I Think My World is Upside Down

[logical4u]

The lesson is: you cannot control your world, only the way you react to it. As long as one person can react 'well', others will follow. As long as there are children, there will be gladness and joy. As long as the world turns, there is a possibility tomorrow will be better. Wishin' you a great sunrise!

 

[Foxfyre]

Thank you for participating TM.

Now I will hope for some responses for people who usually think before they speak. Comments like yours spoken without thinking or any basis in fact are one of the reasons I am depressed.

With all due respect, TruthMatters makes an excellent point.

There is a reason why things don't seem to be going the way conservatives want them to be going these days - there is a Democratic administration in the White House. And why is that? Eight years of abuse of governmental power by the Bush administration, not to mention the creation of a nightmarish economy.

Additionally, many of the examples cited in the OP are debatable as presented. For example, the ACLU reporesents all kinds of people - in fact, whether conservatives like it or not, they often represent conservative people and conservative interests.

Perhaps, when viewed in the context of what has preceded the present administration, turning something like that upside down might be a very GOOD thing for America.

I do not quarrel with any context that recognizes that leftists and rightists perceive through very different eyes at time. I do not quarrel with any acknowledgment that our ideology can and does color the perspective that we have.

Nor did I attribute the perceptions in the OP to anybody other than myself.

I do take strong exception to an opinion that everything would be just hunky dory 'if the cons hadn't screwed it all up.'

Would you not take exception if I had said that it was all the fault of you liberals?

 

[LuckyDan]

Thank you for participating TM.

Now I will hope for some responses for people who usually think before they speak. Comments like yours spoken without thinking or any basis in fact are one of the reasons I am depressed.

With all due respect, TruthMatters makes an excellent point.

There is a reason why things don't seem to be going the way conservatives want them to be going these days - there is a Democratic administration in the White House. And why is that? Eight years of abuse of governmental power by the Bush administration, not to mention the creation of a nightmarish economy.

Additionally, many of the examples cited in the OP are debatable as presented. For example, the ACLU reporesents all kinds of people - in fact, whether conservatives like it or not, they often represent conservative people and conservative interests.

Perhaps, when viewed in the context of what has preceded the present administration, turning something like that upside down might be a very GOOD thing for America.

"Often?" I would say accidentally, and when it suits their purposes.

I was looking for some history on their second amendment defenses (quick reading if your interested) and came across this. I find the Scalia quote apt, and funny, so I thought I'd share:


Scalia has ruled in a handful of cases the ACLU favored, particularly on free speech. In 1989, he voted with a narrow majority to allow flag burning as a form of free expression. "That's how I read the First Amendment," Scalia said, then he quipped, "I don't necessarily like the way I come out in cases."

 

[Samson]

Thank you for participating TM.

Now I will hope for some responses for people who usually think before they speak. Comments like yours spoken without thinking or any basis in fact are one of the reasons I am depressed.

With all due respect, TruthMatters makes an excellent point.

There is a reason why things don't seem to be going the way conservatives want them to be going these days - there is a Democratic administration in the White House. And why is that? Eight years of abuse of governmental power by the Bush administration, not to mention the creation of a nightmarish economy.

I'd agree with you, IF power in our government was not shared.

And IF all Republicans were conservatives (as Limbaugh would have everyone believe)

However, During the Bush Administration, there were democrats in congress. In fact, the 110th Congress (the last of four during his administration) was held by Democrats in both the House and Senate.

AND Bush did more than a few things to upset consevatives. So did his father, "NO New Taxes" Bush, and so did Ronald "Amnesty" Reagan. Conservatives?

 

[CMike]

Don't forget that John Kerry says that Syria is committed to peace, and the Obama Administration publically attacks Israel for planning to build a building in it's own capital

 

[gslack]

Well don't take anything I said as a inevitable doom... We will get it right sometime.... I have faith in humanity. Might be a while but we will come around....

Oh I didn't take your comments as 'inevitable doom' and if I gave that impression, I apologize. The 'eternal optimist' under my screen name is a true description of my attitude most of the time.

