If A Terrorist Group of Mexicans

[P F Tinmore]

Loinboy- Explain:

Human Shields - Hamas in action - YouTube

Cool, the people volunteered to sit on this guys house to prevent the IDF (Israeli Destruction Force) from bombing his house. It angered a lot of people in the duh bomb'em crowd.

It is risking civilians on porpuse.

Just like the idiot Corrie tried to do.

There is nothing "cool" about stending in order to protect a bomb shelter from bring destroyed, then whine when Israel protects its people by destroying that bomb shelter.

it is really concerning you see using civilians (children among them) as "shields" to protect the house, as "cool".

But then again, your reason and mine work differently.

All that and Israel had no right to bomb that guy's house to begin with.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Loinboy- Explain:

Human Shields - Hamas in action - YouTube

Cool, the people volunteered to sit on this guys house to prevent the IDF (Israeli Destruction Force) from bombing his house. It angered a lot of people in the duh bomb'em crowd.

It is risking civilians on porpuse.

Just like the idiot Corrie tried to do.

There is nothing "cool" about stending in order to protect a bomb shelter from bring destroyed, then whine when Israel protects its people by destroying that bomb shelter.

it is really concerning you see using civilians (children among them) as "shields" to protect the house, as "cool".

But then again, your reason and mine work differently.

Did you forget the rules on this board?

 

[Lipush]

Cool, the people volunteered to sit on this guys house to prevent the IDF (Israeli Destruction Force) from bombing his house. It angered a lot of people in the duh bomb'em crowd.

It is risking civilians on porpuse.

Just like the idiot Corrie tried to do.

There is nothing "cool" about stending in order to protect a bomb shelter from bring destroyed, then whine when Israel protects its people by destroying that bomb shelter.

it is really concerning you see using civilians (children among them) as "shields" to protect the house, as "cool".

But then again, your reason and mine work differently.

Did you forget the rules on this board?

The rules of this board say no flame or offense.

I said that your reason and mine work differently. That's a fact, not an offense.

What you think is wrong, I don't, and the other way around.

You say pointing that out is an insult?

You havn't been insulted much, if you think that.

At any case, my intention was not to harm you, my appologies of that is how it sounded.

 

[Lipush]

Cool, the people volunteered to sit on this guys house to prevent the IDF (Israeli Destruction Force) from bombing his house. It angered a lot of people in the duh bomb'em crowd.

It is risking civilians on porpuse.

Just like the idiot Corrie tried to do.

There is nothing "cool" about stending in order to protect a bomb shelter from bring destroyed, then whine when Israel protects its people by destroying that bomb shelter.

it is really concerning you see using civilians (children among them) as "shields" to protect the house, as "cool".

But then again, your reason and mine work differently.

All that and Israel had no right to bomb that guy's house to begin with.

If the house was sheltering bombs and weapon and rockets targeted to harm Israeli civilians, then hell yes, Israel had every right to do that.

 

[MikeK]

The fact remains they did not attack us until we increasingly oppressed them

Oppressed WHO?!

I have provided you with credible documentation as to Al Qaeda's reason for attacking the U.S. on 9/11. Essentially, Al Qaeda resides in religious solidarity with the Palestinian people whom they believe to be seriously oppressed by Israel. And because of our economic, diplomatic and military support of Israel Al Qaeda regards the U.S. as an extension of the oppressor -- the friend of their enemy as it were.

What more proof do you need?

What more proof? So how come that countries who have never supported Israel, and even supported the "opressed" were also attacked by Al-Quaeda and others like them? how does THAT fact fits your reason?

I am not a Middle East scholar and my interest in the specific motivations for Al Qaeda's attacks on other nations is limited. I do know that in the example of Spain there is some innate anti-Islamic feeling dating back to that nation's occupation by the Moors. But I'm not aware of anything more specific, nor am I sufficiently interested to research it.

