Debate Now If Canada buys off U.S politicians is it collusion? Are there consequences for those on the take?

[shockedcanadian]

Now I don't know specifically who is on the take, but I have to consider Canadas history and what I know, and assume we have some U.S politicians on the payroll.

If so, is it collusion? And, should there be consequences for the guy on the take or Canada for bribing them?

I found this for reference:

Foreign Corrupt Practices Act
or FCPA. It seems to fall under your Justice Department

Foreign Corrupt Practices Act | CRIMINAL-FRAUD | Department of Justice

The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977, as amended, 15 U.S.C. §§ 78dd-1, et seq. ("FCPA"), was enacted for the purpose of making it unlawful for certain classes of persons and entities to make payments to foreign government officials to assist in obtaining or retaining business. Specifically, the anti-bribery provisions of the FCPA prohibit the willful use of the mails or any means of instrumentality of interstate commerce corruptly in furtherance of any offer, payment, promise to pay, or authorization of the payment of money or anything of value to any person, while knowing that all or a portion of such money or thing of value will be offered, given or promised, directly or indirectly, to a foreign official to influence the foreign official in his or her official capacity, induce the foreign official to do or omit to do an act in violation of his or her lawful duty, or to secure any improper advantage in order to assist in obtaining or retaining business for or with, or directing business to, any person.

 

[Two Thumbs]

I would assume that since it's a smart business practice to own, at least, one politician that it would also be good politics.

the leftist here want socialism, openly want it. How does that compare with Canada?

 

[shockedcanadian]

I would assume that since it's a smart business practice to own, at least, one politician that it would also be good politics.

the leftist here want socialism, openly want it. How does that compare with Canada?

So, Canada owning a U.S politician isn't something Americans should worry about, it's just "smart business? lol, if this is the prevailing opinion, what am I fighting for?

I am trying to help you NOT become like Canada, not to capitulate to us as we steal millions of your jobs.

 

[Two Thumbs]

I would assume that since it's a smart business practice to own, at least, one politician that it would also be good politics.

the leftist here want socialism, openly want it. How does that compare with Canada?

So, Canada owning a U.S politician isn't something Americans should worry about, it's just "smart business? lol, if this is the prevailing opinion, what am I fighting for?

I am trying to help you NOT become like Canada, not to capitulate to us as we steal millions of your jobs.

oh, I'm not saying it's right, I should have been more clear.


the people that would have been arrested for bribery - extortion - treason, all passed laws to make sure they, specifically, couldn't be.

 

[Natural Citizen]

I'm more concerned with the Israeli lobby.

As to the topic, I don't think any foreign actor should be lobbying our politicians. They are not the electorate.

 

[shockedcanadian]

I would assume that since it's a smart business practice to own, at least, one politician that it would also be good politics.

the leftist here want socialism, openly want it. How does that compare with Canada?

So, Canada owning a U.S politician isn't something Americans should worry about, it's just "smart business? lol, if this is the prevailing opinion, what am I fighting for?

I am trying to help you NOT become like Canada, not to capitulate to us as we steal millions of your jobs.

oh, I'm not saying it's right, I should have been more clear.


the people that would have been arrested for bribery - extortion - treason, all passed laws to make sure they, specifically, couldn't be.

What about the FCPA then?

I doubt this is not enforceable and as such, Canada must be a focus of the FBI and even CIA. You are talking about a foreign power bribing and wielding your government for the benefit of a foreign government. I would say any politician accepting that deal is involved in treason and should be held accountable. I can't imagine the U.S doesn't have laws on the books against this, or I suppose Open Borders would just speed up the inevitable process of turning you socialist.

 

[Toro]

What countries don't hire lobbyists in Washington?

 

[Two Thumbs]

I would assume that since it's a smart business practice to own, at least, one politician that it would also be good politics.

the leftist here want socialism, openly want it. How does that compare with Canada?

So, Canada owning a U.S politician isn't something Americans should worry about, it's just "smart business? lol, if this is the prevailing opinion, what am I fighting for?

I am trying to help you NOT become like Canada, not to capitulate to us as we steal millions of your jobs.

oh, I'm not saying it's right, I should have been more clear.


the people that would have been arrested for bribery - extortion - treason, all passed laws to make sure they, specifically, couldn't be.

What about the FCPA then?

I doubt this is not enforceable and as such, Canada must be a focus of the FBI and even CIA. You are talking about a foreign power bribing and wielding your government for the benefit of a foreign government. I would say any politician accepting that deal is involved in treason and should be held accountable. I can't imagine the U.S doesn't have laws on the books against this, or I suppose Open Borders would just speed up the inevitable process of turning you socialist.

not familiar with FCPA.


ask yourself how we get to have your oil in a pipeline.

does anyone actually think political favors weren't traded across the border?

anything can and will be spun to make it look like we benefited us and not you.

