IF higher taxes will create jobs, why did the stimulus fail?

[bripat9643]

132041000 - 131028000 = 1,013,000

We have obviously not "lost over 5 million jobs, maybe as many as 7 million" between the passage of the stimulus bill and today.

Perhaps you prefer fuzzy math.

Your error is in forgetting that in order just to keep even the economy has to produce several hundred thousand jobs every month. In order to recover the economy has to produce way more jobs than in a normal month.

 

[8537]

132041000 - 131028000 = 1,013,000

We have obviously not "lost over 5 million jobs, maybe as many as 7 million" between the passage of the stimulus bill and today.

Perhaps you prefer fuzzy math.

Your error is in forgetting that in order just to keep even the economy has to produce several hundred thousand jobs every month. In order to recover the economy has to produce way more jobs than in a normal month.

That's not an error on my part. JRK claimed we had lost 5 to 7 million jobs since the stimulus passed. That is pure fiction, a lie.

Of course, other people jump in to defend and excuse the lie....

The economy has been producing about 200,000 per month for the past several months, and that has been enough to sustain mild economic growth thanks to significant productivity gains.

 

[Toro]

We have not lost 5-7 million jobs since the Stimulus passed. That's fiction.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Do not post numbers from a source without a link. Let others see for themselves.
For all we know, those BLS numbers are a raw count of jobs available and not the number of people working. They could be part time. Or seasonal. Agricultural.

Everyone has equal access to the output survey at U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. Since it's a custom output you can't link to it.

Of course, if you go to bls.gov you can confirm those nonfarm payroll numbers for yourself.

For example your side continues to complain about the loss of manufacturing jobs and especially those which used to be union jobs. Yet at the same time you are boasting at how few jobs have been lost.
You can't have it both ways just to suit your political agenda.

What the **** are you talking about?



From the BLS.

BTW,, GM has paid back a very small portion of their bailout and had to borrow money form other sources to pay that. GM is still owned by the American taxpayer.

Did you read what I wrote or are you just making shit up? Let's review what I said:

GM has paid back the debt portion of their loan. They have not paid back the equity portion.

Don't tell us that the CBO scored anything.

Why not? The CBO scored it.

On GM unlike you I posted a link that presents facts. Not someone's opinion.
GM has paid back less than 20% of the total amount loaned and that does not include the $13 billion the Obama admin counted as "investment".
The part GM did pay back was with money the company borrowed.
On the BLS....An "output survey"?....Please.
Ok, for a moment I will stipulate the BLS figures are totally independent of any political pressure from the White House and that all BLS managers are non-partisan.
Let's look at the reality of the United States and the people. The White House and the main stream media can trumpet these successes all day long and that still does not make a difference. People are not finding work and those looking are finding they have to accept lower paying jobs or those not in their field of expertise. The housing market continues to stumble for one reason. That is interference from the federal government. The housing market will not recover until it is allowed to bottom out.
The value of the US Dollar although it has recovered some of it's losses recently is still in a decades low position vs other major currencies. That has driven the price of oil and gas upwards and the reason why even though the price of oil has fallen since the 3rd of May, the price of gas has stayed steady or has dropped only a slight amount.
Yes one can place some of the blame on speculation in commodities markets. Since oil and gasoline are traded in US Dollars, the lower value of the USD drives up the price paid due to inflation. For example if one day the price for a 42 gallon barrel is $100. and the DOllar is worth $1. Next day the price of oil is unchanged. However the USD is now worth 98 cents. Well guess what? Even though the actual price of oil was unchanged in that day's trading, the price went up because the value of the USD fell.
All of the above are the result of the Obama administration's insistence on meddling in the economy that if not for this interference would have rebounded already.
So you can quote BLS stats and all the nonsense as much as you like. It doesn't change a thing.

 

[thereisnospoon]

132041000 - 131028000 = 1,013,000

We have obviously not "lost over 5 million jobs, maybe as many as 7 million" between the passage of the stimulus bill and today.

Perhaps you prefer fuzzy math.

Your error is in forgetting that in order just to keep even the economy has to produce several hundred thousand jobs every month. In order to recover the economy has to produce way more jobs than in a normal month.

That's not an error on my part. JRK claimed we had lost 5 to 7 million jobs since the stimulus passed. That is pure fiction, a lie.

Of course, other people jump in to defend and excuse the lie....

The economy has been producing about 200,000 per month for the past several months, and that has been enough to sustain mild economic growth thanks to significant productivity gains.

Really? And you got that figure from where?
If the economy....check that....business was adding 200,000 private sector
jobs per month, in which fields are these jobs. What companies? Industries?

 

[The Rabbi]

Total 2008 job loss: 2.6 million - Jan. 9, 2009
Roubini: 6 Million US Job Losses in 2009 | The Big Picture

That;s 8.6M jobs lost in 2 years right there.

 

[8537]

On GM unlike you I posted a link that presents facts. Not someone's opinion.
GM has paid back less than 20% of the total amount loaned and that does not include the $13 billion the Obama admin counted as "investment".
The part GM did pay back was with money the company borrowed.