In the example of the terrorist bombings in Denmark, I do recall the issue of a week-long publication of particularly offensive cartoons with Muhammad as subject. While I personally do not regard offensive cartoons to be justification for terrorist bombings I am neither religious nor Islamic. And knowing how fanatical some Islamists can be I think it's a bad idea to contemptuously offend their religion.

Those are my guesses as to two of Al Qaeda's attacks on other nations. As mentioned, I'm not sufficiently interested to research their motivation. I'm concerned only with their actions against the U.S. I know what motivated those attacks and I do expect there will be more such actions against us because of our excessively aggressive actions, such as drone attacks which produce innocent civilian casualties. These actions are making more enemies for us and more friends for Al Qaeda.

 

[Billo_Really]

I can't believe you are still trying to argue a point, that the UN, Obama, or any country in Europe arn't even arguing for. 3 of Hamas top leaders boast about using civilians as human shields. Here is one of them.

WTF are you talking about? The official UN position on this is in the Goldstone Report and they didn't find any evidence this was occuring by Hamas. But they did find 7 incidents of the IDF using human shields.

So, what you are trying to say is that Israel is knowingly firing rockets on women and children for the hell of it.

Yes. Because they're firing from F16's, Apache gunships and drones. They can see what they are targeting. Many of their weapons are lazer guided.

Hamas does this as well but are more justified because they are the underdog, and there are territory disputes.

Hamas weapons can only be lobbed into the sky towards Israel and they have no way of controlling where they land. Which classify's them as indescriminant weapons.

Now, how many fuckin' times do I have to point out, that these rockets are war crimes, committed on the part of Hamas, before it sinks in to your fuckin' brain, that I condemned their use and not condoned it?

I'm getting really sick of re-stating the same fact over and over and over, because you people don't have the balls to be honest!

 

[Lipush]

it is... and that's true.

but again, the question is why anyone in the world would take offense to a nation defending itself from terrorist bombs....

it is a travesty when those terrorists put their weaponry over civilians just so those same terrorists can say "see how many innocents those bad self-defenders are killing".

Why would a country think starving Gazan children, has anything to do with their national security.

Nobody is starving Gaza children. If that was correct, then all the world would have known the names of the children dying of starvation.

For someone who pretends to do lot of research, you don't bring any proof of such who support that claim. Where are the photos of skinni starving children in Gaza?

 

[Lipush]

It is risking civilians on porpuse.

Just like the idiot Corrie tried to do.

Funny how all your contempt and disdain is directed at someone trying to stop a war crime and not on the person actually committing the war crime. I guess you think its okay to bulldoze down peoples homes on land you don't own.

There is nothing "cool" about stending in order to protect a bomb shelter from bring destroyed, then whine when Israel protects its people by destroying that bomb shelter.

Since when is a bomb shelter considered an offensive weapon?

How does a bomb shelter in Gaza, threaten Israeli citizens?

I guess if they dug it up, tied it to a trebuchet and launched it into Israel, that might work?

it is really concerning you see using civilians (children among them) as "shields" to protect the house, as "cool".

But then again, your reason and mine work differently.

You're something else! You post a video showing an arab woman demonstrating how much she cares about a little child, then just 2 posts later, you go back to this "dead baby strategy" non-sense.

The "War Crime" Corrie tried to stop is called "Hissuf". It means "digging" the ground to find expolisve which risked the lives of both soldiers and civilians.

She was a fool because one really needs to be in order to stand infront of an military vessel and trust she can "float" above it. Her actions were risking Israeli civilians.

Why should I not say the truth as it is.

As for what I have said above, sorry, what I meant to say, "a place where you hold bombs" meaning "warehouse", mistaked the words for "bomb shelters" (I don't believe they even HAVE bomb shelters in Gaza). Sorry again, for my miss-used words, English is not my mothertongue.

I believe that mothers in Gaza care for their children, at some point. I don't think any instinct is stronger than a maternal instinct. And not even that, as women, we're built to care for the young, it's in our DNA. But Hamas is something else.

