Intellectual Dishonesty

[P@triot]

come now, wackadoodle, it's not like any trump loons are concerned with the deficit.

I can't speak on behalf of the "Trump loons". I can tell you however that I am every bit as concerned with the debt now as I was under Obama and I am extremely proud of President Trump for already cutting $65 billion from the deficit in just his first three months in office. That is exceptional and gives me hope that we can prevent economic collapse.

If Trump continues to operate like that and we get 8 years of him, we might actually see a dent in the national debt.

 

[mamooth]

Here we go again. After everyone starts laughing at her over this absurd lie, she will backtrack with "I was only kidding".

Here we go again. My sweet little snowflake bitch P@triot desperately asks me to address what his "Because I say so!" manifesto. And I do so in detail, and he melts down and runs.

The entire world knows that the right stands for limited government and maximum freedom

"The entire world" apparently being "P@triot's kook snowflake cult". The normal people know that the right is authoritarian to the core, as P@triot works to prove with every post.

Let's go over some of what what P@triot is running from.

Expanding the drug war and the prison state? The right.

Restricting voting rights? The right.

Slaughtering economic freedom and imposing socialist monopolies? The right.

Killing freedom on every social issue? The right.

Kissing up to the surveillaince state? The right.

If it's anti-freedom, P@triot and the right push it, and the left opposes it. The left stands for liberty, the right stands for authoritarianism.

And P@triot, where did you get the "Trump cut the deficit by $65 billion" fiction? Come on. We all know Trump and the Republicans will be exploding the deficits and tanking the economy, because it's what conservatives always do. And P@triot will be kissing the asses of all them for doing it, because mindlessly kissing Republican ass is what P@triot does.

 

[P@triot]

Expanding the drug war and the prison state? The right.

No snowflake - that is simply addressing criminal acts. We know how you embrace crime (like illegals crossing our borders) but civilized societies create and enforce laws.

Restricting voting rights? The right.

There is no right for dead people to vote. There is no right for Dumbocrats to vote multiple times in multiple districts. Nothing has been "restricted" except for crime.

Slaughtering economic freedom and imposing socialist monopolies? The right.

Once again, that is exclusively left-wing.

Killing freedom on every social issue? The right.

It's the left that tore up the U.S. Constitution. Not the right.

Kissing up to the surveillaince state? The right.

It's Barack Obama that expanded the surveillance state and the left that cheered it.

You just took a major ass-kicking in the facts department. Any other left-wing false narratives you would like to attempt? I would be glad to correct them all for you.

 

[mamooth]

No snowflake - that is simply addressing criminal acts. We know how you embrace crime (like illegals crossing our borders) but civilized societies create and enforce laws.

That's how every authoritarian regime justifies a prison state, by playing the law and order card.

There is no right for dead people to vote. There is no right for Dumbocrats to vote multiple times in multiple districts. Nothing has been "restricted" except for crime.

So you're just lying openly about vote fraud that doesn't exist at all. Authoritarian regimes do that as well, create false propaganda to justify their oppression.

Once again, that is exclusively left-wing.

No, the left keeps capitalism healthy by regulation. The right allows it to devolve into socialist crony corporate monopolies, an unholy alliance where corporations essentially become the government by purchasing politicians.

It's the left that tore up the U.S. Constitution. Not the right.

You're not even trying to defend your fascist record on social issues, I see.

It's Barack Obama that expanded the surveillance state and the left that cheered it.

That was a joint effort, and the left roundly criticized it. Compare that to now, when nobody on the right criticizes Trump.

You just took a major ass-kicking in the facts department. Any other left-wing false narratives you would like to attempt? I would be glad to correct them all for you.

Snowflake, you still haven't grasped that your "because I say so!" rants don't define reality. That's what makes you so funny. You're just too stupid to learn.

 

[P@triot]

And P@triot, where did you get the "Trump cut the deficit by $65 billion" fiction? Come on.

Oops....my bad. You are correct - that was fiction. President Trump did not cut $65 billion from the debt. He cut $68 billion in his first 50 days. More than $1 billion per day.

– Trump has cut the U.S. debt burden by $68 billion dollars.

