Iraq and Bible

[cranston36]

Fact : On September 11, 2001 a group of men who were mostly of Saudi Arabian citizenship flew airplanes into the World Trade Center in New York City and the Pentagon and destroyed one airplane over Pennsylvania.

Looking at George Bush at this time we can see a lot.
I used to wonder why he was doing the things he was doing. It sure was vexing. It never was clear what he up to. Add in Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld and Condoleeza Rice and it just became a mess that just could not be cleaned up.
Then, on August 21, 2006 in the White House he said that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
That meant to me that Iraq is not part of the war on terror.
The next day, August 22, 2006, in Salt Lake City, Utah, he reversed it and told a bunch of veterans that Iraq is the biggest part of the war on terror. He must think veterans can’t read.
Then I started to wonder if indeed George Bush weren’t the biggest liar I had ever heard.
Now I don’t wonder why, I just wonder what he’s going to do next.
I reckon it won’t be too surprising. For some reason - when there is something that he needs to do for the good of the country he won’t do it.
I am not worried about ‘why’ anymore.
I am pretty sure that we have got a Judas Priest on our hands. Some folks have called him a ‘Witch-King’ but I think that’s going a bit too far. After all - lots of nice folks voted for him. Of course - he seems to have deceived a lot of folks so it all balances out.
He seems so brave to some. Cheney and Rumsfeld and Rice too all speak the brave talk.
When I hear them beating their chests I remember something from Job in the Holy Bible, “Job xli. There is no power on the earth which can be compared with him, who was created that he should fear no one.”
The Bible says that.
Another connection to the one who was created to fear no one spans back in recent American history.
To a man by the name of Billy Sunday. He was an evangelist who lived during the late 19th and early 20th century. He was a driving force behind Prohibition and influenced men like Billy Graham, Jimmy Swaggart, Pat Robertson and other modern evangelists and their preaching styles.
He started as a baseball player and there begins the link to President Bush. President Bush in his early career owned part of a professional baseball team in Texas. The company he was involved with arranged to have land condemned so that a new stadium for the Texas Rangers could be build. He made a pretty penny on the deal while he was still Governor of Texas.
That brings new meaning to the phrase ’Play Ball!’.
More like hard ball.
In any case, a close associate of Billy Sunday was a man by the name of Mister Peacock.
He was in charge of various duties for Billy Sunday’s Crusade and involved himself heavily in the area of communications. This was long before mass communication had become a big business commodity - Mister Peacock was well ahead of his time as he reached out to Americans everywhere while working through Billy Sunday.
Today there is a war in Iraq as we are all painfully aware of.
Islam - the religion of Muslims - is broken up into various sects. Just like Christianity is broken up into different sects and churches - like the Catholics, Baptists, Anglicans and others - Islam is broken up into Shiites, Sunnis and others. Shiites and Sunnis make up the larger population of active Muslims.
Shiites in Iraq lean towards Iran for leadership which is a Shia country.
Sunnis in Iraq look towards Saudi Arabia for leadership as Sadam Hussein, a Sunni leader, has been put in jail by the United States. Saudi Arabia is a Sunni nation. The men that flew their airplanes into the World Trade Center on 9/11 in New York City were Saudi Arabians of the Sunni religion.
The third major group in Iraq is not aligned to either the Sunnis or the Shiites. They are called Kurds. They want their own nation. They want to call it Kurdistan. Part of their nation lies in Iraq, part in Iran and part in Turkey. Irag, Iran and Turkey all want to keep the Kurds out of the way. The Shiites, Sunnis and even Christians and Jews have a religious reason to keep the Kurds from realizing their dream of national unity.
The Shiits, Sunnis, Christians and Jews are opposed to Kurdistan because of a central religious belief that the Kurds have. They believe in something called ‘The Peacock Angel’. The Peacock Angel to them will return one day and rule the world. To the Kurds he will be a new God. To Christians, Muslims and Jews the Peacock Angel is the devil. The Peacock Angel is supposed to be active in the world and working towards his own reconciliation with God at which time God will allow him to rule the world.
This brings us to the connection with Mister Peacock and modern evangelism and its association with President Bush.
The Peacock Angel seems to have power in this modern political world out of proportion to what people in general know about him.
One of the primary reasons if not the main reason given for invading Iraq (not including the lies about the Weapons of Mass Destruction) was to free the Kurds from the oppression of the Muslims.
Why would any God fearing agent like the President of the United States be intent on freeing devil worshippers unless there were some connection between them?
The connection between them, of course, is deeply rooted and flows through the evangelical speeches of men like Billy Graham and Pat Robertson like poison through the vine of life. From their mouths they spew not only hatred for specific persons that oppose them politically but they provide support for the worst among us. They seem to advocate that if you kill, maim and murder that if you merely think about Jesus Christ then you are saved.
What these men are doing is building an army for the devil and that army is now in the field.
Many good people believe that they are acting in the name of God when their very thoughts and actions are not only tainted with the evil of the Peacock Angel they are derived directly from that Satanic influence.
Look at how Pat Robertson tried to cover up the evil of the Sunni Saudi Arabians on September 11 by blaming America. Look at how he now supports the war in Iraq to free the Kurds and allow the worship of Lucifer, the Peacock Angel, to spread across the face of the earth like a plague.
Look how our President, the poor, pathetic man, one day claims that 9/11 and Iraq are not connected and the next claims that they are, and indeed, he claims Iraq is the number 1 priority of the United States.
Meanwhile the legacy of Mister Peacock lives on through the mass communication empires of Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swaggart and others.
When President Bush and Dick Cheney speak of evil being alive and well in the world today they are right but in pointing it out they are accidentally hiding its origin and its place among us. The evil is not only in the shadowy terrorists they point out but in the struggle of the Peacock Angel to gain control of this world through the actions of Saudi Arabians, the Sunnis, the Shiites and Kurds.
The evil in the world is being injected into our automobile gas tanks each day and showing up in our paychecks each week and in our taxes each year.
Jesus walked the earth and spoke about false preachers. The warnings are in the Bible. They are before us and the present actions of our so-called leaders have led to empowerment of devil worshippers, occupation of Iraq and militarism in Israel and Syria and Lebanon. They have led us here and told us we were going elsewhere.
We have war in the name of peace.
We have charity of the closed fist.
We have leaders who lie.
We are being told we have enemies we cannot see when in fact they are hiding in plain sight.
What are you going to do about it?
Will you work with the devil in the world or will you live up to your own ideals and learn about your enemies before it is too late?
They stand at the gates already. They are holding the door open.
President Bush and Dick Cheney are telling us we have to fight them in Iraq before they come to the United States - six years after 9/11 when the Saudi Arabians flew airliners into the World Trade Center in New York City, USA.
Has your own fear paralyzed you so that you will stand aside and let them destroy us without a word in protest? Without a hand against the Peacock Angel?

