IDF finally breaks silence and speaks out about Israeli atrocities in the OPT

[Billo_Really]

Do you know any IDF soldier personally? Can you pretend to know how the system works?

I don't know any personally, but I can read what some of them say about the system.

Here's one commenting on "housing demolitions"...

Testimony 9 – Rules of Engagement & House Demolitions

“From the onset….the brigade commander and other officers made it very clear to us that any movement must entail gunfire” with or without being shot at. Alerts were given about a suicide bomber or sniper in the area, but “none of (these) materialized as far as our company was concerned.”

“Houses were demolished everywhere.” They were fired at “with tremendous power. We didn’t see a single house that remained intact….The entire infrastructure, tracks, fields, roads (were) in total ruin.” D-9 bulldozers demolished everything “in our designated area. It looked awful, like in those World War II films where nothing remained. A totally destroyed city.”

They go in with this kind of attitude, yet you say Rachael Corrie was the threat!

You are so fuckin' nuts!

Here's another one to throw in your face...

Testimony 24 – Briefings & House Demolitions

Initial briefings by commanders never mentioned “the lives of civilians (or) showing consideration to civilians.” Here it wasn’t mentioned. “Just the brutality, go in there brutally….In case of any doubt, take down houses. You don’t need confirmation for anything….”

D-9 operators “cannot show consideration. If he’s ordered to demolish a house, he” does it….”houses and agricultural areas as well, orchards and hothouses.” At the end of the operation, the commander said “We demolished 900 houses….a really huge number. We demolished a lot.”

This is what you're defending, which I find disgusting!

Go in there "brutally", just like the ****** who killed Rachael.

 

[Billo_Really]

Besides the point that Corrie was killed on border, she died in 2003. you cannot compare that year to 2012.

Even YOU should know the situation was different.

You're not moving the goal posts on me, no fuckin' way!

She was murdered in the Gaza strip in the Palestinian town of Rafah, where you said there was no IDF presence.

 

[Lipush]

Do you know any IDF soldier personally? Can you pretend to know how the system works?

I don't know any personally, but I can read what some of them say about the system.

Here's one commenting on "housing demolitions"...

Testimony 9 – Rules of Engagement & House Demolitions

“From the onset….the brigade commander and other officers made it very clear to us that any movement must entail gunfire” with or without being shot at. Alerts were given about a suicide bomber or sniper in the area, but “none of (these) materialized as far as our company was concerned.”

“Houses were demolished everywhere.” They were fired at “with tremendous power. We didn’t see a single house that remained intact….The entire infrastructure, tracks, fields, roads (were) in total ruin.” D-9 bulldozers demolished everything “in our designated area. It looked awful, like in those World War II films where nothing remained. A totally destroyed city.”

They go in with this kind of attitude, yet you say Rachael Corrie was the threat!

You are so fuckin' nuts!

Here's another one to throw in your face...

Testimony 24 – Briefings & House Demolitions

Initial briefings by commanders never mentioned “the lives of civilians (or) showing consideration to civilians.” Here it wasn’t mentioned. “Just the brutality, go in there brutally….In case of any doubt, take down houses. You don’t need confirmation for anything….”

D-9 operators “cannot show consideration. If he’s ordered to demolish a house, he” does it….”houses and agricultural areas as well, orchards and hothouses.” At the end of the operation, the commander said “We demolished 900 houses….a really huge number. We demolished a lot.”

This is what you're defending, which I find disgusting!

Go in there "brutally", just like the ****** who killed Rachael.

Once you have admitted you don't know any soldiers personally, it doesn't matter if you read scrolls over scrolls, you don't know the people you're talking about.

So explain to me why I should take your opinion seriously, when I have met many IDF soldiers, got to know the system, been PART of the system and getting to know it like the back of my hand?

 

[Billo_Really]

The people of Israel will forever have Moisers inside the nation. Fact that cannot be change.

Those will prefet the lives of the Palestinians over Israelis.

Sad, but happens.

Do Rabbi's for Human Rights prefer Palestinian's over Israeli's?

Here's JVP's mission statement:

Jewish Voice for Peace members are inspired by Jewish tradition to work together for peace, social justice, equality, human rights, respect for international law, and a U.S. foreign policy based on these ideals.

JVP opposes anti-Jewish, anti-Muslim, and anti-Arab bigotry and oppression. JVP seeks an end to the Israeli occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem; security and self-determination for Israelis and Palestinians; a just solution for Palestinian refugees based on principles established in international law; an end to violence against civilians; and peace and justice for all peoples of the Middle East.

That doesn't look like they prefer Palestinian's over Israeli's. That looks like they want everyone to be treated the same way.

 

[Billo_Really]

Once you have admitted you don't know any soldiers personally, it doesn't matter if you read scrolls over scrolls, you don't know the people you're talking about.

So explain to me why I should take your opinion seriously, when I have met many IDF soldiers, got to know the system, been PART of the system and getting to know it like the back of my hand?

Because it's completely irrelevant to what we're discussing.

