If Obama-Care Is Struck Down,Does That Mean Small Business Will Start Hiring?Oh Noo !

[RightWingFerret]

Obama braggs on how he has created over 4 million jobs as if it is a huge accomplishment, He would of bragged just as much if he created 2 million jobs. Yet he never mentions the 20 or so million still long term unemployed/part time and financially suffering,,,,,getting women in the Augusta Mens Club is alot more important.

 

[Jarhead]

Let's look at what the National Federation of Independent Business has to say on this...they've been tracking this stuff for awhile now.

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http://www.nfib.com/Portals/0/PDF/sbet/sbet201009.pdf


Know what is worse than a blowhard? An IGNORANT blowhard.

Do you see what that chart says? It says that on regulation and taxes, businesses feel just about as comfortable as they did with Ronald Reagan.

LYING won't beat Obama.

and lying about YOUR ideology wont help the credibility and integrity of your posts.

 

[Jarhead]

Obama braggs on how he has created over 4 million jobs as if it is a huge accomplishment, He would of bragged just as much if he created 2 million jobs. Yet he never mentions the 20 or so million still long term unemployed/part time and financially suffering,,,,,getting women in the Augusta Mens Club is alot more important.

he also doesnt mention the millions of jobs lost while he was creating those 4 million jobs.

and those jobs lost werent by accident.

It was basic free market economics with artificial intervention.,

If you artifically prop up a company during a recession, the comnpetitors of that company will struggle more..

Why?

Being artificially propped up with capital gives you the tools necessary to market more, offer lower prices than the rest...and corner the market.

And what haoppens when you corner the market?

Your weaker competition fails.

And why were they weaker? Becuase they were in a recession and were not artificially propped up.

Of course....his 100 top economists forgot to mention this to him....you know those economists....the 100 guys and gals who are the best in the country at analyzing the economy but didnt realize the economy was as bad as it was? You know the ones I am talking about...the ones who were paid to do only one thing...analyze the exact condition of the economy.

Those guys.

 

[mudwhistle]

I'm thinking to myself just how Obama will find a way of screwing this up and using it to his advantage.

Seems to me the first will be leaving the cutbacks in Medicare in place......and blaming this on the GOP.

 

[RightWingFerret]

Out of curiosity, what was the unemployment rate at this point of the Reagan Administration? and how many jobs were created by the end of 1984?

 

[mudwhistle]

Yes. I am a small business owner.

You laid off employees because your demand was reduced. If you have unmet demand, you will hire to meet it. Period.

You are telling me that your health insurance costs....which are voluntary on your part.....have forced you to lay off 4 employees.......even though you need them to run your business?

That is ridiculous.

BTW....if we had the system that Obama really wants......you wouldn't have any health insurance costs....and every one of your employees would have the health care that they need to help keep your business running.

But who gets to pay for it????

All of the bad news was set to hit in 2013 and 2014 when all of the wavers were set to expire. We still don't know the IRS ramifications for this year.

I seriously hope you can stay in business......your chances of it will go up once Obamacare is overturned.

 

[mudwhistle]

Let's look at what the National Federation of Independent Business has to say on this...they've been tracking this stuff for awhile now.

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

http://www.nfib.com/Portals/0/PDF/sbet/sbet201009.pdf


Know what is worse than a blowhard? An IGNORANT blowhard.

Do you see what that chart says? It says that on regulation and taxes, businesses feel just about as comfortable as they did with Ronald Reagan.

LYING won't beat Obama.

Dude.....you do realize your avi is a Zombie.....don't you???

 

[Katzndogz]

There are now so many regulations in place, that and end to the health care bill probably won't make a difference. It would have made things worse, but not having it won't make things better.

obama signed the jobs bill making business loans easier to get. However, there is so much red tape associate with those loans it's unlikely that business owners will be able to take advange of them. Which gives obama another talking point. He made the offer and no one took him up on it.

 

[Katzndogz]

Small businesses will continue to move forward cautiously until Obama is back in Chicago. Our health insurance has doubled since 2009, and deductibles and out of pocket have also doubled. I can take away my employees health care or we can hire another employee............not to mention the HUGE increases in unemployment taxes.

Yea, demand is the only thing holding small businesses back. /s

I can sympathize. I had a little post-retirement business. My accountant told me that I would not survive obama's policies and advised me to close before I was forced out and left with a huge tax liability so I closed. My daugher in law was working for a little start up lingerie company. It was doing very well, growing rapidly, when their accountant told them that no matter how fast they were able to grow, they wouldn't outrun obama's taxes. They too closed before they were left with a huge tax bill. I know now, that even if I survived obama's policies up to this point, I would not have made it past the rising energy costs so I did get good advice.