Job :
7 ¶ Wherefore do the wicked live, become old, yea, are mighty in power?
8 Their seed is established in their sight with them, and their offspring before their eyes.
9 Their houses are safe from fear, neither is the rod of God upon them.
10 Their bull gendereth, and faileth not; their cow calveth, and casteth not her calf.
11 They send forth their little ones like a flock, and their children dance.
12 They take the timbrel and harp, and rejoice at the sound of the organ.
13 They spend their days in wealth, and in a moment go down to the grave.
14 Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways.
15 What is the Almighty, that we should serve him? and what profit should we have, if we pray unto him?
16 Lo, their good is not in their hand: the counsel of the wicked is far from me.

 

[dilloduck]

That meant to me that Iraq is not part of the war on terror.

He's where you screwed up.

 

[dmp]

"If we are not careful, we may be spreading more darkness than we are spreading light."

1. The garden of Eden was in Iraq.

False. No one knows where the Garden of Eden was. The Bible nowhere gives a location for it other than “in the East.” Of course, where that is depends on where one starts. From Israel, that could be anywhere from Arabia to China. But since Israel does not yet exist in Genesis 2, there is no guarantee that “east” is from Israel.

Further, this assumes that “east” is a geographical comment. In many cases in the Old Testament, such simple indications of direction or location are far more symbolic than they are geographical. “East” is often a way to speak of threat or failure, and coming "from the East" is a way to talk about hope and possibility. Note that when Adam and Eve are driven from the garden they go to the east. Cain must live in the east as punishment for killing his brother. When Lot separates from Abram, he moves to the east. Abraham sent his other sons (besides Isaac) to the east country. There are other examples that all suggest that “east” is not a geographical location as much as it is a way of talking about failure or promise.