I want you to comment specifically on what these two soldiers said.

Are you going to do that?

 

[Billo_Really]

I will defend any action the IDF does to protect the Israeli civilians from the Palestinian war crimes.

I was part of the IDF system, the IDF protects me. I will forever support the Israeli Army, against fact-twisters and Anti-Israelis.

Consider yourself under both of the catagories.

Fact-twister? You said the IDF was not in Gaza. I just proved they were. So who's the one twisting the facts?

 

[Lipush]

Once you have admitted you don't know any soldiers personally, it doesn't matter if you read scrolls over scrolls, you don't know the people you're talking about.

So explain to me why I should take your opinion seriously, when I have met many IDF soldiers, got to know the system, been PART of the system and getting to know it like the back of my hand?

Because it's completely irrelevant to what we're discussing.

I want you to comment specifically on what these two soldiers said.

Are you going to do that?

The IDF does not take down houses out of the blue. Taking down houses happens normally under two situations. one, if the houses were illegal, just like what happened with Al-Araqib, right here in the south.

Second, as a punishment against terrorists, especially near the area of Jerusalem or the WB.

It's never out if the blue.

If a soldier has a problem with that, he can adress the Kaba'an and tell him he cannot pariticipate in such an act. That what personally I would have done, or tried to bail out of health problems; That's really what you can doo.

As a soldier, however, you're not allowed to go against the system or to do what those soldiers did, It's against the military and the state.

Many soldiers felt that same thing ("horrible, inhuman") when seeing houses and neighborhoods being destroyed in Gush Kattif, family ruined. They couldn't really say anything or do anything. they obeyed the decision. If the rightists can, why not leftists?

 

[Lipush]

I will defend any action the IDF does to protect the Israeli civilians from the Palestinian war crimes.

I was part of the IDF system, the IDF protects me. I will forever support the Israeli Army, against fact-twisters and Anti-Israelis.

Consider yourself under both of the catagories.

Fact-twister? You said the IDF was not in Gaza. I just proved they were. So who's the one twisting the facts?

I was saying that the IDF was not in Gaza NOW. I was saying that Corrie was killed near the BORDER.

THAT is what I was saying.

 

[Billo_Really]

The IDF does not take down houses out of the blue. Taking down houses happens normally under two situations. one, if the houses were illegal, just like what happened with Al-Araqib, right here in the south.

We're talking about Gaza. Israel has no legal authority in Gaza. It's not your decision to decide if a house is illegal or not. Hell, you're not even supposed to be there for any reason, let alone demolishing someone's house.

And according to these two IDF soldiers, you have more than two situations for bringing down a house.

Testimony 29 – House Demolitions & Bombardment

In controlled areas, orders were “to raze as much as possible….Such razing is a euphemism for intentional, systematic destruction, enabling total visibility….so no one could hide anything from us” and operational objectives could be accomplished – destroying suspected booby-trapped houses and tunnels. Also leaving behind minimal infrastructure after the operation was concluded.

The destruction in Gaza “was on a totally different scale (than anything) I had previously known….the ground was….constantly shaking. I mean, there were blasts all the time. Explosions were heard all day long, the night was filled with flashes, an intensity we had never experienced before. Several D-9 bulldozers were operating around the clock, constantly busy….What is a suspect spot? It means you decided it was suspect and could take out all your rage at it.”

Testimony 30 – House Demolitions & Bombardment

Most “mosques were demolished. (Our) brigade commander (said) we should not hesitate to target mosques. Nothing is immune, nothing and no area. He explicitly mentioned mosques….If you see sand bags, you shoot without the shadow of a doubt….You run into a curve in the road and know there’s an angle from which you cannot monitor a certain area, first you shoot, see if anything happens, then you proceed….If you don’t know what’s in a building, you fire at it. Such were the general instructions….”

Second, as a punishment against terrorists, especially near the area of Jerusalem or the WB.

This is a war crime. You cannot punish a population simply because you wanted to teach somebody a lesson.

Here's one more for the road, since this is what you're defending...

Testimony 44 – Vandalism

Houses were cleared with live fire and people inside taken away. There was no control. Soldiers did what they wanted. At times, they “went crazy.” They did “unnecessary damage to property, smashing stuff, looting. Commanders didn’t care.

 

[Billo_Really]

I was saying that the IDF was not in Gaza NOW. I was saying that Corrie was killed near the BORDER.

THAT is what I was saying.

Corrie was murdered in Rafah, a Palestinian town, where you had no fuckin' business being.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Once you have admitted you don't know any soldiers personally, it doesn't matter if you read scrolls over scrolls, you don't know the people you're talking about.

So explain to me why I should take your opinion seriously, when I have met many IDF soldiers, got to know the system, been PART of the system and getting to know it like the back of my hand?

Because it's completely irrelevant to what we're discussing.

I want you to comment specifically on what these two soldiers said.

Are you going to do that?

The IDF does not take down houses out of the blue. Taking down houses happens normally under two situations. one, if the houses were illegal, just like what happened with Al-Araqib, right here in the south.

