Institutionalized racism... or are blacks just less employable?

[Trajan]

I would say that poor black folk in "inner cities" across the USA display no more or less an "aversion" to "academic excellence" than any other race/ethnicity in this country.....

be that as it may that seems to be the thinking of many black scholars.......and what difference does it make, we aren't discussing them. In the end its destructive no matter the skew.

You ask a question, I gave you an answer, and you don't say the answer is wrong, you say "it doesn't matter".
So please tell me, what answer can I give that "does matter" that you approve of? Seems you readily equate my answer with Black scholars (flattering, but not accurate....anyone who is honest and READS can give the same answer), yet you dismiss them in order to put forth an assertion. So in effective, you weren't interested in my answer, you just needed an excuse to blurt our your preconceived notions.


frankly, I don't remember that being the case in my experience, in fact the few mini vinie goombahs took their lunch money and messed around with them but respected kids who displayed smarts and were far less aggressively anti education than the point being made/discussed.

Pay attention: I wasn't talking about your personal experiences...I was referring to how our society has historically ACKNOWLEDGED groups of folk who fit the bill YOU assigned solely to black folk. And what I find hysterical is your knee jerk defense of non-black thuggish activity while assigning merit and insinuating no such thing exists for black people on the same level. Clearly, your sheet is showing beneath your suit of rationality.



so is this a ward connerly shout out? Or ?

No genius, it's a statement of DOCUMENTED FACT born of generations of immigrants who changed their names in order to "assimilate" and become upwardly mobile in a society run by Anglo-Saxons descended from the British Empire. Obviously, you slept through the classes on the Great Immigration in American history.

Also, the Dead End Kids, Jets, wise guys didn't have the stigma of several centuries of slavery and Jim Crow to exaccerbate their situation.

that stigma 'exacerbateing' the situation is less and less and less every decade...so how many decades do you think will have to go by before that is no longer viable?

You tell me....folk like you are STILL trying to deny the effects and results of a few centuries of slavery and a century of Jim Crow. Were 47 years out of that nonsense....and we STILL have jokers trying to rewrite/deny history, fighting the Civil War for the Confederacy, denying housing and jobs when they can, etc. But do keep it coming, my pointed hooded Trajan....making fools of bigots with delusions of intelligence is a guilty pleasure of mine.

I think you've got a lot more than a guilty pleasure going on, pick up the phone, Mr. Jealous is on the line, he needs some copy written, good luck.........

 

[taichiliberal]

be that as it may that seems to be the thinking of many black scholars.......and what difference does it make, we aren't discussing them. In the end its destructive no matter the skew.

You ask a question, I gave you an answer, and you don't say the answer is wrong, you say "it doesn't matter".
So please tell me, what answer can I give that "does matter" that you approve of? Seems you readily equate my answer with Black scholars (flattering, but not accurate....anyone who is honest and READS can give the same answer), yet you dismiss them in order to put forth an assertion. So in effective, you weren't interested in my answer, you just needed an excuse to blurt our your preconceived notions.


frankly, I don't remember that being the case in my experience, in fact the few mini vinie goombahs took their lunch money and messed around with them but respected kids who displayed smarts and were far less aggressively anti education than the point being made/discussed.

Pay attention: I wasn't talking about your personal experiences...I was referring to how our society has historically ACKNOWLEDGED groups of folk who fit the bill YOU assigned solely to black folk. And what I find hysterical is your knee jerk defense of non-black thuggish activity while assigning merit and insinuating no such thing exists for black people on the same level. Clearly, your sheet is showing beneath your suit of rationality.



so is this a ward connerly shout out? Or ?

No genius, it's a statement of DOCUMENTED FACT born of generations of immigrants who changed their names in order to "assimilate" and become upwardly mobile in a society run by Anglo-Saxons descended from the British Empire. Obviously, you slept through the classes on the Great Immigration in American history.



that stigma 'exacerbateing' the situation is less and less and less every decade...so how many decades do you think will have to go by before that is no longer viable?

You tell me....folk like you are STILL trying to deny the effects and results of a few centuries of slavery and a century of Jim Crow. Were 47 years out of that nonsense....and we STILL have jokers trying to rewrite/deny history, fighting the Civil War for the Confederacy, denying housing and jobs when they can, etc. But do keep it coming, my pointed hooded Trajan....making fools of bigots with delusions of intelligence is a guilty pleasure of mine.

I think you've got a lot more than a guilty pleasure going on, pick up the phone, Mr. Jealous is on the line, he needs some copy written, good luck.........

Translation: Trajan just got his poser intellectual racism kicked to the curb and he doesn't like it...so Trajan does what every defeated prejudiced parrot with delusions of grandeur does...spew sour grapes like a child. Well, I'm done with this sheet wearer....let's watch him repeat the SOS, make new lies and accusations allegations.

 

[Trajan]

You tell me....folk like you are STILL trying to deny the effects and results of a few centuries of slavery and a century of Jim Crow. Were 47 years out of that nonsense....and we STILL have jokers trying to rewrite/deny history, fighting the Civil War for the Confederacy, denying housing and jobs when they can, etc. But do keep it coming, my pointed hooded Trajan....making fools of bigots with delusions of intelligence is a guilty pleasure of mine.

