I love it! CHURCH VOWS WAR ON OBAMA 'FIGHT IN STREETS'

[jillian]

I know. Obama and some of you clowns actually think this isn't a big deal amongst Catholics.

Talk about blatant ignorance.

Laughable.

it should be a big deal with ALL religions. If catholics fail to stop this who is next? Fact is ALL should rise up against this blatent violation of The Constitution.

They can't get past the hatred of pro-lifers.

who's "they"?

anti-choicers aren't "pro life", they're pro birth.

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

I'm not asking you to fight against all insurance companies offering that. I'm asking you to support some insurance companies NOT offering it. So that the Church can provide healthcare services that do not breach our core beliefs. Why is that so awful?

Its is not awful. Where we disagree is on a very fine line:

You say St. Joseph's Hospital is a Catholic hospital. Your perspective is that it is therefore wholly accountable to the vatican.

I say St. Joseph's Hosptial is a healthcare institution providing services and products to the community it serves in accordance to the teachings of Jesus. This hospital, because of the charity care it provides enjoys a tax benefit and receives grants, subsidies and services from the government. Its employees as members of the community have a right to access prescriptive contraceptives just like Kaiser( a non faith based system) down the street offers its employees.

I don't know about CG, I'm speaking for myself. If employees at St Joseph want to go to Kaiser for a job, leave the Catholic hospital. Very simple. Many Catholics in all likelihood work at Kaiser 'down the street' and use those benefits.

I'm not saying there's not hypocrisy among the members, just saying that there are way more outlets than Catholic ones, where if condoms are too expensive one place, get them another. Same with the pill, both are really inexpensive in comparison to the possibilities.

Ahh, but what this position is lacking is the competitive nature of recruiting quality healthcare workers. Hospitals are fighting to retain employees and prevent an exodus to 'down the street.' The healthcare industry is swiftly approaching a crisis and is undermanned today in the communities served, never mind when bed occupancy increases because of baby boomer needs. Benefits dollars are pertinent factors when managing nurse attrition.

 

[California Girl]

it should be a big deal with ALL religions. If catholics fail to stop this who is next? Fact is ALL should rise up against this blatent violation of The Constitution.

They can't get past the hatred of pro-lifers.

who's "they"?

anti-choicers aren't "pro life", they're pro birth.

They.... they are those who care more about killing babies than caring for their fellow Americans' First Amendment Rights.

And, the Church - it's 'pro life'.... it does not walk away from children after birth. If a Mom doesn't want the baby, we'll take it and find a family for it. And... we'll pay for it's education, if necessary... and provide healthcare for it.

 

[Annie]

Its is not awful. Where we disagree is on a very fine line:

You say St. Joseph's Hospital is a Catholic hospital. Your perspective is that it is therefore wholly accountable to the vatican.

I say St. Joseph's Hosptial is a healthcare institution providing services and products to the community it serves in accordance to the teachings of Jesus. This hospital, because of the charity care it provides enjoys a tax benefit and receives grants, subsidies and services from the government. Its employees as members of the community have a right to access prescriptive contraceptives just like Kaiser( a non faith based system) down the street offers its employees.

I don't know about CG, I'm speaking for myself. If employees at St Joseph want to go to Kaiser for a job, leave the Catholic hospital. Very simple. Many Catholics in all likelihood work at Kaiser 'down the street' and use those benefits.

I'm not saying there's not hypocrisy among the members, just saying that there are way more outlets than Catholic ones, where if condoms are too expensive one place, get them another. Same with the pill, both are really inexpensive in comparison to the possibilities.

Ahh, but what this position is lacking is the competitive nature of recruiting quality healthcare workers. Hospitals are fighting to retain employees and prevent an exodus to 'down the street.' The healthcare industry is swiftly approaching a crisis and is undermanned today in the communities served, never mind when bed occupancy increases because of baby boomer needs. Benefits dollars are pertinent factors when managing nurse attrition.

Indeed, so shouldn't be an issue for the employees. For the Catholic hospitals? Indeed, an issue. They'll need to cull the number of hospitals, along with looking at the profit/losses-even non-profits need to do so, especially if they are going to quit taking medicare/medicaid.

Catholic hospitals for Catholic patients, staffed by Catholics.

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

I'm not asking you to fight against all insurance companies offering that. I'm asking you to support some insurance companies NOT offering it. So that the Church can provide healthcare services that do not breach our core beliefs. Why is that so awful?

Its is not awful. Where we disagree is on a very fine line:

You say St. Joseph's Hospital is a Catholic hospital. Your perspective is that it is therefore wholly accountable to the vatican.

