I don’t understand why republicans are so selective about the definition of socialism

[JoeB131]

Joe, it's really as simple as this, where do you get off demanding the fruits of others labor for free?

Really? I ask the rich people that all the time, why they cheat the people doing the actual work.

Or do you really think Paris Hilton works soooooo hard?

Here, let me straighten this out for you.

This is the person who does the labor.

this is the person getting the fruits of her labor.

Happy to have straightened that out for you... you looked a little dopey.

 

[JoeB131]

No, I was making the point that Trump has done some good things with the VA. Maybe you don't want to acknowledge it because, I dunno, maybe because he is NOT black. See how intellectually dishonest it is to bring race into every argument?

Actually, what Trump is doing with the VA is horrible, he's letting private corporations loot the money that should be going to vets. He had to fire his VA director who opposed this scam.

https://psmag.com/social-justice/privatizing-the-v-a-is-not-cheap

Here's what has actually happened in the four years since the government began sending more veterans to private care: longer waits for appointments and, a new analysis of VA claims data by ProPublica and PolitiFact shows, higher costs for taxpayers.

Since 2014, 1.9 million former service members have received private medical care through a program called Veterans Choice. It was supposed to give veterans a way around long wait times in the VA. But their average waits using the Choice Program were still longer than allowed by law, according to examinations by the VA inspector general and the Government Accountability Office. The watchdogs also found widespread blunders, such as booking a veteran in Idaho with a doctor in New York and telling a Florida veteran to see a specialist in California. Once, the VA referred a veteran to the Choice Program to see a urologist, but instead he got an appointment with a neurologist.

 

[JoeB131]

If you think that having possibility to own small private grocery store at corner is capitalism by default, you really don't know what capitalism, or socialism is.

This is the same grocery store, before and after Chavez. Just look how happy he is today.

You leave out the part where we've inflicted 20 years of sanctions on Venezuela and supported two coup attempts. But never mind. Socialism BAAAAAAAD.

 

[SweetTea]

The successful are successful in keeping the unsuccessful that way

I consider my family successful. We aren't billionaires, but we are comfortable. What is it that I am doing to keep others unsuccessful? Would it be the business I may start soon that hires people? Would it be the large amount of taxes we pay? Would it be paying for a house keeper? Wait, I know, it is that we have money invested in the stock market and may make some money if we are lucky. That is hurting others in some way, right?

Look, it all boils down to envy. We all know it. Even you know it. Come to terms with it and instead of just wanting to take what you didn't make, go out and earn it. The US still provides you that opportunity...for now.

 

[SweetTea]

No, I was making the point that Trump has done some good things with the VA. Maybe you don't want to acknowledge it because, I dunno, maybe because he is NOT black. See how intellectually dishonest it is to bring race into every argument?

Actually, what Trump is doing with the VA is horrible, he's letting private corporations loot the money that should be going to vets. He had to fire his VA director who opposed this scam.

https://psmag.com/social-justice/privatizing-the-v-a-is-not-cheap

Here's what has actually happened in the four years since the government began sending more veterans to private care: longer waits for appointments and, a new analysis of VA claims data by ProPublica and PolitiFact shows, higher costs for taxpayers.

Since 2014, 1.9 million former service members have received private medical care through a program called Veterans Choice. It was supposed to give veterans a way around long wait times in the VA. But their average waits using the Choice Program were still longer than allowed by law, according to examinations by the VA inspector general and the Government Accountability Office. The watchdogs also found widespread blunders, such as booking a veteran in Idaho with a doctor in New York and telling a Florida veteran to see a specialist in California. Once, the VA referred a veteran to the Choice Program to see a urologist, but instead he got an appointment with a neurologist.

You can't possibly be trying to make the argument that the government run VA is better than a privately run system, can you? I know you are all for the big daddy government, but you need to step away from the crazy media for a minute and put on your thinking cap. My dad would switch healthcare providers with me in a skinny minute if he could and I have private health insurance.

 

[JoeB131]

You can't possibly be trying to make the argument that the government run VA is better than a privately run system, can you? I know you are all for the big daddy government, but you need to step away from the crazy media for a minute and put on your thinking cap. My dad would switch healthcare providers with me in a skinny minute if he could and I have private health insurance.

