Incompetent United Air Lines Physically Drags Passenger Off Plane For Their (Airline) Mistake

[Divine Wind]

You should take your own advice the next time you're aboard an airliner.

If someone puts their hands on me to illegally remove me from a plane, I will.

And if they put hands on you to legally remove you, will you accept that, in addition to a lot of other charges, you'll be charged with resisting arrest and assault of a LEO?

They violated the law. They were removing him just because he was not a United employee, which is a clear violation of law.

We shall see, eh? In the meantime, let me know how your next flight goes when you tell the FA to go **** herself/himself.

Dr. Dao just won the Lotto, he will be a very wealthy man by next year.

He'll need all of that money to pay off his FAA fines and make up for the loss of patients who don't want a nutjob criminal as their doctor.

 

[danielpalos]

I've read that, but UA still has the right to request anyone to deplane, if the FAA fines UA I'll stand corrected on this part, but the dumb ass should have left the plane...

No one has challenged UA's right to request that a passenger leave a plane. But do you consider brutally setting upon a 70 year-old man, breaking his nose, knocking out two of his teeth, splitting his lip and causing a concussion to be a "request?" If you do I suggest you invest in a dictionary.

You continue to conflate two different things. Why?

Yes, Republic airlines (not UA) was legal to request Dao to leave and, when he violated the Contract of Carriage, to call airport security.

No, the City of Chicago's plainclothes officer didn't appear to be justified in physically removing Dao. Once all the evidence is in, then Dao is free to sue the city.

That has to be determined in open Court.

 

[danielpalos]

I've read that, but UA still has the right to request anyone to deplane, if the FAA fines UA I'll stand corrected on this part, but the dumb ass should have left the plane...

No one has challenged UA's right to request that a passenger leave a plane. But do you consider brutally setting upon a 70 year-old man, breaking his nose, knocking out two of his teeth, splitting his lip and causing a concussion to be a "request?" If you do I suggest you invest in a dictionary.

You continue to conflate two different things. Why?

Yes, Republic airlines (not UA) was legal to request Dao to leave and, when he violated the Contract of Carriage, to call airport security.

No, the City of Chicago's plainclothes officer didn't appear to be justified in physically removing Dao. Once all the evidence is in, then Dao is free to sue the city.

You've failed miserably to support your idiocy that he violated their contract of carriage. You posted it earlier and were shown there wasn't a single aspect of that contract that applied to Dao's circumstances. You were also shown that United's own CEO clearly stated Dao was not at fault in any way. It's anyone's guess why you persist in the face of the stark reality that Dao was the victim here?

The bottom line does not qualify as a Force Majeure, class exigency.

 

[Divine Wind]

Again, it will be interesting to see other passengers "stand up for their rights" by telling FA's to go **** themselves when asked to stop texting, put their seatbelt on, but their bag under a seat, move to another seat or even get off the aircraft. I strongly doubt it will be anyone on this thread.

On that last one, I think most airlines will establish protocol to deplane everyone first then "deny boarding" to some for whatever reasons are necessary.

 

[Pogo]

Again, it will be interesting to see other passengers "stand up for their rights" by telling FA's to go **** themselves when asked to stop texting, put their seatbelt on, but their bag under a seat, move to another seat or even get off the aircraft. I strongly doubt it will be anyone on this thread.

On that last one, I think most airlines will establish protocol to deplane everyone first then "deny boarding" to some for whatever reasons are necessary.

Prolly won't be, since all of those excepting the last are legitimate requests in the operation of the aircraft, whereas the last is an illegitimate manifestation of "we fucked up and we'll make you pay for it".

 

[Pogo]

If someone puts their hands on me to illegally remove me from a plane, I will.

And if they put hands on you to legally remove you, will you accept that, in addition to a lot of other charges, you'll be charged with resisting arrest and assault of a LEO?

They violated the law. They were removing him just because he was not a United employee, which is a clear violation of law.

We shall see, eh? In the meantime, let me know how your next flight goes when you tell the FA to go **** herself/himself.

Dr. Dao just won the Lotto, he will be a very wealthy man by next year.

He'll need all of that money to pay off his FAA fines and make up for the loss of patients who don't want a nutjob criminal as their doctor.

And what "FAA fines" would these be, seeing as how FAA regulates airlines and Dao is not an airline?

Oh wait, I remember --- wunna dem mysterious "laws" you keep endlessly making reference to while completely whiffing every time you're asked to quote it. That one.