 

[Toro]

FTR, foreign nationals cannot donate to election campaigns.

Who can and can’t contribute - FEC.gov

 

[Toro]

Now I don't know specifically who is on the take, but I have to consider Canadas history and what I know, and assume we have some U.S politicians on the payroll.

If so, is it collusion? And, should there be consequences for the guy on the take or Canada for bribing them?

I found this for reference:

Foreign Corrupt Practices Act
or FCPA. It seems to fall under your Justice Department

Foreign Corrupt Practices Act | CRIMINAL-FRAUD | Department of Justice

The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977, as amended, 15 U.S.C. §§ 78dd-1, et seq. ("FCPA"), was enacted for the purpose of making it unlawful for certain classes of persons and entities to make payments to foreign government officials to assist in obtaining or retaining business. Specifically, the anti-bribery provisions of the FCPA prohibit the willful use of the mails or any means of instrumentality of interstate commerce corruptly in furtherance of any offer, payment, promise to pay, or authorization of the payment of money or anything of value to any person, while knowing that all or a portion of such money or thing of value will be offered, given or promised, directly or indirectly, to a foreign official to influence the foreign official in his or her official capacity, induce the foreign official to do or omit to do an act in violation of his or her lawful duty, or to secure any improper advantage in order to assist in obtaining or retaining business for or with, or directing business to, any person.

The FCPA is about companies bribing foreign governments. American corporations cannot bribe foreign government officials.

It is completely irrelevant to the premise of the OP, and has nothing to do with Canada, unless American companies are bribing Canadian politicians.

 

[shockedcanadian]

What countries don't hire lobbyists in Washington?

Yes, I agree. However, there has to be fair and equal outrage. I hear so much "Russia Russia" but nothing about how much money Hillary received. I now see some U.S politicians trying to take away Trumps ability to apply tariffs, I have to consider a country like Canada, UK or China pushing behind the scenes to have this done, a nice little suitcase left in someones office would suffice.

This completely undermines the U.S Republic and it surely would not survive unless there are consequences for said politicians. Don't you guys agree? Again, I've been keeping my finger on the pulse for selfish reasons, but also for benevolent purposes and I don't like what I read between the lines with certain actors...

Coupled with Canadas near zero, literally, enforcement of bribery, it's clear what our M.O is. For a nation that doesn't innovate or compete, it's the Fiefdom tactic.

 

[Two Thumbs]

FTR, foreign nationals cannot donate to election campaigns.

Who can and can’t contribute - FEC.gov

foreign nationals, not foreign countries....

for·eign na·tion·al
noun
noun: foreign national; plural noun: foreign nationals

1. a person who is not a naturalized citizen of the country in which they are living.
   "most of the students affected were said to be foreign nationals"

 

[shockedcanadian]

Now I don't know specifically who is on the take, but I have to consider Canadas history and what I know, and assume we have some U.S politicians on the payroll.

If so, is it collusion? And, should there be consequences for the guy on the take or Canada for bribing them?

I found this for reference:

Foreign Corrupt Practices Act
or FCPA. It seems to fall under your Justice Department

Foreign Corrupt Practices Act | CRIMINAL-FRAUD | Department of Justice

The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977, as amended, 15 U.S.C. §§ 78dd-1, et seq. ("FCPA"), was enacted for the purpose of making it unlawful for certain classes of persons and entities to make payments to foreign government officials to assist in obtaining or retaining business. Specifically, the anti-bribery provisions of the FCPA prohibit the willful use of the mails or any means of instrumentality of interstate commerce corruptly in furtherance of any offer, payment, promise to pay, or authorization of the payment of money or anything of value to any person, while knowing that all or a portion of such money or thing of value will be offered, given or promised, directly or indirectly, to a foreign official to influence the foreign official in his or her official capacity, induce the foreign official to do or omit to do an act in violation of his or her lawful duty, or to secure any improper advantage in order to assist in obtaining or retaining business for or with, or directing business to, any person.

The FCPA is about companies bribing foreign governments. American corporations cannot bribe foreign government officials.

It is completely irrelevant to the premise of the OP, and has nothing to do with Canada, unless American companies are bribing Canadian politicians.

I just posted it after searching, I don't know the exact statute in U.S law. I do know that one must exist. If it exists the Feds should be enforcing it, no? Is this about political fear so they don't? That would not be the system I've read so much about.