1) **** you.
2) I had my life and finances put through the ******* meat grinder fighting with Cigna for TWO YEARS to get payment for procedures to repair my knee. It eventually ended with myself and other people with health issues being "downsized" .

I'd take waiting at a VA clinic any day of the week, but since this injury wasn't related to my service, it wasn't an option.

The reason why the VA is so overwealmed is that no one ever thought we've be fighting an 19 year war.

 

[SweetTea]

You can't possibly be trying to make the argument that the government run VA is better than a privately run system, can you? I know you are all for the big daddy government, but you need to step away from the crazy media for a minute and put on your thinking cap. My dad would switch healthcare providers with me in a skinny minute if he could and I have private health insurance.

1) **** you.
2) I had my life and finances put through the ******* meat grinder fighting with Cigna for TWO YEARS to get payment for procedures to repair my knee. It eventually ended with myself and other people with health issues being "downsized" .

I'd take waiting at a VA clinic any day of the week, but since this injury wasn't related to my service, it wasn't an option.

The reason why the VA is so overwealmed is that no one ever thought we've be fighting an 19 year war.

You are too ignorant for further banter. You and 3 other people in this country would choose the VA over private health insurance is given the choice.

 

[JoeB131]

You are too ignorant for further banter. You and 3 other people in this country would choose the VA over private health insurance is given the choice.

Yet Bernie is promoting Medicare for All, and he's beating Trump in most polls. How is that?

 

[Ame®icano]

Lol okay. Here it is:


n

1. a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole

I get it now! You mean like it's gonna be in heaven. That explains the whole thing!

Right I get that you believe me to think that, naively, socialism is some utopian, flawless idea because it makes for dismissing me easier, but that’s not the case. Obviously a socialist state can fail. Others,
However, succeed.

Name one single socialist state that has succeeded. Name one. Just one.

In regards to social democratic states which is the type of socialism I support, it’s the Scandinavian model. What you people don’t seem to grasp is that certain forms of socialism accommodate for a capitalistic economy. Bernie’s platform specifically, has nothing to with the state controlling the means of production which refers to a SPECIFIC type of socialism.

That's a weasel way of saying that they aren't really socialist.

All previous socialists were doing it wrong. Real socialism haven't been tried yet, and this "Bernie's socialism" is real thing. Confiscating wealth, property, ending free speech, re-education cams for dissidents, that will all be OK when Bernie does it, because he's "democratic socialist".

 

[Ame®icano]

Joe, it's really as simple as this, where do you get off demanding the fruits of others labor for free?

Really? I ask the rich people that all the time, why they cheat the people doing the actual work.

Or do you really think Paris Hilton works soooooo hard?

Here, let me straighten this out for you.

View attachment 306393
This is the person who does the labor.

View attachment 306394
this is the person getting the fruits of her labor.

Happy to have straightened that out for you... you looked a little dopey.

Your second image is misleading. Person on it is posing for photo on the beach, and obviously acting happy (she's multi-tasking), to earn her money. Her labor is exploited by photographer and magazine that you will use for jerking it off to, which is pretty much the same thing you're doing on this message board.

 

[Ame®icano]

If you think that having possibility to own small private grocery store at corner is capitalism by default, you really don't know what capitalism, or socialism is.

This is the same grocery store, before and after Chavez. Just look how happy he is today.

You leave out the part where we've inflicted 20 years of sanctions on Venezuela and supported two coup attempts. But never mind. Socialism BAAAAAAAD.

Misery in Venezuela is caused by socialism, it would happen with or without sanctions. They're part of OPEC, they can sell their oil to whoever they want to. Blackouts, water cutoffs, food shortages, inflation, are all caused by socialism. Isn't it interesting that people of Venezuela are running from their own country to get to "their oppressor", United States.

 

[danielpalos]

To them, it’s a completely leftwing ideology when in reality it’s been part of the framework of the country since the beginning. The founders had socialist ideas after all. They basically were leftists. It’s also stupid to say that communism and socialism are the same thing when in reality communism is simply an example of socialism. Socialism itself is a very broad term that can’t be defined simply.

Also, isn’t Trump the bigger socialist than Obama? His bailout to farmers was twice as big as Obama’s bailout. Are republicans going to pretend that isn’t socialism?

James Madison:

“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.”

Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, SNAP, Obama phones, welfare, public housing, infrastructure spending.....

Do you need me to go on?

Nothing socialist about the founding fathers. They were nearly the exact, and complete opposite.

Providing for the general welfare is not "benevolence".

 

[flacaltenn]

However, I think it’s important to put these videos in perspective. We buy into a certain narrative and it evolves over time.

Making the mistake of DEFENDING "radical socialists" ONCE or TWICE might be excusable, but that moron has NEVER LEARNED...

A lot like you actually... Just has a bunch of wimpy excuses for the horrendous and murderous outcomes after all those "democratic socialist" movements crashed and burned...

And just like you -- Bernie is CLUELESS as to how capitalism or free markets work and how HUGE BLOATED GOVT does not....

I like Bernie.. I support 1/2 of all his positions.. Just NONE of the ones that have to do with MATH or ECONOMICS....

Wouldn't know how to support you on ANY issues, because I don't think you operate on principles. You just react to political power considerations...

 

[Andylusion]

It's because of those blacks and Mexicans you claim to love.

lol excuses as always......I live in west Los angeles upper middle class, the city does attract many homeless, mentally ill and drug addicts from all over the US due to its programs catered to those groups.....that been said I see on daily basis lot of crazies, mentally ill, drug addicts that beg for money everywhere.....I can safely say 90% of them are whites and the rest are African Americans, it's a miracle to find a Latino begging for money.

Working-class whites are the biggest beneficiaries of federal poverty-reduction programs, even though blacks and Hispanics have substantially higher rates of poverty, according to a new study to be released Thursday by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

Government assistance and tax credits lifted 6.2 million working-class whites out of poverty in 2014, more than any other racial or ethnic demographic. Half of all working-age adults without college degrees lifted out of poverty by safety-net programs are white; nearly a quarter are black and a fifth are Hispanic.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-government-safety-net-working-class-whites/

This is a white nation...70% of the population is white...THANK GOD!
You have to think per capita like smart people do.
Let me cast some factual data over the top of the bullshit you pulled from your ass.
Surge in Latino homeless population ‘a whole new phenomenon’ for Los Angeles
Surge in Latino homeless population 'a whole new phenomenon' for Los Angeles

I worry about what I see in my town most homeless, addicts and beggars are white not one latino is begging or stealing. Come down here and see for yourself.

They are collecting welfare. That's the bottom line.

Millions of whites are. And unlike you, I support helping those that cant afford putting food on the table for their families. You are a racists jackass, who would rather see people dying out of hunger...bit wont have a problem with a fraud billionaire bragging about not paying his taxes.

I don't care what color they are.

If they can't afford putting food on the table, there is a wonderful thing to do.... get a job, and start working.

Anyone who works, can afford to put food on the table. It is ridiculous to claim otherwise.

Two people working minimum wage, is $32,000 a year. That places them in the top 1% of wage earners on the face of the Earth. You are telling me that people who earn $1 a day, can afford to eat, but the top 1% of the planet are not able to? You are a liar.

They can. And you supporting lazy people, only harms lazy people. Giving people money, when they are not willing to work, allows them to stay poor.

The only way people advance in life, is if they put in the hard work, and hard effort, to move forward in life. You allowing them to avoid the tough choices in life that allow them to advance, in effect you are enabling them to be lazy.

You are giving a drunk a drink, a heroin addict a shot. You are harming people. Not helping them.

 

[Andylusion]

No, I was making the point that Trump has done some good things with the VA. Maybe you don't want to acknowledge it because, I dunno, maybe because he is NOT black. See how intellectually dishonest it is to bring race into every argument?

Actually, what Trump is doing with the VA is horrible, he's letting private corporations loot the money that should be going to vets. He had to fire his VA director who opposed this scam.

https://psmag.com/social-justice/privatizing-the-v-a-is-not-cheap

Here's what has actually happened in the four years since the government began sending more veterans to private care: longer waits for appointments and, a new analysis of VA claims data by ProPublica and PolitiFact shows, higher costs for taxpayers.

