on her. The Mafia wishes it had people this tight lipped.

Lerner and the rest of the IRS (on who's say so?) has delayed and stonewalled and finally after a year or so, we hear, "Crap! Lois's hard drive crashed. Everyone she ever sent a email to had a HD crash too and yup! The back-up hard drives crashed as well. Nobody followed the law and printed hard copies... EVER. (What fire out back are you talking about? I swear we aren't covering anything up or trying to hinder a Congressional investigation.)

Is there a law that says they have to print hard copies?

Geeze, Joe! Is this all just some weird set of circumstances? Can you really sit there and say that this is all a witch hunt dreamed up by the GOP?
Immunity??? **** that. Hold her in contempt until such time as she agrees to testify.

Okay. Good luck enforcing that.

 

[westwall]

The desperation, at this point, is pretty pathetic. Come on cons you can do better

Yes, you're going to be desperate as hell if the Repubs ever get their hands on that thing. There's going to be a whole lot of corrupt assholes going to the grey bar Hilton...

What do you base that on? I mean other than wishful thinking?

If it weren't true the IRS would have handed over everything that was wanted idiot. The fact that they are so desperate to destroy every shred of evidence out there tells me (who actually thinks, unlike yourself) that they have a lot to hide and they are scared shitless of it being found out.

 

[Ernie S.]

Give her immunity??? Why? What does she have to offer in return for immunity? The whole point is we don't know how far up the food chain this goes. We can't know without documents Issa has subpoenaed.

But apparently those documents don't exist, and Issa has already gotten and reviewed hundreds of thousands of documents and can't find a smoking gun. Or a co-worker of Lerner's willing to break bad on her. The Mafia wishes it had people this tight lipped.

But apparently those documents conveniently don't exist. (fixed it for you)

Lerner and the rest of the IRS (on who's say so?) has delayed and stonewalled and finally after a year or so, we hear, "Crap! Lois's hard drive crashed. Everyone she ever sent a email to had a HD crash too and yup! The back-up hard drives crashed as well. Nobody followed the law and printed hard copies... EVER. (What fire out back are you talking about? I swear we aren't covering anything up or trying to hinder a Congressional investigation.)

Is there a law that says they have to print hard copies?

YES!

Geeze, Joe! Is this all just some weird set of circumstances? Can you really sit there and say that this is all a witch hunt dreamed up by the GOP?
Immunity??? **** that. Hold her in contempt until such time as she agrees to testify.

Okay. Good luck enforcing that.

We shall see

 

[GreenBean]

Now everyone's an IT expert I see.

You don't have to be an IT expert to figure statistics on industry standards or even the rate, which is less, according to the IRS testimony, than industry standard.

We have a situation where no less than 7 and as many as 20 hard drives crashed in the same month in a community of 83 people....

The fact that the acting director said, in an effort to minimize the number of 7 to 20 hard drives....

"The IRS has had 300,000 hard drives crash over the years" (or something like that)

....speaks volumes as it makes it clear he is not interested in finding the truth

So 300,000 over...say...30 years of computers is 10,000 a year....

The IRS has about 100,000 employees so 1 in 10 have hard drives crash each year

About 850 a month crash....so 0.85 people out of 100 have one crash any given month

So taking the least amount known to have crashed....7.....out of 83 people....

About 8.5% of the hard drives crashed in the same month

And he does not see that as unusual compared to the normal average of less than 1%?

And as per the less than 1% normal average - how manty are under Federal Subpeona ?

 

[Ernie S.]

Subpoenas put a huge stress on hard drives. Everyone knows that!

 

[depotoo]

You don't have to be an IT expert to figure statistics on industry standards or even the rate, which is less, according to the IRS testimony, than industry standard.

We have a situation where no less than 7 and as many as 20 hard drives crashed in the same month in a community of 83 people....

The fact that the acting director said, in an effort to minimize the number of 7 to 20 hard drives....

