Zone1 If you commit a crime, should you be punished?

[TemplarKormac]

We are a nation of laws. We pride ourselves on the order that our legal system instills. Yet we are also a nation of mercy and compassion; however, the fundamental question arises: If you commit a crime, should you be punished? That should be an easy answer, yet some insist upon exceptions to the law.

One such exception is illegal immigration. The majority of illegal immigrants come here to find work, yet the fact remains that they have still violated the law. They have taken jobs in critical industries, like construction, childcare, landscaping, manufacturing, etc. A majority of people insist upon a path to citizenship for these people, while others insist on deportation. Some claim that since these people are well-meaning, they shouldn't be rounded up and deported mercilessly.

But my question is, when do we enact the punishment? Why can't we punish them? They broke the law. Why should they be rewarded for breaching the sovereignty of another nation?

 

[candycorn]

We are a nation of laws. We pride ourselves on the order that our legal system instills. Yet we are also a nation of mercy and compassion; however, the fundamental question arises: If you commit a crime, should you be punished? That should be an easy answer, yet some insist upon exceptions to the law.

One such exception is illegal immigration. The majority of illegal immigrants come here to find work, yet the fact remains that they have still violated the law. They have taken jobs in critical industries, like construction, childcare, landscaping, manufacturing, etc. A majority of people insist upon a path to citizenship for these people, while others insist on deportation. Some claim that since these people are well-meaning, they shouldn't be rounded up and deported mercilessly.

But my question is, when do we enact the punishment? Why can't we punish them? They broke the law. Why should they be rewarded for breaching the sovereignty of another nation?

There is no exception for illegal immigration.

But if you're really worried about rewards for those who break the law...please explain your love of Ashley Babbitt; would you please?

 

[shockedcanadian]

There is no exception for illegal immigration.

But if you're really worried about rewards for those who break the law...please explain your love of Ashley Babbitt; would you please?

Well that is a different question. That isnt if a crime should be punished but rather "should the punishment fit the crime or should we be a nation of extra-judicial punisment"? This would be a similiar approach to how Canada, Russia and China operate against their citizens. You dont murder an unarmed person in cold blood when your life isn't threatened by said person.

 

[TemplarKormac]

There is no exception for illegal immigration.

But if you're really worried about rewards for those who break the law...please explain your love of Ashley Babbitt; would you please?

I said nothing of Ashli Babbitt. Please focus on the question, if you will.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

We are a nation of laws. We pride ourselves on the order that our legal system instills. Yet we are also a nation of mercy and compassion; however, the fundamental question arises: If you commit a crime, should you be punished? That should be an easy answer, yet some insist upon exceptions to the law.

One such exception is illegal immigration. The majority of illegal immigrants come here to find work, yet the fact remains that they have still violated the law. They have taken jobs in critical industries, like construction, childcare, landscaping, manufacturing, etc. A majority of people insist upon a path to citizenship for these people, while others insist on deportation. Some claim that since these people are well-meaning, they shouldn't be rounded up and deported mercilessly.

But my question is, when do we enact the punishment? Why can't we punish them? They broke the law. Why should they be rewarded for breaching the sovereignty of another nation?

I can't believe how difficult I'm finding it to answer your question.

In respect to those who entered the U.S. unlawfully, or intentionally overstayed their visas, what punishment would you like to see them face? Because there is going to be pushback if you want more than just to "punish" them, you want to inflict trauma and unnecessary suffering on them as well.

Then there is the situation of Trump who has been convicted of 34 felonies but escaped punishment when he was elected POTUS in 2024. Do you think he should be punished? What about the J6ers he pardoned who were convicted, do you think they should have been punished and/or not pardoned?

 

[Mac-7]

There is no exception for illegal immigration.

But if you're really worried about rewards for those who break the law...please explain your love of Ashley Babbitt; would you please?

Candycorn will never answer the question concerning illegal aliens

Hence the misdirection play

 

[TemplarKormac]

you want to inflict trauma and unnecessary suffering on them as well.

I disagree. They understood the risk of coming here illegally. They need to understand the consequences. It is quite unfair to expect traditional consequences for legal citizens who break the law, but modified or very little consequence for those who abuse it by coming here illegally or overstaying their visas.

Any trauma and suffering that results is of their own making, Mariyam.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Well that is a different question. That isnt if a crime should be punished but rather "should the punishment fit the crime or should we be a nation of extra-judicial punisment"? This would be a similiar approach to how Canada, Russia and China operate against their citizens. You dont murder an unarmed person in cold blood when your life isn't threatened by said person.

Ashli Babbitt was NOT MURDERED nor was she unarmed.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Then there is the situation of Trump who has been convicted of 34 felonies but escaped punishment when he was elected POTUS in 2024.