Some have suggested that since Eden is mentioned in Scripture along with the Tigris and Euphrates rivers this clearly locates Eden in Iraq.

2:10 A river flows out of Eden to water the garden, and from there it divides and becomes four branches. 2:11 The name of the first is Pishon; it is the one that flows around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold; 2:12 and the gold of that land is good; bdellium and onyx stone are there. 2:13 The name of the second river is Gihon; it is the one that flows around the whole land of Cush. 2:14 The name of the third river is Tigris, which flows east of Assyria. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

Several things need to be noted here.

a) There is only one river in Eden. It is only when it flows out of Eden that it divides and “from there” becomes four rivers. That would suggest, if we are dealing with physical description here, that Eden was described as being located at the head waters of the two rivers, which would place Eden somewhere in the mountains of Armenia or Southern Turkey south or east of the Black Sea.

b) The geographical location for the Tigris is not clear since the Tigris runs through the middle of ancient Assyria, not to its east. It is possible that only the city of Asshur, the 15th century BC capital of ancient Assyria, is meant. But that raises an entirely different problem of chronology since that city would not exist for several thousand years after the setting of the Genesis account.

c) The identity of Pishon is uncertain. Pishon only occurs here in the Old Testament. It is associated with “the land of Havilah” and that area along with Ophir, a near legendary source of gold, is mentioned elsewhere in the Old Testament as being in Arabia (Gen 10:7, 29, 25:18, 1 Sam 15:7, 1 Ch 1:9, 23). That suggests that Pishon may be located generally in the area of Arabia. It may refer to the Persian Gulf, the Red Sea or more narrowly the Gulf of Aqaba or the Gulf of Suez, the River of Egypt (Wadi el-Arish), or some unknown river in Arabia.

d) The identity of Gihon is likewise uncertain. It is mentioned as flowing around the area of Cush. Elsewhere in the Old Testament Cush refers to the area of Northern Africa generally from Ethiopia to eastern Egypt (for example, 2 Chron 16:8, Psa 68:31; in most cases modern English translation of cush is “Ethiopia”). That suggests that Gihon refers to the Nile. In some genealogies, Cush is the father of Nimrod, who is the ancestral founder of Nineveh, the later Assyrian capital. That suggests connections between north Africa and Mesopotamia, at least on the level of relationships between peoples. However, it gives us no geographical information.

e) Large rivers like these do not usually divide; they usually come together to form larger rivers. Some have suggested that this places Eden near the mouth of the four rivers where they empty into the Persian Gulf. This would place Eden somewhere near Bahrain, or on one of the islands in the Persian Gulf.

f) All of this assumes that the description of Eden is to be taken literally and is accurate in its geographical description. That evokes a certain view of Scripture that raises several questions. Why would Eden be described in terms of general geographic landmarks known to the Israelites in 1200 BC when the time setting of the story is many thousands of years earlier? Would that not suggest that the ancient Hebrews and Israelites were describing Eden in terms of locations with which they were already familiar? Is it at least possible that the ancient Israelites did not know ancient Near Eastern geography precisely, so that they were roughly bounding an area rather than giving precise and literal descriptions? How would they know the precise geography, unless we posit a certain theory of biblical inspiration and then use that theory as a basis for interpreting the material rather than using what we actually have in the biblical text from which to work?

g) The best conclusion that we can reach from the evidence is that we have no idea within a thousand miles and two continents what location is being described in Genesis 2. Maybe that is the point of the description, not to locate Eden at all but rather to place it somewhere within the immediate known world of the Ancient Near East.

h) It seems that the description of Eden is intended to locate it generally within a world with which the ancient Israelites were familiar, yet without precision. Since we have no way to identify precisely the location from the description, it seems that any interpretation of the Bible that depends on such precise location is pointless and driven by other agendas than sound biblical interpretation.

2. Mesopotamia, which is now Iraq, was the cradle of civilization!

False, or at least debatable. This was the consensus of early historians, and was taught as the truth in schools until the past few decades. However, recent archaeological and anthropological research now suggest that the first human civilization originated in central Africa in the rift valleys and in northwest Africa in the area of Nigeria. And even if it were true that Mesopotamia is “the cradle of civilization,” I do not see the significance or the relevance to any interpretation of the Bible in relation to modern Iraq.

3. Noah built the ark in Iraq.

False. Nowhere in the biblical account of the flood does it state where the ark was built.