"The IRS has had 300,000 hard drives crash over the years" (or something like that)

....speaks volumes as it makes it clear he is not interested in finding the truth

So 300,000 over...say...30 years of computers is 10,000 a year....

The IRS has about 100,000 employees so 1 in 10 have hard drives crash each year

About 850 a month crash....so 0.85 people out of 100 have one crash any given month

So taking the least amount known to have crashed....7.....out of 83 people....

About 8.5% of the hard drives crashed in the same month

And he does not see that as unusual compared to the normal average of less than 1%?

And as per the less than 1% normal average - how manty are under Federal Subpeona ?

Amazing, isn't it, all of them. All (17-19) those that we know about crashing were subpoenaed.

 

[deltex1]

The back of her throat is severely calloused however...

 

[Jarlaxle]

Point was, the IRS did it's job - you got a good point ,... they certainly did do their job in stifling oppossition to El-Presidente. Some of the malarkey you pop out with Joe ... I mean really ...I almost feel embarassed for you .

Guy, you did not lose the 2012 election because some Tea Bagger group couldn't get a fraudulent tax exemption.

You lost because you nominated a Weird Mormon Robot that kept reminding people that it enjoyed firing people and it had more money than you did.

Dude - That's Irrelevant - the Obama Regime used a Government AGency to unjustly harass opponents -their activities demonstrated preferential treatment for lefty leaners and harassment of right leaners .

You are not following: Joey knows that and APPROVES of it!

 

[Jarlaxle]

I'm sure Faux Noise etc etc will fully report when it's proved there was never any "scandal"...lol

So do you actually believe that 6 hard drives crashed at the same time?

Of course they did!

When they were deliberately crashed, I have no trouble believing that those responsible did it to six of them!

 

[Jarlaxle]

The desperation, at this point, is pretty pathetic. Come on cons you can do better

Yes, you're going to be desperate as hell if the Repubs ever get their hands on that thing. There's going to be a whole lot of corrupt assholes going to the grey bar Hilton...

Nah...Obama will pardon them all!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Joe!
Can you imagine a governmental agency following the law? (Under this administration, yes. I know, it IS difficult.)
Look! 99% of the records an agency is required to keep will never be subject to subpoena, but we have every right to expect that it is there when requested

Within reason, yes.

Hey you know what, every year we have an audit at work and every year there is that ONE DOCUMENT we can't find.

No one gets prosecuted, no one gets fired, we get a ding on the report and that's usually the end of the matter.

You see, all this bickering about e-mails is a smoke screen. You guys want Lerner's testimony so bad, give her immunity.

You run the risk she'll pull an Ollie North and fall on her sword.

Ever lose all the documents, from multiple sources, that pertain to something?


Didn't think so.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Give her immunity??? Why? What does she have to offer in return for immunity? The whole point is we don't know how far up the food chain this goes. We can't know without documents Issa has subpoenaed.

But apparently those documents don't exist, and Issa has already gotten and reviewed hundreds of thousands of documents and can't find a smoking gun. Or a co-worker of Lerner's willing to break bad on her. The Mafia wishes it had people this tight lipped.

Lerner and the rest of the IRS (on who's say so?) has delayed and stonewalled and finally after a year or so, we hear, "Crap! Lois's hard drive crashed. Everyone she ever sent a email to had a HD crash too and yup! The back-up hard drives crashed as well. Nobody followed the law and printed hard copies... EVER. (What fire out back are you talking about? I swear we aren't covering anything up or trying to hinder a Congressional investigation.)

Is there a law that says they have to print hard copies?

Geeze, Joe! Is this all just some weird set of circumstances? Can you really sit there and say that this is all a witch hunt dreamed up by the GOP?
Immunity??? **** that. Hold her in contempt until such time as she agrees to testify.

Okay. Good luck enforcing that.

