Zone1 I repent of saying certain things about prominent liberals

[BULLDOG]

You need to learn some science rather than making up capricious and arbitrary standards to assuage your guilt.

"After fertilization has taken place a new human being has come into being...[this] is no longer a matter of taste or opinion, it is not a metaphysical contention, it is plain experimental evidence...." - Dr Jerome LeJeune, Professor of Genetics at the University of Descartes, Paris, discoverer of the chromosome pattern of Down's Syndrome, and Nobel Prize Winner, Report, Subcommittee on Separation of Powers to Senate Judiciary Committee S-158, 97th Congress, 1st Session 1981

"An individual human life begins at conception when a sperm cell from the father fuses with an egg cell from the mother, to form a new cell, the zygote, the first embryonic stage. The zygote grows and divides into two daughter cells, each of which grows and divides into two grand-daughter cells, and this cell growth/division process continues on, over and over again. The zygote is the start of a biological continuum that automatically grows and develops, passing gradually and sequentially through the stages we call foetus, baby, child, adult, old person and ending eventually in death. The full genetic instructions to guide the development of the continuum, in interaction with its environment, are present in the zygote. Every stage along the continuum is biologically human and each point along the continuum has the full human properties appropriate to that point."
Dr. William Reville, University College Cork, Ireland

You noted two that oppose abortion. There are thousands with equal credentials that disagree.

 

[BULLDOG]

Then stop making moral arguments. Be an animal. Be Darwinian. Wolves don't apologize to sheep for eating their young and sheep don't see wolves as evil for eating their young.

We are not wolves.

 

[ding]

You noted two that oppose abortion. There are thousands with equal credentials that disagree.

I have no idea what their position on abortion is. They weren't addressing abortion. They were addressing when human life begins.

And, no... you won't find any scientists that disagree that human life begins at conception. That's what is taught in every embryology textbook. Feel free to post citations that disagree with that.

“Human life begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm (spermatozoo developmentn) unites with a female gamete or oocyte (ovum) to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marked the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.” “A zygote is the beginning of a new human being (i.e., an embryo).”

Keith L. Moore, The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2003. pp. 16, 2.

“In that fraction of a second when the chromosomes form pairs, the sex of the new child will be determined, hereditary characteristics received from each parent will be set, and a new life will have begun.”

Kaluger, G., and Kaluger, M., Human Development: The Span of Life, page 28-29, The C.V. Mosby Co., St. Louis, 1974.

“It should always be remembered that many organs are still not completely developed by full-term and birth should be regarded only as an incident in the whole developmental process.”

F Beck Human Embryology, Blackwell Scientific Publications, 1985 page vi

“It is the penetration of the ovum by a sperm and the resulting mingling of nuclear material each brings to the union that constitutes the initiation of the life of a new individual.”

Clark Edward and Corliss Patten’s Human Embryology, McGraw – Hill Inc., 30

“Although it is customary to divide human development into prenatal and postnatal periods, it is important to realize that birth is merely a dramatic event during development resulting in a change in environment.”

The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology fifth edition, Moore and Persaud, 1993, Saunders Company, page 1

“The zygote and early embryo are living human organisms.”

Keith L. Moore & T.V.N. Persaud Before We Are Born – Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects (W.B. Saunders Company, 1998. Fifth edition.) Page 500

“The term conception refers to the union of the male and female pronuclear elements of procreation from which a new living being develops. It is synonymous with the terms fecundation, impregnation, and fertilization … The zygote thus formed represents the beginning of a new life.”

J.P. Greenhill and E.A. Freidman. Biological Principles and Modern Practice of Obstetrics. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Publishers. 1974 Pages 17 and 23.

“[The zygote], formed by the union of an oocyte and a sperm, is the beginning of a new human being.”

Keith L. Moore, Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2008. p. 2.

“Although life is a continuous process, fertilization… is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new genetically distinct human organism is formed when the chromosomes of the male and female pronuclei blend in the oocyte.”

Ronan O’Rahilly and Fabiola Miller, Human Embryology and Teratology, 3rd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 2001. p. 8.

“[All] organisms, however large and complex they might be as full grown, begin life as a single cell. This is true for the human being, for instance, who begins life as a fertilized ovum.”