 

[healthmyths]

Minus the paranoid mania, it is an interesting point. If it does get struck down and there is not an immediate flood of hiring it would mean that the charge that it was stifling economic growth is false.

The MAJOR problem ALL businesses have is the burdensome growing government regulations such as Obamacare generates!


Case in point..
Obama clearly LIED when he said:
"If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan, period.
No one will take it away, no matter what."

YET because:
"pre-existing conditions" are not allowed in determining premiums.
Insurance companies WILL NOT know what potential claims they will have to pay! i.e. NO pre-existing conditions" to plan to pay claims and build reserves for those claims! NO way of knowing how much or how many claims based on historical data.. i.e. smokers file more cancer claims then non-smokers..FACT!
And so why would ANY business hire more people if the employer health insurance costs rise! It is a fact that's what is happening ALREADY!

A significant number of employers will at least think about dropping coverage.

That point was driven home again Wednesday with the release of another survey on how companies plan to address the sweeping changes generated by the Affordable Care Act of 2010.

The latest results come from professional services firm Towers Watson, which said 9% of the midsize and large companies it recently polled plan to drop employer-sponsored health insurance after the Affordable Care Act takes effect in 2014.

 

[Katzndogz]

Between the time obamacare was written and now, there have been so many regulations put into place that an explosion in hiring will not take place.

Even if obamacare is struck, will that stop energy prices from skyrocketing, as promised? Will it stop the EPA from closing power plants and shutting down coal mines? No. Will it prevent businesses who can't operate with these exhorbitant costs from closing? No.

 

[Jarhead]

Yes. I am a small business owner.

You laid off employees because your demand was reduced. If you have unmet demand, you will hire to meet it. Period.

You are telling me that your health insurance costs....which are voluntary on your part.....have forced you to lay off 4 employees.......even though you need them to run your business?

That is ridiculous.

BTW....if we had the system that Obama really wants......you wouldn't have any health insurance costs....and every one of your employees would have the health care that they need to help keep your business running.

No.

You are not a business owner for if you were a business owner you would not have overlooked the fact tha she included "unemployment costs" as one of the reasons.....say what you want about healthcare costs.....but a REAL business owner would be well aware that many businesses were forced to trim based on a dramatic increase in their unemployemnt costs...bear in mind...not only the first...BUT THE SECOND employer of record shares in those costs.....but you would know that already if you were a buisness owner.

So once again, another liar is exposed.

Oh yeah...and a bsuiness owner would be well aware that whereas healthcare costs ARE voluntary, it is a morale killer if you were to discontinue covering healthcare....and as a business planner I can assure you that "morale" is a primary factor when deciding something that may have a negative affect on the empolyees. When you discontinue healthcare, the entire payrol complians to each other...and work ethic suffers. When you lay off, trhere is a slight affect on marale of the remaining employees, but work ethic doeswnt suffer for "fear" of being next motivates them.

But you would know that if you were a business owner.

No. You are not a business owner. You are a liar.

LMAO..it was like when that guy zeke (I think it was Zeke) claimed to have been a loan agent for X amount of years so he jknows the woes and the causes of the woes of the ledning industry better than all....but then fell into my trap when he defined FM as an entity that WRITES loans.....all in the industry know that FM do not write loans.

Love those that lie to try to come across as credible.

I find it pathetic.

 

[mudwhistle]

A small-business owner can be someone operating it out of their home.

 

[naturegirl]

Yes. I am a small business owner.

You laid off employees because your demand was reduced. If you have unmet demand, you will hire to meet it. Period.

You are telling me that your health insurance costs....which are voluntary on your part.....have forced you to lay off 4 employees.......even though you need them to run your business?

That is ridiculous.

BTW....if we had the system that Obama really wants......you wouldn't have any health insurance costs....and every one of your employees would have the health care that they need to help keep your business running.

No.

You are not a business owner for if you were a business owner you would not have overlooked the fact tha she included "unemployment costs" as one of the reasons.....say what you want about healthcare costs.....but a REAL business owner would be well aware that many businesses were forced to trim based on a dramatic increase in their unemployemnt costs...bear in mind...not only the first...BUT THE SECOND employer of record shares in those costs.....but you would know that already if you were a buisness owner.

So once again, another liar is exposed.

Oh yeah...and a bsuiness owner would be well aware that whereas healthcare costs ARE voluntary, it is a morale killer if you were to discontinue covering healthcare....and as a business planner I can assure you that "morale" is a primary factor when deciding something that may have a negative affect on the empolyees. When you discontinue healthcare, the entire payrol complians to each other...and work ethic suffers. When you lay off, trhere is a slight affect on marale of the remaining employees, but work ethic doeswnt suffer for "fear" of being next motivates them.