Since 2014, 1.9 million former service members have received private medical care through a program called Veterans Choice. It was supposed to give veterans a way around long wait times in the VA. But their average waits using the Choice Program were still longer than allowed by law, according to examinations by the VA inspector general and the Government Accountability Office. The watchdogs also found widespread blunders, such as booking a veteran in Idaho with a doctor in New York and telling a Florida veteran to see a specialist in California. Once, the VA referred a veteran to the Choice Program to see a urologist, but instead he got an appointment with a neurologist.

The VA is garbage, and always has been. It was before Trump, and it was before Obama, and it was before Bush.

The VA has always sucked, because the VA is a socialized system. Socialism sucks.

 

[22lcidw]

Joe, it's really as simple as this, where do you get off demanding the fruits of others labor for free?

Really? I ask the rich people that all the time, why they cheat the people doing the actual work.

Or do you really think Paris Hilton works soooooo hard?

Here, let me straighten this out for you.

View attachment 306393
This is the person who does the labor.

View attachment 306394
this is the person getting the fruits of her labor.

Happy to have straightened that out for you... you looked a little dopey.

Now that is a good and competent comparison. however the odds favor Paris being a Prog. not saying she is, but the richer ones speak the right words.

 

[Billy000]

However, I think it’s important to put these videos in perspective. We buy into a certain narrative and it evolves over time.

Making the mistake of DEFENDING "radical socialists" ONCE or TWICE might be excusable, but that moron has NEVER LEARNED...

A lot like you actually... Just has a bunch of wimpy excuses for the horrendous and murderous outcomes after all those "democratic socialist" movements crashed and burned...

And just like you -- Bernie is CLUELESS as to how capitalism or free markets work and how HUGE BLOATED GOVT does not....

I like Bernie.. I support 1/2 of all his positions.. Just NONE of the ones that have to do with MATH or ECONOMICS....

Wouldn't know how to support you on ANY issues, because I don't think you operate on principles. You just react to political power considerations...

Lol good god. You do know the governments mentioned besides the Nordic countries were not democratic socialist states right? You have no concept of what the word means.

 

[Ame®icano]

lol excuses as always......I live in west Los angeles upper middle class, the city does attract many homeless, mentally ill and drug addicts from all over the US due to its programs catered to those groups.....that been said I see on daily basis lot of crazies, mentally ill, drug addicts that beg for money everywhere.....I can safely say 90% of them are whites and the rest are African Americans, it's a miracle to find a Latino begging for money.

Working-class whites are the biggest beneficiaries of federal poverty-reduction programs, even though blacks and Hispanics have substantially higher rates of poverty, according to a new study to be released Thursday by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

Government assistance and tax credits lifted 6.2 million working-class whites out of poverty in 2014, more than any other racial or ethnic demographic. Half of all working-age adults without college degrees lifted out of poverty by safety-net programs are white; nearly a quarter are black and a fifth are Hispanic.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-government-safety-net-working-class-whites/

This is a white nation...70% of the population is white...THANK GOD!
You have to think per capita like smart people do.
Let me cast some factual data over the top of the bullshit you pulled from your ass.
Surge in Latino homeless population ‘a whole new phenomenon’ for Los Angeles
Surge in Latino homeless population 'a whole new phenomenon' for Los Angeles

I worry about what I see in my town most homeless, addicts and beggars are white not one latino is begging or stealing. Come down here and see for yourself.

They are collecting welfare. That's the bottom line.

Millions of whites are. And unlike you, I support helping those that cant afford putting food on the table for their families. You are a racists jackass, who would rather see people dying out of hunger...bit wont have a problem with a fraud billionaire bragging about not paying his taxes.

I don't care what color they are.

If they can't afford putting food on the table, there is a wonderful thing to do.... get a job, and start working.

Anyone who works, can afford to put food on the table. It is ridiculous to claim otherwise.

Two people working minimum wage, is $32,000 a year. That places them in the top 1% of wage earners on the face of the Earth. You are telling me that people who earn $1 a day, can afford to eat, but the top 1% of the planet are not able to? You are a liar.

They can. And you supporting lazy people, only harms lazy people. Giving people money, when they are not willing to work, allows them to stay poor.

The only way people advance in life, is if they put in the hard work, and hard effort, to move forward in life. You allowing them to avoid the tough choices in life that allow them to advance, in effect you are enabling them to be lazy.

You are giving a drunk a drink, a heroin addict a shot. You are harming people. Not helping them.