I think you've got a lot more than a guilty pleasure going on, pick up the phone, Mr. Jealous is on the line, he needs some copy written, good luck.........

Translation: Trajan just got his poser intellectual racism kicked to the curb and he doesn't like it...so Trajan does what every defeated prejudiced parrot with delusions of grandeur does...spew sour grapes like a child. Well, I'm done with this sheet wearer....let's watch him repeat the SOS, make new lies and accusations allegations.

translation; TCL has triumphed again, his bellicose, boorish verbosity has derailed another thread, as to why the black race in America has hit a wall.
Some of your excuses and justifications, talk about picking flys out of gnat shit, you can sell that to the Marin Cty ladies auxiliary, not me, go find another 'mark'.

Whats pathetic about this is 20 or so years from now you'll be peddling the same bombast and victimization vitriol when the Hispanic/latino demographic has continued on and has then completely swamped the black race in every conceivable metric worth quantifying...... give yourself a 'hand'...

 

[IanC]

taichiliberal- after re-reading the Chomsky article, there are quite a few interesting points that are worth discussing. But first I would like to hear your reasoning as to how it refutes the APA statement.

This excerpt encapsulates my point:


[Moreover], the question of the relation, if any, between race and intelligence has very little scientific importance (as it has no social importance, except under the assumptions of a racist society) … As to social importance, a correlation between race and mean I.Q. (were this shown to exist) entails no social consequences except in a racist society in which each individual is assigned to a racial category and dealt with not as an individual in his own right, but as a representative of this category … In a non-racist society, the category of race would be of no greater significance [than height]. The mean I.Q. of individuals of a certain racial background is irrelevant to the situation of a particular individual, who is what he is. Recognizing this perfectly obvious fact, we are left with little, if any, plausible justification for an interest in the relation between mean I.Q. and race, apart from the ‘justification’ provided by the existence of racial discrimination.

As per usual you add nothing in your own words so I really don't have any indications as to the depth of your understanding of the article.

scientific importance- while racial IQ averages have less validity for any single individual, the group characteristics are measurable and lead to predictions over a host of social traits.

social importance- while individual overall ability, with IQ as an important subset of that, should be the most important factor for judging a person's employability there is still a need to help the disadvantaged and underachieving to maximize their potential. That is why affirmative action programs were put in place.

Because there are measurable physical and mental differences (genetics), as well as behavioural differences (genetics and culture), this leads to environmental differences that will never be equalized between races even with massive wealth and opportunity transfers. As soon as the system stops the transfers the disparate outcomes re-emerge.


My personal opinion is that there are two main threshholds for intelligence. The first at roughly IQ85 where individuals can absorb most of K-12 education and become trainable for jobs in a technological society. The second at roughly IQ105 where individuals can absorb post secondary knowledge and become able to manage technology (maintain and upgrade). An analogy is that of child, adolescent and adult, judged by maturity rather than chronology.

 

[IanC]

You tell me....folk like you are STILL trying to deny the effects and results of a few centuries of slavery and a century of Jim Crow. Were 47 years out of that nonsense....and we STILL have jokers trying to rewrite/deny history, fighting the Civil War for the Confederacy, denying housing and jobs when they can, etc. But do keep it coming, my pointed hooded Trajan....making fools of bigots with delusions of intelligence is a guilty pleasure of mine.

Why do jokers like YOU treat the effects of slavery as inheritable, while denying the heritabilty of obviously genetic traits?

Do you consider blacks as unalterably damaged because of slavery? How many generations will it take? Surely black culture itself is the main problem for the propagation of self defeating behaviours. When will blacks drop the victim mentality and get on with progress? White society will surely help but you seem disinclined to move forward.

 

[Conspiracist]

When the unemployment rate rose last month, the pain wasn't spread evenly.

There is always statistical noise in month-to-month changes in the labor market, but some patterns are clear. Black workers still have a far higher unemployment rate than other groups measured by the Labor Department. And the gap appears to be widening. In August it hit 16.3 percent after being 15.6 in July.

For whites, the unemployment rate was 8.7 percent in August, up from 8.6 percent.

The Associated Press: Economy 101: Jobless rate widens for black workers

They are much less desired as employees. I know I do not hold them in high regards as coworkers because typically the more blacks that are hired into a place, the more rules the employees become forced to endure while those that the rules were made for are fired or just long gone. They are commonly exploiters of small benefits a company offers and take full advantage of everything and wind up forcing a company to reduce those small benefits a white workforce would enjoy for many years.

 

[code1211]

Please spare us all your bullshit and just answer the question......how on earth did you determine that black people are not "assimilated" in a country where they've been for a few centuries? How do we have no "individualistic initiative" or pride in "not achieving" when not only did we survive generations of slavery and Jim Crow perpetraited by folks with your mindset, but come to be represented in significant numbers in the profession I previously mentioned?

So put up or shut up, bunky....and spare us all another parroting of your previous smokescreen. I know I shouldn't humiliate ignorant people in public...but when you white supremacist try to be "intelligent" about your bigotry, it's just a guilty pleasure that I'm sure God will forgive me for indulging.