But you would know that if you were a business owner.

No. You are not a business owner. You are a liar.

LMAO..it was like when that guy zeke (I think it was Zeke) claimed to have been a loan agent for X amount of years so he jknows the woes and the causes of the woes of the ledning industry better than all....but then fell into my trap when he defined FM as an entity that WRITES loans.....all in the industry know that FM do not write loans.

Love those that lie to try to come across as credible.

I find it pathetic.

I just don't understand why the left has to resort to lying to try to make a point.

You'd think they are all politicians. I agree, he's not a business owner. At least not one that has employees that depend on him. Yes, I'll just tell my employees they're on their own or they can depend on Obamacare for their health insurance. That'll make the feel real good.

He also missed the point about me having to work 60 hrs per week, and my husband has to as well. Let's see my 20 extra hours + his 20 extra hours = 40 hours or another employee.

 

[Jarhead]

Yes. I am a small business owner.

You laid off employees because your demand was reduced. If you have unmet demand, you will hire to meet it. Period.

You are telling me that your health insurance costs....which are voluntary on your part.....have forced you to lay off 4 employees.......even though you need them to run your business?

That is ridiculous.

BTW....if we had the system that Obama really wants......you wouldn't have any health insurance costs....and every one of your employees would have the health care that they need to help keep your business running.

No.

You are not a business owner for if you were a business owner you would not have overlooked the fact tha she included "unemployment costs" as one of the reasons.....say what you want about healthcare costs.....but a REAL business owner would be well aware that many businesses were forced to trim based on a dramatic increase in their unemployemnt costs...bear in mind...not only the first...BUT THE SECOND employer of record shares in those costs.....but you would know that already if you were a buisness owner.

So once again, another liar is exposed.

Oh yeah...and a bsuiness owner would be well aware that whereas healthcare costs ARE voluntary, it is a morale killer if you were to discontinue covering healthcare....and as a business planner I can assure you that "morale" is a primary factor when deciding something that may have a negative affect on the empolyees. When you discontinue healthcare, the entire payrol complians to each other...and work ethic suffers. When you lay off, trhere is a slight affect on marale of the remaining employees, but work ethic doeswnt suffer for "fear" of being next motivates them.

But you would know that if you were a business owner.

No. You are not a business owner. You are a liar.

LMAO..it was like when that guy zeke (I think it was Zeke) claimed to have been a loan agent for X amount of years so he jknows the woes and the causes of the woes of the ledning industry better than all....but then fell into my trap when he defined FM as an entity that WRITES loans.....all in the industry know that FM do not write loans.

Love those that lie to try to come across as credible.

I find it pathetic.

I just don't understand why the left has to resort to lying to try to make a point.

You'd think they are all politicians. I agree, he's not a business owner. At least not one that has employees that depend on him. Yes, I'll just tell my employees they're on their own or they can depend on Obamacare for their health insurance. That'll make the feel real good.

He also missed the point about me having to work 60 hrs per week, and my husband has to as well. Let's see my 20 extra hours + his 20 extra hours = 40 hours or another employee.

Two things happened during this recession..

First...companies, when they laid off employees due to a drop in demand (recession) started to evaluate the output of certain positions. For example...for 10 years they had two receptionists.....when they had to trim, they looked at the roles of both receptionsists and realized that whereas 2 were necessary 10 years ago, only one was really needed now becuase of voice mail and phone systems wuith direct extension numbers....

Second....business owners did exactly what you did....went from working 40 hours (or less a week) to working 60 hours a week....and spouses jumped in and helped.

A real business owner would be aware of these two factors.

 

[Jarhead]

Yes. I am a small business owner.

You laid off employees because your demand was reduced. If you have unmet demand, you will hire to meet it. Period.

You are telling me that your health insurance costs....which are voluntary on your part.....have forced you to lay off 4 employees.......even though you need them to run your business?

That is ridiculous.

BTW....if we had the system that Obama really wants......you wouldn't have any health insurance costs....and every one of your employees would have the health care that they need to help keep your business running.

No.

You are not a business owner for if you were a business owner you would not have overlooked the fact tha she included "unemployment costs" as one of the reasons.....say what you want about healthcare costs.....but a REAL business owner would be well aware that many businesses were forced to trim based on a dramatic increase in their unemployemnt costs...bear in mind...not only the first...BUT THE SECOND employer of record shares in those costs.....but you would know that already if you were a buisness owner.

So once again, another liar is exposed.