4. The Tower of Babel was in Iraq.

Partly True. The biblical story only talks about the territory of Babel (along with Erech and Accad, from the later Akkadians, 2400 BC) and locates it in the Plain of Shinar (from the ancient Sumerians, 3500-1900 BC), which is roughly the territory between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. Those two rivers run from southeastern Turkey and western Syria to the Persian Gulf bordered by Iran and Kuwait, quite a distance. While there is no direct historical link of Babel in Genesis 11 to Babylonia, the city of Erech and the area of Akkad are thought to be located toward the southern end of the Tigris-Euphrates valley. This would place Babel in what in now southern Iraq. However, it could be further to the north. However, the significance of this in this context likewise eludes me.

In any case this neglects the theological dimension of the narrative in Genesis 11, written long after the events described there after Babylon had already become a symbol for chaos and arrogant rejection of God.

5. Abraham was from Ur, which is in Southern Iraq!

Partially True. The ruins of Ur are located in what is now southern Iraq. However, while this was Abraham’s ancestral home, something important in the ancient world, he is often referenced in the biblical narratives as being from Haran in the region of Aram, far to the north in what is now Turkey. Terah took his family and left Ur very early in the biblical narratives. Abraham received his call from God in Genesis 12:4 at Haran. Note that Deuteronomy 26:5 says that “my father” (referring to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) was “a wandering Aramean.” The city of Ur has only marginal significance in the biblical narratives.

6. Isaac's wife Rebekah is from Nahor, which is in Iraq.

Partially True. First, we need to note that in most of the early patriarchal narratives, people and places are interchangeable. Abraham was from Haran, yet that was also his brother’s name. His other brother was Nahor. This suggests that we cannot make too much of geographical names in the early narratives.

The city itself is not specifically named; it is only given as “the city of Nahor.” The location of this city is unknown. The biblical reference only places it in Aram-naharayim, “Aram of the Two Rivers.” The assumption is that this would be the ancestral home near Ur, but the reference is only to the general area of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. Again, I fail to see any significance to this other than the fact that it was the ancient custom to marry within tribes, which would require returning to the ancestral homeland for a wife. Nothing is made in any of these biblical narratives of any particular significance of the geographical location.

7. Jacob met Rachel in Iraq.

False. Jacob went to the territory of Aram, specifically Paddam-aram, which is the area around Haran in southern Turkey and northern Syria. Laban, Rachael’s father, is specifically said to live in Paddam-aram and is described as an Aramean. This is far to the north of present-day Iraq.

8. Jonah preached in Nineveh - which is in Iraq.

Partially True. Ninevah was the capital of the Assyrian empire in the eighth and seventh centuries BC, which occupied the upper reaches of the Tigris-Euphrates valley, partially in modern Iraq and partially in southern Turkey. The ruins of the city lie near Mosul in far northern Iraq. However, Assyrian territory extended beyond the border of present-day Iraq.

9. Assyria, which is in Iraq, conquered the ten tribes of Israel.

Partially True. Assyria did conquer the northern ten tribes in 721 BC. But as noted above, the Assyrian Empire lay only partially in what is now Iraq, reaching further north than the present boundaries of Iraq.

10. Amos cried out in Iraq!

False. Amos proclaimed his message in the northern kingdom of Israel. There is no mention of him ever visiting any area outside Judah and Israel. There is not even a record of his pronouncing any prophetic word against either Assyria or Babylon.

11. Babylon, which is in Iraq, destroyed Jerusalem. . . .

True but misleading. All of these references to Babylon as being in Iraq are misleading at best. Iraq covers a much larger or different area than did ancient Sumer, Akkad, Assyria, or Babylon. It is virtually meaningless to try to identify any and every mention of Babylon in the Old Testament as being in Iraq, especially since Iraq has only been in existence for 70 years or so, and in some sense is a totally “artificial” country created by the demands of 20th century politics.

12. Daniel was in the lion's den in Iraq!

See #11.

13. The three Hebrew children were in the fire in Iraq

See #11.

(Jesus had been in Iraq also as the fourth person in the fiery furnace!

False. To identify the figure in the furnace as Jesus is anachronistic. There is no Jesus named anywhere in the Old Testament. It is only by interpretation that we get any references to or about Jesus in the Old Testament, and those are always colored by certain theological slants.