Internal Revenue Manual - 1.10.3 Standards for Using Email

You just lost the argument.

 

[The Rabbi]

Give her immunity??? Why? What does she have to offer in return for immunity? The whole point is we don't know how far up the food chain this goes. We can't know without documents Issa has subpoenaed.

But apparently those documents don't exist, and Issa has already gotten and reviewed hundreds of thousands of documents and can't find a smoking gun. Or a co-worker of Lerner's willing to break bad on her. The Mafia wishes it had people this tight lipped.





Is there a law that says they have to print hard copies?

Geeze, Joe! Is this all just some weird set of circumstances? Can you really sit there and say that this is all a witch hunt dreamed up by the GOP?
Immunity??? **** that. Hold her in contempt until such time as she agrees to testify.

Okay. Good luck enforcing that.

Internal Revenue Manual - 1.10.3 Standards for Using Email

You just lost the argument.

No, he didnt.
What you did was throw actual factual information at him. Joe doesn't do facts. They are irrelevant to him. He has a narrative and if he throws his narrative up against you enough times then you'll tire of it and he'll win. That's how Joe works. Because he's a piece of shit worthless goldbricking low information low intelligence ************.

 

[Ernie S.]

You'll have to forgive Joe. His last brain cell crashed.

 

[GreenBean]

But apparently those documents don't exist, and Issa has already gotten and reviewed hundreds of thousands of documents and can't find a smoking gun. Or a co-worker of Lerner's willing to break bad on her. The Mafia wishes it had people this tight lipped.





Is there a law that says they have to print hard copies?



Okay. Good luck enforcing that.

Internal Revenue Manual - 1.10.3 Standards for Using Email

You just lost the argument.

No, he didnt.
What you did was throw actual factual information at him. Joe doesn't do facts. They are irrelevant to him. He has a narrative and if he throws his narrative up against you enough times then you'll tire of it and he'll win. That's how Joe works. Because he's a piece of shit worthless goldbricking low information low intelligence ************.

Aww give poor Joe a Break -yes he's low on information and high on parrotted rhetoric, but he's not really as dumb as he leads people to beleive -every now and again he betrays a slight glimmer of intelligence -

 

[GreenBean]

Guy, you did not lose the 2012 election because some Tea Bagger group couldn't get a fraudulent tax exemption.

You lost because you nominated a Weird Mormon Robot that kept reminding people that it enjoyed firing people and it had more money than you did.

Dude - That's Irrelevant - the Obama Regime used a Government AGency to unjustly harass opponents -their activities demonstrated preferential treatment for lefty leaners and harassment of right leaners .

You are not following: Joey knows that and APPROVES of it!

Yet another example of the Obama Regime using Governmental Power to suppress opposition and harass opponents

A Justice Department fraud prevention program came under fire Thursday for allegedly morphing into actively pressuring banks to deny financial services to businesses for political reasons.

Operation Choke Point Hearing Reveals DOJ Strong-Arming | The Daily Caller

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/367188-another-program-to-suppress-opponents.html#post9504167

 

[Care4all]

You are only getting one side of the story, and making your conclusions off of that one side of the story...

and there are plenty of things that "look suspicious", at least the way they have been presented to us...and it is this presentation that is driving this signed, sealed, and delivered attitude about this whole case...

Like did you know that divisions in the IRS had classes for employees, several of them, that taught these employees about how to use thsee BOLO lists? Would this really happen if someone thought they were doing something wrong?

And did you know that they had a rotating schedule of the key words that they used...and that the word PROGRESSIVE was on all of them and still is on the BOLO list of today...? Did you know that number of 2 hundred and something audits that was smeared in the news where many Tea Party or conservatives were on it was only from one Bolo list during this period and that there were maybe 5 more of them that were mostly liberal leaning groups.... so we were given only very selective information, to make us form the opinion that things are even more suspicious than what they really were?

All of this is just a tad of what I don't like about this case....

