i can see this turning ugly

[Quantum Windbag]

"Julea Ward had reached the end of the Master's program at Eastern Michigan University, which calls for students to take actual counseling cases. She was confronted with the task of counseling a homosexual concerning a same-gender relationship. Ward asked to opt out of the case, based on her religious beliefs, and then found herself before a panel of educators.



"The school said, 'Well, you have to.' And Julea said, 'Well, that would violate my fundamental religious beliefs to do that' -- and they said, 'Sorry, you're dismissed from our program,'" accounts Alliance Defense Fund (ADF) attorney Jeremy Tedesco. "And so the real fundamental question here is, can Christians maintain adherence to their core beliefs and still get a degree from a public school?"

Grad student takes stand for faith, denied degree (OneNewsNow.com)

Now we see a case where the school is probably right. this is arguably a requirement of graduation, and she refused to comply with that requirement by refusing to counsel someone assigned to her. After she gets into private practice she will have the luxury of picking and choosing patients, but during schooling and training she takes what pops up.

I would agree but hedge that with this: what if she was a med student and asked to opt out of doing a required abortion?

Immie

I believe federal law already addresses that issue. Also, unless she is going to be a surgeon or an OB-GYN she would not be required to preform an abortion.

 

[Madeline]

You know what? The hippies are committing the same sins they rebelled against 50 years ago. Their parents morays were shoved down their throat and they threw them out. Ultimately, these kids are going to do the same thing and rebel against their tyrannical parents and teachers who are forcing their beliefs on the kids.

You libs have less than 10 years of influence on this society before it all falls away like a sloughed sheet of dead flesh and disease

o yes they are so tyranical for wanted gays treated equal and not having a counselor tell them they have a curable mental disease that can be cured by jesus and if its not cured they will burn in hell

When did that happen?

Oh, that's right. It hasn't. It's all in blu's head.

No, it is not "all in blu's head". It is accepted scientific fact, as I posted before. The fact that your bigotry towards gays makes you wish it were different does not alter that fact....and Allie, I hope no one you love is gay. I just cannot imagine the cruelty you'd heap on them, if the inflexibility and bigotry of your posts on this thread are indicative of your real feelings.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I would assume that there are counselors out there that disagree with a lot of what their clients do. That does not mean they do not counsel the correctly.

according the afadavit filed, the girl promoted the idea of converting gays back to being straight, which is against the ACA & schools guidelines. that is not allowed

If she did promote that viewpoint, which she did not*, then the ACA would be justified in refusing to license her. The school, however, is not justified in forcing her to adhere to a standard that does not affect her academic standing.

*A student claims she relayed an interest in conversion therapy, this is the same as promoting conversion therapy.

 

[AllieBaba]

o yes they are so tyranical for wanted gays treated equal and not having a counselor tell them they have a curable mental disease that can be cured by jesus and if its not cured they will burn in hell

When did that happen?

Oh, that's right. It hasn't. It's all in blu's head.

No, it is not "all in blu's head". It is accepted scientific fact, as I posted before. The fact that your bigotry towards gays makes you wish it were different does not alter that fact....and Allie, I hope no one you love is gay. I just cannot imagine the cruelty you'd heap on them, if the inflexibility and bigotry of your posts on this thread are indicative of your real feelings.

Liar. You didn't prove it, I'm not bigoted at all, and it isn't accepted fact.

Try again.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

o yes they are so tyranical for wanted gays treated equal and not having a counselor tell them they have a curable mental disease that can be cured by jesus and if its not cured they will burn in hell

When did that happen?

Oh, that's right. It hasn't. It's all in blu's head.

No, it is not "all in blu's head". It is accepted scientific fact, as I posted before. The fact that your bigotry towards gays makes you wish it were different does not alter that fact....and Allie, I hope no one you love is gay. I just cannot imagine the cruelty you'd heap on them, if the inflexibility and bigotry of your posts on this thread are indicative of your real feelings.

Actually, it is only current medical opinion, not scientific fact. If we ever find that homosexuality is caused by something specific, we might also find a "cure" for it. Which is why I prefer the theory that it is a choice, and that it does not need to be cured.

 

[Big Fitz]

o yes they are so tyranical for wanted gays treated equal and not having a counselor tell them they have a curable mental disease that can be cured by jesus and if its not cured they will burn in hell

When did that happen?