Thank you for finally including the part of the quote that you edited out. I have highlighted it in Blue above. I was wondering about why the Black population supports the Democrat Party in such strong majorities in spite of the many years of devotion and the long list of things left to accomplish.

Will you stop acting silly? In all the responses were I captioned your quote I included reference to the lines in blue that didn't change the meaning of your pondering in way, shape or form. So when I get the exact quote, the best you can do is just parrot the SOS that I've discussed, deconstructed, dismantled, disproved and derrided in several previous posts. Seems you're just blowing smoke as usual, but the chronology of the posts will always be your undoing.

Apparently, I was wrong. Apparently, there is no long list of things left to accomplish. The passion of your response and the name calling reveal that the result of the loyalty of the Black population to the Democrat Party has produced for them a Utopian environment including respect from all parts of society, great economic success, complete assimilation into the society's mainstream and has completely eliminated the need for any additional work to correct the wrongs of the past.

Apparently, as the chronology of the posts shows, you're full of it....plain and simple. You make these statements, and when I take them apart to the point where you have no logical retort, you just babble the already disproven points like a parrot on speed. You're attempt to condescend would have some weight if the posts didn't already show your inability to respond in a logical and honest fashion.

You have opened my eyes and I now accept that the Black population voting for the Democrat Party as a block has produced the results they wanted and that the Democrat party has acted with both integrity and energy to justify that support.

I am glad to know that the Civil Rights Struggle is over. Thank you.

And there you have it folks.......another intellectually bankrupt sheet wearer professing his delusions....pity the chronology of the posts makes out this CODE to be a liar every time. I leave him to his folly and the last predictable set of lies.

By leaving the initial clause out of the original quote, you changed the meaning and you assert that you don't see the difference? Disingenuous at best.

Did you EVER address the question? Why do Blacks vote in such majorities for the Democrat Party when the many decades of loyalty has still not addressed their needs?

I am stating a fact and you are ignoring the fact and taking off on a flight of fancy apparently wishing that I was asking something else.

Let's make this simple:

1. Do you believe that racial equality for blacks has been achieved in all aspects of society?
2. Is there any work left to do to achieve racial equality?
3. Has the improvement of the status of Blacks in America measured by whatever standards you would like to set justified the massive majorities of Blacks voting for the Democrat Party given the lack of spectacular results?

These are not racially charged questions. They are a political questions. You can actually answer them without referance to racial tensions or racism. That is, you can if you see the world first as a person and only marginally as a racist.

 

[code1211]

This excerpt encapsulates my point:


[Moreover], the question of the relation, if any, between race and intelligence has very little scientific importance (as it has no social importance, except under the assumptions of a racist society) … As to social importance, a correlation between race and mean I.Q. (were this shown to exist) entails no social consequences except in a racist society in which each individual is assigned to a racial category and dealt with not as an individual in his own right, but as a representative of this category … In a non-racist society, the category of race would be of no greater significance [than height]. The mean I.Q. of individuals of a certain racial background is irrelevant to the situation of a particular individual, who is what he is. Recognizing this perfectly obvious fact, we are left with little, if any, plausible justification for an interest in the relation between mean I.Q. and race, apart from the ‘justification’ provided by the existence of racial discrimination.

There is always the consideration of measuring results to determine if previous actions have made any impact.

Sorry to inform you that your generalized statement here does not apply to the specifics that Chomsky has laid out. What you do is typical of propagandist...you take a sentence out of context and try to treat it as a sole focus/point of the presentation you are trying to discredit. You fail here, because one can easily read what criteria Chomsky is "recognizing" in order to substantiate his assertion.

If you were to examine the efforts of the many who have addressed racial inequality, what would you measure to determine success or failure of the efforts?

Pay attention:
As to social importance, a correlation between race and mean I.Q. (were this shown to exist) entails no social consequences except in a racist society in which each individual is assigned to a racial category and dealt with not as an individual in his own right, but as a representative of this category … In a non-racist society, the category of race would be of no greater significance [than height]. The mean I.Q. of individuals of a certain racial background is irrelevant to the situation of a particular individual, who is what he is.

Obviously, you either cannot or intentionally do not want to comprehend what this ENTIRE PARAGRAPH is stating. Instead, you insist upon regurgitating the exact same premise that Chomsky logically dismisses. Not surprising, as the propaganda of white supremacists often depends upon the repetiton of one particular set of facts or statements while excluding all other facts, statements and information....especially that which contradicts the white supremacists/bigots beliefs.

Carry on.

*sigh*

You see all things only as a racist would see them. My comment on that was as a manager would review a program geared to produce a given result. Whatever the goal result might have been, the actual result must be measured against it.

Your verbal flailing is unproductive.

The last question is once again ignored by you as you strive to label instead of discuss. In my life and career, a critical review of process and results against the planned goals has always helped to re-shape my efforts. Sometimes, both my efforts and my goals.

What if anything would you measure to determine the success or failure of these or any social programs? Is measurement of any kind automatically racist?

I'm becoming more interested in your thought process than in your conclusions.

 

[taichiliberal]

taichiliberal- after re-reading the Chomsky article, there are quite a few interesting points that are worth discussing. But first I would like to hear your reasoning as to how it refutes the APA statement.