That is irrelevant. It is an attempt at deflection. Tu quoque. Whataboutism.

 

[Mac-7]

I can't believe how difficult I'm finding it to answer your question.

In respect to those who entered the U.S. unlawfully, or intentionally overstayed their visas, what punishment would you like to see them face? Because there is going to be pushback if you want more than just to "punish" them, you want to inflict trauma and unnecessary suffering on them as well.

Then there is the situation of Trump who has been convicted of 34 felonies but escaped punishment when he was elected POTUS in 2024. Do you think he should be punished? What about the J6ers he pardoned who were convicted, do you think they should have been punished and/or not pardoned?

Trump was the victim of lib lawfare

I.E. gaming the judicial system for political gain

Illegal aliens are guilty of violating immigration laws passed by both political parties

 

[TemplarKormac]

I can't believe how difficult I'm finding it to answer your question.

From my perspective, the answer is simple. Negative action brings about negative consequence. So, why are illegal immigrants somehow exempt from the natural order of things?

 

[TemplarKormac]

In respect to those who entered the U.S. unlawfully, or intentionally overstayed their visas, what punishment would you like to see them face?

Simple, the punishment meted out by our immigration law. Deportation. That's it.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

I disagree. They understood the risk of coming here illegally. They need to understand the consequences. It is quite unfair to expect traditional consequences for legal citizens who break the law, but modified or very little consequence for those who abuse it by coming here illegally or overstaying their visas.

Any trauma and suffering that results is of their own making, Mariyam.

The punishment for them should be equitable to the offense they've committed. There is a difference between a criminal offense and a civil offense although if they both result in the same situation - being in the country unlawfully, for some there is little to no difference. Still they could do it more humanely.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

That is irrelevant. It is an attempt at deflection. Tu quoque. Whataboutism.

It is not irrelevant, it's a direct response to your OP

If you commit a crime, should you be punished?"​

Trump didn't just commit a crime, he was convicted of said crime. So while your perspective regarding people in the country unlawfully is valid, that they should be deported and why aren't they being deported, my question is just as valid because why call out one criminal but not the other?

Or maybe just reword your OP.

 

[TemplarKormac]

The punishment for them should be equitable to the offense they've committed

Agreed. Deportation. It is not cruel or unusual. It does not violate any of the limited constitutional rights they have upon being tried for this offense.

They can claim asylum if need be, or try to do what Kilmar Abrego Garcia did by claiming fear for his life. But even those things can be abused.

 

[TemplarKormac]

It is not irrelevant, it's a direct response to your OP

If you commit a crime, should you be punished?"​

Trump didn't just commit a crime, he was convicted of said crime. So while your perspective regarding people in the country unlawfully is valid, that they should be deported and why aren't they being deported, my question is just as valid because why call out one criminal but not the other?

Madam, Trump is not the subject of this thread. Kindly address the topic. Thank you.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Ashli Babbitt was NOT MURDERED nor was she unarmed.

You should probably stop drinking the cool-aid.

Really? Did the guy who shot her have x-ray vision and know.she secretly had a pocket knife, for which she was going to pounce like a cheetah and take down the Capitol? "Ashli Babbitt was shot while attempting to climb through a barricaded door during the January 6 Capitol riot. Although some reports initially described her as unarmed, a knife was later found in her pants pocket after the shooting."

 

[JGalt]

There is no exception for illegal immigration.

But if you're really worried about rewards for those who break the law...please explain your love of Ashley Babbitt; would you please?

Ashli Babbitt was killed while climbing through a broken window. Ashli did not break the window, one rioter, Zachary Jordan Alam, smashed a glass window beside the doors. Ashli did no damage or violence, and was not a threat while climbing through a window. If she had lived, she would have been charged with a simple misdemeanor.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

From my perspective, the answer is simple. Negative action brings about negative consequence. So, why are illegal immigrants somehow exempt from the natural order of things?

Somehow our courts & society overlooked specific manifestations of the implementation of the 14th Amendment, to the detriment of people of African descent and to the benefit of those entering the country illegally to establish birthright citizenship for their offspring.

This could not occur for the more than 100 years that it has unless someone or some entity who is very powerful WANTS it this way.

As we have seen, SCOTUS STILL has not ruled on Trump's birthright citizenship EO but it looks like the CASA plaintiffs will get what they want. Eventually.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Really? Did the guy who shot her have x-ray vision and know.she secretly had a pocket knife, for which she was going to pounce like a cheetah and take down the Capitol? "Ashli Babbitt was shot while attempting to climb through a barricaded door during the January 6 Capitol riot. Although some reports initially described her as unarmed, a knife was later found in her pants pocket after the shooting."

What do you know about the lawful use of a firearm in the United States because you're not demonstrating much knowledge on the topic via your comments