Il Papa Francesco: animals go to heaven

[Dajjal]

They have souls, if they didn't they wouldn't love us as unconditionally as they do, or have their own unique personalities.

I know my cats have souls...without a doubt.

I don't even believe people have souls. sorry, I just don't.

Do cats and dogs have personalities? Yes, they do.

I attended many spiritualist meetings over several decades, and I came to believe there is a spirit world, because I had so many strongly evidential messages from dead relatives.

 

[Dajjal]

What about goldfish?

The spirit guides I have listened to say that lesser animals or life forms like insects have group souls. I am not sure how that works, but a large group of ants would have one group soul between them.

 

[peach174]

All of life has souls.
Some church teachings that say that animals don't have souls are wrong.

The soul is not distinctive to man. The Hebrew word most often translated "soul" occurs four (4) times in the first chapter of Genesis and always means a living creature. God breathed in to Adam's nostrils and man BECAME a living soul - he didn't RECEIVE one. When a person dies, his BREATH returns to God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7 says, "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return to God who gave it." The word there translated as "spirit" is the same word for breath or wind. The body is DEAD to await the resurrection (Eccl. 9:10). Hell in the "Old" Testament is the Hebrew word "she'ol" and means grave or pit. Hell is not a place where you burn for eternity.
There will be animals during the thousand years of Jesus ruling here on earth.
The Bible talks about horses in heaven.
The lion shall lie down with the lamb in the millennial kingdom on earth ruled over by the Messiah.
Isaiah 11:6 - 11:9
The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

 

[Steven_R]

If there's a heaven and my dogs aren't there, it isn't heaven.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Do cockroaches, spiders, and bacteria also go to Heaven then?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

The Bible doesn't actually say way one way or the other. I would like to believe that the souls of pets would reach Heaven but wouldn't bank on it.

True, seeing as how no such place exists.

 

[Steven_R]

Do cockroaches, spiders, and bacteria also go to Heaven then?

It does beg the question about who is actually in heaven and what is the interaction between souls like? What happens when someone runs into the uncle that molested them or the brother that stole from them or their wife's first husband or someone you'd rather not meet? If we just automatically forgive and forget, then do we have the same personality or are we no longer us? What about the souls of people with traumatic brain injuries or dementia like Alzheimer's patients? Do the souls of dead infants meet us as crying shit machines or do they meet us as the people they might have been or something? Does the soul of a houseplant or goldfish get pissed when it runs into the human that forgot to feed it for a month?

Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[Jroc]

This sure sounds like a shift in church doctrine, but I'm not so sure:

Pope Francis Animals go to heaven - FOX 32 News Chicago

During his weekly address in St. Peter's Square, Pope Francis comforted a young boy who was distraught over the recent death of his dog by telling him, "One day, we will see our animals again in the eternity of Christ," the 77-year leader of the Roman Catholic Church said, according to Time. "Paradise is open to all of God's creatures."

The statement by the pope was welcomed by animal rights groups and humane societies across the globe, who see it as a repudiation of traditional Catholic teaching dating back hundreds of years that holds that animals can't go to heaven because they have no souls.

"My inbox got flooded," Christine Gutleben, senior director of faith outreach at the Humane Society, the largest animal protection group in the United States, told the New York Times. "Almost immediately, everybody was talking about it."

Some Catholic scholars, however, have warned that the Pope's comment was made casually and should not be taken as official Church doctrine. Others point to earlier comments that seem to suggest that Pope Francis has long held beliefs that animals can go to heaven.

Here's a pretty good site that makes some thought-provoking points:

Do animals go to Heaven Bibleinfo.com


Here is a link that references the catechism of the Roman Catholic Church on the issue:

Pets in Heaven

This is the reason they give:

One principle is that all living things have a soul. Here soul is defined as what makes an organic body live. Now when any living thing dies, its soul is separated from its body. In the case of plants and animals the soul goes out of existence. But in the case of man, the soul remains in existence because it is a spiritual or immaterial thing. Consequently, it differs from the souls of animals in two important respects. First, it is the seat of intelligence or reason. For this reason a man is held responsible for his actions in a way that animals are not. Secondly, the soul is immortal. A thing which has no physical parts cannot fall apart or be poisoned or be crushed or be put out of existence. For this reason the souls of the saved will always be aware of themselves as enjoying the vision of God for all eternity. This enjoyment will be the result of having chosen to act on earth in such a way that one did the will of God rather than one's own will. And the souls of the damned will be aware of themselves as never attaining this vision of God because they have shown by their lives on earth that they did not wish this vision but instead preferred their own will.