Dr. Morris Krieger “The Human Reproductive System” p 88 (1969) Sterling Pub. Co

“The first cell of a new and unique human life begins existence at the moment of conception (fertilization) when one living sperm from the father joins with one living ovum from the mother. It is in this manner that human life passes from one generation to another. Given the appropriate environment and genetic composition, the single cell subsequently gives rise to trillions of specialized and integrated cells that compose the structures and functions of each individual human body. Every human being alive today and, as far as is known scientifically, every human being that ever existed, began his or her unique existence in this manner, i.e., as one cell. If this first cell or any subsequent configuration of cells perishes, the individual dies, ceasing to exist in matter as a living being. There are no known exceptions to this rule in the field of human biology.”
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James Bopp, ed., Human Life and Health Care Ethics, vol. 2 (Frederick, MD: University Publications of America, 1985)

“The formation, maturation and meeting of a male and female sex cell are all preliminary to their actual union into a combined cell, or zygote, which definitely marks the beginning of a new individual. The penetration of the ovum by the spermatozoon, and the coming together and pooling of their respective nuclei, constitutes the process of fertilization.”

Leslie Brainerd Arey, “Developmental Anatomy” seventh edition space (Philadelphia: Saunders, 1974), 55

“The zygote therefore contains a new arrangement of genes on the chromosomes never before duplicated in any other individual. The offspring destined to develop from the fertilized ovum will have a genetic constitution different from anyone else in the world.”

DeCoursey, R.M., The Human Organism, 4th edition McGraw Hill Inc., Toronto, 1974. page 584

“The science of the development of the individual before birth is called embryology. It is the story of miracles, describing the means by which a single microscopic cell is transformed into a complex human being. Genetically the zygote is complete. It represents a new single celled individual.”

Thibodeau, G.A., and Anthony, C.P., Structure and Function of the Body, 8th edition, St. Louis: Times Mirror/Mosby College Publishers, St. Louis, 1988. pages 409-419

“Each human begins life as a combination of two cells, a female ovum and a much smaller male sperm. This tiny unit, no bigger than a period on this page, contains all the information needed to enable it to grow into the complex …structure of the human body. The mother has only to provide nutrition and protection.”

Clark, J. ed., The Nervous System: Circuits of Communication in the Human Body, Torstar Books Inc., Toronto, 1985, page 99

“A zygote (a single fertilized egg cell) represents the onset of pregnancy and the genesis of new life.”

Turner, J.S., and Helms, D.B., Lifespan Developmental, 2nd ed., CBS College Publishing (Holt, Rhinehart, Winston), 1983, page 53

“Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote)… The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, of the individual.”

Carlson, Bruce M. Patten’s Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3

“Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism…. At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun…. The term embryo covers the several stages of early development from conception to the ninth or tenth week of life.”
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Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand’s Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943

“In that fraction of a second when the chromosomes form pairs, [at conception] the sex of the new child will be determined, hereditary characteristics received from each parent will be set, and a new life will have begun.”

Kaluger, G., and Kaluger, M., Human Development: The Span of Life, page 28-29, The C.V. Mosby Co., St. Louis, 1974

“The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote.”

Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3

“It is the penetration of the ovum by a spermatozoan and resultant mingling of the nuclear material each brings to the union that constitutes the culmination of the process of fertilization and marks the initiation of the life of a new individual.”

Human Embryology, 3rd ed. Bradley M. Patten, (New York: McGraw Hill, 1968), 43.

“In this text, we begin our description of the developing human with the formation and differentiation of the male and female sex cells or gametes, which will unite at fertilization to initiate the embryonic development of a new individual. … Fertilization takes place in the oviduct … resulting in the formation of a zygote containing a single diploid nucleus. Embryonic development is considered to begin at this point… This moment of zygote formation may be taken as the beginning or zero time point of embryonic development.”
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Essentials of Human Embryology, William J. Larsen, (New York: Churchill Livingstone, 1998), 1-17.

“Fertilization is an important landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed… Fertilization is the procession of events that begins when a spermatozoon makes contact with a secondary oocyte or its investments… The zygote … is a unicellular embryo..”

From Human Embryology & Teratology, Ronan R. O’Rahilly, Fabiola Muller, (New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996), 5-55.

“[The Zygote] results from the union of an oocyte and a sperm. A zygote is the beginning of a new human being. Human development begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm … unites with a female gamete or oocyte … to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.”
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The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 6th ed. Keith L. Moore, Ph.D. & T.V.N. Persaud, Md., (Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1998), 2-18:

 

[ding]

We are not wolves.

