Interesting post fom another board...

[daveman]

Even before the tax credit, $56,500 for a luxury sports car is well within current market norms.

Hell, look up the price of a 'vette, or a loaded camaro or loaded 'stang.

Now that chevy volt? Priced waaaay outside of market norms for a small sedan IMO.

Indeed. In this case, you don't get what you pay for, because the Volt has such an anemic range.

Volt has a good range. 300 miles isn't bad. Plus it can recharge on the go essentially. Thats whats innovative about it.

Its the price tag thats the cock-blocker here.

The battery-only range is only 40 miles.

 

[boedicca]

The Volt: All the comfort and style of a $15,000 econo car for a politcially correct $41,000 price tag.

 

[Truthmatters]

As an ELECTRICAL ENGINEER, I can tell you that electric cars are not viable

Either short term or long term, electric cars are a pipe dream. Conversion of electrical energy to mechanical energy in an automobile is highly inefficient. And most sources used to charge the batteries will remain fossil powered for a long time unless we allow new nuclear power plants to be built.

GM has shown they are truly government motors- providing an expensive complex solution for a problem that didn't exist.

It's pretty clear that the goal isn't just to get us off fossil fuels...the goal is to get us out of our cars.

Only the rich will be able afford an automobile.

This may sound like a conspiracy but at this point an time in my life things that are happening have not changed my mind. They want the American people to stay put. They want to stop us from being able to congregate together. You cannot believe the news media, so to keep people in the dark as to what is going on they want to restrict our travel.

your insane

 

[RadiomanATL]

Indeed. In this case, you don't get what you pay for, because the Volt has such an anemic range.

Volt has a good range. 300 miles isn't bad. Plus it can recharge on the go essentially. Thats whats innovative about it.

Its the price tag thats the cock-blocker here.

The battery-only range is only 40 miles.

Yeah, but thats not how it is supposed to be driven.

The generator charges the batteries while you are on the move. No need to have a large battery with a long range if the design specifically calls for that type of recharging capability. Waste of room and resources.

Thats sorta like complaining that your brake pads only last 1,000 miles because you ride your brakes.

 

[RadiomanATL]

The Volt: All the comfort and style of a $15,000 econo car for a politcially correct $41,000 price tag.

Thats really the bottom line there.

 

[B. Kidd]

Nothing real revolutionary about this technology. To me, it just looks like they adapted existing RV electric technology, to a motor, with batteries that hold a higher capacity charge which charge somewhat quicker than conventional batteries.
Only the battery capacity, output, and reduced charge time, seems to be the only real techno innovation.

 

[daveman]

Volt has a good range. 300 miles isn't bad. Plus it can recharge on the go essentially. Thats whats innovative about it.

Its the price tag thats the cock-blocker here.

The battery-only range is only 40 miles.

Yeah, but thats not how it is supposed to be driven.

The generator charges the batteries while you are on the move. No need to have a large battery with a long range if the design specifically calls for that type of recharging capability. Waste of room and resources.

Thats sorta like complaining that your brake pads only last 1,000 miles because you ride your brakes.

I'm not saying it's not a good concept. I'm saying electric vehicles aren't going to make much difference...because they just relocate the source of pollution from the tailpipe to the smokestack or the nuke waste dump.

 

[B. Kidd]

The Volt: All the comfort and style of a $15,000 econo car for a politcially correct $41,000 price tag.

You hit the nail on the proverbial head. Last year I bought a new 2009 Toyota Yaris off the lot for $12,500.00 w/ power windows, mirrors,etc.., 38-39 mpg, wasn't the stripped down version. The dealer told me that the Yaris 4-cyl. engine is the same engine used in the hybrid Toyota Prius, with only the batteries and electrical assist added on. At that time, the base price for a basic hybrid Prius, was $26,000.00., more than double the Yaris price for approx. 2 more miles per gallon.
The mark-up is ridiculous, for practically the same vehicle. Actually my Yaris is nicer than the base Prius. And I can tow my Yaris 4 wheels down behind my RV.

 

[Mad Scientist]

AVAILABLE NOW FROM $101,500* OR $1658/MO LEASE** WITH $9,900 DEPOSIT *Includes $7,500 Tax Incentive

My 2004 Doge Ram, which is paid for, gets about 18 mpg and I fill it up about 5-6 times a month. It usually takes a bout 20-22 gallons each fill up, that's about 60 bucks. Multiply that by 6, $360 a month, $4,320 a year.

That Tesla is $101,500 (Cars.com says 109,000 to 128,500) so with that money I would be able to fill up my truck, at todays' gas prices, for at least 23.5 years. Plus, I can haul and tow almost anything with my truck. Try that with that little Tesla suicide machine.

I think I'll wait for ten years or so for the technology to mature and prices to drop.