In the last operation, IDF warned Gaza civilians that its going to attack in the southern area of Gaza, he called for the civilians to leave their homes because they wished to attack the rocket warehouses in there. Hamas PROHIBITED the civilians to leave.

I mean, WTF?!

 

[Lipush]

I have gave you proof, but you chose to either ignore, or overlook those proofs.

You posted 3 videos. Two of them, were of the same rockets fired from a Gaza street. There were no children shown in the videos. The 3rd video, was just a bunch of people talking about rockets.


I've never made excuses for the crimes they commit. It's just that Israel's crimes are a helleva lot more and much worse.

As for your "Hamas kiss-ass man" comment, now now now, you can't attack me personally..............uh...........mmm..............
ah, go ahead. You have my permission. It doesn't bother me. Just don't ever say I never did anything for you.

Let me ask you a specific question, and let us hope this time you won't ignore or try lying your way through it.

If the case of Muhammad-Abu-Mustafa would have happen in Israel, would the Palestinians have acted the same?

Who's Muhammad-Abu-Mustafa?

I can't believe you are still trying to argue a point, that the UN, Obama, or any country in Europe arn't even arguing for. 3 of Hamas top leaders boast about using civilians as human shields. Here is one of them.

Video: Hamas admits to using human shields | EuropeNews

So, what you are trying to say is that Israel is knowingly firing rockets on women and children for the hell of it. Hamas does this as well but are more justified because they are the underdog, and there are territory disputes.

you nailed it.

 

[Lipush]

this mantra of "HAMAS hides behind women and children" is getting very old, very monotonous, and very ridiculous.. the united nations fact finding mission on the gaza conflict found no evidence of that at all. if anything, they found evidence of the opposite. many people thought israel had it in their hip pocket with a zionist jew as the chairman of the mission but he only began to back away from the missions findings until the south african community slapped a חֵרֶם on him. ther is no reason to doubt the impartiality and obectivity of the other three members of the mission

the IDF had every opportunity to participate and co-operate with this mission but refused. HAMAS was little better. it is absurd to use or rely upon either one of their investigative conclusions.

personally, i think it is a bit callous and almost depraved to keep demonising either side beyond the facts and based upon the conclusions of biased and subjestive investigations. both sides are guilty of committing war crimes, be those crimes of negligence or deliberation. israel happens to commit these crimes more effectively than the palestinians, but one does not justify the other.

Hamas used and using human shields on regular basis.

When saying that, I don't mean that Hamas must take a group of women and children and hold them as shields PER SE.

Saying to the community not to leave their houses KNOWING there is a chance their houses must be bombed, just to prevent IDF from bombing rockets warehouses, IS USING HUMAN SHIELDS.

Sending children to pass rockets from one point to another, IS USING HUMAN SHIELDS.

Sendind kids to the border with a bomb tied wround their hips, telling them that killing soldiers will grant them heaven, IS USING HUMAN SHIELDS.

Sending rockets from a hospital, civilian house, IS USING HUMAN SHIELDS.

As for Israel, it was told that Israel used the method called נוהל שכן, lit. means "The neighbor method". it did it for a very limited time, using a neighbor as "protector" when sinding suspicious people. The military and civilian court highly condemned that method, saying it is against the IDF spirit which says, "Don't harm the uninvolved". this method stopped, thank God.

Now the tactic is much more humanitarian. It is called "knock-on-roof". The IDf "tappes" on the roofd of the houses, or using weapns that are not lethal, causing the civilians inside, if there are any, to leave, then destroyed the house. that is why sometimes you see little Gazan girls next to their ruin houses, in which THEY HAVE BEEN INTO only minute earlier, but the kids are without a scratch.

That is the true IDF spirit.

 

[P F Tinmore]

It is risking civilians on porpuse.

Just like the idiot Corrie tried to do.