Canada has been useless in this enforcement, it has hurt Canada immensely, but also our allies who have businesses here and have Executives on the take. So, in Canada a big bribing country is China, without question. Even going so far as having politicians on the take via use of a Honeytrap. I'm sure Russia has some pull, and of course the usual suspects in Britain who probably don't even view it as corruption, since we are technically part of the monarchy

 

[Toro]

Now I don't know specifically who is on the take, but I have to consider Canadas history and what I know, and assume we have some U.S politicians on the payroll.

If so, is it collusion? And, should there be consequences for the guy on the take or Canada for bribing them?

I found this for reference:

Foreign Corrupt Practices Act
or FCPA. It seems to fall under your Justice Department

Foreign Corrupt Practices Act | CRIMINAL-FRAUD | Department of Justice

The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977, as amended, 15 U.S.C. §§ 78dd-1, et seq. ("FCPA"), was enacted for the purpose of making it unlawful for certain classes of persons and entities to make payments to foreign government officials to assist in obtaining or retaining business. Specifically, the anti-bribery provisions of the FCPA prohibit the willful use of the mails or any means of instrumentality of interstate commerce corruptly in furtherance of any offer, payment, promise to pay, or authorization of the payment of money or anything of value to any person, while knowing that all or a portion of such money or thing of value will be offered, given or promised, directly or indirectly, to a foreign official to influence the foreign official in his or her official capacity, induce the foreign official to do or omit to do an act in violation of his or her lawful duty, or to secure any improper advantage in order to assist in obtaining or retaining business for or with, or directing business to, any person.

The FCPA is about companies bribing foreign governments. American corporations cannot bribe foreign government officials.

It is completely irrelevant to the premise of the OP, and has nothing to do with Canada, unless American companies are bribing Canadian politicians.

I just posted it after searching, I don't know the exact statute in U.S law. I do know that one must exist. If it exists the Feds should be enforcing it, no? Is this about political fear so they don't? That would not be the system I've read so much about.

Canada has been useless in this enforcement, it has hurt Canada immensely, but also our allies who have businesses here and have Executives on the take. So, in Canada a big bribing country is China, without question. Even going so far as having politicians on the take via use of a Honeytrap. I'm sure Russia has some pull, and of course the usual suspects in Britain who probably don't even view it as corruption, since we are technically part of the monarchy

The statute you posted is irrelevant to your argument. You might as well have posted about parking ordinances in Kansas City.

No one can bribe politicians in the US, regardless of nationality.

However, it is perfectly legal for Americans and foreigners to pour money into lobbying firms to affect political outcomes.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Now I don't know specifically who is on the take, but I have to consider Canadas history and what I know, and assume we have some U.S politicians on the payroll.

If so, is it collusion? And, should there be consequences for the guy on the take or Canada for bribing them?

I found this for reference:

Foreign Corrupt Practices Act
or FCPA. It seems to fall under your Justice Department

Foreign Corrupt Practices Act | CRIMINAL-FRAUD | Department of Justice

The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977, as amended, 15 U.S.C. §§ 78dd-1, et seq. ("FCPA"), was enacted for the purpose of making it unlawful for certain classes of persons and entities to make payments to foreign government officials to assist in obtaining or retaining business. Specifically, the anti-bribery provisions of the FCPA prohibit the willful use of the mails or any means of instrumentality of interstate commerce corruptly in furtherance of any offer, payment, promise to pay, or authorization of the payment of money or anything of value to any person, while knowing that all or a portion of such money or thing of value will be offered, given or promised, directly or indirectly, to a foreign official to influence the foreign official in his or her official capacity, induce the foreign official to do or omit to do an act in violation of his or her lawful duty, or to secure any improper advantage in order to assist in obtaining or retaining business for or with, or directing business to, any person.

The FCPA is about companies bribing foreign governments. American corporations cannot bribe foreign government officials.

It is completely irrelevant to the premise of the OP, and has nothing to do with Canada, unless American companies are bribing Canadian politicians.

I just posted it after searching, I don't know the exact statute in U.S law. I do know that one must exist. If it exists the Feds should be enforcing it, no? Is this about political fear so they don't? That would not be the system I've read so much about.

Canada has been useless in this enforcement, it has hurt Canada immensely, but also our allies who have businesses here and have Executives on the take. So, in Canada a big bribing country is China, without question. Even going so far as having politicians on the take via use of a Honeytrap. I'm sure Russia has some pull, and of course the usual suspects in Britain who probably don't even view it as corruption, since we are technically part of the monarchy

The statute you posted is irrelevant to your argument. You might as well have posted about parking ordinances in Kansas City.

No one can bribe politicians in the US, regardless of nationality.