I say St. Joseph's Hosptial is a healthcare institution providing services and products to the community it serves in accordance to the teachings of Jesus. This hospital, because of the charity care it provides enjoys a tax benefit and receives grants, subsidies and services from the government. Its employees as members of the community have a right to access prescriptive contraceptives just like Kaiser( a non faith based system) down the street offers its employees.

I never mentioned the Vatican. It is a Catholic Hospital and employees who want healthcare coverage that a Catholic employer cannot provide, can go work elsewhere. They have that whole 'choice' thing that you're so passionate about. If you have choice, why can't we? I would never obstruct your rights - even those that I passionately disagree with.... why can you not do likewise for others? What is so hard about giving us a choice? Why trample on our First Amendment Rights just because you happen to agree with abortion? Why can I not agree with abortion?

Why don't you compromise? All we want is to be allowed to provide care for the most needy, and live according to our faith. Surely to (insert optional deity here), that's not too much to ask? Particularly given what we do in this country.

But the fact is, you don't do it alone. Systems spend millions of dollars in educating surgeons from around the world; muslims, buddhists, atheists, jewish and then they might practice in Catholic hospitals. Trust me, Catholic hospitals want their names in the hat when the best and brightest become eligible to practice.

ETA: all Catholic hospitals have a direct tie to the vatican in terms of eligibility status and controversial procedural practices

 

[The T]

I know. Obama and some of you clowns actually think this isn't a big deal amongst Catholics.

Talk about blatant ignorance.

Laughable.

it should be a big deal with ALL religions. If catholics fail to stop this who is next? Fact is ALL should rise up against this blatent violation of The Constitution.

They can't get past the hatred of pro-lifers.

Then they by the same token can't get past thier hatred of thier own liberty. (In effect, this is what they are doing...denying liberty to others will result eventually in them losing thiers with time).

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

I don't know about CG, I'm speaking for myself. If employees at St Joseph want to go to Kaiser for a job, leave the Catholic hospital. Very simple. Many Catholics in all likelihood work at Kaiser 'down the street' and use those benefits.

I'm not saying there's not hypocrisy among the members, just saying that there are way more outlets than Catholic ones, where if condoms are too expensive one place, get them another. Same with the pill, both are really inexpensive in comparison to the possibilities.

Ahh, but what this position is lacking is the competitive nature of recruiting quality healthcare workers. Hospitals are fighting to retain employees and prevent an exodus to 'down the street.' The healthcare industry is swiftly approaching a crisis and is undermanned today in the communities served, never mind when bed occupancy increases because of baby boomer needs. Benefits dollars are pertinent factors when managing nurse attrition.

Indeed, so shouldn't be an issue for the employees. For the Catholic hospitals? Indeed, an issue. They'll need to cull the number of hospitals, along with looking at the profit/losses-even non-profits need to do so, especially if they are going to quit taking medicare/medicaid.

Catholic hospitals for Catholic patients, staffed by Catholics.[/QUOTE]
If it can be done, than I suppose that is what Catholics should do to preserve their faith.

 

[Mustang]

While Obama tries to act like Jesus endorses him, the Church is having NONE OF IT!

Just off Drudge right now:

UPDATE: Catholics leaders criticize birth control order...
Army Tries To Silence Chaplains...
Bishop: 'Hitler and Mussolini' 'Would Love Our School System'...
Bishop: New Govt Mandate Goes Against Catholicism...

It is about time one Church stood up and said "Oh no you don't!" I applaud.

Get this one!

CATHOLIC LEAGUE POISED TO GO TO WAR WITH OBAMA OVER MANDATORY BIRTH CONTROL

Donahue says 70 million of his voters poised to alter Presidential Election

Catholic League Poised To Go To War With Obama Over Mandatory Birth Control Payments « CBS New York

This just made my morning!

What did Jesus say about abortion?

 

[California Girl]

Its is not awful. Where we disagree is on a very fine line:

You say St. Joseph's Hospital is a Catholic hospital. Your perspective is that it is therefore wholly accountable to the vatican.

I say St. Joseph's Hosptial is a healthcare institution providing services and products to the community it serves in accordance to the teachings of Jesus. This hospital, because of the charity care it provides enjoys a tax benefit and receives grants, subsidies and services from the government. Its employees as members of the community have a right to access prescriptive contraceptives just like Kaiser( a non faith based system) down the street offers its employees.

I never mentioned the Vatican. It is a Catholic Hospital and employees who want healthcare coverage that a Catholic employer cannot provide, can go work elsewhere. They have that whole 'choice' thing that you're so passionate about. If you have choice, why can't we? I would never obstruct your rights - even those that I passionately disagree with.... why can you not do likewise for others? What is so hard about giving us a choice? Why trample on our First Amendment Rights just because you happen to agree with abortion? Why can I not agree with abortion?