Funny how all your contempt and disdain is directed at someone trying to stop a war crime and not on the person actually committing the war crime. I guess you think its okay to bulldoze down peoples homes on land you don't own.

Since when is a bomb shelter considered an offensive weapon?

How does a bomb shelter in Gaza, threaten Israeli citizens?

I guess if they dug it up, tied it to a trebuchet and launched it into Israel, that might work?

it is really concerning you see using civilians (children among them) as "shields" to protect the house, as "cool".

But then again, your reason and mine work differently.

You're something else! You post a video showing an arab woman demonstrating how much she cares about a little child, then just 2 posts later, you go back to this "dead baby strategy" non-sense.

The "War Crime" Corrie tried to stop is called "Hissuf". It means "digging" the ground to find expolisve which risked the lives of both soldiers and civilians.

She was a fool because one really needs to be in order to stand infront of an military vessel and trust she can "float" above it. Her actions were risking Israeli civilians.

Why should I not say the truth as it is.

As for what I have said above, sorry, what I meant to say, "a place where you hold bombs" meaning "warehouse", mistaked the words for "bomb shelters" (I don't believe they even HAVE bomb shelters in Gaza). Sorry again, for my miss-used words, English is not my mothertongue.

I believe that mothers in Gaza care for their children, at some point. I don't think any instinct is stronger than a maternal instinct. And not even that, as women, we're built to care for the young, it's in our DNA. But Hamas is something else.

In the last operation, IDF warned Gaza civilians that its going to attack in the southern area of Gaza, he called for the civilians to leave their homes because they wished to attack the rocket warehouses in there. Hamas PROHIBITED the civilians to leave.

I mean, WTF?!

The "War Crime" Corrie tried to stop is called "Hissuf". It means "digging" the ground to find expolisve which risked the lives of both soldiers and civilians.

Of course that is not true.

Israel wanted a buffer zone along Palestine's border with Egypt. To accomplish this it bulldozed every house within a few hundred meters of that border.

It had nothing to do with weapons or any of that crap.

 

[P F Tinmore]

this mantra of "HAMAS hides behind women and children" is getting very old, very monotonous, and very ridiculous.. the united nations fact finding mission on the gaza conflict found no evidence of that at all. if anything, they found evidence of the opposite. many people thought israel had it in their hip pocket with a zionist jew as the chairman of the mission but he only began to back away from the missions findings until the south african community slapped a חֵרֶם on him. ther is no reason to doubt the impartiality and obectivity of the other three members of the mission

the IDF had every opportunity to participate and co-operate with this mission but refused. HAMAS was little better. it is absurd to use or rely upon either one of their investigative conclusions.

personally, i think it is a bit callous and almost depraved to keep demonising either side beyond the facts and based upon the conclusions of biased and subjestive investigations. both sides are guilty of committing war crimes, be those crimes of negligence or deliberation. israel happens to commit these crimes more effectively than the palestinians, but one does not justify the other.

Hamas used and using human shields on regular basis.

When saying that, I don't mean that Hamas must take a group of women and children and hold them as shields PER SE.

Saying to the community not to leave their houses KNOWING there is a chance their houses must be bombed, just to prevent IDF from bombing rockets warehouses, IS USING HUMAN SHIELDS.

Sending children to pass rockets from one point to another, IS USING HUMAN SHIELDS.

Sendind kids to the border with a bomb tied wround their hips, telling them that killing soldiers will grant them heaven, IS USING HUMAN SHIELDS.

Sending rockets from a hospital, civilian house, IS USING HUMAN SHIELDS.

As for Israel, it was told that Israel used the method called נוהל שכן, lit. means "The neighbor method". it did it for a very limited time, using a neighbor as "protector" when sinding suspicious people. The military and civilian court highly condemned that method, saying it is against the IDF spirit which says, "Don't harm the uninvolved". this method stopped, thank God.