In the light of this essential difference between human beings and animals, it would seem that we would not see the souls of our pets in heaven for the simple reason that they do not have immortal souls and are not responsible for their actions. They do not have the intelligence which allows them to choose either God's will or their own will. There is, then, an incomparable distance, say, between the soul of the sorriest human being who ever lived and the most noble brute animal that ever walked the earth.

Now a child might be heartbroken at the thought that he will never see his pet again. He cannot yet understand this explanation about the difference between the human and the animal soul. I suppose that one could tell the child that when he hopefully gets to heaven, he could ask God to see his old pets if he still wished to. There would be no harm in that. For we know that when a person finally sees God, he will not be concerned with seeing old pets or favorite places but rather will be captured in the complete fulfillment of the joy of which old pets and favorite places are but little signs. We adults know that, even if the child does not.

What say you?

Judaism teaches that animals have souls, and of course they do. When the animal dies it's soul is returned to it's source.... G-D

 

[Dajjal]

Do cockroaches, spiders, and bacteria also go to Heaven then?

It does beg the question about who is actually in heaven and what is the interaction between souls like? What happens when someone runs into the uncle that molested them or the brother that stole from them or their wife's first husband or someone you'd rather not meet? If we just automatically forgive and forget, then do we have the same personality or are we no longer us? What about the souls of people with traumatic brain injuries or dementia like Alzheimer's patients? Do the souls of dead infants meet us as crying shit machines or do they meet us as the people they might have been or something? Does the soul of a houseplant or goldfish get pissed when it runs into the human that forgot to feed it for a month?

Inquiring minds want to know!

According to the spirit guides I have heard giving lectures, there are graduated planes of existence. They go from dark unholy realms to high, heaven like planes. We go to the plane that our souls are suited for so people who have done evil will not be in a plane as high as their victims. Therefore they will not run into each other. We do forgive and forget things done to us on earth but we retain the identity of our last incarnation. The spirit body does not have the afflictions of the earth body so people with mental defects are cured. The souls of babies that die grow up in the spirit world until they reach maturity. On the other hand people that die old revert to a younger state, like the prime of life. I do not think the souls of animals bear grudges for long as they just forget.

 

[Dajjal]

Do cockroaches, spiders, and bacteria also go to Heaven then?

As I have said in my previous post there is not just a heaven or hell but many realms of experience. I do not know what happens to insects in the afterlife because I never thought to ask that question of a spirit guide, but I did ask one whether animals evolve to become human and she said "no" animals evolve to perfection in their own right. I expect that lower forms of life are confined to a realm of their own, but I do not know for sure.

 

[Carla_Danger]

If there's a heaven and my dogs aren't there, it isn't heaven.

LOL!


I wake up in pug heaven every morning!!!

 

[Statistikhengst]

This sure sounds like a shift in church doctrine, but I'm not so sure:

Pope Francis Animals go to heaven - FOX 32 News Chicago

During his weekly address in St. Peter's Square, Pope Francis comforted a young boy who was distraught over the recent death of his dog by telling him, "One day, we will see our animals again in the eternity of Christ," the 77-year leader of the Roman Catholic Church said, according to Time. "Paradise is open to all of God's creatures."

The statement by the pope was welcomed by animal rights groups and humane societies across the globe, who see it as a repudiation of traditional Catholic teaching dating back hundreds of years that holds that animals can't go to heaven because they have no souls.

"My inbox got flooded," Christine Gutleben, senior director of faith outreach at the Humane Society, the largest animal protection group in the United States, told the New York Times. "Almost immediately, everybody was talking about it."

Some Catholic scholars, however, have warned that the Pope's comment was made casually and should not be taken as official Church doctrine. Others point to earlier comments that seem to suggest that Pope Francis has long held beliefs that animals can go to heaven.