However, it is perfectly legal for Americans and foreigners to pour money into lobbying firms to affect political outcomes.

So, in effect, to bribe your politicians.

 

[Toro]

FTR, foreign nationals cannot donate to election campaigns.

Who can and can’t contribute - FEC.gov

foreign nationals, not foreign countries....

for·eign na·tion·al
noun
noun: foreign national; plural noun: foreign nationals

1. a person who is not a naturalized citizen of the country in which they are living.
   "most of the students affected were said to be foreign nationals"

All donations are public record.

Go find examples of foreign governments contributing to political campaigns.

 

[shockedcanadian]

FTR, foreign nationals cannot donate to election campaigns.

Who can and can’t contribute - FEC.gov

foreign nationals, not foreign countries....

for·eign na·tion·al
noun
noun: foreign national; plural noun: foreign nationals

1. a person who is not a naturalized citizen of the country in which they are living.
   "most of the students affected were said to be foreign nationals"

All donations are public record.

Go find examples of foreign governments contributing to political campaigns.

Ok nice. Is there a government website for that? I forgot, you guys have transparency haha. Believe me, this kind of stuff is NEVER transparent in Canada, even when politicians vote for their own pay increases.

 

[Toro]

So, in effect, to bribe your politicians.

Aren't all donations to lobbying firms bribing politicians?

You posted an irrelevant statute in your OP to imply that Canadians are doing something illegal in the US. They aren't. And they aren't doing anything different than any other country.

Your argument is a logical fallacy. There is a difference between lobbying and effecting campaigns. There's a difference between trying to get legislation passed in Parliament and trying to get the NDP elected in Ottawa or Queen's Park. Those are two different things. Lobbying is an attempt to shape legislation. It is not trying to shape the outcome of an election. But you are trying to conflate the two as being the same. They are not.

 

[shockedcanadian]

So, in effect, to bribe your politicians.

Aren't all donations to lobbying firms bribing politicians?

You posted an irrelevant statute in your OP to imply that Canadians are doing something illegal in the US. They aren't. And they aren't doing anything different than any other country.

Your argument is a logical fallacy. There is a difference between lobbying and effecting campaigns. There's a difference between trying to get legislation passed in Parliament and trying to get the NDP elected in Ottawa or Queen's Park. Those are two different things. Lobbying is an attempt to shape legislation. It is not trying to shape the outcome of an election. But you are trying to conflate the two as being the same. They are not.

You're insane if you think that big money doesn't sway an election. First of all.

Lobbying someone through money to enact legislation AFTER they are elected or giving someone money as they are fighting to get elected, is very much the same thing in my eyes.

Canada gave millions to the Clinton Foundation, we also had outspoken critics of Trump, as they did in England and elsewhere. These actions are designed to impact an election, just as someone using 13 Russians on facebook do. It's all about shaping opinion. Suggesting "Russia interfered in our election, but all the other stuff other countries did, was alright" is hypocrisy.

EVERYONE tries to influence and have their horse win, I am trying to find out how and to whom Canada is working behind the scenes to influence as we are not to shy in bragging about our efforts in Washington on CBC

 

[Toro]

So, in effect, to bribe your politicians.

Aren't all donations to lobbying firms bribing politicians?

You posted an irrelevant statute in your OP to imply that Canadians are doing something illegal in the US. They aren't. And they aren't doing anything different than any other country.

Your argument is a logical fallacy. There is a difference between lobbying and effecting campaigns. There's a difference between trying to get legislation passed in Parliament and trying to get the NDP elected in Ottawa or Queen's Park. Those are two different things. Lobbying is an attempt to shape legislation. It is not trying to shape the outcome of an election. But you are trying to conflate the two as being the same. They are not.

You're insane if you think that big money doesn't sway an election. First of all.

Lobbying someone through money to enact legislation AFTER they are elected or giving someone money as they are fighting to get elected, is very much the same thing in my eyes.

Canada gave millions to the Clinton Foundation, we also had outspoken critics of Trump, as they did in England and elsewhere. These actions are designed to impact an election, just as someone using 13 Russians on facebook do. It's all about shaping opinion. Suggesting "Russia interfered in our election, but all the other stuff other countries did, was alright" is hypocrisy.

EVERYONE tries to influence and have their horse win, I am trying to find out how and to whom Canada is working behind the scenes to influence as we are not to shy in bragging about our efforts in Washington on CBC

Of course big money affects elections. But you’ve shown no evidence that Canada is trying to affect US elections.

Instead, you are attempting to make a spurious connection between lobbying and elections. You are posting irrelevant statutes and examples to support your argument. Those are two different things. That’s why they are covered by different laws and regulations.