Since the day of his inauguration, Trump has wiped $68 billion off the national debt, which had ballooned to $19,947 billion under Obama.

Trump’s Accomplishments: The First 50 Days

* Making mamooth my personal bitch since August 17, 2012

 

[P@triot]

No snowflake - that is simply addressing criminal acts. We know how you embrace crime (like illegals crossing our borders) but civilized societies create and enforce laws.

That's how every authoritarian regime justifies a prison state, by playing the law and order card.

Not at all. The left-wing authoritarians (Joseph Stalin, Vladimir Lenin, Adolf Hitler) never feel the need to "justify" anything and they never do. The left just acts - and always against the law. Not in favor of it.

 

[P@triot]

So you're just lying openly about vote fraud that doesn't exist at all.

Poor little snowflake here is "triggered" by the fact that the American reject his bat-shit crazy authoritarian ideology and elected Donald Trump President of the United States.

No, voter fraud isn’t a myth: 10 cases where it’s all too real

Illegal Immigrant Charged With Voter Fraud

Hundreds could be investigated in NH for voter fraud during 2016 election | NH1

These Cases Prove the Left Is Wrong to Dismiss Voter Fraud

3 Examples of Voter Fraud Across US

8 Instances of Voter Fraud Ahead of Election Day

Once again the facts prove you're a liar and I make you my personal bitch. I can provide hundreds of links outlining thousands of cases of voter fraud. You can't provide a single credible link of even one case where a legal U.S. citizen who was properly registered was denied their voting rights.

 

[P@triot]

No, the left keeps capitalism healthy by regulation.

Bwahahahahaha! She just admitted that the left is responsible for socialism (as if that even required "admitting"). If it's "regulated" by government then it's not capitalism, snowflake. Regulation is just the term you left-wing idiots use instead of "authoritarianism". Adolf Hitler was just "regulating" religion according to you people!

 

[mamooth]

Sweet jeebus, four consecutive replies to my one post? Poor P@triot is going off the rails.

So, an article about a debt reduction that had nothing to do with Trump. P@triot, why did you pretend Trump caused it? Anything concerning the debt has been on autopilot since Obama left. If the debt dropped, that credit goes to Obama.

Then you gave us some links to crazy right wing sources pretending vote fraud existed. Most of it breathless hysteria about vote fraud that theyr'e sure must happen. A few actual stories, with most of the vote fraud by conservatives.

Nobody ever said zero vote fraud happens. We point out that the tiny numbers of it don't justify stopping millions of legal voters from voting. Being that we're into liberty, we liberals don't think that so many Republicans getting caught in vote fraud means it should be illegal for all Republicans to vote.

And by the way, what happened to Trump's promise to investigate the supposed vote fraud? It seems even your Fuerher knows the story was bullshit. Just look how he turned tail and ran. He's so good at that, as are you.

Then you had some rants about how much you hate me for laughing at you, and how much you hate liberals for opposing your authoritarianism. Get used to it. We're not going to stop opposing tyranny just because some snowflakes cry at us.

Well done!

Now see how many posts you can spew. Maybe go for 5 this time. Or even 6. Be bold!

 

[bripat9643]

Words such as liberal, liberty, libertarian, and libertine all trace their history to the Latin liber, which means "free".
Liberalism - Wikipedia

The question for you is,
what don't you understand?

I don't understand your naive belief that everyone uses words honestly, especially douche bags like self-styled "liberals."

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[bripat9643]

Poor P@triot. Even though he didn't call me out by name, this still counts as a callout thread. And by the rules, anyone making a callout thread admits to being a butthurt loser.

The backstory: P@triot keeps "proving" the Nazis were leftists by unilaterally declaring that all freedom is by definition conservative, and that all authoritarianism is by definition liberal. He simply defines his own side as virtuous, and the other side as demonic. Easy to "win" when you just define yourself as the winner.

I mocked his dishonesty by flipping it on its head. Instead of addressing his own dishonesty, he squealed that my satire of him was "lying".

P@triot, me ripping apart your lies with satire is not lying. Instead of crying at me more, how about you address the point I made?