Here's a pretty good site that makes some thought-provoking points:

Do animals go to Heaven Bibleinfo.com


Here is a link that references the catechism of the Roman Catholic Church on the issue:

Pets in Heaven

This is the reason they give:

One principle is that all living things have a soul. Here soul is defined as what makes an organic body live. Now when any living thing dies, its soul is separated from its body. In the case of plants and animals the soul goes out of existence. But in the case of man, the soul remains in existence because it is a spiritual or immaterial thing. Consequently, it differs from the souls of animals in two important respects. First, it is the seat of intelligence or reason. For this reason a man is held responsible for his actions in a way that animals are not. Secondly, the soul is immortal. A thing which has no physical parts cannot fall apart or be poisoned or be crushed or be put out of existence. For this reason the souls of the saved will always be aware of themselves as enjoying the vision of God for all eternity. This enjoyment will be the result of having chosen to act on earth in such a way that one did the will of God rather than one's own will. And the souls of the damned will be aware of themselves as never attaining this vision of God because they have shown by their lives on earth that they did not wish this vision but instead preferred their own will.

In the light of this essential difference between human beings and animals, it would seem that we would not see the souls of our pets in heaven for the simple reason that they do not have immortal souls and are not responsible for their actions. They do not have the intelligence which allows them to choose either God's will or their own will. There is, then, an incomparable distance, say, between the soul of the sorriest human being who ever lived and the most noble brute animal that ever walked the earth.

Now a child might be heartbroken at the thought that he will never see his pet again. He cannot yet understand this explanation about the difference between the human and the animal soul. I suppose that one could tell the child that when he hopefully gets to heaven, he could ask God to see his old pets if he still wished to. There would be no harm in that. For we know that when a person finally sees God, he will not be concerned with seeing old pets or favorite places but rather will be captured in the complete fulfillment of the joy of which old pets and favorite places are but little signs. We adults know that, even if the child does not.

What say you?

Judaism teaches that animals have souls, and of course they do. When the animal dies it's soul is returned to it's source.... G-D

Of course.

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[JoeB131]

Judaism teaches that animals have souls, and of course they do. When the animal dies it's soul is returned to it's source.... G-D

Can you quote a bible verse on that?

 

[Statistikhengst]

Judaism teaches that animals have souls, and of course they do. When the animal dies it's soul is returned to it's source.... G-D

Can you quote a bible verse on that?

JoeB131

Jroc was unclear. But the issue is actually not really settled in Judaism.

There are varying words for soul in Ivrit (Hebrew) and those words carry a different emphasis. The four major words to describe "soul" all have a specific function:

1.) "Nefesh" refers to the physical life force of a body - the soul of a person while he is on this earth. We Jews often refer to a sort of musical poem (piyyut) called Yedid Nefesh (beloved of the soul), which is sung weekly for Kabbalat Shabbat.

2.) "Ruach" means soul in the sense of wind or spirit and refers to the emotional level of a soul.

3.) "Chayah" refers to the higher level of the soul. Where "Ruach" refers to the emotional, "Chayah" refers to the cognitive once the soul has left it's earthly shell. In Judaism, the tree of all souls who have been inscribed into the book of Life is called the EYTZ CHAYYIM (tree of life).

4.) The more common word for soul, the one that is used in colloquial and kind of packs 1,2 and 3 all together, is "Neshemah", as found in Psalm 150:

"Let everything that has a soul praise the lord".

Neshamah actually means "breath". Similar to the English word "spirit", which stems from "spiro", which means "breath".

But there can be no doubt in terms of the words used and the grammar that the word "everything" and not "everyone" is referred to in Psalm 150, which could indeed indicate that more than just human beings possess a soul, because no one is expecting a soulless creature to be praising a higher power. Now, whether the soul of an animal makes it to Heaven is not really discussed in Torah, but Maimonides, arguably the greatest of all jewish Rabbis, the one who codified the 13 immutable characteristics of the most holy (Yigdal), refers to Deuteronomy 22:6-7 to make an interesting argument:

Deuteronomy 22:6-7:

If you come across a bird’s nest beside the road, either in a tree or on the ground, and the mother is sitting on the young or on the eggs, do not take the mother with the young. You may take the young, but be sure to let the mother go, so that it may go well with you and you may have a long life.

Yes, that commandment is one of 613 commandments found in the Tanakh (Bible), one that most people would never think about and I would be that most Jews have even glossed this one over. Based on this Mitzvah (commandment), Maimonides argued that by deliberately chasing away the mother bird before taking the eggs, the commandment teaches us compassion for the feelings of other animals. And remember, "Ruach" refers to the soul in terms of it's emotional component.