But looking at the opposite perspectives between you and Samson, I think about my husband's mother who when asked why she named him and his twin what she did, replied that she didn't put any thought into it because she didn't think it would matter. She didn't think there would be any world by the time they grew up.

I think about my own mother who used to comment that the world seemed so much harsher and less fun and less positive when I was a kid than it was when she was a kid. And yet to me the world was just fine then and I much preferred it to the world now.

So will today's kids look back on these times as the 'good old days' and see values and M.O. that they want to be reinstated? Or will they prefer the here and now as some do and will only see the negatives of the past?

Sorry it took me so long to get back with you on this fox... Had a game to coach and work to do....

Also we cannot forget we rarely hear about the good things going on. If it bleeds it leads is the old adage in the media. Sensational things sell, and thats what we will get from the media most of the time. Also without conflict we wouldn't need District attorneys or Attorney Generals. So if you go by their reports you will get all the bad news and none of the good.

I feel we as a people and society will fix this. We came from a lot worse, and if we could overcome some of the things from the past, this will be overcome as well.

 

[Thinman]

Our leaders lack honesty and integrity. How many have broken campaign promises? They will do, or say, anything to get elected. How can we elect honest polticians? How can we know?

 

[George Costanza]

Thank you for participating TM.

Now I will hope for some responses for people who usually think before they speak. Comments like yours spoken without thinking or any basis in fact are one of the reasons I am depressed.

With all due respect, TruthMatters makes an excellent point.

There is a reason why things don't seem to be going the way conservatives want them to be going these days - there is a Democratic administration in the White House. And why is that? Eight years of abuse of governmental power by the Bush administration, not to mention the creation of a nightmarish economy.

Additionally, many of the examples cited in the OP are debatable as presented. For example, the ACLU reporesents all kinds of people - in fact, whether conservatives like it or not, they often represent conservative people and conservative interests.

Perhaps, when viewed in the context of what has preceded the present administration, turning something like that upside down might be a very GOOD thing for America.

I do not quarrel with any context that recognizes that leftists and rightists perceive through very different eyes at time. I do not quarrel with any acknowledgment that our ideology can and does color the perspective that we have.

Nor did I attribute the perceptions in the OP to anybody other than myself.

I do take strong exception to an opinion that everything would be just hunky dory 'if the cons hadn't screwed it all up.'

Would you not take exception if I had said that it was all the fault of you liberals?

No - because, almost by definition these days, anything that liberals are for, conservatives will take exception to and claim that it is ruining the country, and vice versa when the cons are in control and running the place.

I guess that's why we have a two party system.

 

[Foxfyre]

With all due respect, TruthMatters makes an excellent point.

There is a reason why things don't seem to be going the way conservatives want them to be going these days - there is a Democratic administration in the White House. And why is that? Eight years of abuse of governmental power by the Bush administration, not to mention the creation of a nightmarish economy.

Additionally, many of the examples cited in the OP are debatable as presented. For example, the ACLU reporesents all kinds of people - in fact, whether conservatives like it or not, they often represent conservative people and conservative interests.

Perhaps, when viewed in the context of what has preceded the present administration, turning something like that upside down might be a very GOOD thing for America.

I do not quarrel with any context that recognizes that leftists and rightists perceive through very different eyes at time. I do not quarrel with any acknowledgment that our ideology can and does color the perspective that we have.

Nor did I attribute the perceptions in the OP to anybody other than myself.

I do take strong exception to an opinion that everything would be just hunky dory 'if the cons hadn't screwed it all up.'

Would you not take exception if I had said that it was all the fault of you liberals?

No - because, almost by definition these days, anything that liberals are for, conservatives will take exception to and claim that it is ruining the country, and vice versa when the cons are in control and running the place.

I guess that's why we have a two party system.

Okay then, according to you, I should feel free and justified in blaming every problem that exists in the country on you apparent perpetrators on the left since you seem to think that is the common view. I hope you are able to see how silly a view that would be.