 

[Divine Wind]

I've posted this several times before, but because, like Dao, some people are just ******* stupid, here it is again: US DC Circuit Confirms FAA’s Authority to Prohibit Passenger Interference with Crew - Lexology

 

[Pogo]

Yes, Dao had already boarded. His boarding was then denied and he was asked to deplane.

.... Once AGAIN, no his boarding was NOT "then denied". It's impossible to do that. He was most obviously IN HIS SEAT. You can't just "deny" an actual fact that happened, unless you're completely delusional. You just said yourself he was boarded, which he was. That's IT. You can't make that into an "unevent" that never happened and by the way we have always been at war with Oceania.

You can ask him to deplane, sure. You can ask him to take your pulse and give a diagnosis, you can ask him to teach you a phrase in Vietnamese, you can ask him anything you want. And he can say yes or no. He said no. What does "no" mean, outside the world of self-delusion?

Even if you were 100% correct with your jailhouse lawyering on the boarding issue, do you deny that when he ran back on board, that he was in the wrong for 1) violating security and 2) he'd been denied boarding and was off the plane?

He has no memory of that, being just-revived from a concussion, missing teeth, bleeding all over the place. You ever watch a football game or other sports event where a player takes a hit to the head and is dazed? You ever see the simple basic testing they give them on the sideline to determine their level of consciousness, simple stuff like 'what's your namé' and 'where are you'? That's what a head blow can do. Nobody in the WORLD is going to hold a victim of an assault with a concussion responsible for the aftereffects OF that assault.

And (also again) --- what the hell kind of security force first sends three goons, count 'em, three, to assault a 69 year old man on a plane, gives him a concussion, split lip and broken teeth, knocks him out ------------ and then loses him to get up and wander back? Even if they had been on a legitimate mission, such as removing an actually disruptive passenger, how competent are said goons to just turn around and let him back on?

--- Or do you think they deliberately let him back on after even they figured out what you cannot --- that "hey, what we're doing here just ain't right".....?

Which do you think happened ---- they had a moment of remorse, or they're just incompetent?

 

[Divine Wind]

Also, to reiterate for the stupid and/or illiterate, what Munoz actually said: United to compensate people on flight when man dragged off
""That is not who our family at United is," he said. "This will never happen again on a United flight. That's my promise."

In the future, law enforcement will not be involved in removing a "booked, paid, seated passenger," Munoz said. "We can't do that.""

What they'll do is:
1) Do their best to handle this at the gate prior to boarding.
2) If they can't get enough volunteers on the plane after boarding, then disembark everyone and go back to point #1.

 

[Pogo]

Dao caused a disruption by refusing to vacate the aircraft. By doing so, he interfered with the aircrew and the airline operations.

BULLSHIT. Everybody who's ever gotten on a plane and gone somewhere has "refused to vacate the aircraft" until it landed. That's exactly what a passenger is expected to do in the operation of a flight -- submit one's ticket, take one's seat, and buckle up. Which is exactly what Dao did, exactly what I've always done, and exactly what YOU are expected to do if you ever see the inside of an airplane.

I've posted this several times before, but because, like Dao, some people are just ******* stupid, here it is again: US DC Circuit Confirms FAA’s Authority to Prohibit Passenger Interference with Crew - Lexology

You tried to get away with that bullshit before and I nailed you on it. There is no definition of "interference" that involves heinous crimes like "paying the carrier for one's ticket", "submitting one's ticket to be boarded", "taking one's assigned seat in accordance with said ticket", "fastening one's seat belt" or "having the misfortune to be selected when the airline ***** up and tries to remove its own paying customer because its operation is incompetent". NONE. If that were the case the FAA could literally prosecute everyone who's ever gotten on a plane in history.

Your attempt at argument here is completely dishonest. Wallasea was constantly changing seats, annoying other passengers, and standing up and walking around during turbulence. ***NONE**** of that in any way even vaguely resembles anything Dao did. You are a dishonest hack.

 

[Faun]

If someone puts their hands on me to illegally remove me from a plane, I will.

And if they put hands on you to legally remove you, will you accept that, in addition to a lot of other charges, you'll be charged with resisting arrest and assault of a LEO?

They violated the law. They were removing him just because he was not a United employee, which is a clear violation of law.

We shall see, eh? In the meantime, let me know how your next flight goes when you tell the FA to go **** herself/himself.

Dr. Dao just won the Lotto, he will be a very wealthy man by next year.

He'll need all of that money to pay off his FAA fines and make up for the loss of patients who don't want a nutjob criminal as their doctor.

What FAA fines?? None have been imposed on him. And you assume he will still see patients following his settlement. He might just retire.