This excerpt encapsulates my point:


[Moreover], the question of the relation, if any, between race and intelligence has very little scientific importance (as it has no social importance, except under the assumptions of a racist society) … As to social importance, a correlation between race and mean I.Q. (were this shown to exist) entails no social consequences except in a racist society in which each individual is assigned to a racial category and dealt with not as an individual in his own right, but as a representative of this category … In a non-racist society, the category of race would be of no greater significance [than height]. The mean I.Q. of individuals of a certain racial background is irrelevant to the situation of a particular individual, who is what he is. Recognizing this perfectly obvious fact, we are left with little, if any, plausible justification for an interest in the relation between mean I.Q. and race, apart from the ‘justification’ provided by the existence of racial discrimination.

As per usual you add nothing in your own words so I really don't have any indications as to the depth of your understanding of the article.

As usual, you don't deal with the response because it gives no quarter for you to insert you mantra...it's evident you just don't or won't comprehend what the man is saying. So it looks like I'll have to dumb it down for you.

scientific importance- while racial IQ averages have less validity for any single individual, the group characteristics are measurable and lead to predictions over a host of social traits.

scientific importance- In a non-racist society, the category of race would be of no greater significance [than height]. The mean I.Q. of individuals of a certain racial background is irrelevant to the situation of a particular individual, who is what he is.

social importance- while individual overall ability, with IQ as an important subset of that, should be the most important factor for judging a person's employability there is still a need to help the disadvantaged and underachieving to maximize their potential. That is why affirmative action programs were put in place.

social importance - a correlation between race and mean I.Q. (were this shown to exist) entails no social consequences except in a racist society in which each individual is assigned to a racial category and dealt with not as an individual in his own right, but as a representative of this category

Because there are measurable physical and mental differences (genetics), as well as behavioural differences (genetics and culture), this leads to environmental differences that will never be equalized between races even with massive wealth and opportunity transfers. As soon as the system stops the transfers the disparate outcomes re-emerge.

Because there are measurable physical differences, the racist will pretend that a historical systematic exclusion and degredating treatment of a group because of those differences is irrelevent when measuring mental differences. People from different cultures intially have different ways of measuring "intelligence", so the conquering/dominant group can assign what is "relevent". Assumptions and theories that spring from this level of deniability only hold merit with like minded bigots and racists


My personal opinion is that there are two main threshholds for intelligence. The first at roughly IQ85 where individuals can absorb most of K-12 education and become trainable for jobs in a technological society. The second at roughly IQ105 where individuals can absorb post secondary knowledge and become able to manage technology (maintain and upgrade). An analogy is that of child, adolescent and adult, judged by maturity rather than chronology.

Your personal opinion is irrelevent, as it is based on a willful ignorance and a level of deniability of basic historical facts and information that contradicts your beliefs. Chomsky call it right....you just don't like (or you don't understand it).

 

[taichiliberal]

You tell me....folk like you are STILL trying to deny the effects and results of a few centuries of slavery and a century of Jim Crow. Were 47 years out of that nonsense....and we STILL have jokers trying to rewrite/deny history, fighting the Civil War for the Confederacy, denying housing and jobs when they can, etc. But do keep it coming, my pointed hooded Trajan....making fools of bigots with delusions of intelligence is a guilty pleasure of mine.

Why do jokers like YOU treat the effects of slavery as inheritable, while denying the heritabilty of obviously genetic traits?

Once again, you lie......YOU are saying the effects of slavery are "inherited"....I have FACTUALLY pointed out that they are ON-GOING and persistent. THAT is what you and all the other clownish racist "intellectuals" desperately ignore. Beyond the physical Your "obvious" genetic traits are based on your oft repeated white supremacist mantras that have been disproven time and again, as I sourced in earlier posts. You'll just keep repeating your nonsense ad nauseum...which is all bigots do.

Do you consider blacks as unalterably damaged because of slavery? How many generations will it take? Surely black culture itself is the main problem for the propagation of self defeating behaviours. When will blacks drop the victim mentality and get on with progress? White society will surely help but you seem disinclined to move forward.

Do you deny the FACTS that I previously pointed out? To date, you have steadfastly REFUSED to acknowledge point for point what I put forth. You can't deny it, so you ignore it and continually just parrot your mantras....that is all racist have....you don't debate, you just use any response as an excuse to repeat your BS in any form possible. But as the chronology of the posts shows your folly, you just look foolish.

 

[taichiliberal]

There is always the consideration of measuring results to determine if previous actions have made any impact.

Sorry to inform you that your generalized statement here does not apply to the specifics that Chomsky has laid out. What you do is typical of propagandist...you take a sentence out of context and try to treat it as a sole focus/point of the presentation you are trying to discredit. You fail here, because one can easily read what criteria Chomsky is "recognizing" in order to substantiate his assertion.

If you were to examine the efforts of the many who have addressed racial inequality, what would you measure to determine success or failure of the efforts?

Pay attention:
As to social importance, a correlation between race and mean I.Q. (were this shown to exist) entails no social consequences except in a racist society in which each individual is assigned to a racial category and dealt with not as an individual in his own right, but as a representative of this category … In a non-racist society, the category of race would be of no greater significance [than height]. The mean I.Q. of individuals of a certain racial background is irrelevant to the situation of a particular individual, who is what he is.