That point would be that your "More liberty means more conservative" line is a big steaming pile, one that you haven't even attempted to back up. Every time I ask, you just repeat the same mantra again, and then fail to back it up again. I get it. You can't back it up. By now everyone sees that.

So you claim "liberals" believe in freedom? Can you name the last issue or piece of legislation where they supported freedom?

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[bripat9643]

Political scientists and other analysts regard the Left as including anarchists,[16][17] communists, socialists and social democrats,[18] left-libertarians, progressives, and social liberals.[19][20] Movements for racial equality are also usually linked with left-wing organizations.[21] Trade unionism is also associated with the left.[22]

Political scientists and other analysts regard the Right as including Christian democrats, classical liberals, conservatives, right-libertarians,[23]neoconservatives, imperialists, monarchists,[24] fascists,[25] reactionaries, and traditionalists.

Left–right politics - Wikipedia

The phrase "left libertarian" is an oxymoron. There is no creature.

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[mamooth]

Can you name the last issue or piece of legislation where they supported freedom?

A quick example, liberals supported Net Neutrality, which prevented net censorship by internet providers. Conservatives want to kill that, and all of them support allowing censorship.

The amusing thing will be how almost all conservatives will now declare that black is white, and that a law preventing censorship is censorship. Authoritarians have to pretend black is white, because all of their policies are so disgusting.

 

[bripat9643]

Abortion, drug laws and LGBTQ issues. Left of conservatism.

Those are all right of conservatism as libertarians believe government has no business being involved. Those just happened to the the three items in the world that the left-wingers don't want government preventing.

Here you go you vintage example of intellectual dishonesty:

As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.

We believe that respect for individual rights is the essential precondition for a free and prosperous world, that force and fraud must be banished from human relationships, and that only through freedom can peace and prosperity be realized.

2016 Platform | Libertarian Party

Well you are wrong, but the liberal in me doesn't care. You are free to believe whatever you want. Your mind is obviously made up.

I will agree with you to an extent. Liberals today have been neutered. They don't fill the classic role of the left in resisting oppressive power structures, which is clearly present in the U.S. today in the form of corporate tyranny.

The left is the power structure
The left controls the bureaucracy, the judiciary, the academy, Hollywood and the press.

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[bripat9643]

Can you name the last issue or piece of legislation where they supported freedom?

A quick example, liberals supported Net Neutrality, which prevented net censorship by internet providers. Conservatives want to kill that, and all of them support allowing censorship.

The amusing thing will be how almost all conservatives will now declare that black is white, and that a law preventing censorship is censorship. Authoritarians have to pretend black is white, because all of their policies are so disgusting.

Net neutrality was just a scam designed to give government control over the Internet. It's a massive increase in government.

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[The Original Tree]

Libertarianism is Right Of Conservatism.

People are clueless. Half of you have no business discussing Geopolitics on this forum.

 

[bripat9643]

Libertarianism is Right Of Conservatism.

People are clueless. Half of you have no business discussing Geopolitics on this forum.

Snowflakes can only regurgitate leftwing talking points. They have no real understanding of what they're discussing. Most of them couldn't explain the laws of supply and demand or the marginal return on the factors of production.

 

[Tehon]

Words such as liberal, liberty, libertarian, and libertine all trace their history to the Latin liber, which means "free".
Liberalism - Wikipedia

The question for you is,
what don't you understand?

I don't understand your naive belief that everyone uses words honestly, especially douche bags like self-styled "liberals."

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It is not a naive belief. The topic was framed in the context of being theoretical. That is the context that I responded to and that you cut out to make a point for yourself. Proving that intellectual dishonesty isn't only relegated to so called liberals.

The phrase "left libertarian" is an oxymoron. There is no creature.

You didn't click the link did you? Ideas don't exist on a straight line from left to right. For example, Marx's vision of communism culminated in a Stateless society. Is that not libertarian?

The left is the power structure
The left controls the bureaucracy, the judiciary, the academy, Hollywood and the press.

The press is corporate. The bureaucracy, judiciary and academy all compete for the same corporate dollars. Even Hollywood plays its part in glamorizing war hero's and patriotism. Our governmental policy makers are dominated by corporations. Corporate lobbyists write our laws FFS.