Don't shy away from your belief that humans are nothing more than animals chasing their material needs and satisfying primitive impulses. Lean into it.

After all these are the logical conclusions of your atheism.

 

[alang1216]

You are the one being arbitrary, not me.

The literal difference is one is an egg and the other is a zygote which is a new, genetically distinct human being.

Life is a continuum. The egg, sperm, and zygote are all genetically distinct. I just don't see how combining the egg & sperm makes that zygote so much more valuable.

If you had argued that abortion ends the life of a new and genetically distinct human being - one that has never existed before and will never exist again - and that you are good with ending that life, then I would have no need to argue with you. It's your fucked up moral rationalizations that I take exception with.

Yes, abortion ends the life of a new and genetically distinct human being. To which I say, that is sad, but the alternative may be worse in some cases.

No. I'm not projecting anything upon you, dummy. I'm trying to get you to see reality and be honest with yourself.

It's hilarious that you believe you have no expectation of fairness when every argument you make is a moral argument. Especially since your pretzel logic ass ***** reality so you can see yourself as a good and moral person.

We all have our own unique moral compass but that doesn't mean the world has to follow it.

 

[BULLDOG]

I have no idea what their position on abortion is. They weren't addressing abortion. They were addressing when human life begins.

And, no... you won't find any scientists that disagree that human life begins at conception. That's what is taught in every embryology textbook. Feel free to post citations that disagree with that.


Keith L. Moore, The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2003. pp. 16, 2.


Kaluger, G., and Kaluger, M., Human Development: The Span of Life, page 28-29, The C.V. Mosby Co., St. Louis, 1974.


F Beck Human Embryology, Blackwell Scientific Publications, 1985 page vi


Clark Edward and Corliss Patten’s Human Embryology, McGraw – Hill Inc., 30


The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology fifth edition, Moore and Persaud, 1993, Saunders Company, page 1


Keith L. Moore & T.V.N. Persaud Before We Are Born – Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects (W.B. Saunders Company, 1998. Fifth edition.) Page 500


J.P. Greenhill and E.A. Freidman. Biological Principles and Modern Practice of Obstetrics. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Publishers. 1974 Pages 17 and 23.


Keith L. Moore, Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2008. p. 2.


Ronan O’Rahilly and Fabiola Miller, Human Embryology and Teratology, 3rd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 2001. p. 8.


Dr. Morris Krieger “The Human Reproductive System” p 88 (1969) Sterling Pub. Co


James Bopp, ed., Human Life and Health Care Ethics, vol. 2 (Frederick, MD: University Publications of America, 1985)


Leslie Brainerd Arey, “Developmental Anatomy” seventh edition space (Philadelphia: Saunders, 1974), 55


DeCoursey, R.M., The Human Organism, 4th edition McGraw Hill Inc., Toronto, 1974. page 584


Thibodeau, G.A., and Anthony, C.P., Structure and Function of the Body, 8th edition, St. Louis: Times Mirror/Mosby College Publishers, St. Louis, 1988. pages 409-419


Clark, J. ed., The Nervous System: Circuits of Communication in the Human Body, Torstar Books Inc., Toronto, 1985, page 99


Turner, J.S., and Helms, D.B., Lifespan Developmental, 2nd ed., CBS College Publishing (Holt, Rhinehart, Winston), 1983, page 53


Carlson, Bruce M. Patten’s Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3


Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand’s Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943


Kaluger, G., and Kaluger, M., Human Development: The Span of Life, page 28-29, The C.V. Mosby Co., St. Louis, 1974


Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3


Human Embryology, 3rd ed. Bradley M. Patten, (New York: McGraw Hill, 1968), 43.


Essentials of Human Embryology, William J. Larsen, (New York: Churchill Livingstone, 1998), 1-17.


From Human Embryology & Teratology, Ronan R. O’Rahilly, Fabiola Muller, (New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996), 5-55.


The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 6th ed. Keith L. Moore, Ph.D. & T.V.N. Persaud, Md., (Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1998), 2-18:

Again, cancer cells are life. Without sentience it's not a person.

 

[BULLDOG]

Don't shy away from your belief that humans are nothing more than animals chasing their material needs and satisfying primitive impulses. Lean into it.

