usmbguest5318
Gold Member
Why Trump last week reiterated that he went to an Ivy League school and did well is beyond comprehension. Who the hell that is a public figure who also is indeed smart and mastered the content taught at whatever school(s) they attended bothers, unbidden and for any reason other than to show a measure of understanding about something besides the actual content taught in that school, to attest to as much is anyone's guess.
Whether one was a good student and did a fine job of learning what was taught will be evident in myriad ways to which one need not attest and that others will attest to on one's behalf. That happens all the time. People have no reluctance about saying things like "so and so is really good at...," "he's really smart," "she's a brilliant mathematician," "she did an excellent job at ...," and so on. Even Trump's biggest detractors and opponents willingly accord that he's very good at some things. If one earns a given accolade, one will receive it, in abundance and from people who matter and people who don't.
As goes Trump's intellectual acuity, it seems Trump is his own biggest source of acknowledgement.
The October remarks were part of Trump's response to Jeff Flake's castigation of his character, most particularly his wanton penchant for paltering.
Points of fact:
Whether one was a good student and did a fine job of learning what was taught will be evident in myriad ways to which one need not attest and that others will attest to on one's behalf. That happens all the time. People have no reluctance about saying things like "so and so is really good at...," "he's really smart," "she's a brilliant mathematician," "she did an excellent job at ...," and so on. Even Trump's biggest detractors and opponents willingly accord that he's very good at some things. If one earns a given accolade, one will receive it, in abundance and from people who matter and people who don't.
As goes Trump's intellectual acuity, it seems Trump is his own biggest source of acknowledgement.
2004 -- "I went to the Wharton School of Finance, I got very good marks." -- Donald Trump
August 2016 -- "I went to an Ivy League school. I’m very highly educated. I know words, I have the best words." -- Donald Trump
October 2017 -- "I went to an Ivy League college. I was a nice student. I did very well. I’m a very intelligent person." -- Donald Trump
August 2016 -- "I went to an Ivy League school. I’m very highly educated. I know words, I have the best words." -- Donald Trump
October 2017 -- "I went to an Ivy League college. I was a nice student. I did very well. I’m a very intelligent person." -- Donald Trump
The October remarks were part of Trump's response to Jeff Flake's castigation of his character, most particularly his wanton penchant for paltering.
Points of fact:
- Trump did graduate from U. Penn and the program from which he graduated was (is) offered by the Wharton School.
Qualitative Assessment:
If I wanted to make something of it, I could raise that he transferred into Wharton (from Fordham, a fine school, to be sure, but hardly a first, second or third choice institution among high-performing WASPy students of Trump's social set "back in the day") rather than being admitted as a freshmen, explaining, as it was explained to me by my folks, why folks having Trump's background didn't (in Trump's day and before) get admitted to Ivy League (or Seven Sister and/or top ten/tier liberal arts) schools as freshmen. And I could detail the vagaries of a Wharton econ degree (again in Trump's day) vs. a Wharton business, especially the graduate school, degree. And I could discuss the reduced rigor of the economics element at Wharton undergrad (all Wharton undergrad degrees are classed as economics degrees and provide, as does any business degree, only an overview of economics as it relates to applying the basics of the discipline to business strategy) in comparison to U. Penn's Arts and Sciences economics program as the reason Trump doesn't truly understand economics.
But I won't because only the rare individual who hails from that part of society will understand, and I have no desire to "make the case" to folks who will try arguing against any of those things, for at the end of the day, for this point, and in this part of the discussion, positively speaking (instead of normatively speaking), which is what a point of fact is all about, those things don't matter. Trump made about having an Ivy League degree. He graduated from U. Penn; that is a fact, and on that point of fact, I'm not going to say otherwise no matter the qualitative elements underlying that fact. - Insofar as college is considered "higher education," having a college degree allows one to claim being highly educated, particularly as most people by far don't have one.
Qualitative Assessment:
Though as a point of fact, I count the statement as true, in the realms in which Trump dwells, damn near everyone has at least a college degree. Many, perhaps most, have one or more graduate degrees. To wit, in the House, over 65% of the members have a graduate degree. Everyone in the SES has a graduate degree as do all the government's experts on "whatever." In Trump's cabinet, the great majority (14 of 20; 70%) have graduate degrees. Even among "high flying" CEOs one observes that ~70% of them have a graduate degree.