Why don't you compromise? All we want is to be allowed to provide care for the most needy, and live according to our faith. Surely to (insert optional deity here), that's not too much to ask? Particularly given what we do in this country.

But the fact is, you don't do it alone. Systems spend millions of dollars in educating surgeons from around the world; muslims, buddhists, atheists, jewish and then they might practice in Catholic hospitals. Trust me, Catholic hospitals want their names in the hat when the best and brightest become eligible to practice.

ETA: all Catholic hospitals have a direct tie to the vatican in terms of eligibility status and controversial procedural practices

But that is the government's choice. They choose to support what the Church does. Choice - again.

I know what is required of Catholic Hospitals. And anyone who wants healthcare coverage that includes things that the church cannot provide can 'choose' not to work for the Church. Not hard.

I don't see why the First Amendment is not a big deal to you. It is to me. I support your right to choose. Why can't you support ours?

 

[koshergrl]

I keep saying this...because the progressives don't REALLY support CHOICE. They support tyranny, and death, and oppression.

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

I never mentioned the Vatican. It is a Catholic Hospital and employees who want healthcare coverage that a Catholic employer cannot provide, can go work elsewhere. They have that whole 'choice' thing that you're so passionate about. If you have choice, why can't we? I would never obstruct your rights - even those that I passionately disagree with.... why can you not do likewise for others? What is so hard about giving us a choice? Why trample on our First Amendment Rights just because you happen to agree with abortion? Why can I not agree with abortion?

Why don't you compromise? All we want is to be allowed to provide care for the most needy, and live according to our faith. Surely to (insert optional deity here), that's not too much to ask? Particularly given what we do in this country.

But the fact is, you don't do it alone. Systems spend millions of dollars in educating surgeons from around the world; muslims, buddhists, atheists, jewish and then they might practice in Catholic hospitals. Trust me, Catholic hospitals want their names in the hat when the best and brightest become eligible to practice.

ETA: all Catholic hospitals have a direct tie to the vatican in terms of eligibility status and controversial procedural practices

But that is the government's choice. They choose to support what the Church does. Choice - again.

I know what is required of Catholic Hospitals. And anyone who wants healthcare coverage that includes things that the church cannot provide can 'choose' not to work for the Church. Not hard.

I don't see why the First Amendment is not a big deal to you. It is to me. I support your right to choose. Why can't you support ours?

The bottom line is not enough Catholic nurses, doctors, aides, accountants, marketing vps, ambulance drivers, janitors, parking garage attendents, lab analysts, software programmers, network engineers, neuro surgeons exist to fill all the positions in these hospitals. It simply isn't possible.

So do Catholics want to continue to serve those in need with quality care providers and operational support - or - do they want the talent abandon the mission in order to keep the pill off the benefits offering?

This is the bottom line reality in the hospital presidents world.

The first amendment and preserving the faith are romantic notions when the true grit of a hospital operation is examined.

 

[Annie]

Ahh, but what this position is lacking is the competitive nature of recruiting quality healthcare workers. Hospitals are fighting to retain employees and prevent an exodus to 'down the street.' The healthcare industry is swiftly approaching a crisis and is undermanned today in the communities served, never mind when bed occupancy increases because of baby boomer needs. Benefits dollars are pertinent factors when managing nurse attrition.

Indeed, so shouldn't be an issue for the employees. For the Catholic hospitals? Indeed, an issue. They'll need to cull the number of hospitals, along with looking at the profit/losses-even non-profits need to do so, especially if they are going to quit taking medicare/medicaid.

Catholic hospitals for Catholic patients, staffed by Catholics.[/QUOTE]
If it can be done, than I suppose that is what Catholics should do to preserve their faith.

It can be done, was for nearly 150 years. Remember when no protestant would avail themselves to the dirty papists? Hell, JFK dealt with that.

Nah, we know discrimination and the way to attack it is with our own services, by our own eduction system. Too many 'elitist' were trained in Catholic schools, by Catholic teachers.

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

Indeed, so shouldn't be an issue for the employees. For the Catholic hospitals? Indeed, an issue. They'll need to cull the number of hospitals, along with looking at the profit/losses-even non-profits need to do so, especially if they are going to quit taking medicare/medicaid.

Catholic hospitals for Catholic patients, staffed by Catholics.[/QUOTE]
If it can be done, than I suppose that is what Catholics should do to preserve their faith.

It can be done, was for nearly 150 years. Remember when no protestant would avail themselves to the dirty papists? Hell, JFK dealt with that.