Now the tactic is much more humanitarian. It is called "knock-on-roof". The IDf "tappes" on the roofd of the houses, or using weapns that are not lethal, causing the civilians inside, if there are any, to leave, then destroyed the house. that is why sometimes you see little Gazan girls next to their ruin houses, in which THEY HAVE BEEN INTO only minute earlier, but the kids are without a scratch.

That is the true IDF spirit.

A bunch of crapola. The Goldstone report found no evidence to support that allegation.

And besides, destroying civilian infrastructure is a war crime.

 

[Lipush]

this mantra of "HAMAS hides behind women and children" is getting very old, very monotonous, and very ridiculous.. the united nations fact finding mission on the gaza conflict found no evidence of that at all. if anything, they found evidence of the opposite. many people thought israel had it in their hip pocket with a zionist jew as the chairman of the mission but he only began to back away from the missions findings until the south african community slapped a חֵרֶם on him. ther is no reason to doubt the impartiality and obectivity of the other three members of the mission

the IDF had every opportunity to participate and co-operate with this mission but refused. HAMAS was little better. it is absurd to use or rely upon either one of their investigative conclusions.

personally, i think it is a bit callous and almost depraved to keep demonising either side beyond the facts and based upon the conclusions of biased and subjestive investigations. both sides are guilty of committing war crimes, be those crimes of negligence or deliberation. israel happens to commit these crimes more effectively than the palestinians, but one does not justify the other.

Hamas used and using human shields on regular basis.

When saying that, I don't mean that Hamas must take a group of women and children and hold them as shields PER SE.

Saying to the community not to leave their houses KNOWING there is a chance their houses must be bombed, just to prevent IDF from bombing rockets warehouses, IS USING HUMAN SHIELDS.

Sending children to pass rockets from one point to another, IS USING HUMAN SHIELDS.

Sendind kids to the border with a bomb tied wround their hips, telling them that killing soldiers will grant them heaven, IS USING HUMAN SHIELDS.

Sending rockets from a hospital, civilian house, IS USING HUMAN SHIELDS.

As for Israel, it was told that Israel used the method called נוהל שכן, lit. means "The neighbor method". it did it for a very limited time, using a neighbor as "protector" when sinding suspicious people. The military and civilian court highly condemned that method, saying it is against the IDF spirit which says, "Don't harm the uninvolved". this method stopped, thank God.

Now the tactic is much more humanitarian. It is called "knock-on-roof". The IDf "tappes" on the roofd of the houses, or using weapns that are not lethal, causing the civilians inside, if there are any, to leave, then destroyed the house. that is why sometimes you see little Gazan girls next to their ruin houses, in which THEY HAVE BEEN INTO only minute earlier, but the kids are without a scratch.

That is the true IDF spirit.

A bunch of crapola. The Goldstone report found no evidence to support that allegation.

And besides, destroying civilian infrastructure is a war crime.

The "knowck-on-roof" method had started in this operation, not in the times of the trash-report of goldstone.

"And besides, destroying civilian infrastructure is a war crime"

When there are risks of life, it's ok to ruin property.

and it is not a war crime when the people who'[s property have been ruined, are Jews, right?

 

[Lipush]

Eh! apperently I was not well informed! lookie what I found

Roof knocking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[P F Tinmore]

Hamas used and using human shields on regular basis.

When saying that, I don't mean that Hamas must take a group of women and children and hold them as shields PER SE.

Saying to the community not to leave their houses KNOWING there is a chance their houses must be bombed, just to prevent IDF from bombing rockets warehouses, IS USING HUMAN SHIELDS.

Sending children to pass rockets from one point to another, IS USING HUMAN SHIELDS.

Sendind kids to the border with a bomb tied wround their hips, telling them that killing soldiers will grant them heaven, IS USING HUMAN SHIELDS.

Sending rockets from a hospital, civilian house, IS USING HUMAN SHIELDS.

As for Israel, it was told that Israel used the method called נוהל שכן, lit. means "The neighbor method". it did it for a very limited time, using a neighbor as "protector" when sinding suspicious people. The military and civilian court highly condemned that method, saying it is against the IDF spirit which says, "Don't harm the uninvolved". this method stopped, thank God.