Second, as a punishment against terrorists, especially near the area of Jerusalem or the WB.

It's never out if the blue.

If a soldier has a problem with that, he can adress the Kaba'an and tell him he cannot pariticipate in such an act. That what personally I would have done, or tried to bail out of health problems; That's really what you can doo.

As a soldier, however, you're not allowed to go against the system or to do what those soldiers did, It's against the military and the state.

Many soldiers felt that same thing ("horrible, inhuman") when seeing houses and neighborhoods being destroyed in Gush Kattif, family ruined. They couldn't really say anything or do anything. they obeyed the decision. If the rightists can, why not leftists?

Destroying the houses in Gaza had nothing to do with being illegal or terrorism.

 

[SAYIT]

I will defend any action the IDF does to protect the Israeli civilians from the Palestinian war crimes.

I was part of the IDF system, the IDF protects me. I will forever support the Israeli Army, against fact-twisters and Anti-Israelis.

Consider yourself under both of the catagories.

Fact-twister? You said the IDF was not in Gaza. I just proved they were. So who's the one twisting the facts?

Lipush said the IDF is not in Gaza.
As she said, you simply lie and twist the facts.

 

[SAYIT]

Because it's completely irrelevant to what we're discussing.

I want you to comment specifically on what these two soldiers said.

Are you going to do that?

The IDF does not take down houses out of the blue. Taking down houses happens normally under two situations. one, if the houses were illegal, just like what happened with Al-Araqib, right here in the south.

Second, as a punishment against terrorists, especially near the area of Jerusalem or the WB.

It's never out if the blue.

If a soldier has a problem with that, he can adress the Kaba'an and tell him he cannot pariticipate in such an act. That what personally I would have done, or tried to bail out of health problems; That's really what you can doo.

As a soldier, however, you're not allowed to go against the system or to do what those soldiers did, It's against the military and the state.

Many soldiers felt that same thing ("horrible, inhuman") when seeing houses and neighborhoods being destroyed in Gush Kattif, family ruined. They couldn't really say anything or do anything. they obeyed the decision. If the rightists can, why not leftists?

Destroying the houses in Gaza had nothing to do with being illegal or terrorism.

Sure it did.

 

[Sundowner47]

SPRAYIT: Sure it did.

yet another astounding refutation from Sprayit...how does she do it??? How does she divide her time between such polemical accuracy and hours of goat-balls????

 

[Billo_Really]

Sure it did.

You're right!

Israeli terrorism in Gaza is definately illegal.

Gazans are locked down in isolation. They live in a virtual war zone. Incursions, bombings, and border killings happen regularly.Bogus threats are claimed. Civilians are killed or injured in cold blood. Farmers are shot in their fields. Children straying too close to Israel’s border are murdered for sport. Israeli soldiers literally use them for target practice. It’s no joke. Little boys and girls die or get injured.Others end up disabled. Many are grievously traumatized. Western media reports ignore what they and adults endured for decades. Washington aids and abets the worst of Israel’s war machine.

Shooting children for target practice, you people don't deserve a country.

 

[Billo_Really]

Lipush said the IDF is not in Gaza.
As she said, you simply lie and twist the facts.

Since I proved she lied, you wouldn't know a fact, if it slapped you on the ass and called you "mama".

 

[SAYIT]

TinHorn - "Destroying the houses in Gaza had nothing to do with being illegal or terrorism."

SPRAYIT: Sure it did.

yet another astounding refutation from Sprayit...how does she do it??? How does she divide her time between such polemical accuracy and hours of goat-balls????

It was as illuminating as the post to which I responded (and you conveniently truncated) and I will remind you again, it is you who was recognized for your generous acts of "animal husbandry" with those goats (sundowner "sucks off goats") by this board, Princess, not me.

 

[SAYIT]

Lipush said the IDF is not in Gaza.
As she said, you simply lie and twist the facts.

Since I proved she lied, you wouldn't know a fact, if it slapped you on the ass and called you "mama".

You proved squat, Princess.

 

[Billo_Really]

You proved squat, Princess.

I proved there was IDF in Gaza when she said there wasn't.

 

[SAYIT]

Sure it did.

You're right!

Israeli terrorism in Gaza is definately illegal.

Gazans are locked down in isolation. They live in a virtual war zone. Incursions, bombings, and border killings happen regularly.Bogus threats are claimed. Civilians are killed or injured in cold blood. Farmers are shot in their fields. Children straying too close to Israel’s border are murdered for sport. Israeli soldiers literally use them for target practice. It’s no joke. Little boys and girls die or get injured.Others end up disabled. Many are grievously traumatized. Western media reports ignore what they and adults endured for decades. Washington aids and abets the worst of Israel’s war machine.

Shooting children for target practice, you people don't deserve a country.

Ah, but no matter what fools like you say or think the Israelis do indeed have a country and the "Palestinians" have nothing:
Israel - 23,000 days of STATEHOOD and still winning!
"Palestine" - 0 days of statehood and still WHINING!