Nah, we know discrimination and the way to attack it is with our own services, by our own eduction system. Too many 'elitist' were trained in Catholic schools, by Catholic teachers.

Does pose another interesting degree of complexity; would this not be discriminatory hiring practices? I honestly don't know what the outcome would be, but I am certain there would be rigorous dialogue.

 

[Uncensored2008]

No, it doesn't "die" it just doesn't live. Much like the sperm that doesn't get into the egg.

That free cheese I told you about behind the fridge, Rati - if you snag it, you won't so much die, as just not live....

 

[California Girl]

But the fact is, you don't do it alone. Systems spend millions of dollars in educating surgeons from around the world; muslims, buddhists, atheists, jewish and then they might practice in Catholic hospitals. Trust me, Catholic hospitals want their names in the hat when the best and brightest become eligible to practice.

ETA: all Catholic hospitals have a direct tie to the vatican in terms of eligibility status and controversial procedural practices

But that is the government's choice. They choose to support what the Church does. Choice - again.

I know what is required of Catholic Hospitals. And anyone who wants healthcare coverage that includes things that the church cannot provide can 'choose' not to work for the Church. Not hard.

I don't see why the First Amendment is not a big deal to you. It is to me. I support your right to choose. Why can't you support ours?

The bottom line is not enough Catholic nurses, doctors, aides, accountants, marketing vps, ambulance drivers, janitors, parking garage attendents, lab analysts, software programmers, network engineers, neuro surgeons exist to fill all the positions in these hospitals. It simply isn't possible.

So do Catholics want to continue to serve those in need with quality care providers and operational support - or - do they want the talent abandon the mission in order to keep the pill off the benefits offering?

This is the bottom line reality in the hospital presidents world.

The first amendment and preserving the faith are romantic notions when the true grit of a hospital operation is examined.

This is waaaay bigger than just 625 hospitals.

It's really quite straightforward. Why not allow insurance companies to provide healthcare that does not include contraception? Why must all providers be dictated regarding areas which are controversial?

You make it overly complicated to justify your view. It isn't. Give the Church the waiver, allow insurance companies to provide insurance that does not include contraception.

Anything else is trampling on our First Amendment Rights.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Those people are free to seek employment elsewhere. No one is forced to work for the Church. Catholic or non-Catholic.

The Catholic Church isn't forced to open secular businesses either.

Yes, we are. We are bound by our duty as Christians to live according to Christ's example. He healed the sick - so do we. He taught the uneducated - so do we. He fed the hungry - so do we. Where He walked, we follow. I know you don't understand it.... but your lack of understanding does not make us wrong. It does make you very narrow in your thought, no more than that.

So you need to accept the laws of the secular world you live in, make the necessary compromises, and proceed.

It's the Church's choice.

btw, LAWS OF THIS NATURE ARE IN PLACE AT THE STATE LEVEL IN 28 STATES. And apparently the Catholic Church has been complying with them at the state level for years. Including under Romneycare.

So, tell us, if the Church has been able to see fit to obey those laws all this time,

what's all this sudden claim of some sort of inviolable doctrine????

 

[Uncensored2008]

who's "they"?

anti-choicers aren't "pro life", they're pro birth.

They are anti-abortion.

You are pro-abortion.

You just refuse to be honest because truth makes you look bad. You support abortion, not choice, abortion.

You are pro-abortion.

 

[California Girl]

Indeed, so shouldn't be an issue for the employees. For the Catholic hospitals? Indeed, an issue. They'll need to cull the number of hospitals, along with looking at the profit/losses-even non-profits need to do so, especially if they are going to quit taking medicare/medicaid.

Catholic hospitals for Catholic patients, staffed by Catholics.[/QUOTE]
If it can be done, than I suppose that is what Catholics should do to preserve their faith.

It can be done, was for nearly 150 years. Remember when no protestant would avail themselves to the dirty papists? Hell, JFK dealt with that.

Nah, we know discrimination and the way to attack it is with our own services, by our own eduction system. Too many 'elitist' were trained in Catholic schools, by Catholic teachers.

So now we're elitist too! Cool.

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

The people whose lives are saved in those 625 hospitals would beg to differ that your church way bigger. And no, I am not complicating anything. I am breaking down reality upon which these decisions come into play.

Good luck. If everybody can have a positive outcome that is great.

 

[California Girl]

who's "they"?

anti-choicers aren't "pro life", they're pro birth.

They are anti-abortion.

You are pro-abortion.

You just refuse to be honest because truth makes you look bad. You support abortion, not choice, abortion.

You are pro-abortion.

No, they're 'pro choice'... for themselves.... not for anyone else. "Rights for me, but not for thee" that is the liberal way.