 

[Faun]

I've posted this several times before, but because, like Dao, some people are just ******* stupid, here it is again: US DC Circuit Confirms FAA’s Authority to Prohibit Passenger Interference with Crew - Lexology

You poor, schmuck.

Your own link says...

Passenger's Challenge to FAA's Authority Rejected Because Interference Rule Is Reasonably Related to Flight Safety​

Dao's refusal to give up his seat for an employee did not compromise "flight safety."

 

[rightwinger]

I've read that, but UA still has the right to request anyone to deplane, if the FAA fines UA I'll stand corrected on this part, but the dumb ass should have left the plane...

No one has challenged UA's right to request that a passenger leave a plane. But do you consider brutally setting upon a 70 year-old man, breaking his nose, knocking out two of his teeth, splitting his lip and causing a concussion to be a "request?" If you do I suggest you invest in a dictionary.

You continue to conflate two different things. Why?

Yes, Republic airlines (not UA) was legal to request Dao to leave and, when he violated the Contract of Carriage, to call airport security.

No, the City of Chicago's plainclothes officer didn't appear to be justified in physically removing Dao. Once all the evidence is in, then Dao is free to sue the city.

You've failed miserably to support your idiocy that he violated their contract of carriage. You posted it earlier and were shown there wasn't a single aspect of that contract that applied to Dao's circumstances. You were also shown that United's own CEO clearly stated Dao was not at fault in any way. It's anyone's guess why you persist in the face of the stark reality that Dao was the victim here?

The bottom line does not qualify as a Force Majeure, class exigency.

Sure..... moving employees is an act of God

 

[Pogo]

But that's the thing, it's not up to the passenger to decide if the reason is "good enough." In that event, you could just about always say every passenger will say the reason isn't "good enough" because nobody wants to be bumped from an airplane.

The airline owns the plane, you don't. They say you have to get up, you have to get up. It's that simple. Believe me, it's a bigger hassle for the airlines than for the passenger, so they don't do it unless they have to.

If they want to fly a flight crew that needs to be rested and ready to go the next morning on THEIR airplane, that's their choice. They own the airplane.

It's not up to the passenger no --- it's up to the Contract of Carriage. Which United itself (via its attorneys) wrote, and which I've already quoted here. And guess what it says ---- it says if they're going to bump somebody they'll do it BEFORE boarding. Not AFTER.

If some passenger wanted to take a flight but didn't arrange it in time, they don't get there. They fucked up. Whelp, in this case the airline didn't arrange it in time. THEY fucked up.

What's more they've already publicly admitted they fucked up.

That's why this thread has long since ceased being about some incident on some airline and is now entirely a thread about the psychology of internet self-delusion. Here we have a situation with a perpetrator and a victim, and the perpetrator has already admitted their perpetration ----- and yet here's you and the Windbag still trying to get them off the hook they've already acknowledged putting themselves on.

What the hell can your purpose possibly be??? Do y'all actually think United Airlines is going to peruse USMB and suddenly jump up and gawk, "oh wait! Look at this thread, we were wrong about being wrong! We win!! Let's celebrate by kicking off all the passengers who just got on a plane at O'Hare!" --- ?

Seriously what the friggety **** can the objective possibly BE at this point? If you lose your keys, and then you find them --------------- do you then continue looking for them?

 

[rightwinger]

If someone puts their hands on me to illegally remove me from a plane, I will.

And if they put hands on you to legally remove you, will you accept that, in addition to a lot of other charges, you'll be charged with resisting arrest and assault of a LEO?

They violated the law. They were removing him just because he was not a United employee, which is a clear violation of law.

We shall see, eh? In the meantime, let me know how your next flight goes when you tell the FA to go **** herself/himself.

Dr. Dao just won the Lotto, he will be a very wealthy man by next year.

He'll need all of that money to pay off his FAA fines and make up for the loss of patients who don't want a nutjob criminal as their doctor.

What ever Dr Dao receives in compensation will pale in comparison to the $25 million I get from you

I wonder if United will welch on their obligation? Maybe you can give them some pointers

 

[Divine Wind]

li·ar
ˈlī(ə)r/
noun

1. a person who tells lies.
   synonyms: deceiver, fibber, perjurer, false witness, fabricator, equivocator;

con art·ist
noun
informal

1. a person who cheats or tricks others by persuading them to believe something that is not true.
   "the debonair con artist lives by scamming rich women"

 

[Pogo]

And if they put hands on you to legally remove you, will you accept that, in addition to a lot of other charges, you'll be charged with resisting arrest and assault of a LEO?