Oh, that's right. It hasn't. It's all in blu's head.

No, it is not "all in blu's head". It is accepted scientific fact, as I posted before. The fact that your bigotry towards gays makes you wish it were different does not alter that fact....and Allie, I hope no one you love is gay. I just cannot imagine the cruelty you'd heap on them, if the inflexibility and bigotry of your posts on this thread are indicative of your real feelings.

you have links to actual incidents yes? My google fu seems to be unable to find such fevered fantasies.

My point is that the hippies hegemony on pop culture, 20 years past due to fail, is about to b
ecause too many of them are dying off and/or people the Xers and Millenials are sick of being dictated to by their parents desires due to pure volume of that generation. What the boomers have tried to create cannot last because it is based on ideology that is hostile to the laws of economics and patterns of sociology.

I didn't say anything about homosexuality, I'm talking ethics, ideology and world view. The former hippies are about to reap the whirlwind of the parents curse on a generational level the same way their parents and grandparents had to suffer through the boomers specifically the hippies shitting on everything they held as good and decent.

nothing you can do to stop it, for centuries of history say this is to pass.

 

[Madeline]

When did that happen?

Oh, that's right. It hasn't. It's all in blu's head.

No, it is not "all in blu's head". It is accepted scientific fact, as I posted before. The fact that your bigotry towards gays makes you wish it were different does not alter that fact....and Allie, I hope no one you love is gay. I just cannot imagine the cruelty you'd heap on them, if the inflexibility and bigotry of your posts on this thread are indicative of your real feelings.

you have links to actual incidents yes? My google fu seems to be unable to find such fevered fantasies.

My point is that the hippies hegemony on pop culture, 20 years past due to fail, is about to b
ecause too many of them are dying off and/or people the Xers and Millenials are sick of being dictated to by their parents desires due to pure volume of that generation. What the boomers have tried to create cannot last because it is based on ideology that is hostile to the laws of economics and patterns of sociology.

I didn't say anything about homosexuality, I'm talking ethics, ideology and world view. The former hippies are about to reap the whirlwind of the parents curse on a generational level the same way their parents and grandparents had to suffer through the boomers specifically the hippies shitting on everything they held as good and decent.

nothing you can do to stop it, for centuries of history say this is to pass.

Mommy issues or Daddy issues, Big Fitz? Before you trash the hippies, look around and ask yourself...would you really be happier living in a sexually repressed culture that valued conformity and supported bigotry of every stripe?

If you find fault with the world, make a change. Stop blaming others for the problems and do what we did..move your ass to create change.

 

[geauxtohell]

Ga. School Forces Christian Student to Alter Beliefs to Graduate | Christianpost.com

I don't really know how all of this works, so i think I will stay out of it for now

Why do I suspect that there is a little more to this than the "christianpost" is reporting.

My money is on her regarding her chosen job as a professional counselor as an excuse to proselytize to people about her religion.

I doubt this merely boils down to her personal beliefs.

 

[Madeline]

I dun understand how any of you anti-gay folk can hold the POVs you do if you have ever loved someone who was GLBT. And Allie, you can neg all you like. Hopefully it'll relieve some of the anger you feel in a harmless way...if so, go for it.

 

[AllieBaba]

No, it is not "all in blu's head". It is accepted scientific fact, as I posted before. The fact that your bigotry towards gays makes you wish it were different does not alter that fact....and Allie, I hope no one you love is gay. I just cannot imagine the cruelty you'd heap on them, if the inflexibility and bigotry of your posts on this thread are indicative of your real feelings.

you have links to actual incidents yes? My google fu seems to be unable to find such fevered fantasies.

My point is that the hippies hegemony on pop culture, 20 years past due to fail, is about to b
ecause too many of them are dying off and/or people the Xers and Millenials are sick of being dictated to by their parents desires due to pure volume of that generation. What the boomers have tried to create cannot last because it is based on ideology that is hostile to the laws of economics and patterns of sociology.

I didn't say anything about homosexuality, I'm talking ethics, ideology and world view. The former hippies are about to reap the whirlwind of the parents curse on a generational level the same way their parents and grandparents had to suffer through the boomers specifically the hippies shitting on everything they held as good and decent.

nothing you can do to stop it, for centuries of history say this is to pass.