It wasn't until after I stopped and took a deep breath and began researching the "other side of the story" before I decided to not let myself get caught up in the lies being spread as I was initially caught up in....and I took the stance of, what if I was the Defense Lawyer...what did I have on my side to help my Defendant?

And all kinds of stuff is out there...that actually does make more sense, than what it did when i first thought Lerner was automatically guilty of something...

Did you know, that the IRS was so concerned with being overloaded with emails, that they limited the emails each employee could have on the system to something like1800 in their mail boxes each, and then you were cut off...AND THE PROCEDURE at the IRS was to archive your oldest emails that you felt should still be saved on their own hard drives, and that each employee was responsible for their own archiving?

See, when I first heard about this with the spin from the right wing media and on this site, I thought it was utterly ridiculous lerner's emails were lost... just impossible...I had fried every hard drive I have had on my last 3 laptops in the 4th year of owning them, and all I had to do is sign on to yahoo, and walah! They were there...so how could learner lose these stupid emails they were telling us she lost????

But it turns out, she didn't lose any of her documents or recent emails or any active emails at all with the hard drive crash...she was able to recover her active emails, because they were still on the email server....so she didn't skip a beat.

It was the inactive emails, that she no longer had space in her email box due to the IRS rule of 1800 or so limit per employee, that she had to archive on her own hard drive, per IRS rules, because the irs did not have enough server space to store them...and that Irs claims this is how they had to handle their shortage of archive space because they did not have the $10,000,000 to buy a larger server?

But for this investigation, it has cost the IRS over $18,000,000 to gather the 750,000 documents that these Investigating Committees subpoenaed? Is their real intent to Bankrupt the IRS, so they have no money to investigate anyone?

so before this is done, the irs could have bought 2 humongous Servers for the next decade's use and never have a missing archived email problem again...

Now doesn't that make more sense on Lerner's emails missing? she handled her old and outdated emails and moved them to an archived file on her own computer to store them BECAUSE THIS WAS THEIR POLICY?


All of this when you read the Democratic Ways and Means committee's site

 

[Care4all]

Here's what I read....

But, didn't the emails stay on a server or somewhere else in the system?
The IRS has said no. That during this time period, the only system-wide email storage were backup tapes erased every six months. Thus the only permanent storage of emails was on employees hard drives. The agency changed this policy in May 2013.
How do we know Lerner's hard drive really did crash?
The IRS has supplied CNN and others with emails between Lerner and the IT department during the time of the crash.
At the end of a chain of emails, on August 5, 2011, an employee wrote, "Unfortunately the news is not good. The sectors on the hard drive were bad which made your data unrecoverable."
Lerner replied, "I really do appreciate the effort. Sometimes stuff just happens."http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/20/politics/irs-emails/

And then there is this on the supposed 6 hard drive crashes and email losses

What about the other missing emails? Did six other hard drives also crash?
The House Ways and Means Committee says that this past Monday, the IRS told them that the agency also lost emails belonging to six other IRS employees whose hard drives had also crashed.
they NEVER TOLD the committee that they were LOST, the committe jumped the gun, but lordy lord the whole right wing media has everyone believe the 6 hard drives fried and all emails of these people are gone too!


One of those six employees was particularly important: Nikole Flax, who had worked as chief of staff to the former head of the IRS. Flax was known to be involved in discussions about the tea party targeting.
The agency told CNN: "the IRS in recent days identified other instances where individuals had hard-drive issues. We are still assessing whether any of this data is permanently irretrievable, so it is premature to say that a significant amount of this data was lost as a result of these issues." NOT ONE OF NICOLE FLAX'S EMAILS WERE LOST, BUT the Republican congress critters TOLD US THEY WERE.

Read the underlined part....

Yet everyone here has been lead to believe that these emails of these people were lost just like Lerners and all the bull crap that goes with that....yet it is simply not known at all that any emails of anyone was lost?