I want a logical argument from the left for why this man's point of view is wrong.

[Stormy Daniels]

Why do we let millions of poor and uneducated people in when we're not making a humanitarian difference?

We don't.

We do. At the time the video was made we were letting in about a million a year. He talks about it in the first couple minutes.

What he says is that the "poor and uneducated" aren't able to access immigration into the US--instead its those with means and qualifications who are among the million yearly immigrants.

 

[Confounding]

That is simply false. Should I chalk this up to rhetoric or laziness? One can easily argue that we need more young workers to help fund our aging demographics. That is not only logical and ethical, one could argue it is also moral.

One can alsoake the (somewhat) esoteric argument that immigrabts, by showing more entrepreneurialism and mobity than average Americans, are excellent for the economy in general and for helping to solve the worsening problems of wealth inequity and class inertia.

The point has already been made several times that our economy is running out of use for uneducated labor as technology improves. The situation is not going to get better as far as that goes, only worse. We don't need millions of poor laborers joining our ranks every year.

 

[Confounding]

Why do we let millions of poor and uneducated people in when we're not making a humanitarian difference?

We don't.

We do. At the time the video was made we were letting in about a million a year. He talks about it in the first couple minutes.

What he says is that the "poor and uneducated" aren't able to access immigration into the US--instead its those with means and qualifications who are among the million yearly immigrants.

He says the desperately poor can't get here. Mexicans that cross the border still tend to be poor and uneducated, perhaps not as much as somebody from the plains of Africa. Our economy doesn't need these people. It's a detriment to us.

 

[Some Guy]

I've never heard anyone, ever, say that the immigration issue is about "about tackling world poverty", which is the very foundation of his point.

Tossing straw man arguments into a complicated, contentious issue only drags us further away from honestly and effectively addressing it.

Sure, not in those terms. But if it's not about tackling immigrant poverty (or improving immigrant quality of life rather) then what is it about? No one is coming to America because it provides less opportunity or is just a lateral move for them. They're doing it to improve their lives in some way, usually though employment opportunity, quality of living conditions or less crime/danger.

On the flipside, i don't see why any country owes any immigrant the chance to live/work in that country regardless of what that immigrant is faced with elsewhere. If a country is sovereign then they deserve to make a judgment on anyone who's going to be accepted in as part of that country. The idea that we owe the world and it's people anything is a flawed one.

Agreed. We just don't seem to be able with deal with pretty any much any issue right now, that's the freakin' problem. There is a point of equilibrium on most issues, but once political ideology takes over, it's nothing more than a food fight.

Yes, we absolutely must protect our borders, and any Democrat who pretends there's not a significant political element to this latest outrage is either lying or delusional. They're gonna milk this for all it's worth, and don't be surprised when their outrage drops a bit after the election.

At the same time, conservatives have to understand that they're inviting this stuff with their wall, among other things. They could bend a bit and come up with some workable solutions, but instead, they're just punching back. I admit I don't understand partisan politics, but I don't see the point of all this.
.

Just takes some digging on why someone thinks what they do. Most people don't want to put the intellectual capital into thinking through the different angles of a particular thing. Most people who want open borders and tons of immigrants want it for little more than "it would be nice of us" ignoring what "nice" and "us" really mean in that context. People who don't want immigrants might be making assumptions about what you mean by "immigrant", and thus could be that they don't like brown people at the core of it.

I don't agree with your "inviting this stuff with the wall" particularly. Would a wall be significantly more expensive than a fence of some sort, maybe. But, i don't see a problem with some sort of barrier. It's not unlike putting up a fence around your yard as some level of privacy and security. It wouldn't solve all the problems but it would help to some degree. Of course, that's under the assumption that the government/country stays largely as it is today. An overhaul of welfare, education and the end of the drug way would likely lead to not needing a barrier at all.

 

[BULLDOG]

It's a 6 minute long video. Watch the whole thing.

I've never heard the argument that letting people into the US will reduce world poverty.

But hey.