Now the tactic is much more humanitarian. It is called "knock-on-roof". The IDf "tappes" on the roofd of the houses, or using weapns that are not lethal, causing the civilians inside, if there are any, to leave, then destroyed the house. that is why sometimes you see little Gazan girls next to their ruin houses, in which THEY HAVE BEEN INTO only minute earlier, but the kids are without a scratch.

That is the true IDF spirit.

A bunch of crapola. The Goldstone report found no evidence to support that allegation.

And besides, destroying civilian infrastructure is a war crime.

The "knowck-on-roof" method had started in this operation, not in the times of the trash-report of goldstone.

"And besides, destroying civilian infrastructure is a war crime"

When there are risks of life, it's ok to ruin property.

and it is not a war crime when the people who'[s property have been ruined, are Jews, right?

During Cast Lead Israel destroyed thousands of homes and a lot of other civilian infrastructure with the excuse that they housed militants.

Yet only a few hundred militants were killed.

Why don't these numbers add up?

 

[Lipush]

Hamas also have a saying of that, doncha think? you know how many rockets fall inside the strip?

Only in the last few month a rocket hitting and falling inside Gaza, killed a 2 year old Palestinian baby.

We know that since the IDF didn't attack at all at the time.

Yet it didn't stop them from blaming Israel..

 

[Jroc]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwtRd3ZCNBs]Hamas Proudly Admits To Using Human Shields - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Billo_Really]

Hamas Proudly Admits To Using Human Shields - YouTube

If this is the only thing you got to prove that ridiculous claim, then Goldstone was right.

There is no evidence of Hamas using children as human shields.

The only thing this video proves, is "your" perception of what you want it to prove.

And it is unclear whether or not that is his intent.

 

[MHunterB]

Hamas Proudly Admits To Using Human Shields - YouTube

If this is the only thing you got to prove that ridiculous claim, then Goldstone was right.

There is no evidence of Hamas using children as human shields.

The only thing this video proves, is "your" perception of what you want it to prove.

And it is unclear whether or not that is his intent.

Of course there's no evidence to support 'your' perception as given above. Except of course for any weight anther person would assing to an OPINION coming from you.

 

[Billo_Really]

Hamas also have a saying of that, doncha think? you know how many rockets fall inside the strip?

Only in the last few month a rocket hitting and falling inside Gaza, killed a 2 year old Palestinian baby.

We know that since the IDF didn't attack at all at the time.

Yet it didn't stop them from blaming Israel..

I'm trying to find an article I read recently that talked about a recent interview right after the "pillar of cloud" ceasefire. The interview was done by CNN and, as usual, they wanted to show no bias to either side, by having a representive from Israel and one from Gaza, both speak about the dangerous conditions they live under, when the rockets and bombs start falling into their neighborhoods. Without knowing it, this video shows better than any words on the subject, who lives with the greater danger.

The video shows all this time and energy talking about the rocket attacks, is just a diversion designed to keep people from talking about the real truth in Gaza.

As this interview takes place, the CNN host goes back and forth to each guest, asking them basically the same questions. The Israeli guest is speaking from somewhere down where you live, the Palestinian guest, is speaking from Gaza. When the images are of the Israeli guest talking about who the rocket attacks have injured and their affect on the local population (mostly psychological), not much is going on in the background. But when they video shifts to the guest in Gaza, you keep hearing these loud bangs in the background. They occured so frequently, that the CNN host finally had to ask, "What is that noise we keep hearing?" The Gazan guest replied, "Those are air strikes!" Then, all of a sudden, one hits so close, you can see the building shake in the background. The next thing you see and hear, is the start of a bang, then the video goes out!

And you think the discussion should be soley on the rocket attacks?

Since this is the "clean debate zone", I'll stop there. Because what I want to say next, is not very kind.