Also, the construction of this verse in Daniel 3:25 in Aramaic does not specifically imply “the son of God.” It is an idiomatic phrase that emphasizes resemblance. Note the NRSV translation: “. . . and the fourth has the appearance of a god.” The implication in this context is that the presence of God was with the three Hebrew men, an important point to make to a king who has presented himself as a god to be worshipped.

14. Belshazzar, the King of Babylon saw the "writing on the wall" in Iraq.

See #11.

15. Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, carried the Jews captive into Iraq.

See #11.

16. Ezekiel preached in Iraq.

See #11. It is not at all clear from the Book of Ezekiel that he is actually in Babylon, although it is likely.

17. The wise men were from Iraq.

False. The biblical text never says where the Magi were from beyond saying that they came “from the East.” See # 1 on the biblical symbolism of "the East."

18. Peter preached in Iraq.

False. There is no mention of Peter visiting this area.

19. The "Empire of Man" described in Revelation is called Babylon, which was a city in Iraq!

See #11.

And you have probably seen this one. Israel is the nation most often mentioned in the Bible. But do you know which nation is second? It is Iraq! However, that is not the name that is used in the Bible. The names used in the Bible are Babylon, Land of Shinar, and Mesopotamia. The word Mesopotamia means between the two rivers, more exactly between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. The name Iraq, means country with deep roots.

False. Egypt is mentioned almost three times as often in the Bible as is Babylon. See #11.

Indeed Iraq is a country with deep roots and is a very significant country in the Bible.

False. Iraq is never mentioned in the Bible, so can have no significance. See #11.

No other nation, except Israel, has more history and prophecy associated it than Iraq.

False. As noted, Egypt is mentioned far more often than Babylon. Israel has a far longer history with Egypt than with Babylon, since Babylon did not emerge until the fall of Assyria in 611 BC. In the NT, Babylon has become a symbol to talk about evil, and is used throughout the NT to refer to Rome, not to any country in the Middle East. “Babylon” throughout the Book of Revelation refers to Rome.

And also... This is something to think about! Since America is typically represented by an eagle. Saddam should have read up on his Muslim passages... The following verse is from the Koran, (the Islamic Bible) (Note the verse number!) Hmmmmmmm?! God Bless you all Amen !

Koran (9:11) - For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; and there was peace.

False. This is a total hoax. From Snopes, a web site that debunks hoaxes and urban legends:

Claim: Quranic verse speaks of the "wrath of the Eagle cleansing the lands of Allah."

Status: False.

Example: [Collected on the Internet, 2003]

Quran (9:11) -- For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; and there was peace.

Origins: No, this isn't a legitimate quotation from the Quran (or Koran), the sacred text of Islam. The chapter and verse citation quoted above is a leg-pull, an obvious play on the USA's (the Eagle) launching of military action against Afghanistan and Iraq (the "lands of Allah") in response to the September 11 terrorist attacks on America organized by Osama bin Laden (the "son of Arabia awakening a fearsome eagle"). That the chapter and verse selection match the date of the terrorist attacks (9:11) is another giveaway to the joke.

Depending upon which translation of the Quran one uses, the section corresponding to chapter 9, verse 11 actually reads something like this:

But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know.

The actual text of this section of the Qu'ran can be read at the University of Virginia's site: Qu'ran "Chapter" 9.

This illustrates how strongly held opinions can be mixed with bad biblical interpretation, emotion, and ill-conceived theology to produce something that is essentially fiction. In fact, since it is being presented as a Christian biblical view it is worse than fiction; it is outright propaganda and most of it false at that. What makes that so bad is that too many Christians are not only believing this kind of material but are basing political and ethical responses on it.

All of this calls for much more careful critical evaluation of material that is circulated on the internet or by e-mail as the latest truth about world affairs, political candidates, or ethical issues. At the very least, Christians should approach such material with a large dose of skepticism. A better approach would be to get their basic biblical and theological information from more reputable sources than web sites and e-mail (and that includes this site; it was never intended that this site should provide information apart from the ministry of a church or local congregation).

It might also suggest the need for a great deal of humility in prayer seeking the guidance of God in developing opinions and attitudes, lest we end up doing harm to God and the Kingdom rather than living as a servant of God to others. If we are not careful, we may be spreading more darkness than we are spreading light.

http://www.crivoice.org/urbanlegend.html