I have always held out hope that there were a few souls left on the planet who could honestly hold differing perspectives and points of view in a much more intelligent manner and who are realistic enough to not assume their ideological opponents are guilty of everything that goes wrong or falls short of the ideal.

Honestly I had put you in the intelligent category George. Surely you're not wanting me to take you out.

I always assumed the two party system was intended to give people a choice between opposing ideological perspectives. Silly me.

 

[Foxfyre]

Well don't take anything I said as a inevitable doom... We will get it right sometime.... I have faith in humanity. Might be a while but we will come around....

Oh I didn't take your comments as 'inevitable doom' and if I gave that impression, I apologize. The 'eternal optimist' under my screen name is a true description of my attitude most of the time.

But looking at the opposite perspectives between you and Samson, I think about my husband's mother who when asked why she named him and his twin what she did, replied that she didn't put any thought into it because she didn't think it would matter. She didn't think there would be any world by the time they grew up.

I think about my own mother who used to comment that the world seemed so much harsher and less fun and less positive when I was a kid than it was when she was a kid. And yet to me the world was just fine then and I much preferred it to the world now.

So will today's kids look back on these times as the 'good old days' and see values and M.O. that they want to be reinstated? Or will they prefer the here and now as some do and will only see the negatives of the past?

Sorry it took me so long to get back with you on this fox... Had a game to coach and work to do....

Also we cannot forget we rarely hear about the good things going on. If it bleeds it leads is the old adage in the media. Sensational things sell, and thats what we will get from the media most of the time. Also without conflict we wouldn't need District attorneys or Attorney Generals. So if you go by their reports you will get all the bad news and none of the good.

I feel we as a people and society will fix this. We came from a lot worse, and if we could overcome some of the things from the past, this will be overcome as well.

You are absolutely right, and for reasons you and I know (and others will just have to wonder about ) you have reminded me of that tonight, and I thank you for that. It is easy to slide into morbid fixation on the dark side and fail to appreciate the possibilities and that we humans have usually found a way to utilize them.

So we'll meander over to the coffee shop, share a brew or two with our friends from all the sociopolitical persuasions, realize we all have something to say and something to offer, get a good night's sleep, and arise to a new day.

 

[gslack]

Oh I didn't take your comments as 'inevitable doom' and if I gave that impression, I apologize. The 'eternal optimist' under my screen name is a true description of my attitude most of the time.

But looking at the opposite perspectives between you and Samson, I think about my husband's mother who when asked why she named him and his twin what she did, replied that she didn't put any thought into it because she didn't think it would matter. She didn't think there would be any world by the time they grew up.

I think about my own mother who used to comment that the world seemed so much harsher and less fun and less positive when I was a kid than it was when she was a kid. And yet to me the world was just fine then and I much preferred it to the world now.

So will today's kids look back on these times as the 'good old days' and see values and M.O. that they want to be reinstated? Or will they prefer the here and now as some do and will only see the negatives of the past?

Sorry it took me so long to get back with you on this fox... Had a game to coach and work to do....

Also we cannot forget we rarely hear about the good things going on. If it bleeds it leads is the old adage in the media. Sensational things sell, and thats what we will get from the media most of the time. Also without conflict we wouldn't need District attorneys or Attorney Generals. So if you go by their reports you will get all the bad news and none of the good.

I feel we as a people and society will fix this. We came from a lot worse, and if we could overcome some of the things from the past, this will be overcome as well.

You are absolutely right, and for reasons you and I know (and others will just have to wonder about ) you have reminded me of that tonight, and I thank you for that. It is easy to slide into morbid fixation on the dark side and fail to appreciate the possibilities and that we humans have usually found a way to utilize them.

So we'll meander over to the coffee shop, share a brew or two with our friends from all the sociopolitical persuasions, realize we all have something to say and something to offer, get a good night's sleep, and arise to a new day.

I may not be a religious man, but I must say AMEN to that.... Night fox!