After all these are the logical conclusions of your atheism.

No. they are part of the goofy things you believe. That is all.

 

[ding]

Life is a continuum. The egg, sperm, and zygote are all genetically distinct. I just don't see how combining the egg & sperm makes that zygote so much more valuable.

Life is a continuum, but that's no reason to ass **** the science like you are doing. The egg has the DNA of the mother. The sperm has the DNA of the father. The zygote has DNA that is genetically different than the mother and the father. The egg is not a living being. The sperm is not a living being. The zygote is a living being. Why is this so difficult for you to understand? It's taught in every embryology textbook.

Where does "value" enter into any of these facts?

Yes, abortion ends the life of a new and genetically distinct human being. To which I say, that is sad, but the alternative may be worse in some cases.

This is progress. I don't really care if you support or oppose abortion. I only care that you state the facts correctly. But I can't help noticing how you are still trying to make a moral argument that abortion is fair. It's not fair.

We all have our own unique moral compass but that doesn't mean the world has to follow it.

Life isn't fair. Expect to make sacrifices. But make no mistake, life will impose impositions upon you whether or not you willingly make that sacrifice or not.

 

[ding]

Again, cancer cells are life. Without sentience it's not a person.

That you equate cancer cells to a zygote is amazing. It's no wonder you have established an arbitrary and capricious definition for humanness. You are not an honest person.

 

[ding]

No. they are part of the goofy things you believe. That is all.

I don't believe you are intelligent enough to understand what it means to only believe in a material existence.

 

[BULLDOG]

That you equate cancer cells to a zygote is amazing. It's no wonder you have established an arbitrary and capricious definition for humanness. You are not an honest person.

Nothing derogatory about comparing characteristics.

 

[BULLDOG]

I don't believe you are intelligent enough to understand what it means to only believe in a material existence.

The things you believe are wide ranging and often goofy as hell.

 

[ding]

Nothing derogatory about comparing characteristics.

I didn't say it was derogatory. It was incredibly stupid and reveals just how strong your bias is to denying reality because reality makes you uncomfortable.

 

[BULLDOG]

I didn't say it was derogatory. It was incredibly stupid and reveals just how strong your bias is to denying reality because reality makes you uncomfortable.

I didn't know that. Tell me more about what makes me uncomfortable.

 

[ding]

I didn't know that. Tell me more.

You deny that human life begins at conception despite the overwhelming evidence that it does.

That's really all you need to know.

 

[frigidweirdo]

She was MADE (past tense) in His image

I did address this.. that they don't STAY in his image (much or at all?)

So, what does God look like?

Why does God need arms, legs, a mouth, a nose?

 

[BULLDOG]

You deny that human life begins at conception despite the overwhelming evidence that it does.

That's really all you need to know.

But a sentient person is not created at conception, right?

 

[BULLDOG]

So, what does God look like?

Why does God need arms, legs, a mouth, a nose?

To do the HOKEY POKEY. I'm not sure about the nose.

 

[ding]

But a sentient person is not created at conception, right?

All life is aware of its surroundings and responds to its surroundings. It's literally a characteristic of living things. You are creating an artificial and arbitrary definition of life that does not match the scientific definition of life.

All because you can't admit that abortion ends a human life.

 

[BULLDOG]

All life is aware of its surroundings and responds to its surroundings. It's literally a characteristic of living things. You are creating an artificial and arbitrary definition of life that does not match the scientific definition of life.

All because you can't admit that abortion ends a human life.

So you think everything is sentient? Has anybody told you yet today that you're nuts?

All life is aware of its surroundings and responds to its surroundings. It's literally a characteristic of living things. You are creating an artificial and arbitrary definition of life that does not match the scientific definition of life.

All because you can't admit that abortion ends a human life.

So you think everything is sentient? Has anybody told you yet today that you're nuts?

Bacteria are unquestionably alive—they metabolize, reproduce, and respond to stimuli—but they lack any form of consciousness, awareness, or subjective experience. They don’t think, feel, or perceive the world. Their behavior is entirely driven by biochemical processes and genetic programming.
Other examples in the same category:
Plants (like moss or grass): alive, reactive, but not sentient.
Fungi (like mushrooms): biologically active, but no consciousness.
Viruses (debatably alive): even if considered alive, they’re certainly not sentient.