Mommy issues or Daddy issues, Big Fitz? Before you trash the hippies, look around and ask yourself...would you really be happier living in a sexually repressed culture that valued conformity and supported bigotry of every stripe?

If you find fault with the world, make a change. Stop blaming others for the problems and do what we did..move your ass to create change.

When you can't blind them with facts. obfuscate and insult.

Well down, twit!

 

[Charles_Main]

I dun understand how any of you anti-gay folk can hold the POVs you do if you have ever loved someone who was GLBT. And Allie, you can neg all you like. Hopefully it'll relieve some of the anger you feel in a harmless way...if so, go for it.

As I read the study it says the Gene does not mean they will gay for sure. It simply makes them more likely to be. Which leaves room for the possibility that some people with the gene may in fact choose, possibly subconsciously to not be gay even though they have the Gene. I said I always believed Genes played a part in behavior, I personally do not think they completely control it. They simply influence it.

 

[AllieBaba]

I dun understand how any of you anti-gay folk can hold the POVs you do if you have ever loved someone who was GLBT. And Allie, you can neg all you like. Hopefully it'll relieve some of the anger you feel in a harmless way...if so, go for it.

You poor moron. If you'll recall, you decided to neg rep me. With a laughable comment about worrying about me.

Once you embark down that path and gain my attention, I'll be sure to neg rep every stupid post I'm able to neg rep. Until I lose interest.

So thank you, I will continue to neg rep you. I will also continue to point out your lies.

In this post, the lie I would like to point out is the one where you state I'm anti-gay. Please provide evidence of this or join blu and splats in the liar's corner.

 

[Madeline]

Maybe so, Allie. As for facts, you've been supplied them over and over in this thread but none of them is acceptable to you. Because you wish that being gay were a mental illness, sin, choice, whatever and you refuse to consider/be educated as to the realities, you write angry and hateful things about those of us who know better.

Check yourself, lady. You seem to be coming apart over this, and I for one wonder why. Why is the issue of homosexuality so burning to one who is (presumably) straight?

 

[AllieBaba]

Liar.
No facts at all to support the crap you've said.

 

[AllieBaba]

But that's to be expected. You have a much lower standard in regard to truth and fact, and what constitutes those things.

 

[Madeline]

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual is the bible of the American Psychiatric Society. It DOES NOT define homosexuality as a mental illness or as maladaptive in any way. Others have pointed you to a code of conduct for counselors, and we have pointed out that the degree this student is after would qualify her to counsel public school students....an environment in which her unwillingness to tolerate diversity would be dysfunctional, harm kids, and expose the school system to liability for that harm. All these facts are rejected by you, solely because of your religious beliefs.

Which one of us is being dishonest here, Allie?

You wish the world we live in punished people for being gay, and want this lady to get her degree so that in some small way, she can carry out those wishes. I find this desire of yours replusive and irrational, and I applaud the fact that it is frustrated. This lady is free to believe anything she likes...what she is NOT free to do is enter a helping profession with an avowed intention to harm some future clients.

 

[AllieBaba]

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual is the bible of the American Psychiatric Society. It DOES NOT define homosexuality as a mental illness or as maladaptive in any way. Others have pointed you to a code of conduct for counselors, and we have pointed out that the degree this student is after would qualify her to counsel public school students....an environment in which her unwillingness to tolerate diversity would be dysfunctional, harm kids, and expose the school system to liability for that harm. All these facts are rejected by you, solely because of your religious beliefs.

Which one of us is being dishonest here, Allie?

You wish the world we live in punished people for being gay, and want this lady to get her degree so that in some small way, she can carry out those wishes. I find this desire of yours replusive and irrational, and I applaud the fact that it is frustrated. This lady is free to believe anything she likes...what she is NOT free to do is enter a helping profession with an avowed intention to harm some future clients.

Well, it appears to me that you're the one being dishonest here, Maddie.

#1 (for the second? third? time?) I never said homosexuality was a mental illness.
#2 There's no evidence of an unwillingness to tolerate anything. She does not agree with current counseling methods for gays based on her religion, so she opted to not treat a child identified as gay. Quite the opposite of inflicting anything upon anyone.
#3 Please prove I want gay people punished. That's new, and I'd like you to back that one up. I know you won't. You just throw these lies around willy nilly, all progressive slime do. It's what defines you. Lying sacks of shit with zero honor and zero comprehension of what constitutes ethical behavior, freedom, or human rights.
#4 Again, please show me where this woman avowed her intention to harm anyone.