Are you attempting to disagree just for the sake of disagreeing? You realize we're in agreement here - right? The debt portion is repaid. The equity portion is not - and can not be until the government sells its shares.

On the BLS....An "output survey"?....Please.

Yes. If you knew a single thing about how to process output on the BLS website you'd know what I'm talking about. But I have no such expectations.

Ok, for a moment I will stipulate the BLS figures are totally independent of any political pressure from the White House and that all BLS managers are non-partisan.
Let's look at the reality of the United States and the people. The White House and the main stream media can trumpet these successes all day long and that still does not make a difference. People are not finding work and those looking are finding they have to accept lower paying jobs or those not in their field of expertise. The housing market continues to stumble for one reason. That is interference from the federal government. The housing market will not recover until it is allowed to bottom out.

Is this a long way of excusing your cohort who is lying about jobs numbers? If so, it's a weak attempt.

 

[8537]

Your error is in forgetting that in order just to keep even the economy has to produce several hundred thousand jobs every month. In order to recover the economy has to produce way more jobs than in a normal month.

That's not an error on my part. JRK claimed we had lost 5 to 7 million jobs since the stimulus passed. That is pure fiction, a lie.

Of course, other people jump in to defend and excuse the lie....

The economy has been producing about 200,000 per month for the past several months, and that has been enough to sustain mild economic growth thanks to significant productivity gains.

Really? And you got that figure from where?
If the economy....check that....business was adding 200,000 private sector
jobs per month, in which fields are these jobs. What companies? Industries?

last month the economy added 264,000 private-sector jobs. This information is readily available from the BLS. As for the industries involved:

retail trade added 57,000
professional and business services added 51,000
health care added 37,000
leisure and hospitality added 46,000
manufacturing added 29,000
mining added 11,000

 

[8537]

Total 2008 job loss: 2.6 million - Jan. 9, 2009
Roubini: 6 Million US Job Losses in 2009 | The Big Picture

That;s 8.6M jobs lost in 2 years right there.

Why would jobs lost before the stimulus (and before Obama took office) be counted by JRK as job losses since the stimulus passed?

I'm not sure if you know this, but you are not required to defend other stupid posters.

 

[The Rabbi]

Total 2008 job loss: 2.6 million - Jan. 9, 2009
Roubini: 6 Million US Job Losses in 2009 | The Big Picture

That;s 8.6M jobs lost in 2 years right there.

Why would jobs lost before the stimulus (and before Obama took office) be counted by JRK as job losses since the stimulus passed?

I'm not sure if you know this, but you are not required to defend other stupid posters.

I couldn't readily find figures for 2010 and this part of 2011. Maybe that's where they are.

In any case, this recovery is teh weakest on record with the worst job creation, despite (actually, because) the gov'ts spending trillions of dollars and other massive interventions.
That is simply a fact. Obamanomics is a gross failure.

 

[8537]

Total 2008 job loss: 2.6 million - Jan. 9, 2009
Roubini: 6 Million US Job Losses in 2009 | The Big Picture

That;s 8.6M jobs lost in 2 years right there.

Why would jobs lost before the stimulus (and before Obama took office) be counted by JRK as job losses since the stimulus passed?

I'm not sure if you know this, but you are not required to defend other stupid posters.

I couldn't readily find figures for 2010 and this part of 2011. Maybe that's where they are.

U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

You don't need to defend other peoples' lies.

 

[thereisnospoon]

On GM unlike you I posted a link that presents facts. Not someone's opinion.
GM has paid back less than 20% of the total amount loaned and that does not include the $13 billion the Obama admin counted as "investment".
The part GM did pay back was with money the company borrowed.

Are you attempting to disagree just for the sake of disagreeing? You realize we're in agreement here - right? The debt portion is repaid. The equity portion is not - and can not be until the government sells its shares.

On the BLS....An "output survey"?....Please.

Yes. If you knew a single thing about how to process output on the BLS website you'd know what I'm talking about. But I have no such expectations.

Ok, for a moment I will stipulate the BLS figures are totally independent of any political pressure from the White House and that all BLS managers are non-partisan.
Let's look at the reality of the United States and the people. The White House and the main stream media can trumpet these successes all day long and that still does not make a difference. People are not finding work and those looking are finding they have to accept lower paying jobs or those not in their field of expertise. The housing market continues to stumble for one reason. That is interference from the federal government. The housing market will not recover until it is allowed to bottom out.

Is this a long way of excusing your cohort who is lying about jobs numbers? If so, it's a weak attempt.

Just pointing out the facts. All the rest is between you and the OP.

 

[JRK]

Total 2008 job loss: 2.6 million - Jan. 9, 2009
Roubini: 6 Million US Job Losses in 2009 | The Big Picture

That;s 8.6M jobs lost in 2 years right there.

Why would jobs lost before the stimulus (and before Obama took office) be counted by JRK as job losses since the stimulus passed?