The we wonder why world hunger hasn't been solved despite years of charity and billions in aid payments.

 

[Andylusion]

This is a white nation...70% of the population is white...THANK GOD!
You have to think per capita like smart people do.
Let me cast some factual data over the top of the bullshit you pulled from your ass.
Surge in Latino homeless population ‘a whole new phenomenon’ for Los Angeles
Surge in Latino homeless population 'a whole new phenomenon' for Los Angeles

I worry about what I see in my town most homeless, addicts and beggars are white not one latino is begging or stealing. Come down here and see for yourself.

They are collecting welfare. That's the bottom line.

Millions of whites are. And unlike you, I support helping those that cant afford putting food on the table for their families. You are a racists jackass, who would rather see people dying out of hunger...bit wont have a problem with a fraud billionaire bragging about not paying his taxes.

I don't care what color they are.

If they can't afford putting food on the table, there is a wonderful thing to do.... get a job, and start working.

Anyone who works, can afford to put food on the table. It is ridiculous to claim otherwise.

Two people working minimum wage, is $32,000 a year. That places them in the top 1% of wage earners on the face of the Earth. You are telling me that people who earn $1 a day, can afford to eat, but the top 1% of the planet are not able to? You are a liar.

They can. And you supporting lazy people, only harms lazy people. Giving people money, when they are not willing to work, allows them to stay poor.

The only way people advance in life, is if they put in the hard work, and hard effort, to move forward in life. You allowing them to avoid the tough choices in life that allow them to advance, in effect you are enabling them to be lazy.

You are giving a drunk a drink, a heroin addict a shot. You are harming people. Not helping them.

The we wonder why world hunger hasn't been solved despite years of charity and billions in aid payments.

We know why world hunger hasn't been solved. Lack of capitalism in other countries.

There's a reason why Soviet Russia, still had capitalist farms, that produced 1/3rd of all the food in the nation, despite being dwarfed by the massive Soviet run mega-farms. There's a reason why socialist China, and North Korea had mass starvation, even though prior to, they were net exporters of food.

In fact, Venezuela in the 1990s, was a net exporter of food. They produced more food in the country, than the all the people of the country ate, and exported food all over south American.

Now people are standing in line for 8 hours, to get half a cup of rice, and then killing and cooking up the family dog, in order to live.

Socialism. That's why hunger will never be solved.

 

[Ame®icano]

I worry about what I see in my town most homeless, addicts and beggars are white not one latino is begging or stealing. Come down here and see for yourself.

They are collecting welfare. That's the bottom line.

Millions of whites are. And unlike you, I support helping those that cant afford putting food on the table for their families. You are a racists jackass, who would rather see people dying out of hunger...bit wont have a problem with a fraud billionaire bragging about not paying his taxes.

I don't care what color they are.

If they can't afford putting food on the table, there is a wonderful thing to do.... get a job, and start working.

Anyone who works, can afford to put food on the table. It is ridiculous to claim otherwise.

Two people working minimum wage, is $32,000 a year. That places them in the top 1% of wage earners on the face of the Earth. You are telling me that people who earn $1 a day, can afford to eat, but the top 1% of the planet are not able to? You are a liar.

They can. And you supporting lazy people, only harms lazy people. Giving people money, when they are not willing to work, allows them to stay poor.

The only way people advance in life, is if they put in the hard work, and hard effort, to move forward in life. You allowing them to avoid the tough choices in life that allow them to advance, in effect you are enabling them to be lazy.

You are giving a drunk a drink, a heroin addict a shot. You are harming people. Not helping them.

The we wonder why world hunger hasn't been solved despite years of charity and billions in aid payments.

We know why world hunger hasn't been solved. Lack of capitalism in other countries.

There's a reason why Soviet Russia, still had capitalist farms, that produced 1/3rd of all the food in the nation, despite being dwarfed by the massive Soviet run mega-farms. There's a reason why socialist China, and North Korea had mass starvation, even though prior to, they were net exporters of food.

In fact, Venezuela in the 1990s, was a net exporter of food. They produced more food in the country, than the all the people of the country ate, and exported food all over south American.

Now people are standing in line for 8 hours, to get half a cup of rice, and then killing and cooking up the family dog, in order to live.

Socialism. That's why hunger will never be solved.

TBH, I was commenting on photo I posted.