Obviously, you either cannot or intentionally do not want to comprehend what this ENTIRE PARAGRAPH is stating. Instead, you insist upon regurgitating the exact same premise that Chomsky logically dismisses. Not surprising, as the propaganda of white supremacists often depends upon the repetiton of one particular set of facts or statements while excluding all other facts, statements and information....especially that which contradicts the white supremacists/bigots beliefs.

Carry on.

*sigh*

You see all things only as a racist would see them. My comment on that was as a manager would review a program geared to produce a given result. Whatever the goal result might have been, the actual result must be measured against it.

Your verbal flailing is unproductive.

The last question is once again ignored by you as you strive to label instead of discuss. In my life and career, a critical review of process and results against the planned goals has always helped to re-shape my efforts. Sometimes, both my efforts and my goals.

What if anything would you measure to determine the success or failure of these or any social programs? Is measurement of any kind automatically racist?

I'm becoming more interested in your thought process than in your conclusions.

Notice folks, how this clown avoids dealing directly with what Chomsky states. Instead, he just keeps repeating his personal opinion and continuing as if nothing has been offered in rebuttal.

This is the typical pattern for intellectually bankrupt white supremacists.....they just ignore what they don't like and claim it's irrelevent. Mind you, they can't and won't logically explain why the information is irrelevent...that would entail addressing the facts and statements presented, and that might lead the reader to conclude that the white supremacist was wrong in their assertions.

Code won't deal with what Chomsky states.....which is his undoing. Let's watch him lie, accuse and parrot his disproven supposition and conjecture ad nauseum.

 

[IanC]

You tell me....folk like you are STILL trying to deny the effects and results of a few centuries of slavery and a century of Jim Crow. Were 47 years out of that nonsense....and we STILL have jokers trying to rewrite/deny history, fighting the Civil War for the Confederacy, denying housing and jobs when they can, etc. But do keep it coming, my pointed hooded Trajan....making fools of bigots with delusions of intelligence is a guilty pleasure of mine.

Why do jokers like YOU treat the effects of slavery as inheritable, while denying the heritabilty of obviously genetic traits?

Once again, you lie......YOU are saying the effects of slavery are "inherited"....I have FACTUALLY pointed out that they are ON-GOING and persistent. THAT is what you and all the other clownish racist "intellectuals" desperately ignore. Beyond the physical Your "obvious" genetic traits are based on your oft repeated white supremacist mantras that have been disproven time and again, as I sourced in earlier posts. You'll just keep repeating your nonsense ad nauseum...which is all bigots do.

Do you consider blacks as unalterably damaged because of slavery? How many generations will it take? Surely black culture itself is the main problem for the propagation of self defeating behaviours. When will blacks drop the victim mentality and get on with progress? White society will surely help but you seem disinclined to move forward.

Do you deny the FACTS that I previously pointed out? To date, you have steadfastly REFUSED to acknowledge point for point what I put forth. You can't deny it, so you ignore it and continually just parrot your mantras....that is all racist have....you don't debate, you just use any response as an excuse to repeat your BS in any form possible. But as the chronology of the posts shows your folly, you just look foolish.

the problem is....you don't actually state your points or facts. please state two or three concise points to debate. rather than just make general statements that are open to redefinition when the argument is going badly for you.

perhaps you would like to state precisely a few of the 'on-going effects of slavery' that I am ignoring.

 

[IanC]

Code won't deal with what Chomsky states.....which is his undoing. Let's watch him lie, accuse and parrot his disproven supposition and conjecture ad nauseum.

I would be more than happy to discuss the Chomsky article. Pick an idea out, restate it in your own words, and we can have at it.

 

[taichiliberal]

Why do jokers like YOU treat the effects of slavery as inheritable, while denying the heritabilty of obviously genetic traits?

Once again, you lie......YOU are saying the effects of slavery are "inherited"....I have FACTUALLY pointed out that they are ON-GOING and persistent. THAT is what you and all the other clownish racist "intellectuals" desperately ignore. Beyond the physical Your "obvious" genetic traits are based on your oft repeated white supremacist mantras that have been disproven time and again, as I sourced in earlier posts. You'll just keep repeating your nonsense ad nauseum...which is all bigots do.

Do you consider blacks as unalterably damaged because of slavery? How many generations will it take? Surely black culture itself is the main problem for the propagation of self defeating behaviours. When will blacks drop the victim mentality and get on with progress? White society will surely help but you seem disinclined to move forward.

Do you deny the FACTS that I previously pointed out? To date, you have steadfastly REFUSED to acknowledge point for point what I put forth. You can't deny it, so you ignore it and continually just parrot your mantras....that is all racist have....you don't debate, you just use any response as an excuse to repeat your BS in any form possible. But as the chronology of the posts shows your folly, you just look foolish.

the problem is....you don't actually state your points or facts. please state two or three concise points to debate. rather than just make general statements that are open to redefinition when the argument is going badly for you.

perhaps you would like to state precisely a few of the 'on-going effects of slavery' that I am ignoring.