But not matter how you slice it, and irregardless of which religion speaks to this issue, there are really two issues:

1.) Do animals other than homo sapiens have a soul,and if so,

2.) Do they enter into Heaven?

I only started this thread because the new Pope does appear to same some groundbreaking things on a pretty regular basis. Can't say that I disagree with him, I just find it interesting that he responds to questions like this with more than the usual, stiff, beaurocratic nonsense speak that we often hear from people in positions of high authority.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Heaven is a place where your dog is waiting for you, with a stick in his mouth and his tail wagging.

-Confucius

(ok, I made that one up)

 

[Jroc]

Anyone who has looked into the eyes of an animal can see. The eyes are the window to the soul. I remember when i put my old cat down. The light was there. Then the soul left him, no more light.....You can tell a lot about a person simply by looking them in the eye, animal too

 

[Care4all]

My answer is yes, and as said earlier, heaven would not be Heaven, if my little kitty girl was not waiting there for my hubby and me!

Scripture about Animals in Heaven:

Revelation 5:8-13
All creatures recognize Jesus as the Savior of the world and praise God right
along with redeemed men.

Psalm 145:-9-10,13,15-21 AMP
Though all creatures are subject to man's
cruelty, God loves all His creation and
has made plans for all His children and
the lesser creatures to enjoy His eternal
Kingdom.

Romans 8:19 KJV
The lesser creatures await Christ's return to
redeem the sons of God so they, too,
will be released from physical death to eternal life.

Revelation 5:13 KJV
And every creature which is in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and
such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying. Blessing, and
honour, and glory, and power, be unto hi
m that sitteth upon the throne, and unto
the Lamb for ever and ever.

Romans 8:21-22 KJV
Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption
into the glorious liberty of the children
of God. For we know that the whole
creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Ephesians 1:10
This plan, which God will complete when the ti
me is right, is to bring all creation
together, everything in heaven and on
earth, with Christ as head.”
Ephesians 1:9-10
And he made known to us the mystery of
his will according to his good pleasure,
which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have
reached the fulfillment-to bring all things
in heaven and on earth together under
one head, Jesus Christ."

1Timothy 4:4
"For everything God created is good...for
it is sanctified by God's word and
prayer"

Rev. 5:13-14
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on
the sea, and all that is in them, singing:
"To him who sits on the throne and to the
Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!" The four
living creatures said, "Amen," and the elders fell down and worshiped.

Colossians 1:19-20
For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him God was
pleased to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, by
making peace through the blood of his cross.

Luke 3:6
And all flesh shall see the salvation of God

Rev. 5:11 – 14
"In my vision, I heard the sound of an immense number of angels gathered round
the throne and the ANIMALS and the elders; there were ten thousand times ten
thousand of them and thousands upon thousands, shouting, `The Lamb that was
sacrificed is worthy to be given power,
riches, wisdom, strength, honor, glory
and blessing'. Then I heard all the living
things in creation—everything that lives
in the air, and on the ground, and under the ground, and in the sea, crying, `To
the One who is sitting on the throne and
to the Lamb, be all praise, honor, glory
and power, for ever and ever'. And the four ANIMALS said `Amen'; and the
elders prostrated themselves to worship." (The Jerusalem Bible [Catholic
translation]).

Ephesians 1:10
"[He planned] for the maturity of the times and the climax of the ages to
unify all things and head them up and consummate them in Christ, [both] things in
heaven and things on earth." (Amplified).

Isaiah 40:5
"And the glory of the Lord shall be
revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for
the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it
." (Douay-Rhiems) (New King James)
(Revised Standard Version) (Amplified) (Others).

http://firstplymouth.org/animalministry/pdf/Scripture.pdf

 

[Care4all]

Anyone who has looked into the eyes of an animal can see. The eyes are the window to the soul. I remember when i put my old cat down. The light was there. Then the soul left him, no more light.....You can tell a lot about a person simply by looking them in the eye, animal too

Agree!

And that's why we are handicapped on this board, with each other, we can't see in to each other's eyes...

 

[BreezeWood]

.
all that lives has a Spirit and a chance for imortality - Admittance to the Everlasting.

.

 

[indiajo]

This sure sounds like a shift in church doctrine, but I'm not so sure:

Pope Francis Animals go to heaven - FOX 32 News Chicago




What say you?

Well, if all the mosquitos since the dawn of time are there too, I choose hell.
Plus, people there would be more entertaining. Consider, you are there for eternity.