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

A world upside down....there is an interesting short film called Koyaanisqats (Hopi for " Life Out of Balance") that explores how life has gotten so out of balance - not in specific ways like you mention but in more general patterns. It starts with the slow process' of change - water carving canyons, village life etc up into urban mass living and high speed everything...everything just happening faster and faster with no balance. It has no dialogue only fantastic filming and music.
But our world is out of balance - the pace of change is so rapid we can't adapt to it and culture, ethics, and morality have no time to evolve.

That's just my opinion....though we differ in the particulars, I find myself stranded in the middle of the stream much more lately.

 

[Coyote]

Further observation on Coyote's post:

But our world is out of balance - the pace of change is so rapid we can't adapt to it and culture, ethics, and morality have no time to evolve.

Some time back where I business was going full steam, I would do field work during the day, worked out or did fun stuff when most of the world was still up after work, and then did paper work late in the evening. With the radio running in the background from 11 pm on, I started listening to Art Bell. Now Art dealt in a lot of wierd stuff - alien visitations and things like that - but he had a theory about a 'quickening' that Coyote summed up in the quoted sentence above.

The 'quickening' is a phenomenon when everything on Earth begins speeding up toward some great cataclysmic conclusion and there is nothing we can do to stop it.

Now I don't believe in a great deal of the stuff Art featured on his program, but I have given some thought to the 'quickening' as a good illustration of a social phenomenon more than some kind of cosmic event.

So maybe I'm not going nuts but several of us are feeling it these days?

I've never listened to Art Bell...but it reminds me a little of James Burke, who did two fantastic series: "The Day the Universe Changed" and "Connections" both of which dealt with invention, innovation, change and how they were interconnected - often accidently. One of the things that sticks in my mind though, was a statement that the rate of change isn't linear, but exponential and that doesn't give human cultures enough time to adapt to it.

I think of two examples that fit. One is concerning ethics in the face of genetic manipulations, fertility treatments leading to large multiple births, abortion on demand and cloning. The other is using the clash with third world Islamic countries and the western world. Progress, technology, a global economy and a globalizing culture is conflicting directly with traditional values that have changed little from medievil times - and there hasn't been enough time to adapt. Islam is a religion that is facing it's reformation in much the same way Christianity did, during Martin Luther's time.

Philosophy and ethics have long been denigrated in favor of science, technology andn progress but I think we need them now more than ever, to deal with progress.

 

[Coyote]

A world upside down....there is an interesting short film called Koyaanisqats (Hopi for " Life Out of Balance") that explores how life has gotten so out of balance - not in specific ways like you mention but in more general patterns. It starts with the slow process' of change - water carving canyons, village life etc up into urban mass living and high speed everything...everything just happening faster and faster with no balance. It has no dialogue only fantastic filming and music.
But our world is out of balance - the pace of change is so rapid we can't adapt to it and culture, ethics, and morality have no time to evolve.

That's just my opinion....though we differ in the particulars, I find myself stranded in the middle of the stream much more lately.

?

 

[Coyote]

Thank you for participating TM.

Now I will hope for some responses for people who usually think before they speak. Comments like yours spoken without thinking or any basis in fact are one of the reasons I am depressed.

With all due respect, TruthMatters makes an excellent point.

There is a reason why things don't seem to be going the way conservatives want them to be going these days - there is a Democratic administration in the White House. And why is that? Eight years of abuse of governmental power by the Bush administration, not to mention the creation of a nightmarish economy.

Additionally, many of the examples cited in the OP are debatable as presented. For example, the ACLU reporesents all kinds of people - in fact, whether conservatives like it or not, they often represent conservative people and conservative interests.

Perhaps, when viewed in the context of what has preceded the present administration, turning something like that upside down might be a very GOOD thing for America.

"Often?" I would say accidentally, and when it suits their purposes.

I was looking for some history on their second amendment defenses (quick reading if your interested) and came across this. I find the Scalia quote apt, and funny, so I thought I'd share:


Scalia has ruled in a handful of cases the ACLU favored, particularly on free speech. In 1989, he voted with a narrow majority to allow flag burning as a form of free expression. "That's how I read the First Amendment," Scalia said, then he quipped, "I don't necessarily like the way I come out in cases."