Ian, you're just a pathetic liar. Posts #71, 79, 91, 100

Those are the examples.....the cadre of bigots, white supremacist and the like just keep pretending these don't exist, or they ignore the information contained.....they just want to keep repeating their anti-black racist bilge in various forms until doomsday. But as the chronology exposes their folly, they just look more pathetic.

 

[taichiliberal]

Code won't deal with what Chomsky states.....which is his undoing. Let's watch him lie, accuse and parrot his disproven supposition and conjecture ad nauseum.

I would be more than happy to discuss the Chomsky article. Pick an idea out, restate it in your own words, and we can have at it.

Ian, you're just full of it. All one has to do is read the exchanges with Code and myself to see what Chomsky states, why I referenced him, and what I am stating and why I sourced Chomsky. It's all there in the threads, and I'm not going to waste time repeating myself while you scramble to find a flaw for your racist rhetoric to be inserted. If you don't understand it, get an adult to explain it to you. You want to continue your dodgy BS and stalls, you'll do it alone. Now, tell some lie and bluster on or go read up and get back to me with some honest discussion. I'll only respond to the latter.

 

[IanC]

Code won't deal with what Chomsky states.....which is his undoing. Let's watch him lie, accuse and parrot his disproven supposition and conjecture ad nauseum.

I would be more than happy to discuss the Chomsky article. Pick an idea out, restate it in your own words, and we can have at it.

Ian, you're just full of it. All one has to do is read the exchanges with Code and myself to see what Chomsky states, why I referenced him, and what I am stating and why I sourced Chomsky. It's all there in the threads, and I'm not going to waste time repeating myself while you scramble to find a flaw for your racist rhetoric to be inserted. If you don't understand it, get an adult to explain it to you. You want to continue your dodgy BS and stalls, you'll do it alone. Now, tell some lie and bluster on or go read up and get back to me with some honest discussion. I'll only respond to the latter.

I shouldn't even respond to you.

You are a poser. You don't have any thoughts. I should have realized it when you linked to google search pages instead of actually saying anything but ad hominum. If that is how you get your jollies, carry on then

 

[code1211]

Pay attention:
As to social importance, a correlation between race and mean I.Q. (were this shown to exist) entails no social consequences except in a racist society in which each individual is assigned to a racial category and dealt with not as an individual in his own right, but as a representative of this category … In a non-racist society, the category of race would be of no greater significance [than height]. The mean I.Q. of individuals of a certain racial background is irrelevant to the situation of a particular individual, who is what he is.

Obviously, you either cannot or intentionally do not want to comprehend what this ENTIRE PARAGRAPH is stating. Instead, you insist upon regurgitating the exact same premise that Chomsky logically dismisses. Not surprising, as the propaganda of white supremacists often depends upon the repetiton of one particular set of facts or statements while excluding all other facts, statements and information....especially that which contradicts the white supremacists/bigots beliefs.

Carry on.

*sigh*

You see all things only as a racist would see them. My comment on that was as a manager would review a program geared to produce a given result. Whatever the goal result might have been, the actual result must be measured against it.

Your verbal flailing is unproductive.

The last question is once again ignored by you as you strive to label instead of discuss. In my life and career, a critical review of process and results against the planned goals has always helped to re-shape my efforts. Sometimes, both my efforts and my goals.

What if anything would you measure to determine the success or failure of these or any social programs? Is measurement of any kind automatically racist?

I'm becoming more interested in your thought process than in your conclusions.

Notice folks, how this clown avoids dealing directly with what Chomsky states. Instead, he just keeps repeating his personal opinion and continuing as if nothing has been offered in rebuttal.

This is the typical pattern for intellectually bankrupt white supremacists.....they just ignore what they don't like and claim it's irrelevent. Mind you, they can't and won't logically explain why the information is irrelevent...that would entail addressing the facts and statements presented, and that might lead the reader to conclude that the white supremacist was wrong in their assertions.

Code won't deal with what Chomsky states.....which is his undoing. Let's watch him lie, accuse and parrot his disproven supposition and conjecture ad nauseum.

In a previous post, I did address Chomsky's statement and his conclusion. You have again mis stated the facts. I did not say in that particular post that Chomsky points to "a representative of his category"". The IQ testing and Achievement testing in the USA tests the entire population and draws from that entire population information on genders, races, age, affluence and so on.

From that data, sub groups are assembled and compared. In this way, the entire population and the entire populations of the sub groups are compared. Not "a representative of his category", but rather the whole population.

Chomsky states that where the members of any race rank in IQ tests is only important in a racist society. The USA is a racist society in many respects including that it is trying to resurrect its Black population through the use of cash and laws to accomplish the task. Because the topic of race has been addressed politically and because tax dollars are being spent on it, the wise expenditure of those dollars is the topic. Discussing the effectiveness of these programs is not racist any more than discussing the effectiveness of the Failed Stimulus.

You racist idiot! I am not opposing what Chomsky stated nor am I ignoring it. I am trying to have a parallel discussion to his point. Advancing past the narrow point that he made is not ignoring the point.

My point, which your racist. myopic ranting attempts to divert to this juncture, is simply to ask why the Black population in the USA votes in heavy majorities for the Democrat Party when efforts and results from that party are obviously not achieving the goals that they claim will be achieved.