Each of those lies are spectacular pieces of work on their own. Taken together they are indicative of a mentally ill, wildly unstable lunatic.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Ga. School Forces Christian Student to Alter Beliefs to Graduate | Christianpost.com

I don't really know how all of this works, so i think I will stay out of it for now

Why do I suspect that there is a little more to this than the "christianpost" is reporting.

My money is on her regarding her chosen job as a professional counselor as an excuse to proselytize to people about her religion.

I doubt this merely boils down to her personal beliefs.

And I bet you think she is close minded and bigoted.

 

[AllieBaba]

And if in order to be "accepting" we as human service professionals (hello, I'm one. Guess what? I'll be getting a BS in it, too. I study the APA guidelines on a daily basis dipshit) encourage children in their sexual endeavors, then I think that's a sign that we're a fairly perverted society. She was within her rights to declare a conflict, and it absolutely should never have affected her obtaining the degree which she had earned. AS IT IS NOT A REQUIREMENT FOR SAID DEGREE TO DO SO.

Besides which, if this is a public school, regardless of what the requirements of the degree are, if they are requiring that students take a stand against their religion in order to obtain the degree, they are violating their students civil rights, and they are in direct opposition to the Constitution, which means they are ineligible for federal funding.

You fucking fascist piece of shit. Join the others in your fucking dark and dank corner.

 

[Madeline]

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual is the bible of the American Psychiatric Society. It DOES NOT define homosexuality as a mental illness or as maladaptive in any way. Others have pointed you to a code of conduct for counselors, and we have pointed out that the degree this student is after would qualify her to counsel public school students....an environment in which her unwillingness to tolerate diversity would be dysfunctional, harm kids, and expose the school system to liability for that harm. All these facts are rejected by you, solely because of your religious beliefs.

Which one of us is being dishonest here, Allie?

You wish the world we live in punished people for being gay, and want this lady to get her degree so that in some small way, she can carry out those wishes. I find this desire of yours replusive and irrational, and I applaud the fact that it is frustrated. This lady is free to believe anything she likes...what she is NOT free to do is enter a helping profession with an avowed intention to harm some future clients.

Well, it appears to me that you're the one being dishonest here, Maddie.

#1 (for the second? third? time?) I never said homosexuality was a mental illness.
#2 There's no evidence of an unwillingness to tolerate anything. She does not agree with current counseling methods for gays based on her religion, so she opted to not treat a child identified as gay. Quite the opposite of inflicting anything upon anyone.
#3 Please prove I want gay people punished. That's new, and I'd like you to back that one up. I know you won't. You just throw these lies around willy nilly, all progressive slime do. It's what defines you. Lying sacks of shit with zero honor and zero comprehension of what constitutes ethical behavior, freedom, or human rights.
#4 Again, please show me where this woman avowed her intention to harm anyone.

Each of those lies are spectacular pieces of work on their own. Taken together they are indicative of a mentally ill, wildly unstable lunatic.

I realize that you never claimed homosexuality is a mental illness, Allie. The reason I keep pointing you to the DMS is that the APA has determined (for decades now) that homosexuality is as normative as heterosexuality. This is pertinent not to you personally, perhaps, but it sure is to the lady who sought to enter a profession guided by the DMS.

Refusing to treat a child identified as gay does not insulate others from harm. What about someone like me, who has close gay friends? Or a child who is uncertain of his or her sexual identity? Or the effect on a child rejected by her for care? The position this lady is taking is untenable and unworkable in the career she had sought to enter.

I infer you'd like to see gay people treated as if their sexuality was aberant. I can think of little else more punishing.

The woman's intent to harm is demonstrable from her decision to enter a profession she could never fully adhere to, and her decision to sue the school when her outbursts of anti-gay rhetoric caused her instructors alarm.

Insulting me or anyone else with whom you disagree does not advance your POV or elevate the dialogue, but it does make you come across as someone very, very angry that gays are beginning to feel they have the same right to safety and dignity in their lives as you....and I wonder why that is, Allie.