But what is the importance of a graduate degree in the context of this discussion? It provides irrefutable evidence that one is both smarter than average -- the minimum passing grade in grad school is a B, and at the doctoral level, there are, in grade terms, only two grades, A or F, meaning one did or did not do what was needed, which is contribute to the body of humanity's knowledge, to earn the degree. A graduate degree also indicates clearly that one knows a hell of a lot about a given discipline and much, minimally enough to readily know when something one hears/sees seems not to quite "add up," about everything that directly and indirectly relates to that discipline.
So, in comparison to the average American, yes, Trump is highly educated, yes, he is. In comparison to others at the highest levels of public service and business, he is not. And if one is educationally an average American, does one really want a POTUS who is not smarter and better educated than oneself? I submit that one needs to be, regardless of the education one has, not as smart as the average American to answer "yes" to that question. After all, who that is average (or below it) needs a leader who is not smarter and more learned than themselves? - Earning "very good marks," though it's clearly an unspecific, subjective term, it's something that universally results in one's academic performance, at least at the baccalaureate level, receiving some sort of recognition by the school one attends.
Qualitative Analysis:
There is no evidence to support Trump's assertion that he earned "very good marks." Trump did not appear on the Dean's list. (Wharton/U. Penn Dean's List requirements)
Trump did not receive academic honors upon graduating.
That he got "very good marks" is thus flatly false. He passed his courses and graduated. That's it. It's something, but it is not earning "very good marks."
Does anyone give a wet rat's ass whether Trump went to an Ivy League school? Or whether he graduated with honors? No! People might have a passing curiosity about those things, but care, they just don't. I don't either.
The only reason anyone is even talking about it is because Trump made a point of noting it, and doing so as a means of rebutting recriminations made about him, and upon looking into the details of the matter, it's found that he graduated with no materially better marks than did the great majority of his classmates.
Quite simply, and most importantly for why Trump even mentioned it, his claims don't refute the assertions made about his not being particularly smart. In the '60s and before, one's having graduated from an Ivy League school was more an indication of one one's good character, values and social status than it was of one's intellect.
Why? Because posh WASPs, then as now, knew damn well that very bright people attended and graduated from all sorts of schools, and Ivy League schools were hardly the only places at which one could receive a first rate education and, in turn, perform highly or be a mediocre student. The reasons it used to said that "the hardest thing about Harvard is getting in" had everything to do with who one was and things one did before matriculating at Harvard. Once admitted, however, one had to "work hard," that is be a total "f*ck-up," not to graduate. Knowing that is too part of why most folks who went to an Ivy don't themselves mention it in the same contextual manner that Trump did. Nevermind that nobody with any sense wants, by dint of their own braggadocio, to entreat others to root around in the "ancient history" of their late teens and early young adulthood, academic or otherwise.
The only reason anyone is even talking about it is because Trump made a point of noting it, and doing so as a means of rebutting recriminations made about him, and upon looking into the details of the matter, it's found that he graduated with no materially better marks than did the great majority of his classmates.
Quite simply, and most importantly for why Trump even mentioned it, his claims don't refute the assertions made about his not being particularly smart. In the '60s and before, one's having graduated from an Ivy League school was more an indication of one one's good character, values and social status than it was of one's intellect.
Why? Because posh WASPs, then as now, knew damn well that very bright people attended and graduated from all sorts of schools, and Ivy League schools were hardly the only places at which one could receive a first rate education and, in turn, perform highly or be a mediocre student. The reasons it used to said that "the hardest thing about Harvard is getting in" had everything to do with who one was and things one did before matriculating at Harvard. Once admitted, however, one had to "work hard," that is be a total "f*ck-up," not to graduate. Knowing that is too part of why most folks who went to an Ivy don't themselves mention it in the same contextual manner that Trump did. Nevermind that nobody with any sense wants, by dint of their own braggadocio, to entreat others to root around in the "ancient history" of their late teens and early young adulthood, academic or otherwise.