Accidently? I don't think so...

 

[Foxfyre]

Has anybody ever wondered why the ACLU would exert so many resources and so much time to little bitty suits aimed at obscure targets?

Such as this one re Tijeras NM, population under 1000?:

Here's the seal:

ACLU lawyers get out their magnifying glasses
Oct 30, 2005 12:00 am

The "tiny cross" people at the American Civil Liberties Union are at it again. These are the folks with extra-keen eyes and powerful magnifying glasses who examine the official seals of towns and counties, looking for miniature crosses that ACLU lawyers like to trumpet as grave threats to separation of church and state.

This time around, the folks with the magnifying glasses are leaning on the village of Tijeras, N.M., whose seal contains a conquistador's helmet and sword, a scroll, a desert plant, a fairly large religious symbol (the Native American zia) and a quite small Christian cross. "Tiny cross" inspectors are not permitted to fret about large non-Christian religious symbols, only undersized Christian ones, so the ACLU filed suit to get the cross removed.

The cross is obviously not an endorsement of religion, any more than the conquistador helmet and sword are endorsements of Spanish warfare. The courts have ruled, not always consistently, that crosses, as historical references in such seals and logos, are permissible. But the ACLU, these days, is strongly committed to seeing church-state crises everywhere, and, therefore, pushes things way too far.

Last year, the ACLU demanded that Los Angeles County eliminate from its seal a microscopic cross representing the missions that settled the state of California.
ACLU lawyers get out their magnifying glasses | Perspective

The ACLU also successfully got a tiny historical Franciscan cross removed from the Bernalillo County seal here in New Mexico a decade or so ago.

The reason the ACLU gets involved is because if they are successful, under a provision of the Civil Rights Act, they can collect hundreds of thousands of dollars in attorney fees and expenses from the US government. That means from you and me. So, they are not adverse to scrounging around to find some patsy who will agree to be the plaintiff and file the suit.

HR 2679 and its companion bills in the House and Senate has now been introduced four times to get this ridiculous situation corrected, but the ACLU is a powerful lobby with powerful friends in Congress.

And that is one situation that, in my opinion, is upside down from the way things ought to be.

 

[Foxfyre]

Hmmm, response to the ACLU thing. Crickets.

Well it IS pretty hard to defend the ACLU there I think.

Yesterday I heard President Obama and President Calderon, neither who has presumably read the Arizona immigration law, denounce it for the 'discrimination' it promotes. This despite the fact that it is explicitly stated in four different places in that law that discrimination/profiling etc. will not be permitted.

Yet President Obama does nothing to address problems of illegal immigration and President Calderon presumes to lecture US about discrimination?

So there's another way that the world looks very upside down to me.

 

[gslack]

Hmmm, response to the ACLU thing. Crickets.

Well it IS pretty hard to defend the ACLU there I think.

Yesterday I heard President Obama and President Calderon, neither who has presumably read the Arizona immigration law, denounce it for the 'discrimination' it promotes. This despite the fact that it is explicitly stated in four different places in that law that discrimination/profiling etc. will not be permitted.

Yet President Obama does nothing to address problems of illegal immigration and President Calderon presumes to lecture US about discrimination?

So there's another way that the world looks very upside down to me.

yeah fox its politics as usual... No need to read what they actually have no care about.... its not about anything more than grandstanding.... Well I will post more when time permits. kinda swamped to day. Good thread, thoughtful and sometimes those types of things aren't sensational enough for the star wars generation.... Sad state of affairs....

 

[PixieStix]

The world is not upside down, it is inside out. And I feel like an alien from another planet

 

[Conspiracist]

So will today's kids look back on these times as the 'good old days' and see values and M.O. that they want to be reinstated? Or will they prefer the here and now as some do and will only see the negatives of the past?

I don't believe so.