A basic understanding of management is that "If it can't be measured, it can't be managed". Measuring effectiveness of a program is the first step in defining the effectiveness of a program.

You are saying that measuring effectiveness is not to be allowed. Absent measurement, how would you judge the effectiveness of the programs conducted supported by tax dollars to assure the wise expenditure of tax dollars in this, or for that matter, any, effort?

One might think that if the test scores revealed underachieving by any group, like high school age girls in mathematics and sciences or all American students compared to the rest of the world in these same disciplines, one might have an avenue to review teaching methods or academic prioritization.

Would you recomend not measuring the results of anything or just not measuring those things that might in some narrow or obscure way be interpretted by racists, like yourself, as racist?

 

[global]

Neither. We just don't encourage educational value in certain demographics. For this, I tend to blame the Democrats. They have made 'minorities' a 'pet project' and have failed them badly. They do it for the votes, they don't actually help minorities in any meaningful way. Instead of pushing programs that encourage education and positive outcomes, they encourage 'entitlement' programs.

Before somebody helps Minorities, they have to help themselves. No amount of social welfare program has made the Black standard living any better. It's in their genes, it is so obvious that blacks will forever be predisposed of living a life of failure...

 

[taichiliberal]

Thank you for finally including the part of the quote that you edited out. I have highlighted it in Blue above. I was wondering about why the Black population supports the Democrat Party in such strong majorities in spite of the many years of devotion and the long list of things left to accomplish.

Will you stop acting silly? In all the responses were I captioned your quote I included reference to the lines in blue that didn't change the meaning of your pondering in way, shape or form. So when I get the exact quote, the best you can do is just parrot the SOS that I've discussed, deconstructed, dismantled, disproved and derrided in several previous posts. Seems you're just blowing smoke as usual, but the chronology of the posts will always be your undoing.

Apparently, I was wrong. Apparently, there is no long list of things left to accomplish. The passion of your response and the name calling reveal that the result of the loyalty of the Black population to the Democrat Party has produced for them a Utopian environment including respect from all parts of society, great economic success, complete assimilation into the society's mainstream and has completely eliminated the need for any additional work to correct the wrongs of the past.

Apparently, as the chronology of the posts shows, you're full of it....plain and simple. You make these statements, and when I take them apart to the point where you have no logical retort, you just babble the already disproven points like a parrot on speed. You're attempt to condescend would have some weight if the posts didn't already show your inability to respond in a logical and honest fashion.

You have opened my eyes and I now accept that the Black population voting for the Democrat Party as a block has produced the results they wanted and that the Democrat party has acted with both integrity and energy to justify that support.

I am glad to know that the Civil Rights Struggle is over. Thank you.

And there you have it folks.......another intellectually bankrupt sheet wearer professing his delusions....pity the chronology of the posts makes out this CODE to be a liar every time. I leave him to his folly and the last predictable set of lies.

By leaving the initial clause out of the original quote, you changed the meaning and you assert that you don't see the difference? Disingenuous at best.

Oh spare us all this nonsense of yours...I just surmised the clause as the chronology of the posts shows, NOTHING I left out changed the intent or base statement of your parroted "question". That you cannot logically or factually support your assertion is what's sticking in your craw....and the chronology of the posts will always be your undoing in this venue.

Did you EVER address the question? Why do Blacks vote in such majorities for the Democrat Party when the many decades of loyalty has still not addressed their needs?



I am stating a fact and you are ignoring the fact and taking off on a flight of fancy apparently wishing that I was asking something else.

Here we go again folks.....when white supremacist's cannot logically or factually defend their assertions against the facts and logic others contradict them with, they just pretend that no answer was given, and parrot their propaganda ad nauseum. As the chronology of the posts shows, Code is just another delusional liar.

Let's make this simple:

1. Do you believe that racial equality for blacks has been achieved in all aspects of society?
2. Is there any work left to do to achieve racial equality?
3. Has the improvement of the status of Blacks in America measured by whatever standards you would like to set justified the massive majorities of Blacks voting for the Democrat Party given the lack of spectacular results?

Why don't you stop acting simple, click back on the posts and READ my answers? The chronology of the posts proves that you're lying. See, your problem is that YOU CANNOT DEAL WITH ANYTHING THAT PROVES YOU WRONG. So you just ignore it and try to divert the conversation. You're pathetic Code.

These are not racially charged questions. They are a political questions. You can actually answer them without referance to racial tensions or racism. That is, you can if you see the world first as a person and only marginally as a racist.

As the chronology of the posts shows, your moronic racists statements and your support of others moronic racists statements cannot be misconstrued.....my responses detail why. That you ignore such is of no consequences, for others can read it and see your folly. But as with all intellectually bankrupt racists, you've established a false premise that you will now tout as reality....pity the record doesn't support you.

Say goodnight gracie...shows over for you.

 

[taichiliberal]

*sigh*

You see all things only as a racist would see them. My comment on that was as a manager would review a program geared to produce a given result. Whatever the goal result might have been, the actual result must be measured against it.

Your verbal flailing is unproductive.

The last question is once again ignored by you as you strive to label instead of discuss. In my life and career, a critical review of process and results against the planned goals has always helped to re-shape my efforts. Sometimes, both my efforts and my goals.