The point is the left convinces us to let in millions of people every year, mistakenly believing they are making some kind of humanitarian difference. Instead all they're really doing is making it harder for Americans, and at a time when things are already hard for Americans. It's truly heartbreaking that so many struggle, but we can't save them; it's impossible. We can't even save most or even a lot of them. There are too many people and our little bubble of prosperity is not big enough for everybody. So I guess your choices are to enjoy your way of life and accept that you are privileged and extremely lucky, or feel guilty for what you have and attempt to mitigate that guild by burdening America for no logical reason.

No. That is not the point of the OP. Why are you trying to change the subject and the goal posts? The point in the OP is that we are somehow trying to reduce world poverty by allowing refugees. That has been shown to be bullshit.

 

[sartre play]

I watched, its the polite thing to do. what I don't get is what political party any where is trying to fix world poverty? our government along with others puts out some money & are allowing an amount of people in desperate situations to enter there country's. private persons & groups donate time & money. what this man is saying is its a hopeless situation. that's a sad commentary. but don't see what it has to do with our not well thought out policy's of making all these people Bad people, are all poor people here or any where else all bad people? does doing that allow us to hate them? have no solution for the problem, just unable to hate all people who were born in some kind of poverty.

 

[Confounding]

False premise from the first two minutes.

Elaborate?

I mean it's a false premise. The notion that we don't accept enough of a percentage from the huge pool of economically challenged foreigners is a false premise and he starts out as if it's an established fact. That is all I need to hear. I dislike liars and snake oil salesmen.

The point he's making is no amount of immigration into the United States is going to make an impact on world poverty, ever. It's impossible. We're only hurting our own economy, so why do it at all?

 

[Some Guy]

Why do we let millions of poor and uneducated people in when we're not making a humanitarian difference?

We don't.

We do. At the time the video was made we were letting in about a million a year. He talks about it in the first couple minutes.

What he says is that the "poor and uneducated" aren't able to access immigration into the US--instead its those with means and qualifications who are among the million yearly immigrants.

He says the desperately poor can't get here. Mexicans that cross the border still tend to be poor and uneducated, perhaps not as much as somebody from the plains of Africa. Our economy doesn't need these people. It's a detriment to us.

I.e. skilled labor, not unskilled.

 

[Confounding]

No. That is not the point of the OP.

That is my point, and I used that video to help make it.

 

[Confounding]

I watched, its the polite thing to do. what I don't get is what political party any where is trying to fix world poverty?

Is empathy and wanting to make a difference not why we let in desperate people and spend billions annually to help people all over the world?

 

[Harry Dresden]

It's a 6 minute long video. Watch the whole thing.

I've never heard the argument that letting people into the US will reduce world poverty.

But hey.

The point is the left convinces us to let in millions of people every year, mistakenly assuming they are making some kind of humanitarian difference. Instead all they're really doing is making it harder for Americans, and at a time when things are already hard for Americans. It's truly heartbreaking that so many struggle, but we can't save them; it's impossible. We can't even save most or even a lot of them. There are too many people and our little bubble of prosperity is not big enough for everybody. So I guess your choices are to enjoy your way of life and accept that you are privileged and extremely lucky, or feel guilty for what you have and attempt to mitigate that guild by burdening America for no logical reason.

Nonsense.

Good response from another left wing intellectual.

jones is a left wing coward....

 

[BULLDOG]

not this shit again

I've never heard anyone say allowing immigrants would reduce world poverty. Where did that goober come up with such a dumb idea? He hasn't built a straw man. He built a gumball man. Is this all RWNJs have to spend their time on?

Why do we let in millions of people annually if we're not actually making a humanitarian difference? It certainly has a very real impact on our economy.

Of course we are making a humanitarian difference. That is what we, as a country are known for. Your misguided OP claims it's about reducing world poverty. That's bullshit.

 

[Stormy Daniels]

He says the desperately poor can't get here. Mexicans that cross the border still tend to be poor and uneducated, perhaps not as much as somebody from the plains of Africa. Our economy doesn't need these people. It's a detriment to us.

Nothing he says is about illegal immigration. The entire video is about legal immigration. You are confusing apples with oranges.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It's a 6 minute long video. Watch the whole thing.

Nah, just summarize it in your own words.