I'm not sure if you know this, but you are not required to defend other stupid posters.

what 12 weeks prior to the stimulus?
Your trying to defend an event that cannot be defended
accurate information is not debatable, in addition and as I have stated those numbers do not count those who have give up and or are no longer in the system
What out problem with these events are simple, never allow a crises go to waste
close to 1 trillion dollars in tarp and stimulus, more really
no not all of it has been spent, but it has not been returned either

 

[Truthseeker420]

CBO finds 3.7M jobs created by stimulus

A report by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office shows the Recovery Act has increased the number of workers by between 1.2 million and 2.8 million. The CBO also projects that 3.7 million jobs could be attributed to the stimulus by the end of September.


The $787 billion measure included several tax cuts, including one for $400 ($800 per working couple) that showed up in workers' paychecks. It also created Build America Bonds, expanded unemployment insurance and funded several domestic spending programs.

Several of these provisions are now being expanded in legislation extending expiring measures that the House could vote on later Wednesday.

A rough estimate supplied by House Republicans shows the extender bill increases the cost of the stimulus by approximately $88 billion.


A Senate Democratic aide contends the extender bill does not increase the cost of the stimulus.

CBO finds 3.7M jobs created by stimulus - The Hill's On The Money

 

[Care4all]

unemployment rate hit 9.3% for Obama's first month in office....surely you are not silly enough to count that 9.3% as "Obama's" unemployment rate? There is nothing ANYONE could have done their first 4 weeks in office to change the upward trend of unemployment in this nation, in 4 weeks..... only a partisan hack would try to make that case imho. Just use your brain and think about it....seriously....

 

[JRK]

CBO finds 3.7M jobs created by stimulus

A report by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office shows the Recovery Act has increased the number of workers by between 1.2 million and 2.8 million. The CBO also projects that 3.7 million jobs could be attributed to the stimulus by the end of September.


The $787 billion measure included several tax cuts, including one for $400 ($800 per working couple) that showed up in workers' paychecks. It also created Build America Bonds, expanded unemployment insurance and funded several domestic spending programs.

Several of these provisions are now being expanded in legislation extending expiring measures that the House could vote on later Wednesday.

A rough estimate supplied by House Republicans shows the extender bill increases the cost of the stimulus by approximately $88 billion.


A Senate Democratic aide contends the extender bill does not increase the cost of the stimulus.

CBO finds 3.7M jobs created by stimulus - The Hill's On The Money

Its funny that the real job numbers show that we have lost over 6 million thru the same time period
How can any idiot, never mind

2008...... 136,790 114,281 21,334 767 7,162 13,406
2009...... 130,807 108,252 18,557 694 6,016 11,847

2010...... 129,818 107,337 17,755 705 5,526 11,524
2nd column in is private sector jobs
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.ceseeb1.txt

I do not care how this is spun
that 7 million jobs that does not include the millions that are not counted, give up and fell off of the radar
Real Unemployment Hits 10.3% in February

 

[JRK]

unemployment rate hit 9.3% for Obama's first month in office....surely you are not silly enough to count that 9.3% as "Obama's" unemployment rate? There is nothing ANYONE could have done their first 4 weeks in office to change the upward trend of unemployment in this nation, in 4 weeks..... only a partisan hack would try to make that case imho. Just use your brain and think about it....seriously....

1) the 9.3 I am sorry is a lie. This is why you should all ways use a link, then information provided by others you will not use, such as 8537
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.ceseeb1.txt
That link also will show form A to Z all kinds of info
2) again here are Govt numbers of people who have a job that are still on the radar from 12/3108 thru 12/31/10

2008...... 136,790 114,281 21,334 767 7,162 13,406
2009...... 130,807 108,252 18,557 694 6,016 11,847

2010...... 129,818 107,337 17,755 705 5,526 11,524
Note the private sector row, 2nd from left vs govt sector, (take row 1 from row 2)
Union teacher jobs, etc...
its the only jobs that have been really created

My issue has nothing to do with what Obama inherited
Its what he did with what he inherited
Never let a crises go to waste
UAW
NEA
Etc....
Etc....
Etc....

 

[JRK]

CBO finds 3.7M jobs created by stimulus

A report by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office shows the Recovery Act has increased the number of workers by between 1.2 million and 2.8 million. The CBO also projects that 3.7 million jobs could be attributed to the stimulus by the end of September.


The $787 billion measure included several tax cuts, including one for $400 ($800 per working couple) that showed up in workers' paychecks. It also created Build America Bonds, expanded unemployment insurance and funded several domestic spending programs.

Several of these provisions are now being expanded in legislation extending expiring measures that the House could vote on later Wednesday.

A rough estimate supplied by House Republicans shows the extender bill increases the cost of the stimulus by approximately $88 billion.


A Senate Democratic aide contends the extender bill does not increase the cost of the stimulus.

CBO finds 3.7M jobs created by stimulus - The Hill's On The Money

they cannot prove that on paper
I am not sure how one can come up with these numbers when the total number of jobs created sense 2008 is 0

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

IF higher taxes will create jobs, why did the stimulus fail?

The stimulus didn't raise taxes. It lowered them.

 

[The Rabbi]

IF higher taxes will create jobs, why did the stimulus fail?

The stimulus didn't raise taxes. It lowered them.

And it still failed.