What if anything would you measure to determine the success or failure of these or any social programs? Is measurement of any kind automatically racist?

I'm becoming more interested in your thought process than in your conclusions.

Notice folks, how this clown avoids dealing directly with what Chomsky states. Instead, he just keeps repeating his personal opinion and continuing as if nothing has been offered in rebuttal.

This is the typical pattern for intellectually bankrupt white supremacists.....they just ignore what they don't like and claim it's irrelevent. Mind you, they can't and won't logically explain why the information is irrelevent...that would entail addressing the facts and statements presented, and that might lead the reader to conclude that the white supremacist was wrong in their assertions.

Code won't deal with what Chomsky states.....which is his undoing. Let's watch him lie, accuse and parrot his disproven supposition and conjecture ad nauseum.

In a previous post, I did address Chomsky's statement and his conclusion. You have again mis stated the facts. I did not say in that particular post that Chomsky points to "a representative of his category"". The IQ testing and Achievement testing in the USA tests the entire population and draws from that entire population information on genders, races, age, affluence and so on.

You're a liar.....you did then as you do now....you take an excerpt of what Chomsky stated, then IGNORED the context of his article, then went on to make some moot point that does NOT address the focus of what Chomsky states. Code, repeating this lame ploy of yours won't work...the chronology of the posts will always be your undoing.

From that data, sub groups are assembled and compared. In this way, the entire population and the entire populations of the sub groups are compared. Not "a representative of his category", but rather the whole population.

This was previously addressed....you're repeating your folly won't magically make you correct.

Chomsky states that where the members of any race rank in IQ tests is only important in a racist society. The USA is a racist society in many respects including that it is trying to resurrect its Black population through the use of cash and laws to accomplish the task. Because the topic of race has been addressed politically and because tax dollars are being spent on it, the wise expenditure of those dollars is the topic. Discussing the effectiveness of these programs is not racist any more than discussing the effectiveness of the Failed Stimulus.


And this paragraph illustrates the disingenuous nature of your analogy. Your convoluted logic tries to dismiss or ignore the congenital racism in this society and it's effects by claiming that economic procedures to address the issues are inherently "racist" to some extent. Only white supremacists automatically insinuate that any laws that force bigots and racist to treat black folk fairly in business, housing, etc. is "racist". Chomsky pointed out the inescapable......since "race" is only an issue in a racist society, it's absurd to expect the racists to develop an "intelligence" rating system that would be divorced of the very racist nature of the society.


You racist idiot! I am not opposing what Chomsky stated nor am I ignoring it. I am trying to have a parallel discussion to his point. Advancing past the narrow point that he made is not ignoring the point.

Hey genius, can you produce the sentence or paragraph were I'm suggesting, stating, insinuating, alluding to, or saying in any shape form or fashion that white people are inferior to black people? Nope. Did I start a thread saying all white folk are racists? Nope? The very title of this thread puts forth a premise that folk like you just LOVE to use to bullhorn such nonsense as the Bell Curve. But, when properly countered, you just go parrot and make absurd accusations. As I previously pointed out, you try to ignore, misrepresent and avoid what Chomsky stated, which puts the whole concept of race and IQ test in question at best...and what puts the white supremacist clap trap by you and your like minded compadres in the garbage where they belong.

My point, which your racist. myopic ranting attempts to divert to this juncture, is simply to ask why the Black population in the USA votes in heavy majorities for the Democrat Party when efforts and results from that party are obviously not achieving the goals that they claim will be achieved.

Your "point" was addressed, and you didn't like the result. As the chronology of the posts shows, you can't get past me with your convoluted, racist BS. So you lie, deny, and repeat yourself ad nauseum...as intellectually bankrupt bigots are want to do.

A basic understanding of management is that "If it can't be measured, it can't be managed". Measuring effectiveness of a program is the first step in defining the effectiveness of a program.


Again, you repeat a moot point that was already addressed in it's entire context...the chronology of the posts just shows your failed, stubborn stance.

You are saying that measuring effectiveness is not to be allowed. Absent measurement, how would you judge the effectiveness of the programs conducted supported by tax dollars to assure the wise expenditure of tax dollars in this, or for that matter, any, effort?

Again, you lie... I said nothing of the sort....why do you create these lies when the chronology of the posts shows otherwise? This was already addressed....grow up, you just can't get past me with these childish ploys.

One might think that if the test scores revealed underachieving by any group, like high school age girls in mathematics and sciences or all American students compared to the rest of the world in these same disciplines, one might have an avenue to review teaching methods or academic prioritization.

If one were as simple minded as you they would think that.....fortunately, people look at teachers, kids, parents, teaching methods, preparation, etc., before evaluating comparative math scores. IQ tests are another matter, and as the links I previously provided show, what YOU and your bigot buddies propose just doesn't stand up to logical analysis. Bottom line: In order to buy into your mindset, one has to IGNORE A LOT OF CONTRIBUTING FACTORS. As the chronology of the posts shows, I detail how you do this, which invalidates your assertions and statements.

Would you recomend not measuring the results of anything or just not measuring those things that might in some narrow or obscure way be interpretted by racists, like yourself, as racist?

See above responses.....You're just another pathetic David Duke wanna be, Code.