Oh yeah...and a bsuiness owner would be well aware that whereas healthcare costs ARE voluntary, it is a morale killer if you were to discontinue covering healthcare....and as a business planner I can assure you that "morale" is a primary factor when deciding something that may have a negative affect on the empolyees. When you discontinue healthcare, the entire payrol complians to each other...and work ethic suffers. When you lay off, trhere is a slight affect on marale of the remaining employees, but work ethic doeswnt suffer for "fear" of being next motivates them.

But you would know that if you were a business owner.

No. You are not a business owner. You are a liar.

LMAO..it was like when that guy zeke (I think it was Zeke) claimed to have been a loan agent for X amount of years so he jknows the woes and the causes of the woes of the ledning industry better than all....but then fell into my trap when he defined FM as an entity that WRITES loans.....all in the industry know that FM do not write loans.

Love those that lie to try to come across as credible.

I find it pathetic.

I just don't understand why the left has to resort to lying to try to make a point.

You'd think they are all politicians. I agree, he's not a business owner. At least not one that has employees that depend on him. Yes, I'll just tell my employees they're on their own or they can depend on Obamacare for their health insurance. That'll make the feel real good.

He also missed the point about me having to work 60 hrs per week, and my husband has to as well. Let's see my 20 extra hours + his 20 extra hours = 40 hours or another employee.

Actrually, I find some on the right do the exact same thing...and I call them out on it as well.

Your post made it quiote apparent to me that you are a business owner...and what you did is EXACTLY what small business owners across the country did....

Why do they lie?

Becuase they dont have the argument tio refute the fact that is presented to them...so they say they are an expert in the field...sort of like I did...although I presented WHY my facts are valid and HOW they are valid...I didnt do what laugher did....simply say I am a business owner....or zeke simply saying I am a loan officer.....

 

[candycorn]

And why hasn't this issue been brought up by the media? Obama-Care is one main reasons small/medium business wont hire. And god forbid another two million jobs get created after the Supreme Court tosses the bill in the trash.
Obama wont tolerate unemployment close to 6%! If and when hundreds of thousands,maybe a few million find work thanks to the end of Obama-Care, most of them wont vote for Obama knowing they will likely lose their job if he's re-elected.

Wouldn't happen. The overarching thing businesses want is stability. Striking down the law will have the opposite effect. More instability. It is an either/or proposition. Either we pass sound healthcare reform and ask private insurers to shoulder more of the costs or we spend more tax monies on acute care.

Our overall census at the healthcare system I work for is down. Meaning that if you were to go into the hospitals we have, you would find just about 1 bed out of 15 empty in a skilled nursing unit; The ordinary hospital bed. If you were to go into the ICU, you'd find every bed full and more patients on the way. We're building more beds as I write this. I can see the construction going on outside of my office window.

When I pay my occasional visits to the public healthcare and charity hospitals, the situation is much worse except that the SNUs have patients in the corridors as well as in the hallways at ICU. And the waiting room for the emergency care center is almost always full.

The way to fix healthcare is to get more preventative measures in place. Unfortunately; education isn't working any longer. So there needs to be more invasive actions taken on the part of the government to drive costs down. My system wouldn't see one iota more patients because of Obamacare. We couldn't; LOL. However, what you would see is a smaller population at the hospitals the taxpayers are already paying for. The reason is because people would be able to get their maladies checked out before they become full fledged crisis situations.

Personally, I feel that the best way to go about intervening isn't with this massive law but with more public hospitals so if you want to go in for a check-up you can be seen sometime that day. Not having to report to the emergency room which, in our case, makes the costs about 8 fold. I'm sure the public sector's numbers are about the same.

 

[cblackink]

Doesn't all this still boil down to demand for a service or product? I mean, if you own a business and you're getting so much business, you HAVE to hire a certain number of employees in order to service your customers. I think that's really the bottom line. If your business ISN'T increasing and yet your healthcare and unemployment insurance is increasing, that's a separate factor. So these are two separate issues to be considered.


www.cleantv.com
www.888webtoday.com

 

[Vel]

Small businesses will continue to move forward cautiously until Obama is back in Chicago. Our health insurance has doubled since 2009, and deductibles and out of pocket have also doubled. I can take away my employees health care or we can hire another employee............not to mention the HUGE increases in unemployment taxes.

Yea, demand is the only thing holding small businesses back. /s

You are a liar or you have an incredibly poor personnel manager.

Demand is the ONLY thing that determines small business hiring.

What absolute ignorance. Demand is NOT the ONLY thing that determines small business hiring. Needing another employee does not always mean you can AFFORD another employee. Inflation ( primarily from energy prices and increased health insurance premiums ) is currently consuming profits.

 

[RightWingFerret]

anyone suspicious that one of the reasons Obama needs Obama-Care is to kill off as many conservative/GOP seniors as possible? aka/ death panels?