Crash-test Ratings, Recalls & Consumer Reviews for the 2010 Tesla Roadster

[youtube]R2b9aW1qE9E[/youtube]

 

[American Horse]

So where does the power in your wall sockets come from? Unicorn hugs?

Hydro electric.

try and build a dam
see how many enviro nuts try and stop you

The damage to the environment with the silt and heavy metals clean-up after make hydro more costly than coal by some accounts

 

[Truthmatters]

I dont know why so many on the right dont like to employ science while making decisions.

They love to just knee jerk decide

 

[Charles_Main]

I dont know why so many on the right dont like to employ science while making decisions.

They love to just knee jerk decide

LOL how very Ironic coming from you.

 

[Kat]

I dont know why so many on the right dont like to employ science while making decisions.

They love to just knee jerk decide

Why do you hate so much?

 

[Charles_Main]

Hydro electric.

try and build a dam
see how many enviro nuts try and stop you

The damage to the environment with the silt and heavy metals clean-up after make hydro more costly than coal by some accounts

New technology means we can produce Hydro Power with out Dams. Smaller free standing Turbines in Rivers, and in Areas to catch tidal forces can do the trick. You no longer need to damn up a river to use Hydro Electric power. Small Free standing turbines are already being put in NYC's East river. They can even be in a cage so no fish get into them.

 

[Truthmatters]

I dont know why so many on the right dont like to employ science while making decisions.

They love to just knee jerk decide

LOL how very Ironic coming from you.

It is the right who constantly denies science.

From global warming to evolution.

You rewrite history and spew hate on higher education all the time.

 

[RadiomanATL]

I dont know why so many on the right dont like to employ science while making decisions.

They love to just knee jerk decide

LOL how very Ironic coming from you.

It is the right who constantly denies science.

From global warming to evolution.

You rewrite history and spew hate on higher education all the time.

Meanwhile the righties on this thread are actually discussing the science and the impacts of different energy options while you prattle on about how they deny and don't like science.

Reality doesn't intrude into your worldview very often, does it?

 

[DiveCon]

LOL how very Ironic coming from you.

It is the right who constantly denies science.

From global warming to evolution.

You rewrite history and spew hate on higher education all the time.

Meanwhile the righties on this thread are actually discussing the science and the impacts of different energy options while you prattle on about how they deny and don't like science.

Reality doesn't intrude into your worldview very often, does it?

she is totally oblivious to reality

 

[American Horse]

try and build a dam
see how many enviro nuts try and stop you

The damage to the environment with the silt and heavy metals clean-up after make hydro more costly than coal by some accounts

New technology means we can produce Hydro Power with out Dams. Smaller free standing Turbines in Rivers, and in Areas to catch tidal forces can do the trick. You no longer need to damn up a river to use Hydro Electric power. Small Free standing turbines are already being put in NYC's East river. They can even be in a cage so no fish get into them.

These are interesting, that's for sure but their capacity for generation is small, and there is a tendency to want to enhance the systems by collecting and then diverting water through a pipe, to a waterwheel or turbine. That's because the ordinary speed flow of a river is not sufficient to generate sufficient quantities of electricity to justify the distribution system, so there is a compulsion to concentrate the water flow. After it turns the turbine it (the water) is returned to the stream. They seem to have approximately the capacity for generating electrical power as a wind turbine. However the flow of water is constant, which is a big advantage over wind. These would seem to be a good source of energy for some mountain towns, to supplement their regular purchases from larger somewhat remote power plants.

These are interesting, and ought to be encouraged by government grants and loans (FHA).

Your East River example is a tidal stream project, but that is confined to locations where tides raise water levels in estuaries on the coast. A case in point in Great Britain:

"The barrage will be a dam, a concrete barrier perforated with sluices and locks to let the tide push upriver, combined with a system of up to 300 underwater turbines built to spin on every falling tide. It’s not a new idea. An engineer named Thomas Fulljames first proposed a mile-long masonry barrage across the Severn in 1849, and other plans surfaced in the 1920s and 1970s, only to be rejected because of the cost."

 

[Gremlin-USA]

There they go denying science

Which science is that? The science that says the electricity in your wall socket that you plug your electric car into doesn't magically appear there, that it has to be generated somewhere else, with a 50/50 chance that it's derived from burning coal?

At the momment that may be true but alternatives exsist and will continue to be developed.

In the future you willl be able to plug your car into a meter in every parking place instead of a parking meter.

Charge while you park at work and at home.

If every house had solar and wind capability things would be VERY different.

Here is Covered Parking and a Recharger

.

 

[Charles_Main]

There they go denying science

What science?

Idiot.

The science that Proves 80% of our Electric Power comes from Fossil Fuels? Or the Science that shows that Electric cares are still very lacking in viability and at best a nitch item? Or How about the science that shows how incredibly Dirty making and disposing of batteries is?

Seems to me someone is denying science, and it is you.

We do not need solutions that sound good and make you feel good. we need Solutions that WORK!