They violated the law. They were removing him just because he was not a United employee, which is a clear violation of law.

We shall see, eh? In the meantime, let me know how your next flight goes when you tell the FA to go **** herself/himself.

Dr. Dao just won the Lotto, he will be a very wealthy man by next year.

He'll need all of that money to pay off his FAA fines and make up for the loss of patients who don't want a nutjob criminal as their doctor.

What ever Dr Dao receives in compensation will pale in comparison to the $25 million I get from you

I wonder if United will welch on their obligation? Maybe you can give them some pointers

I bet there's an "FAA regulation" on bet-welching.

It's called the "Lie-ability clause"....

 

[Pogo]

li·ar
ˈlī(ə)r/
noun

1. a person who tells lies.
   synonyms: deceiver, fibber, perjurer, false witness, fabricator, equivocator;

con art·ist
noun
informal

1. a person who cheats or tricks others by persuading them to believe something that is not true.
   "the debonair con artist lives by scamming rich women"

There is in fact already an illustration for these terms right below in my sigline. Don't think he's involved with this though.

I wonder if Rump Shuttle ever grabbed a paying passenger by the rump....

 

[airplanemechanic]

According to politifact, me and DW are correct about this. Whatever politifact is worth, it's a good read:

United passenger had every right to stay, Fox analyst says

Timothy Ravich, an aviation law professor at the University of Central Florida, told us passenger rights are still limited by laws, regulations and policies. Airlines have the authority to decide whether passengers are breaking the rules, and can remove people at a company's discretion, even against a passenger's will.

"The suggestion that Dr. Dao had ironclad rights merely by buying a ticket, passing through TSA security, and being in his seat is incorrect," Ravich said.

Notice it says AIRLINES have the authority to decide this. They make the rules, so they can decide if you're breaking them. As soon as he refused to disembark the plane, he was breaking the rules. At that point he lost any rights he has, except the right to remain silent. He violated the contract of carriage. There is a reason no lawsuit has been filed. It takes an hour to file a lawsuit, not 2 weeks. He can't find a lawyer to jump on this and we all know why.

It's the same as if you came to my house and I handed you a contract of rules you had to follow at my house while here. If I decide you broke a rule, I can remove you from my home. I own the home. You can't run and get a lawyer and sue me. I make the rules, I enforce them. United made the rules, United enforces them as they see fit.

It's a free country, he was offered 4 times the price of his ticket to leave. He refused, so he was removed. If you pay me 20 dollars to come fish in my pond and I ask you to leave by offering you 80 and you refuse, I can then have you removed. It's fair.

 

[Pogo]

According to politifact, me and DW are correct about this. Whatever politifact is worth, it's a good read:

United passenger had every right to stay, Fox analyst says

Timothy Ravich, an aviation law professor at the University of Central Florida, told us passenger rights are still limited by laws, regulations and policies. Airlines have the authority to decide whether passengers are breaking the rules, and can remove people at a company's discretion, even against a passenger's will.

"The suggestion that Dr. Dao had ironclad rights merely by buying a ticket, passing through TSA security, and being in his seat is incorrect," Ravich said.

Notice it says AIRLINES have the authority to decide this. They make the rules, so they can decide if you're breaking them. As soon as he refused to disembark the plane, he was breaking the rules. At that point he lost any rights he has, except the right to remain silent. He violated the contract of carriage. There is a reason no lawsuit has been filed. It takes an hour to file a lawsuit, not 2 weeks. He can't find a lawyer to jump on this and we all know why.

It's the same as if you came to my house and I handed you a contract of rules you had to follow at my house while here. If I decide you broke a rule, I can remove you from my home. I own the home. You can't run and get a lawyer and sue me. I make the rules, I enforce them. United made the rules, United enforces them as they see fit.

It's a free country, he was offered 4 times the price of his ticket to leave. He refused, so he was removed. If you pay me 20 dollars to come fish in my pond and I ask you to leave by offering you 80 and you refuse, I can then have you removed. It's fair.

Yeah yeah I've already quoted their rules. Post 844. And it's the airline who broke them. Your own link provides a link to that same document, which apparently PolitiFact didn't bother to read, nor is it in their domain to render.legal opinion anyway. Go ahead -- look up that document and prove me wrong. Go find me ANYWHERE in that entire Contract where Dao was in violation. Fetch, boy!

Again, that would be the same airline that admitted it fucked up. Your client, counselor, has already confessed and here you are trying to plead "not guilty". There's nothing left here but self-delusion.