The left serves the role of lending legitimacy to the power structure which is in fact dominated by corporations. This is easily demonstrated by Hillary Clinton's emails in which she speaks candidly about holding two positions. One private, one public. Despite this revelation , the entire weight of the Democrat machine stood behind her as well did most of the devotees of the party thereby giving tacit acceptance to corporate dominance of the liberal class.

 

[emilynghiem]

Words such as liberal, liberty, libertarian, and libertine all trace their history to the Latin liber, which means "free".
Liberalism - Wikipedia

The question for you is,
what don't you understand?

I can call myself a polar bear. Does that make me a polar bear? The left is anti-liberty, authoritarian. Let me ask you something snowflake - the government mandating that I carry health insurance - is that "freedom" to you?

Everything the left does involve growing government and controlling the people by forcing them to adhere to the left-wing ideology. That's an indisputable fact, snowflake.

Dear P@triot
the BEST explanation historically of where this pattern comes from, Lt. Col Allen West described the history in his book on Guardians of the Republic.

He described the historical split between
* Classic liberals, (A) following Locke
* Radical liberals, (B) following Rousseau

(A) became today's conservatives, framing the laws as LIMITING govt and maximizing the liberty and power of the people without govt interference especially federal. At most you might see state sovereignty over personal or even religious issues, but not federal govt having that authority.

(B) became today's liberals, using laws and govt to ESTABLISH the collective good or will of the people

For example, Booker T Washington was one of the old school CONSERVATIVE black leaders preaching equal ownership and empowerment.
but DUBOIS was one of the LIBERALS pushing for political rights "through govt".
Instead of the "conservative" belief that rights are inherent in human nature (ie given by God) and DO NOT DEPEND ON GOVT.

That's where the biggest split is.

The conservatives tend to use faith in God religion or church to get authority as the default, and then the state is supposed to follow and complement that authority.

The liberals tend NOT to relate to organized religion so they don't have this same power base; thus, they rely on using the GOVT as the central/uniform basis of power and policy for the people where conservatives use the church for that.

If secular people don't use church to organize resources and empower independent development and social programs, it makes sense they would turn to the state to provide that support in order for "the public to have equal protection and access."

Two totally different philosophies and BELIEFS.

That's why I'm thinking: why not treat political parties as political religions, recognize and let people represent themselves through the "denomination" of their choice.

And keep these BELIEFS out of govt, treating political beliefs as sensitive as religious beliefs: neither establishing nor prohibiting them but keeping govt and public policy NEUTRAL, neither adopting nor rejecting one bias or the other.

 

[emilynghiem]

Libertarianism is Right Of Conservatism.

People are clueless. Half of you have no business discussing Geopolitics on this forum.

Snowflakes can only regurgitate leftwing talking points. They have no real understanding of what they're discussing. Most of them couldn't explain the laws of supply and demand or the marginal return on the factors of production.

Maybe that is not their role in the social ecosystem bripat9643
I would not expect a musical artist to explain quantum physics rocket science.

Nor would I expect a nuclear physicist or sustainable energy nerd to don a tutu and be able to explain the difference in dance terms between a jete and a fouette.

Why can't we organize people by fields of expertise or study, by interests and agenda they want to focus on, and work on solutions like departments in a University. then connect each dept or university to other similar groups with the same interests and resources to invest in each field?

Do we REALLY expect just ONE candidate or ONE party to have ALL THE ANSWERS to every field and application of policy out there?
Seriously?

When they give out Nobel Prizes, there are different area of expertise and winning solutions that change the world.

Why can't we do the same and DELEGATE which groups or parties, which leaders or solutions, are best for EACH area and quit trying to dominate the entire field. As if we can really cover it all without collaborating across party lines.

Why not be honest about THAT?

We need 50 states to have independent democratic representation in order to defend those interest of their respective populations.

Why not have a similar parliamentary system of parties to represent those interests and populations? where they govern themselves as much as possible and not impose on other parties treated equally as sovereign over their own memberships governed democratically.

There will probably be fewer parties than there are states, so wouldn't that work better? To consolidate representation by common areas and interest, then collaborate from there. Wouldn't we get more done by being HONEST that we have these differences, and working with those areas instead of competing for domination.