He uses visuals and some rather good points to illustrate that it's impossible for us to make a difference in the world by letting poor people come to America, and that in fact we are harming some countries by taking their most dissatisfied people, people that would be agents for change if they stayed in those countries. Basically it's a feel good operation that doesn't make a meaningful impact, except on our economy.

I would respond to that nonsense by saying that the "agents of change" to whom he refers are forced into submission by armed thugs and have been for decades. So his whimsical ideas of them changing their own countries in their own lifetimes is folly, as they are generally making decisions for the well being of their children. I would also show the benefit of immigration to this country, using facts, to undermine his appeals to emotion that it hurts our economy. I would also point out countries whose immigrants this country took in throughout history that managed to change for the better, even without the immigrants who left. This would undermine yet another of his emotional over generalities. Is there anything left after that? Nope...just emotional appeals.

 

[Confounding]

He says the desperately poor can't get here. Mexicans that cross the border still tend to be poor and uneducated, perhaps not as much as somebody from the plains of Africa. Our economy doesn't need these people. It's a detriment to us.

Nothing he says is about illegal immigration. The entire video is about legal immigration. You are confusing apples with oranges.

Most of the legal Mexican immigrants are poor and uneducated too, and then when they come here they take manual labor jobs. I'm using the fact that we can't make a humanitarian difference to ask the question "Why take these people in at all?"

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The point has already been made several times that our economy is running out of use for uneducated labor as technology improves.

That would not be an argument against immigration as much as an argument for reforming our educational system. The children of these immigrants will be products of this education system in a decade.10 years. That's not far off. And the facts show they perform better than the average American, as they are more aspirational. So,if anything, increasing immigration would help alleviate this problem.

 

[BULLDOG]

not this shit again

I've never heard anyone say allowing immigrants would reduce world poverty. Where did that goober come up with such a dumb idea? He hasn't built a straw man. He built a gumball man. Is this all RWNJs have to spend their time on?

Then WHAT is the purpose of allowing a MILLION Turd World immigrants into this country? How does THIS country benefit?..And aren't you TEYING to benefit Mexico by taking away THEIR burden by taking in THEIR poorest of the poor?

No. That is not the purpose. Beyond the humanitarian purpose of helping the refugees, it helps us.
In 2017, Trump ordered a study by Health and Human Services to determine the cost of refugees. When the result showed that refugees brought 63 billion more in government revenue over the last decade than they cost, he had the release of the study blocked.

Trump administration officials reject report on refugees: report
Trump administration officials reject report on refugees: report
BY REBECCA SAVRANSKY - 09/19/17 07:21 AM EDT

That study basically says that they buy some stuff and pay sales tax on it. No shit? That doesn't mean letting a million or more in every year is good for our economy or the average American.

It says they supply 63 billion more than they cost. you don't think that is a very good thing? Get someone to explain it to you.

 

[Camp]

not this shit again

I've never heard anyone say allowing immigrants would reduce world poverty. Where did that goober come up with such a dumb idea? He hasn't built a straw man. He built a gumball man. Is this all RWNJs have to spend their time on?

Why do we let in millions of people annually if we're not actually making a humanitarian difference? It certainly has a very real impact on our economy.

Of course we are making a humanitarian difference. That is what we, as a country are known for. Your misguided OP claims it's about reducing world poverty. That's bullshit.

Therein lies the hook right at the beginning of the scam.

 

[Confounding]

I would also show the benefit of immigration to this country, using facts, to undermine his appeals to emotion that it hurts our economy.

Do you have access to nonpartisan information that shows indisputably that letting millions of low education immigrants come to America every year is a net positive for our economy and way of life in what is about to be a post-labor world?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I would also show the benefit of immigration to this country, using facts, to undermine his appeals to emotion that it hurts our economy.

Do you have access to nonpartisan information that shows indisputably that letting millions of low education immigrants come to America every year is a net positive for our economy and way of life in what is about to be a post-labor world?

I do not, nor would such silly, general ideas be valid if I tried to make stats fit them, nor would such universal statements be required to be always true for my arguments to be sound.. I will dismiss your request as a tactic of avoiding the arguments presented to you thus far.